CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13555]

“I’m hearing widespread stories from physicians across the country and they are all saying: ‘We have these stories that we think are important to get out, but we are being told by our hospital systems that we are not allowed to speak to the press, and if we do so there will be extreme consequences,” she said.

"Many say they get daily emails urging them not to talk to the media under any circumstances. “The public needs to hear these stories and other physicians need to hear them to be warned against what’s coming,” Mehta said. “It’s so important that everyone understands how bad this is going to get.”

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-31/hospitals-tell-doctors-they-ll-be-fired-if-they-talk-to-press

[jimmyjazz 45604]

They need to talk.  Hospitals can't afford to fire their docs & nurses.  Being sent home would be a personal blessing, anyway, even though most would probably want to stay on the job out of a sense of duty.

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

18 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

He had been missing rent since December.  

He sounds like he had problems well before the area was shut down then.

 

It is in a nursing home in my community. Two of the residents have passed away. We live about a mile and a half from the facility and are near an EMS route. Every time I hear a siren now instead of thinking 'oh dear, auto accident,' now I'm wondering if another elderly resident is being taken to the hospital.

Our traffic is sparse, but once the mayor issued a SIP, some of the wealthy hard core GOP moms in the burbs decided that was ridiculous and got called out by their neighbors for having pool parties. The dissonance of them buying out the local HEB of cartfuls of product and then inviting their children's friends over is head scratching.

[Jiggy-Z 3432]

18 minutes ago, Tuco said:

...or who think they have COVID-19, but aren't eligible to receive a test, either because they can't document an exposure to a confirmed case and/or they aren't in an at-risk group. 

As far as the mortality rate, I doubt it is above 2% with proper medical care.  On the Princess Diamond, everyone got tested, the mortality rate is currently at 1.5% (11/712), and that is likely with a demographic skewed towards older, but not infirmed.  But the big variable is "with proper medical care." Who knows what that rate is when you have people in an overcrowded hospital ward without enough ventilators or at home without anything. 

...but using total passengers, the Diamond Princess had an actual infection rate of 696/3618=19.23% of its population.  I think we (USA) are looking at a long term (18 month) infection rate of 2 to 3 times that of DP's 19.23% which of course would include all of the asymptomatic cases etc., which if true would dampen the effect from the assumed skewed DP cruiser demographic.

I have been following the Michael Osterholm podcast interviews on various pod casts sites and from the CIDRAP website and he has been pretty consistent in believing the long term infection rate will be 60-70%.  Which is why I believe the upper end of the numbers given yesterday (240,000 dead/USA) are shorter term numbers with longer term dead numbers moving more toward 400-600 thousand in the USA, absent some kind of effective treatment or vaccine.

[DixonHur 11236]

23 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

They need to talk.  Hospitals can't afford to fire their docs & nurses.  Being sent home would be a personal blessing, anyway, even though most would probably want to stay on the job out of a sense of duty.

Exactly.  I think a mass walkout by healthcare professionals might get some attention right now.

[BigHorn'13 3357]

9 hours ago, F250 said:

 

I saw this article earlier.

 

 

What in the Mississippi fuck is going on here? Not only fucking our country over but its own citizens are advocating that this fucking continue?

Please, someone explain it better to me than "Honduras and Myanmar will be in better position to help us when/if the SECOND wave comes back around" and "deploying unused resources to areas that actually need them" What about right now? Is it really that short sighted to say that if all these hospitals are running out of the very supplies we're sending right out the door, we should probably, you know, stop doing that?

Amid all the chaos and life altering decisions being made, this seems like the easiest call to make. What am I missing?

[cactusflinthead 27595]

13 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

“I’m hearing widespread stories from physicians across the country and they are all saying: ‘We have these stories that we think are important to get out, but we are being told by our hospital systems that we are not allowed to speak to the press, and if we do so there will be extreme consequences,” she said.

"Many say they get daily emails urging them not to talk to the media under any circumstances. “The public needs to hear these stories and other physicians need to hear them to be warned against what’s coming,” Mehta said. “It’s so important that everyone understands how bad this is going to get.”

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-31/hospitals-tell-doctors-they-ll-be-fired-if-they-talk-to-press

Administration can suck it. If they want to go in there and haul trash instead of firing off emails that's fine. But, trying to squelch talking to the press isn't going to work. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that there are going to be some lawsuits about not having PPE and shitty practices forced on the docs, nurses, and support staff. 

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

3 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Exactly.  I think a mass walkout by healthcare professionals might get some attention right now.

