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Mrs Whiggins

By Mrs Whiggins
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I'd just like to point out that neither myself nor any of my fellow nurses, fellow advanced nurse practitioners, and other healthcare providers ever swore an oath that we would lay down our lives for

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Welp, it finally happened. I snapped in public today. I went into work for a bit this morning because I’m trying to figure out the safest way to host physicians we are recruiting given our CV-19 sit

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I don't really know what to say anymore tbh. What happened last night is hard to put into words for anyone who hasn't worked in a hospital healthcare setting. Just unreal. Everyone is getting fucked.

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mdmost

mdmost 43004

Posted
Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

 

So are HIPAA protections not a thing any more?

I'd imagine the announcement was made so if folks had come in contact with Mr. Port Authority previously, they would self-quarantine or go get tested. 

Edited by mdmost
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GhostOfTomJoad

GhostOfTomJoad 9327

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I'm trying to imagine any other administration that wouldn't be holding daily press briefings from the WH in an attempt to inform & calm a population that is growing more & more alarmed by the hour. But Trump Co doesn't want to answer any tough questions from the media so instead we get ridiculously stupid rage tweets from dotard while he sends staff to Fox news or the Sunday talk shows.

This is the textbook example of what not to do in the face of a pending crisis.

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13050

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1 hour ago, Lobo said:

Real Estate development/investing is largely about finance, whether some want to admit it or not.  Finance, and I never liked this next subject, is largely about maths.  

How can this guy pretend to be so rich and successful in a field so dependent on finance/math and not be able to understand the difference on mortality rates?  

Somebody just show him the stat on how many americans get the flu ever year (and then go back and count the ones that get it 2-3x/year).  So add up and call that "total American cases of Flu" for him (he won't be able to add up the numbers).  Then divide that 27,000 into it or whatever halfway number you wanna take there and tell him that's the mortality rate.  Then either show him what that rate means in terms of total number of Covid-19 cases, meaning if that same flu-like mortality holds for this virus, then Mr. President---it means we have this many more cases out there we don't know about.  Or, what'll likely happen is he sees that the mortality rate is much higher for this virus than the flu and that's why so many of us are puzzled by his continued response.  

I'm serious, some fucking doctor or health official---get your ass on FoxNews under the guise of talking about being prepared at home with supplies or some shit.  And then just do the math real quick on the show with a little posterboard.  Either we have way more cases than we don't know about based on his flu mortality talking point, or that rate is much higher for this virus.  What is readily apparently, no matter which side you fall on, is that according to basic arithmetic you can show on TV easily---it's not both only here in low numbers and only has the mortality rate of the flu.  But the same fucking people over and over again saying the same anti-Trump shit questioning his leadership and ethics and mental state and racism/nationalism and all this other shit.  Just use his tweet numbers in a quick 45-second exercise on FoxNews or have bloomberg buy an add where you just cut and paste Trump's own data into a smart phone calculator on TV and it quickly shows either we are woefully under-tested for the virus right now or gonna lose a lot more people to it. 

So fucking simple, quit attacking Trump's leadership or grasp of science/critical thinking (it just makes him and his voters dig their heels in, which is usually funny-but we need action now for lives are at stake), and just ask why he can't use his own numbers to do basic division.  Laugh all you want at his voters, but they'll at least see in concrete actuality---that he doesn't understand the severity of this.  Nope, instead we'll just focus on why Pence is dumb and why his border security claims are false.  Most of the country doesn't give a shit about that stuff.  The President tells us that this is a lesser deal than the flu with fewer people suffering from it.  Use his math.  

While I believe your idea has merit, I also believe you are overestimating math skills among the population. Anecdotal case in point is that I would be ~+200 richer in small bills if I wasn't fundamentally honest when my change is returned. Kid you not, I paid $20.10 on a bill of $18.10 recently and received a five dollar bill in change. Happens too frequently even when the cash register is showing the amount. It isn't just theft that has stores going cash free, it's the math. Big change from when I was working in college and we had to run percentages in our heads for sales tax, price reductions, etc.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105152

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7 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Just a heads up, any kind of disinfectant wipe is about to be very hard to come by.  

