CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk

[EMAWesome 101]

2 hours ago, UDontKnow said:

You know how many people are asking their healthcare providers for this medication because Trump, who holds stake in the French manufacturer of the drug, is pimping it based on a French study with many flaws? 

A stake that may be as little as $99.

 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trumps-personal-stake-in-the-malaria-drug-maker-sanofi-could-be-as-small-as-99-2020-04-07?mod=home-page

[washparkhorn 9,939]

Not a doctor but a reminder for parents - the quinine malarial meds can and have killed kids. Do not give to your children without close supervision of Doctor and probably a pharmacist well acquainted with the dangers of it for kiddos.    In our military family, this was the bottle of meds kept in the gun box under lock and key. 

[Mapache 1,117]

14 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

John Prine 

 

I need to go cry or something 

 

[Dahobbs 17,682]

5 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

O Rly?

Why would they just parrot Chinese info?  It’s their job to provide guidance to the world right?

Weird, I wonder if anything happened after January 14?

On 4/2/2020 at 9:34 AM, Dahobbs said:

Yeah, I mean it isn't like the WHO declared a global health emergency at the end of January. 

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/world-health-organization-decide-coronavirus-global-health-emergency/story?id=68639487

And it wasn't telling countries to take the virus more seriously (hint hint USA).

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/02/who-data-shows-coronavirus-is-containable-us-fails-to-contain/?itm_source=parsely-api

https://www.france24.com/en/20200306-coronavirus-world-health-organisation-who-tedros-adhanom-ghebreyesus

And it certainly didn't declare a pandemic on March 11.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/03/covid-19-is-a-pandemic-who-declares/

But, since none of that happened, obviously the only thing we had to go on was a single tweet from January 9. Really too bad. 

Huh, so not only did the WHO declare it a global health emergency 16 days later, but in fact, in early March it was telling countries like the US to get their shit together and take this thing seriously. On March 6:

"The World Health Organization warned Thursday that a "long list" of countries were not showing "the level of political commitment" needed to "match the level of the threat we all face".

"This is not a drill," WHO chief Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus told reporters. 

"This epidemic is a threat for every country, rich and poor."

Tedros called on the heads of government in every country to take charge of the response and "coordinate all sectors", rather than leaving it to health ministries.

What is needed, he said, is "aggressive preparedness."

Gee, I wonder how the President of the United States acted on this news, or the news he was getting from our intelligence services in early January that this thing was bigger than China was letting on, or the news he get from his advisers at the end of January and February that this thing could kill hundreds of thousands of Americans, or the news of China shutting down their whole economy and quarantining a fucking city of 75 million people in February:

 

 Huh, weird. So which reaction was worse again? I'll give you minute to think. 

 

[EMAWesome 101]

2 hours ago, YChang said:

 

You’re right, it doesn’t mean every man woman and child should get it. But that’s the kind of crap his base believes in. And it gets amplified by right-wing media. 

It also doesn't mean that no one should get it but that is the kind of crap the mainstream media believes and they amplify it every chance they get.

[JimmyJames 12,271]

1 minute ago, EMAWesome said:

It also doesn't mean that no one should get it but that is the kind of crap the mainstream media believes and they amplify it every chance they get.

You’re up early. Shouldn’t you be posting this meaningless drivel in about 6 hours or so?

[UDontKnow 10,447]

3 minutes ago, EMAWesome said:

A stake that may be as little as $99.

 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trumps-personal-stake-in-the-malaria-drug-maker-sanofi-could-be-as-small-as-99-2020-04-07?mod=home-page

Still missing the fucking point. It doesn't matter if it's for a penny. It's still unbecoming of the Office of the President and a clear violation of the Hatch Act (something he has violated innumerable times). Donald Trump has a known history of cheating people for less than $99. Furthermore, if it could be worth as little as $99, but then how high could it be? 

Anyone defending Donald Trump at this point is either brain dead or being purposefully obtuse. 

[SaucyJack 3,503]

8 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

I’ve always thought this thread was more sane.  It’s kinda like going to the recruiting forum to have a half decent football convo. 
 

having said that, it’s getting a little weird in here as well.  Maybe y’all take a walk, watch some Netflix, and take a break. 

 

That was the reason I came to the old site.

Then I found this beautiful cesspool.