Where is Alex Azar, the pharma attorney? He can use the Public Health Service Act to make certain the truth is told.

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

4 minutes ago, BigHorn'13 said:

What am I missing?

Without any evidence whatsoever, I would say you are missing the money. It's ALWAYS the money with goons.

[hayden_horn 11360]

2 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Without any evidence whatsoever, I would say you are missing the money. It's ALWAYS the money with goons.

 

[Tuco 5076]

39 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I don't think they tested everyone on Diamond Princess, but they got well over half.  This article says "over 3,000 tests", with some individuals being tested more than once.

Some takeaways:

-- 18% who tested positive showed no symptoms

-- because of the high # of elderly people on the ship, they expect more developed symptoms than would ordinarily happen in the general population

-- case fatality rate (CFR) of 1.1%, well lower than estimated by WHO (3.8%), incorporating data from China

 

Diamond Princess

The tracking site I've been using (WorldoMeters) is saying it's up to 11 deaths, with one of those being in the last few days.  15 are still listed as "serious/critical".  To me the take away is 1-2% with proper medical support for that demographic.  I don't know if anyone has tried to normalize that based on a more typical age demographic.  

16 minutes ago, Jiggy-Z said:

I have been following the Michael Osterholm podcast interviews on various pod casts sites and from the CIDRAP website and he has been pretty consistent in believing the long term infection rate will be 60-70%.  Which is why I believe the upper end of the numbers given yesterday (240,000 dead/USA) are shorter term numbers with longer term dead numbers moving more toward 400-600 thousand in the USA, absent some kind of effective treatment or vaccine.

I think 60-70% is certainly reasonable. But, like you hint at, if it's 10% (still 35M Americans) in the next 6 months, and the next 55% after the next six months, and if an effective treatment can be developed in the next six months, that makes a huge difference on how many ultimately die from this. 

[WhatTheBuck 28720]

44 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

“I’m hearing widespread stories from physicians across the country and they are all saying: ‘We have these stories that we think are important to get out, but we are being told by our hospital systems that we are not allowed to speak to the press, and if we do so there will be extreme consequences,” she said.

"Many say they get daily emails urging them not to talk to the media under any circumstances. “The public needs to hear these stories and other physicians need to hear them to be warned against what’s coming,” Mehta said. “It’s so important that everyone understands how bad this is going to get.”

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-31/hospitals-tell-doctors-they-ll-be-fired-if-they-talk-to-press

Daily emails? Share those with the press too. 'If I get fired for keeping the public informed, this is who's responsible. I'll find another job. Good luck to them.'

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

This is probably not the time or place for this conversation and I have NO idea how those things work but I cannot help but feel that in areas of American institutions the mission is subverted:

In Universities, the administration should serve the faculty (whose mission is to educate and also inform through research)

In Hospitals/Medical Offices, the administration should serve the practitioners (whose mission is to treat, inform, and care for the patients)

Everything is out of whack and the folks out there who have been trying to get people to pay attention about this probably need to stop banging on the drum and start banging on those administrator's heads. (or like @WhatTheBuck says and share the emails)

[Pancho 44535]

[FondrenRoad 4378]

1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

I don't think they tested everyone on Diamond Princess, but they got well over half.  This article says "over 3,000 tests", with some individuals being tested more than once.

Some takeaways:

-- 18% who tested positive showed no symptoms

-- because of the high # of elderly people on the ship, they expect more developed symptoms than would ordinarily happen in the general population

-- case fatality rate (CFR) of 1.1%, well lower than estimated by WHO (3.8%), incorporating data from China

 

Diamond Princess

As far as Diamond Princess CFR, couldn't early detection have played a role in that?  Most of them had care ready at the instant symptom one popped up. 

[4th&Five 41462]

 

[cactusflinthead 27595]

We got word the same fucking day. 

Was he golfing or at one of his rallies? 

Don't matter. He had screwed it up the moment he scrambled the pandemic response unit. 

Shittiest leader ever. 

Fuck his fake empathy. He still doesn't give a damn. 

[Biff Tannen 45512]

24 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

Fuck his fake empathy.

Did I miss this somewhere?

[berlinerbaer 670]

17 hours ago, burntorangebongos said:

Governor Inslee looks like a fucking genius for going 2 weeks earlier than the rest and they haven't had a uptick surge like other regions. He seems like an intelligent and effective leader.  Every state is different but he seems to have handled it right from the jump. Good on him and his peeps.