Wow, thanks for the newsflash.  Disinfectant wipes, hand sanitizer, and bleach are all already being rationed by most stores.

That's going to be secondary/tertiary news in short order.  The infection rate is working on going exponential here (not that we'll know it, because no testing).

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Wow, thanks for the newsflash.  Disinfectant wipes, hand sanitizer, and bleach are all already being rationed by most stores.

That's going to be secondary/tertiary news in short order.  The infection rate is working on going exponential here (not that we'll know it, because no testing).

I’m on the manufacturer side (as part of my horizontal integration with then dildo salesman job) and let me tell you, the whole industry is in panic mode. 

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13050

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Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I’m on the manufacturer side (as part of my horizontal integration with then dildo salesman job) and let me tell you, the whole industry is in panic mode. 

Does that affect baby wipes, too? Our family doesn't need those, but that would cause some serious panic among parents, I'm sure.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105152

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Just now, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

That's completely normal and the type of response you should anticipate during a crisis.

- @GRHorn

GR and his ilk will continue to rationalize, argue, and ignore what's happening the whole fucking way down.

"Breaking in half just makes the ship easier to manage.  I don't know why you people are being so critical."

Titanic-sinking-1280x720.jpg

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conVINCEd

conVINCEd 21469

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4 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I’m on the manufacturer side (as part of my horizontal integration with then dildo salesman job) and let me tell you, the whole industry is in panic mode. 

They’re panicking because they are the producers of what will soon be the most valuable commodity in the country?  It’s party time for the producers of disinfectants,, bottled water, and toilet paper.  The bullet folks will join the party in a few weeks.

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Goredho

Goredho 17408

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8 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

No shortage of dildos tho

thank god we are not going to be simultaneously hit with the dildopocalypse.

Although technically a public health emergency with Trump as President really is the dildopocalypse.

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13050

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Our whole city is out of sanitizer, and back when I bought some before the panic hit, I didn't want to hoard so I bought one bottle. Then realized I didn't have a travel size for the car. So, made one of my own with a travel bottle but if we run out, I discovered some sunburn gel in the medicine cabinet that is antiseptic and I'm thinking I'm good for the virus and harmful rays!

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Longhorn_Fan68

Longhorn_Fan68 33872

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4 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

This this offended the Sensitive Sally's in the other thread, I'll leave this here:

Seeing Louie Gohmert's name warms my cold, dead heart.

giphy.gif?cid=790b7611b7fb885eb907f8c3ad

seeing most of those names, especially Gaetz's after pulling that bullshit gas mask stunt, makes me feel like karma is a real thing

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105152

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1 minute ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

seeing most of those names, especially Gaetz's after pulling that bullshit gas mask stunt, makes me feel like karma is a real thing

I mean, this really is the functional equivalent of the flat earth dude launching a rocket and pancaking back into the earth.

They spent weeks talking about how this is all a librulmedia hoax designed to bring down Trump...and now they're freaking out and self-quarantining.  These fuckers would deny that gravity exists, jump off a cliff, and as they plummet to their doom, finally start to panic a split second before impact and wonder why the gov't didn't issue them parachutes.  Fuck 'em.

giphy.gif

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105152

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2 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Brave dentist warrior Paul Gosar battling the virus in his fevered dreams.

 

That pussy would piss his fucking pants if someone unsheathed a Swiss Army knife aggressively within 50 yards of him.  "Die gloriously in battle" my ass.  If a battle happened, he'd die with urine-soaked pants, killed by a shot to the back as he ran away.

These guys are the biggest fucking cowards of our lifetime.

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Francisco 2.0

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https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/09/politics/coronavirus-airlines-white-house-tensions/index.html

 

Quote

The US aviation industry and the Trump administration are in a pitched battle over the response to the coronavirus pandemic, three sources familiar with recent calls between officials from several government agencies and US airlines have told CNN.