[Dahobbs 17,682]

NM, not worth it

Edited April 8, 2020 by Dahobbs

[cactusflinthead 27,601]

4 minutes ago, Mapache said:

 

I've been watching this one a lot more the past few days. 

This flat out sucks. 

 

[GRHorn 105]

2 hours ago, BrickHorn said:

To justify the unwise and irresponsible medical musings of President Dipshit, his fluffers now spout off idiotic nonsense that there’s “no harm” in taking unproven medications that may exacerbate reported complications of C19 and that are needed to treat other diseases they are known to be effective for.  The harm comes in the form of risk that this shit will actually lead to worse outcomes and result in shortages.  And we have no fucking reason to believe that there’s any real upside that would justify the risk.  

But, you know, as long as we don’t know that it won’t not help, might as well pop pills. Or hell, no one has proven that huffing glue won’t kill coronavirus. Might as well do that too!  Or have you considered voluntary castration?  Couldn’t hurt... and it just might help!

Point is: not knowing that something won’t work is not good reason to medicate with it.

 

Don’t be such a twat. In vitro tests showed effectiveness. Voluntary castration has not. People are desperate. China tried it. There’s several reasons that clinicians are rolling with it. 

As far as dire side effects go, the only ones that are really being seen in significant numbers are arrhythmias that are being attributed to azithromycin. But again maybe @UDontKnow can tell me about how I don’t know what the fuck is going on.

[cactusflinthead 27,601]

7 minutes ago, EMAWesome said:

It also doesn't mean that no one should get it but that is the kind of crap the mainstream media believes and they amplify it every chance they get.

FUCK OFF 

How many fucking golf carts jackass?

He's a goddamn leech on the tit of the treasury. 

Fuck you and everyone that would defend him.

[JimmyJames 12,271]

2 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Don’t be such a twat. In vitro tests showed effectiveness. Voluntary castration has not. People are desperate. China tried it. There’s several reasons that clinicians are rolling with it. 

As far as dire side effects go, the only ones that are really being seen in significant numbers are arrhythmias that are being attributed to azithromycin. But again maybe @UDontKnow can tell me about how I don’t know what the fuck is going on.

[JimmyJames 12,271]

I dunno. GRU Horn is a trump supporter physician. Or so he claims. Maybe I’m not gonna go to the doctor after all.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,898]

2 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

I dunno. GRU Horn is a trump supporter physician. Or so he claims. Maybe I’m not gonna go to the doctor after all.

remember, there are C-student doctors out there. not all of them get A's

[GRHorn 105]

8 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Weird, I wonder if anything happened after January 14?

Huh, so not only did the WHO declare it a global health emergency 16 days later, but in fact, in early March it was telling countries like the US to get their shit together and take this thing seriously. On March 6:

"The World Health Organization warned Thursday that a "long list" of countries were not showing "the level of political commitment" needed to "match the level of the threat we all face".

"This is not a drill," WHO chief Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus told reporters. 

"This epidemic is a threat for every country, rich and poor."

Tedros called on the heads of government in every country to take charge of the response and "coordinate all sectors", rather than leaving it to health ministries.

What is needed, he said, is "aggressive preparedness."

Gee, I wonder how the President of the United States acted on this news, or the news he was getting from our intelligence services in early January that this thing was bigger than China was letting on, or the news he get from his advisers at the end of January and February that this thing could kill hundreds of thousands of Americans, or the news of China shutting down their whole economy and quarantining a fucking city of 75 million people in February:

 

 Huh, weird. So which reaction was worse again? I'll give you minute to think. 

 

Unless I’m mistaken WHO was the first group allowed into China since they’re the international body focused on this. I guaranfuckingtee you if they actually went to Wuhan in that time they would’ve seen it obviously had human to human spread. 
 

that said, here’s a nice example of The WHO’s efficacy from a CNN article on February 3rd 

 

Monday, a spokeswoman for China's Foreign Ministry accused the US government of inappropriately reacting to the outbreak.

"Even American media and experts doubted the government's decision, saying that the US government's restrictions on China are precisely what the WHO rejects, that the US is turning from overconfidence to fear and overreaction, and that banning the entry of foreigners who traveled to China in the past 14 days is suspected to be violating civil rights instead of reducing risks of virus spreading," Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said.