He should run for president. He should throw his hat back into the ring.

[Francisco 2.0 32347]

Fuck HOA's, example #3912

 

 

 

[4th&Five 41462]

 

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

DeSantis has really monkeyed this up.

[kevwun 15675]

Florida is going to experience a great deal of pain because DeSantis is a Trump sycophant and refused to initiate more strict measures.

[Pancho 44535]

This interview on CNN with Pence is just...Pence should be sent to jail.  Here's a paraphrased question...

Wolf: You said NY got off to a bad start, but didn't the USA as a whole get off to a bad start?

Pence: Well, China...

[Chooky 13303]

Inslee's reward for being two weeks ahead of the curve and displaying decisive leadership was to be labeled a "snake" on national television by the president.

10 days after Inslee had already begun doing everything the rest of the country is trying to do now the president said this to the nation:

"I like this stuff.  I really get it.  People are really, really surprised I understand this stuff.  Everyone of these doctors here said, 'How do you know so much about all of this?'  Maybe I just have a natural ability.  But we have plenty of tests.  Anybody who wants a test can get a test.  The tests are beautiful, really.  They're perfect."

[Nice Guy Eddie 13418]

these governors have the opportunity to save lives, and instead they're looking at the "safest" communities within their state and applying rules appropriate for those communities state-wide.

Of course, the most evil one is the guy from MS. He's overriding local rules to let people and business do what they want, but only suggesting they follow CDC guidelines.

[Biff Tannen 45512]

7 minutes ago, Pancho said:

This interview on CNN with Pence is just...Pence should be sent to jail.  Here's a paraphrased question...

Wolf: You said NY got off to a bad start, but didn't the USA as a whole get off to a bad start?

Pence: Well, China...

I can't watch them anymore.  Every time they start to speak this is what happens to me.

[kevwun 15675]

1 minute ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

these governors have the opportunity to save lives, and instead they're looking at the "safest" communities within their state and applying rules appropriate for those communities state-wide.

Of course, the most evil one is the guy from MS. He's overriding local rules to let people and business do what they want, but only suggesting they follow CDC guidelines.

They are scared of stepping out of line with Trump.  This is all directly his fault.  There are a lot of Republican governors who will trade the lives of their citizens in return for not pissing Trump off.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13418]

Bloomberg report about a new US intelligence report that China (& others) have mislead the international community about the spread of COVID from the start:  https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-01/china-concealed-extent-of-virus-outbreak-u-s-intelligence-says?srnd=premium

 

[4th&Five 41462]

Sounds familiar 

but also fuck anyone that got on a cruise ship with this going on. 

[WBT 20441]

I wish the media would stop spreading Chinese propaganda.  The latest is the reporting that NY cases have surpassed Wuhan.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13418]

Just now, kevwun said:

They are scared of stepping out of line with Trump.  This is all directly his fault.  There are a lot of Republican governors who will trade the lives of their citizens in return for not pissing Trump off.

Yes, this is outcome of 3+ years of Trump that any Republican knows they have to be careful of angering Trump.  That includes any orders that might have the appearance of a criticism of Trump. Hence why you don't really see any GOP governors suggesting right that the feds are still making mistakes. Of course there are also the reports that GOP governors are getting what they want over Dem governors so the GOP ones are further encouraged to stay in line.

[DixonHur 11236]

Just now, 4th&Five said:

Sounds familiar 

but also fuck anyone that got on a cruise ship with this going on. 

How the fuck long were they on that boat?  Last I checked there aren't a ton of wild penguins in South Florida...or the Northern Hemisphere for that matter

[4th&Five 41462]

1 minute ago, DixonHur said:

How the fuck long were they on that boat?  Last I checked there aren't a ton of wild penguins in South Florida...or the Northern Hemisphere for that matter

Left Buenos Aires on 3/8. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13418]

1 minute ago, 4th&Five said:

Sounds familiar 

but also fuck anyone that got on a cruise ship with this going on. 

Americans have to be allowed in the country. I don't see how a judge wouldn't force Florida to allow Americans to get back on shore. Now that doesn't mean we shouldn't send them to military bases for quarantine and treatment but I don't see how we can legally prevent Americans from coming home.