In a series of contentious conversations, agency officials and aviation executives have clashed over the administration's demand that airlines collect new kinds of data from passengers to help officials track potential virus carriers.

 

Quote

Airlines say they can't meet that demand right away -- a claim some administration officials say they don't believe, according to several sources who tell CNN the calls have deteriorated so badly that agency officials have issued threats, spat expletives and accused airline executives of lying. It is an "epic battle," said one source familiar with the talks.

On one call, an administration official pointed to potential fines if the airlines didn't comply, according to two sources. The Federal Register, where proposed rules are published, laid out the new requirements for added data collection and listed penalties that include fines as high as $500,000 as well as jail time of up to a year.

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention officials have even threatened recommending that the administration try to ground planes in the US if they can't get the passenger data, according to one source.

 

Quote

The administration officials' vitriol has left airline officials in a state of "shock and disbelief," one source said. Government officials have displayed "a lot of ignorance about what is possible," the source said. Others familiar with the talks contend the airlines seem to be acting unreasonably by not providing the data more quickly.

Another factor adding to the friction is that the administration is considering an advisory discouraging Americans from commercial air travel. Airlines oppose this because of the body blow it would deal their industry, according to four sources familiar with the discussions.

The battle over data is raging as the administration is coming under fire for failing to move quickly or competently enough to protect Americans from a virus that has already killed thousands worldwide and is beginning to hit the US, with more than 500 people infected and 22 dead.

 

Spoiler

The anger and recrimination are fueled by the fact that for both the White House and the airlines, CoVID19 -- the coronavirus that has infected about 108,000 people worldwide and killed around 3,500 in 93 countries -- poses a profound threat.

The international aviation industry could face losses north of $100 billion if the virus isn't contained soon, with revenues and ridership already plummeting.

In the White House, President Donald Trump has seen stock markets sink, a development that could undermine a central plank of his re-election campaign: that his presidency has delivered a thriving economy.

On Friday, the White House signaled it could offer an olive branch and take steps to ease the financial strain on US airlines by deferring taxes. Airlines, concerned about complicated privacy issues the data collection may pose, have tried to meet the administration halfway, proposing to develop an app and website for data collection.

For now, though, tensions remain high as the two sides remain far apart as both struggle to deal with the pandemic and the airlines brace for the fees and other punitive measures the White House might implement starting March 14.

"If the focus is doing it exactly the way the administration wants, it will be a long negotiation," said Washington Rep. Rick Larsen, the Democratic chair of the House aviation subcommittee. The "airlines don't have all the information the CDC wants," Larsen said.

The standoff over data goes back years, said one source, who added that the CDC seems to be using the coronavirus outbreak to force airlines to agree to its demands. The broader debate is about what role airlines should play in determining if their passengers have been exposed to the disease.

This newest surge of friction began a few weeks ago, after the Presidential proclamation in late January that essentially banned any foreign national from entering the US if they had been to China within the previous two weeks.

In a series of calls, the administration told airlines they had to comply with a directive to ask travelers if they had been to China within the past 48 hours. CDC had initially wanted passengers to answer 22 fields of information but narrowed that to five questions about passengers' contact info. They are particularly interested in recent visitors to China, Italy and South Korea.

Aviation executives said they don't have the technology to do that digitally, explaining it would take six months to make the necessary technical fixes. They could, however, use paper, they said. An official from the Centers for Disease Control accused the airlines of lying, according to two of the sources, and of not stepping up to the plate, leaving the industry executives reeling in shock.

The blowups between administration officials and the airlines have continued, occurring more recently over the requirement that airlines to collect more passenger and crew data than they normally would, including email addresses, phone numbers and addresses to help track potential coronavirus carriers.

The demand is a difficult one for airlines for technical reasons as well as privacy issues, particularly in Europe.

But during conversations about the new data requirements, CDC officials made a point of telling the airlines about $250,000 fines they would have to pay if they do not start complying by mid-March. The Federal Register listing that sets out the new requirements also notes that penalties could include criminal charges and up to a year in jail.