 

And yes I know and have stated that Trump fucked up the initial response comparing to the flu. I never compared it to the flu. We can look and find people on both sides comparing it to the flu. You will never find that from me. Hell after I texted a pic of me in full ppe to  a friend from Med school he compared it to the flu and I called him a dumbass and he hasn’t texted me back. (he’s a radiologist so fairly disconnected)

[Grandioso 2,592]

I'm going to hell.

 

[elfenix 34,332]

1 hour ago, WhatTheBuck said:

How was Trump's travel "ban" against WHO recommendations when the WHO declared a global health emergency the day before? 

no clue, i'm just stating what i'm reading from people shitting on WHO

[JimmyJames 12,271]

5 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

remember, there are C-student doctors out there. not all of them get A's

Well I already knew he claimed he was rich in here and had a better life than the rest of us, but I didn’t know until this day that he was claiming he was a physician as well. Interesting. If he’s being truthful, which I kind of doubt, that would lower my opinion of physicians quite a bit.

Hes an internet troll hell bent on supporting trump narratives at all costs. He’s simply worthless.

[cactusflinthead 27,601]

 

[Bullneck 19,206]

37 minutes ago, EMAWesome said:

A stake that may be as little as $99.

 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trumps-personal-stake-in-the-malaria-drug-maker-sanofi-could-be-as-small-as-99-2020-04-07?mod=home-page

You know, one way to diffuse all this speculation is to release your tax returns.

[Bullneck 19,206]

10 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Well I already knew he claimed he was rich in here and had a better life than the rest of us, but I didn’t know until this day that he was claiming he was a physician as well. Interesting. If he’s being truthful, which I kind of doubt, that would lower my opinion of physicians quite a bit.

Hes an internet troll hell bent on supporting trump narratives at all costs. He’s simply worthless.

He's either a podiatrist or a chiropractor.  

[Dahobbs 17,682]

21 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Unless I’m mistaken WHO was the first group allowed into China since they’re the international body focused on this. I guaranfuckingtee you if they actually went to Wuhan in that time they would’ve seen it obviously had human to human spread. 
 

that said, here’s a nice example of The WHO’s efficacy from a CNN article on February 3rd 

 

Monday, a spokeswoman for China's Foreign Ministry accused the US government of inappropriately reacting to the outbreak.

"Even American media and experts doubted the government's decision, saying that the US government's restrictions on China are precisely what the WHO rejects, that the US is turning from overconfidence to fear and overreaction, and that banning the entry of foreigners who traveled to China in the past 14 days is suspected to be violating civil rights instead of reducing risks of virus spreading," Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said.

 

And yes I know and have stated that Trump fucked up the initial response comparing to the flu. I never compared it to the flu. We can look and find people on both sides comparing it to the flu. You will never find that from me. Hell after I texted a pic of me in full ppe to  a friend from Med school he compared it to the flu and I called him a dumbass and he hasn’t texted me back. (he’s a radiologist so fairly disconnected)

That wasn't the question posed. Did or did not the WHO turn around after January 14 and start to tell everyone that the disease was serious? Did or did not the WHO call out nations, including the US, for not being prepared?  Did or did not Trump ignore the butt fucking ton of warnings coming from every goddamn direction FOR MONTHS? I'm sorry, given that context, there is fucking 0 reason for you to be up the WHO butt right now and while simultaneously giving excuses for Trump's idiocy. 

And, as a physician, (1) do you acknowledge that actively promoting people to take a drug with NO PROVEN BENEFIT and serious risks would be malpractice? (2) Do you acknowledge that such activity could very well cost a physician their license?  (3) Do you agree that it is dangerous for person in a position of extreme authority (i.e., the President of the United States) to actively promote said drug by saying "what do you have to lose?" In fact, if any other person that wasn't a physician told individuals to take said medication to treat Covid-19, wouldn't you call that the unlicensed practiced of medicine? (4) Wouldn't you as a alleged professional think it is your ethical duty to not  insist that the person NOT tell other people to take an unproven, risky medication?

 

Edited April 8, 2020 by Dahobbs

[Bullneck 19,206]

21 minutes ago, Grandioso said:

I'm going to hell.

 

Damn, that's a  . . . 