[Brisketexan 104744]

2 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Bloomberg report about a new US intelligence report that China (& others) have mislead the international community about the spread of COVID from the start:  https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-01/china-concealed-extent-of-virus-outbreak-u-s-intelligence-says?srnd=premium

 

Oh, when this is all buttoned up, and we've contained the threat (may be a matter of years, by the way).....there needs to be a reckoning for China.  Between 1) continuing to allow wet markets, which have been a starting point for this type of deadly virus TWICE in the past 20 years, 2) not being open and honest with data and information to assist others in preventing and responding to the threat, and 3) being tied up in WAY too many supply chains, including strategic materials like medical PPE and equipment......shit needs to change.

Of course, private enterprise will still seek the lowest cost option that yields the best quarterly report, so without strategic governmental intervention (by multiple governments, in coordinated fashion), nothing will change.

[Biff Tannen 45512]

7 minutes ago, kevwun said:

They are scared of stepping out of line with Trump.  This is all directly his fault.  There are a lot of Republican governors who will trade the lives of their citizens in return for not pissing Trump off.

Well then they are not fit for public office.  So I would argue it's indirectly his fault.  Their lack of morality and humanity is directly their fault.

[henrygandorf 29182]

13 minutes ago, Pancho said:

This interview on CNN with Pence is just...Pence should be sent to jail.  Here's a paraphrased question...

Wolf: You said NY got off to a bad start, but didn't the USA as a whole get off to a bad start?

Pence: Well, China...

i'm watching.  it's hard to look at.

it's insane to me how much easier it would be, and how much better people would react if their primary message was "this is terrible, but here's what we're doing to get the country through this."  but instead, every interview or press briefing is, "we're doing an amazing job, but here are some stories about other people fucking up."

[DDD Dad 14269]

So Pence just said on CNN that we're basically Italy (two weeks behind).  Pretty much what I was afraid of 2 weeks ago.

[DDD Dad 14269]

18 minutes ago, Chooky said:

Inslee's reward for being two weeks ahead of the curve and displaying decisive leadership was to be labeled a "snake" on national television by the president.

10 days after Inslee had already begun doing everything the rest of the country is trying to do now the president said this to the nation:

"I like this stuff.  I really get it.  People are really, really surprised I understand this stuff.  Everyone of these doctors here said, 'How do you know so much about all of this?'  Maybe I just have a natural ability.  But we have plenty of tests.  Anybody who wants a test can get a test.  The tests are beautiful, really.  They're perfect."

"Not as perfect as the call, though."

[4th&Five 41462]

We’re going to be multiple Italy’s though in different parts of the country. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13418]

1 minute ago, henrygandorf said:

i'm watching.  it's hard to look at.

it's insane to me how much easier it would be, and how much better people would react if their primary message was "this is terrible, but here's what we're doing to get the country through this."  but instead, every interview or press briefing is, "we're doing an amazing job, but here are some stories about other people fucking up."

At this moment, Trump does seem to be acting appropriately about covid 19 but I suspect a large part of that is because the stock market has stabilized. Not counting today. I wonder if we see a large stock dump, if Trump will be back to worried about the economy and not as much about lives

 

[DDD Dad 14269]

Louisana Dept. of Health Secretary saying the state is expecting to run out of available ventilators by Saturday.

[henrygandorf 29182]

cnn just showed a map of states that still don't have a statewide lockdown order.  wtf.

so many states.  so many red states.  wonder where that confidence comes from.

[cactusflinthead 27595]

36 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Did I miss this somewhere?

Yesterday's presser. Someone got him to realize that being an asshole all the time was hurting his numbers. 

 

[Brisketexan 104744]

1 minute ago, henrygandorf said:

cnn just showed a map of states that still don't have a statewide lockdown order.  wtf.

so many states.  so many red states.  wonder where that confidence comes from.

They worship the wrong god.

The real God got royally pissed the last time the people worshiped a golden idol.  But we never learn.

[mdmost 42875]

Someone needs to invert and then shrink that image. Then place it in place of the little girl smiling at the house as it's burning down. 

[Snake Diggity 4614]

I wonder if some of these small town mayors or red state governors secretly are taking the strategy of trying to gain herd immunity and get out ahead of everyone else, knowing that peaking now (rather than in 3+ weeks) means your people can still get treated in big city hospitals if needed.

[DigglerontheHoof 21081]

4 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

I wonder if some of these small town mayors or red state governors secretly are taking the strategy of trying to gain herd immunity and get out ahead of everyone else, knowing that peaking now (rather than in 3+ weeks) means your people can still get treated in big city hospitals if needed.

bwahahahahahahahaha.  Yes, red state governors are using 4D chess.

[kevwun 15675]

If they were capable of planning a head, they would be doing everything in their power to save their aged voting base.