Individual airlines often had security or IT officials on the calls to explain technical issues as needed, but the calls got so heated at times that airline representatives themselves piped up.

"There were several calls between the airlines and the US government about this new data collection process, which was initiated in response to the novel coronavirus outbreak," said a CDC spokesperson. "We understand that any new process can be challenging to implement quickly, which is why the rule is currently open for public comment. Airlines have been encouraged to provide feedback through that public comment process."

The calls between airline executives and the agencies are set to pick up before the March 14th deadline, though no date has been set.

Airlines for America told CNN that the airlines "appreciate the collaborative dialogue with the US government to further our shared goal of protecting the safety and well-being of all travelers, which is -- and will always be -- the top priority of US carriers. We look forward to continuing to coordinate and work collaboratively with the top leaders in the Administration and across federal agencies to assess the best next steps."

Before the coronavirus outbreak, airlines were expected to share information they had in their records. The new change means they must collect the information the administration seeks. One airline official told CNN they now feel under the gun to compile the data because the administration could ask for it at any point.

Another industry official familiar with the calls said, "what may seem simple in a world of apps and other things in which it seems like everyone has information about you, it is not simple."

This industry official says it took the US aviation industry two years to meet post-9/11 requirements, which also involved data collection.

Airlines are concerned that the Federal Register gives no clear end date on the data collection and worry that the US government could continue forcing them to collect it "for other purposes."

"It seems they want us to do this for forever and we are pushing back," the first source familiar said. The airlines -- particularly their lawyers -- are worried about what Customs and Border Protection officials will do with the information.

They are also concerned about lawsuits from other countries, particularly given European Union privacy restrictions. "The industry isn't interested in creating a system that would get them in trouble with EU privacy rules," the industry official said, adding that's been a problem for airlines before.

Airlines asked the agency officials if the government would back them in the event of lawsuits and were told the administration would offer no support, according to the first source familiar. This source added that one US official told aviation executives their privacy concerns were "bullshit" because no country would push back on the collection of information given the threat CoVID19 poses.

The White House was aware of the rising tensions on these calls when it invited aviation CEOs to meet with Trump and Vice President Mike Pence Wednesday last week in an attempt to resolve the data sharing issues, according to third person familiar with events.

The White House meeting itself was not contentious, according to people familiar with it.

Airlines for America offered Trump a counter proposal for collecting data, telling him about an app and a website they are developing that would help the CDC get information more quickly, the group's president said after the meeting.

Nicholas Calio, the president and CEO of Airlines for America, said the association felt there were "better ways to trace the passengers coming in" from places with high rates of the coronavirus.

"We've contracted to have a mobile app and a website developed that everybody would have to fill in that would go directly to the CDC with that information and we're moving forward with that," he said.

The airline executives also used the opportunity to ask Trump and other White House officials not to publicly discourage Americans from taking flights, saying their businesses would be at risk if the government begins warning against commercial air travel.

Airlines are already reeling, canceling planned routes due to declining demand and projecting steep losses, with the International Air Transport Association saying the outbreak could cost the industry as much as $113 billion worldwide.

Despite the potential economic blow, Trump dismissed the idea of a bailout after the meeting last week. "Don't ask that question please, because they haven't asked [for] that," Trump told a reporter. "I don't want you to give them any ideas."

But White House officials are considering deferring taxes for industries hurt by the coronavirus, including aviation, two people briefed on the discussions said.

White House economic adviser Larry Kudlow said Friday the "measures that would be targeted toward individuals or small businesses or perhaps some industrial sectors. That's on the table... we are in the discussion and planning phase."

CNN's Geneva Sands, Nikki Carvajal, Kevin Liptak and Jacqueline Howard contributed to this report

 

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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9939

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5 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/09/politics/coronavirus-airlines-white-house-tensions/index.html

 

 

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

The anger and recrimination are fueled by the fact that for both the White House and the airlines, CoVID19 -- the coronavirus that has infected about 108,000 people worldwide and killed around 3,500 in 93 countries -- poses a profound threat.