Spoiler

 

 

[Anastasis 23,484]

There is nothign wrong with deploying an unproven treatment in a dire clinical situation where the data is collected and analyzed in a systematic way to inform future practice.  That is what is happening in NY and NJ and Washington and even Texas. There is a huge difference between experimental use under these circumstances while we build the evidence base and standing behind the most important podium in teh nation and spewing nonsense. 

[Bullneck 19,206]

43 minutes ago, EMAWesome said:

 that is the kind of crap the mainstream media believes and they amplify it every chance they get.

Can you give me an example of whatever it is you're talking about?

Did you really go to college?  I felt a little bad about asking workswithseed this but part of the problem these days is that people who don't have any higher education are the basis of the Dunning Krueger effect.  

[Dahobbs 17,682]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

There is [nothing] wrong with deploying an unproven treatment in a dire clinical situation where the data is collected and analyzed in a systematic way to inform future practice.  That is what is happening in NY and NJ and Washington and even Texas. There is a huge difference between experimental use under these circumstances while we build the evidence base and standing behind the most important podium in teh nation and spewing nonsense. 

Right. And when you do that you have to inform the patient that there is no proof the medication works and that it has severe side effects. You don't get to tell the patient this is a miracle drug that works great and "what do you have to lose." You know, because as it turns out, the patients actually have a lot to lose. 

[Bullneck 19,206]

42 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Don’t be such a twat. In vitro tests showed effectiveness. Voluntary castration has not. People are desperate. China tried it. There’s several reasons that clinicians are rolling with it. 

As far as dire side effects go, the only ones that are really being seen in significant numbers are arrhythmias that are being attributed to azithromycin. But again maybe @UDontKnow can tell me about how I don’t know what the fuck is going on.

Doctor, can you remind me of the first line of the Hippocratic oath?

BTW, if this drug is 1) A-OK to take, no problem and 2) possibly effective, then shouldn't only people who are bad enough off to be in the hospital taking it?  Under a physicians care.  

Your president said, "what do you have to lose?"  Isn't that really a lesser of two evils thing, like either burning to death or jumping off the burning building?  You're pretty far gone at that point.  Things you wouldn't consider doing are now options.  But to go on TV and say, "What do you have to lose?"

Edited April 8, 2020 by Bullneck

[Cairn Horn88 8,283]

Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
You step out of line, the man come and take you away

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,898]

it's madness that ANYONE would defend trump's pushing of HCQ, but especially so from a "doctor." what fucking reality is this???

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13,587]

5 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Right. And when you do that you have to inform the patient that there is no proof the medication works and that it has severe side effects. You don't get to tell the patient this is a miracle drug that works great and "what do you have to lose." You know, because as it turns out, the patients actually have a lot to lose. 

Not to mention patients for which the drug HAS been approved for but are now having trouble finding.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,898]

I remember reporting not too long ago that the death total in the US was higher than 9/11. Today NYC passed that total alone:
https://apnews.com/6e506c4f105670b8fa8eb5531aadf2c1

Edit: they passed it yesterday. whatever.

Edited April 8, 2020 by Longhorn_Fan68

[Brisketexan 105,319]

it's madness that ANYONE would defend trump's pushing of HCQ, but especially so from a "doctor." what fucking reality is this???

The second-worst one.

The worst one is the one where we end up in a nuclear conflict, too.

And actually, I’m not sure which one this is yet. There’s still time for it to get WAY worse. And if there’s one rule that this admin has NEVER broken, it’s the rule of “it can and will get worse.”

[TwiceHorn 31,534]

2 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Yeah, this line of argument wrt a Sanofi grift specifically doesn't make much sense.  Read the article that Twice posted on the last page or the one I posted earlier today.  The federal government is buying this stuff it appears from regional generic drug manufacturers. It's a non-exclusive off patent drug and everybody with the capability is ramping it up on the faintest of hopes. The ability to actually move the market for Sanofi or Bayer or Teva and all the other much smaller companies is extremely limited.  If this is a grift play, it is one of the dumber ones ever.  Which maybe means it's on brand. The much smarter grift play imo woudl be an antibody diagnostic.  Once one of those are out there is a market of about 300MM americans who will be lining up for one.  

Much more likely in my opinion is that Trump has simply committed to the notion of a deus ex machina in a pill bottle, based on Rudy G, a few quacks, and some very weak french clinical data. 

Yep.

