CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk

[SameSame 1,705]

8 minutes ago, williemackgarza said:

Truth is radical libs and radical repubs are both fuckin idiots.

Agree, but would say there are really no radical rights anymore, it's just all of the right has moved to idiot Trump.

As I consider myself a moderate on the left, I can look at the far left cancel culture and say that's bullshit, get your shit together.  Or here's something else we can improve on.

Doesn't work that way with Trumpkins.  You either follow the orange fool without question or your some kind of enemy socialist elitist.

[Hank Scorpio 17,731]

 

[washparkhorn 9,939]

The Fed does a good job taking care of the wealthy:

The coronavirus rescue is a “trickle-down” plan. Many of the Fed programs don’t appear even secondarily concerned with maintaining employment. The basic idea instead has been to hurl money at “assets,” underscoring the bizarre dualistic nature of this rescue.

If the ordinary person during the crisis dreams of being relieved from market stresses like housing and medical costs, only to receive (at best) one $1200 check, it’s Wall Street actors who are seeing the tyranny of markets fundamentally overthrown, replaced by a giant financial happy face called the Federal Reserve that appears to want to simulate real buying and selling, only with the downside removed. Party on, Wayne!

As Marcus Stanley of Americans for Financial Reform puts it, “the Fed’s perspective on this is, they want to create normalcy” in financial markets. What “normalcy” means, however, at a moment when many businesses are closed or careening toward bankruptcy, is not clear. This heads-I-win, tails-the-Fed-loses economy is resulting in win after win across the financial sector, some more malodorous than others.

In late March, for instance, Citigroup bought nearly $2 billion of AAA-rated securitized commercial loans from PGIM, the investment management business of Prudential, at roughly 90 cents on the dollar. According to Bloomberg, Citi then turned right around and sold those bonds “closer to par,” i.e. nearer to 100 cents on the dollar, a nearly instant $100 million windfall. It appears the CLOs were pledged to the Fed’s Primary Dealer Credit Facility. The reader should be able to do the math on who knew what, and when, in that story. 

It’s hard to know what is ordinary front-running of this type and what is sincere worship at the altar of the Fed’s new “limitless” purchasing power. Investors are now chasing Fed decisions with seemingly real zeal, causing private money to flow directly into the very risk-laden sectors of the economy they probably would be fleeing absent government intervention. 

In one of many hallucinatory headlines from this week, the head of the global allocation team for BlackRock – the company that’s administering Fed buying programs – said his company would henceforth be betting on the Fed’s bets.

“We will follow the Fed and other DM central banks by purchasing what they’re purchasing, and assets that rhyme with those,” said BlackRock’s Rick Rieder.

Other companies are employing the same strategy. “The stimulus seems to be endless,” said Dirk Thiels of KBC Asset Management in Brussels. “Buy what the central bank has been buying and in the short-term it’ll be a good strategy.”

It’s one thing for the Fed to step in and help important companies that have been unduly damaged by coronavirus, firms like Ford, whose debt was downgraded to junkin late March (but which is eligible for support under the Fed programs announced on April 9th). 

It’s another thing for the Fed to create fresh bull markets around its own investments in the debt of basket-case companies, especially since it’s not clear how, say, the continuous propping up of junk bond Exchange-Traded Funds (ETFs) addresses issues like unemployment, or anything else for that matter.

“These financial bailouts are unconnected to any real-world crisis strategy,” is how one market analyst puts it. 

Brian Chappatta of Bloomberg added a similar criticism this week, asking, “How exactly do high-yield ETF purchases help Americans get jobs or pay rent?” 

The Bank of England last summer identified the state of such “open-ended funds” as a potential systemic problem:

More than US$30 trillion of global assets are now held in open‑ended funds that offer short‑term redemptions while investing in longer‑dated and potentially illiquid assets, such as corporate bonds…

The Bank added, “the mismatch between the liquidity of a fund’s assets and its redemption terms can create incentives for investors to withdraw funds ahead of other investors.” 

It went on to say that under a “severe but plausible set of assumptions,” there could be a rush of redemption requests that could “overwhelm the capacity of dealers to absorb those sales,” causing “market dysfunction.”

This is a fancy way of saying that investment banks and asset managers have been making big bucks trading collections of longer-term, potentially hard-to-sell corporate bonds as highly liquid and relatively safe products. In a crisis, the Bank of England warned, these would suddenly be hard to sell, at which point the possible underlying dogshit-ness of these debt instruments might be exposed, causing further market panic.

 

https://taibbi.substack.com/p/the-trickle-up-bailout

[washparkhorn 9,939]

Anyone expecting anything different is a hopeless romantic.

[DigDug 1,672]

Oh fuck this both sides are equal shit.

One side actually uses Qanon and Alex Jones as their mainstream thought process.  Fucking fuck people, come on.

[Message Board User 12,396]

 

[Hank Scorpio 17,731]

 

[Message Board User 12,396]

 

[pyrohornIII 4,820]

Maybe it's because black people are smart enough to not buy this bullshit?  But point taken.  What is the difference between this and BLM movements?  One is the BLM movement wasn't funded and encouraged by billionaires.  

5 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

 

 

[tchookem 3,905]

In terms of corruption, inequality, social mobility, and living conditions for the poor, America is starting to look more like Mexico or Brazil than what is usually considered our peer group, the rest of the west. USA is still among the best places in the world to be top quartile or so. Anything below that and the reality changes quite a bit. We are absolutely approaching third world levels of inequality.