The international aviation industry could face losses north of $100 billion if the virus isn't contained soon, with revenues and ridership already plummeting.

In the White House, President Donald Trump has seen stock markets sink, a development that could undermine a central plank of his re-election campaign: that his presidency has delivered a thriving economy.

On Friday, the White House signaled it could offer an olive branch and take steps to ease the financial strain on US airlines by deferring taxes. Airlines, concerned about complicated privacy issues the data collection may pose, have tried to meet the administration halfway, proposing to develop an app and website for data collection.

For now, though, tensions remain high as the two sides remain far apart as both struggle to deal with the pandemic and the airlines brace for the fees and other punitive measures the White House might implement starting March 14.

"If the focus is doing it exactly the way the administration wants, it will be a long negotiation," said Washington Rep. Rick Larsen, the Democratic chair of the House aviation subcommittee. The "airlines don't have all the information the CDC wants," Larsen said.

The standoff over data goes back years, said one source, who added that the CDC seems to be using the coronavirus outbreak to force airlines to agree to its demands. The broader debate is about what role airlines should play in determining if their passengers have been exposed to the disease.

This newest surge of friction began a few weeks ago, after the Presidential proclamation in late January that essentially banned any foreign national from entering the US if they had been to China within the previous two weeks.

In a series of calls, the administration told airlines they had to comply with a directive to ask travelers if they had been to China within the past 48 hours. CDC had initially wanted passengers to answer 22 fields of information but narrowed that to five questions about passengers' contact info. They are particularly interested in recent visitors to China, Italy and South Korea.

Aviation executives said they don't have the technology to do that digitally, explaining it would take six months to make the necessary technical fixes. They could, however, use paper, they said. An official from the Centers for Disease Control accused the airlines of lying, according to two of the sources, and of not stepping up to the plate, leaving the industry executives reeling in shock.

The blowups between administration officials and the airlines have continued, occurring more recently over the requirement that airlines to collect more passenger and crew data than they normally would, including email addresses, phone numbers and addresses to help track potential coronavirus carriers.

The demand is a difficult one for airlines for technical reasons as well as privacy issues, particularly in Europe.

But during conversations about the new data requirements, CDC officials made a point of telling the airlines about $250,000 fines they would have to pay if they do not start complying by mid-March. The Federal Register listing that sets out the new requirements also notes that penalties could include criminal charges and up to a year in jail.

Individual airlines often had security or IT officials on the calls to explain technical issues as needed, but the calls got so heated at times that airline representatives themselves piped up.

"There were several calls between the airlines and the US government about this new data collection process, which was initiated in response to the novel coronavirus outbreak," said a CDC spokesperson. "We understand that any new process can be challenging to implement quickly, which is why the rule is currently open for public comment. Airlines have been encouraged to provide feedback through that public comment process."

The calls between airline executives and the agencies are set to pick up before the March 14th deadline, though no date has been set.

Airlines for America told CNN that the airlines "appreciate the collaborative dialogue with the US government to further our shared goal of protecting the safety and well-being of all travelers, which is -- and will always be -- the top priority of US carriers. We look forward to continuing to coordinate and work collaboratively with the top leaders in the Administration and across federal agencies to assess the best next steps."

Before the coronavirus outbreak, airlines were expected to share information they had in their records. The new change means they must collect the information the administration seeks. One airline official told CNN they now feel under the gun to compile the data because the administration could ask for it at any point.

Another industry official familiar with the calls said, "what may seem simple in a world of apps and other things in which it seems like everyone has information about you, it is not simple."

This industry official says it took the US aviation industry two years to meet post-9/11 requirements, which also involved data collection.

Airlines are concerned that the Federal Register gives no clear end date on the data collection and worry that the US government could continue forcing them to collect it "for other purposes."

"It seems they want us to do this for forever and we are pushing back," the first source familiar said. The airlines -- particularly their lawyers -- are worried about what Customs and Border Protection officials will do with the information.