Although that article just mentions the McKessons of the world, it appears that there are about 6-8 approved manufacturers in the US.

[Anastasis 23,484]

5 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

Not to mention patients for which the drug HAS been approved for but are now having trouble finding.

What's a few hundred thousand lupus and RA flare ups between friends. 

[otisdog 365]

1 hour ago, Dahobbs said:

Seriously, if the President were a doctor, he'd lose his license for what he did.

The fuckhead would lose any job he might hold, except, for some reason, being the President of the United States.  

He's killing my bourbon supply...

[henrygandorf 29,194]

7 minutes ago, otisdog said:

The fuckhead would lose any job he might hold, except, for some reason, being the President of the United States. 

it’s because 41% of his bosses are imbeciles. 

[Aqua Buddha 14,608]

I like how the economy up until 3/1 was all Trump but the virus is everyone's fault but his.

[David Dennison 18,946]

Nothing is ever Donald Trump's fault. He only wants credit.

The president has the mentality of a pre-schooler.

[A-Tex Devil 2,462]

Token "please everyone ignore/stop quoting EMAW's posts."  He is the most intellectually dishonest/lacking person in Cloak Room by a long shot. (It's both.  Yes.) Crowd source him out. 

Edited April 8, 2020 by A-Tex Devil

[Dahobbs 17,682]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

Nothing is ever Donald Trump's fault. He only wants credit.

The president has the mentality of a pre-schooler.

Come on, my 3-year old at least recognizes when things are his fault and apologizes. 

[Chuckie Finster 22,729]

I like how the economy up until 3/1 anything positive was all Trump but the virus anything negative is everyone's fault but his.

fify

[cactusflinthead 27,601]

4 minutes ago, A-Tex Devil said:

Token "please everyone ignore/stop quoting EMAW's posts."  He is the most intellectually dishonest/lacking person in Cloak Room by a long shot. (It's both.  Yes.) Crowd source him out. 

Yeah, I forget sometimes.

 

[workswithseed 2,110]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

There is nothign wrong with deploying an unproven treatment in a dire clinical situation where the data is collected and analyzed in a systematic way to inform future practice.  That is what is happening in NY and NJ and Washington and even Texas. There is a huge difference between experimental use under these circumstances while we build the evidence base and standing behind the most important podium in teh nation and spewing nonsense. 

The thing is people also have to be the control side, or you don't get accurate data. I'd be hard pressed to be on that side if my life depended on it.

 

1 hour ago, Bullneck said:

Can you give me an example of whatever it is you're talking about?

Did you really go to college?  I felt a little bad about asking workswithseed this but part of the problem these days is that people who don't have any higher education are the basis of the Dunning Krueger effect.  

No Biggie Smalls, man. 

[cactusflinthead 27,601]

Ain't nobody said anything about Jack Twitter Dorsey.

Mr. Dorsey said he would put 28 percent of his wealth, in the form of shares in his mobile payments company Square, into a limited liability company that he had created, called Start Small. Start Small would make grants to beneficiaries, he said, with the expenditures to be recorded in a publicly accessible Google document.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/07/technology/jack-dorsey-donate-1-billion-coronavirus.html

[SimonBolivar 10,959]

14 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

The thing is people also have to be the control side, or you don't get accurate data. I'd be hard pressed to be on that side if my life depended on it.

I'd imagine supply logistics alone will give you plenty of control patients.

[Captainant 27,762]

15 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

The thing is people also have to be the control side, or you don't get accurate data. I'd be hard pressed to be on that side if my life depended on it.

The control group still gets standard of care, it's not like they just get sugar pills and are shooed away. 

The entire reason for doing trials in the scientific manner boils down to knowing if it even makes a difference to be worth the side effects and other risk factors with a drug or treatment. And to help identify what those concerning symptoms are, should there be an edgecase of health conditions. 

It's not like scientists are trying to slow progress, it's just that when it comes to our bodies chemistry there's considerably higher stakes. And to wit, there's nothing more than anecdotal evidence that is disputed by other anecdotal evidence that HCQ+AZ is effective and safe

[Bama Chick 28,596]

This seems bad.

And not a single reporter will ask about it at tomorrow’s Covid Hootenanny.

[Captainant 27,762]

Bama chick with the assist

[Bama Chick 28,596]

~Socially Distanced High Five~