They are also concerned about lawsuits from other countries, particularly given European Union privacy restrictions. "The industry isn't interested in creating a system that would get them in trouble with EU privacy rules," the industry official said, adding that's been a problem for airlines before.

Airlines asked the agency officials if the government would back them in the event of lawsuits and were told the administration would offer no support, according to the first source familiar. This source added that one US official told aviation executives their privacy concerns were "bullshit" because no country would push back on the collection of information given the threat CoVID19 poses.

The White House was aware of the rising tensions on these calls when it invited aviation CEOs to meet with Trump and Vice President Mike Pence Wednesday last week in an attempt to resolve the data sharing issues, according to third person familiar with events.

The White House meeting itself was not contentious, according to people familiar with it.

Airlines for America offered Trump a counter proposal for collecting data, telling him about an app and a website they are developing that would help the CDC get information more quickly, the group's president said after the meeting.

Nicholas Calio, the president and CEO of Airlines for America, said the association felt there were "better ways to trace the passengers coming in" from places with high rates of the coronavirus.

"We've contracted to have a mobile app and a website developed that everybody would have to fill in that would go directly to the CDC with that information and we're moving forward with that," he said.

The airline executives also used the opportunity to ask Trump and other White House officials not to publicly discourage Americans from taking flights, saying their businesses would be at risk if the government begins warning against commercial air travel.

Airlines are already reeling, canceling planned routes due to declining demand and projecting steep losses, with the International Air Transport Association saying the outbreak could cost the industry as much as $113 billion worldwide.

Despite the potential economic blow, Trump dismissed the idea of a bailout after the meeting last week. "Don't ask that question please, because they haven't asked [for] that," Trump told a reporter. "I don't want you to give them any ideas."

But White House officials are considering deferring taxes for industries hurt by the coronavirus, including aviation, two people briefed on the discussions said.

White House economic adviser Larry Kudlow said Friday the "measures that would be targeted toward individuals or small businesses or perhaps some industrial sectors. That's on the table... we are in the discussion and planning phase."

CNN's Geneva Sands, Nikki Carvajal, Kevin Liptak and Jacqueline Howard contributed to this report

 

The airlines will capitulate. They are going to need some corporate socialism. 

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Longhornfan1024

Longhornfan1024 1707

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Posted
3 hours ago, 4th&Five said:

Heckuva job, Pencie!

 

Can someone clarify something for me?  He keeps on talking about how they did a really good job and were on top of things because they stopped travel to and from certain parts of the world.  I'm aware that the CDC has labeled certain countries, like China, level 2 or 3 for risk, which acts as advice not to travel to those destinations.  But I'm not aware of an actual ban of travel by Americans to any countries because of COVID-19 concerns.  Has an actual ban been put into place or is this Trump just being his usual stupid, lying self?

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Tuco

Tuco 5076

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Posted
6 minutes ago, ruitxn said:

Surgeon General,  The President is in excellent health.       OK

Yes, the risk of dying from the coronavirus is low for the "average" American.  But forgive me if I am worried about those in the 95% percentile.  Jesus fucking Christ. 

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bolverk

bolverk 29683

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Posted
7 minutes ago, Longhornfan1024 said:

Can someone clarify something for me?  He keeps on talking about how they did a really good job and were on top of things because they stopped travel to and from certain parts of the world.  I'm aware that the CDC has labeled certain countries, like China, level 2 or 3 for risk, which acts as advice not to travel to those destinations.  But I'm not aware of an actual ban of travel by Americans to any countries because of COVID-19 concerns.  Has an actual ban been put into place or is this Trump just being his usual stupid, lying self?

The State Department has them on the Level 4: Do Not Travel list, but I don't think that, alone, constitutes a travel ban per se. If you sort the list and look at the other Level 4 nations, I'm sure you could make your way to some of them. Interestingly, Cuba, for example, is not listed, so as the list's name implies, I think this is just an advisory.

Now, coming back from China might be a different thing.

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