Not tryng to argue, I definitely agree that income/opportunity inequity had been ignored for far too long. But I wouldn't mind doing some more research on the topic. Are there any studies you guys have read on the topic? There was an petty informative article bouncing around about the topic, anyone got anything else?

[4th&Five 41,589]

 

[workswithseed 2,110]

20 minutes ago, SameSame said:

Agree, but would say there are really no radical rights anymore, it's just all of the right has moved to idiot Trump.

As I consider myself a moderate on the left, I can look at the far left cancel culture and say that's bullshit, get your shit together.  Or here's something else we can improve on.

Doesn't work that way with Trumpkins.  You either follow the orange fool without question or your some kind of enemy socialist elitist.

A little off tilt if you see anyone with that's right as a Trumpkin. Then what do you think Amash? He's a righty, but hates Trump. Is he also a Trumpkin? Your logic seems lacking. 

Not every square is a rectangle.

[Gatorubet 30,311]

When you always have a 14" Russian butt plug inscribed "Return to Vlad" up your ass.

[Francisco 2.0 32,428]

https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/local/208/idaho-representative-heather-scott-compares-idaho-to-nazi-germany/277-d32c51bf-d568-4b91-9d6c-131d1a18dbee

 

Quote

Perhaps Idaho Representative Heather Scott should read a history book.

She made that known Thursday in an interview with Jess Fields, a podcaster from Texas.

Here is a piece of that hour-long discussion as we introduce a new segment on The 208 called “No Words Necessary":

 

Quote

"And when you have government telling you that your business is essential or non-essential, yours is non-essential and someone else's is essential, we have a problem there. I mean, that's no different than Nazi Germany where you had government telling people either you were an essential worker or a non-essential worker, and non-essential workers got put on a train,” Scott said.

 

 

 

[tchookem 3,905]

Agree, but would say there are really no radical rights anymore, it's just all of the right has moved to idiot Trump.
As I consider myself a moderate on the left, I can look at the far left cancel culture and say that's bullshit, get your shit together.  Or here's something else we can improve on.
Doesn't work that way with Trumpkins.  You either follow the orange fool without question or your some kind of enemy socialist elitist.

I consider myself moderate on the right (but I admit being extreme on some issues), and I think the bothsiderism is bullshit. Not only has the new "right" welcomed the nutjobs' votes, not only have they given them a seat at the adult table, they've got a direct line to the president.

The GOP is off the rails and it's not even close.

[Gatorubet 30,311]

15 hours ago, babysdaddy said:

You are celebrating? What the fuck is wrong with you. He left March 1st. Plus he lives in New York which, and I’m guessing by your gif you’re thrilled he’s dead, means his republican vote was irrelevant. So in general you are just happy some old guy is dead because he watched Fox News. What the fuck.

Read the article.  He leaned his seat back on flights and wanted more bike lanes.

[Ghost of LL 15,539]

4 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

A little off tilt if you see anyone with that's right as a Trumpkin. Then what do you think Amash? He's a righty, but hates Trump. Is he also a Trumpkin? Your logic seems lacking. 

Not every square is a rectangle.

That just speaks to the real issue: the conservative movement is dead.  Everything conservatives once professed to support--free trade, an internationalist foreign policy, balanced budgets, anti-corruption--have no place in the Trumpublican Party.

So there's really no point in discussing right-versus-left.  That's no longer the driving divergence in American politics.  

[henrygandorf 29,194]

14 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

 

see everyone?  i was right when i said that this would be someone else's responsibility to fix!  step it up governors!!

[pyrohornIII 4,820]

45 minutes ago, Wanker Bob said:

I'm wondering how does America return to good leaders when elections have become tribal popularity contests devoid of any legitimate issues? Most of which is exacerbated by the social media propaganda machine. Getting rid of them isn't the only step back but I don't see any way back without that step. 

They don't have to be elected.  Rush Limbaugh and Hannity were never elected.  Look at their influence.  Oprah nor MLK was elected.  Lots of great leaders were never elected.  

But the younger generations are already off facebook, twitter, etc.  They work within other systems like discord, youtube and snapchat.   That's where the revolution will come from, and hopefully from there will rise a leader through those media strong enough to overcome the accumulated power of the stale facebook. 

What is interesting is how we rail about google and their invading our private lives, facebook and others tracking our data.  Still most state Democratic parties are using what to communicate?  Facebook, Slack and Google Docs.  Smdh.  

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,899]

bUt SoRoS!!!
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/18/coronavirus-americans-protest-stay-at-home?fbclid=IwAR2TBqODFNmU70xGK0MyTEo0zOGRp4qRLrRv1d_8K54sHvf18YhftUeKvmA

Quote

The Michigan Freedom Fund, which said it was a co-host of the rally, has received more than $500,000 from the DeVos family, regular donors to rightwing groups.

The other host, the Michigan Conservative Coalition, was founded by Matt Maddock, now a Republican member of the state house of representatives. The MCC also operates under the name Michigan Trump Republicans, and in January held an event featuring several members of the Trump campaign.

 

[Wanker Bob 379]

10 minutes ago, pyrohornIII said:

They don't have to be elected.  Rush Limbaugh and Hannity were never elected.  Look at their influence.  Oprah nor MLK was elected.  Lots of great leaders were never elected.  

But the younger generations are already off facebook, twitter, etc.  They work within other systems like discord, youtube and snapchat.   That's where the revolution will come from, and hopefully from there will rise a leader through those media strong enough to overcome the accumulated power of the stale facebook. 

What is interesting is how we rail about google and their invading our private lives, facebook and others tracking our data.  Still most state Democratic parties are using what to communicate?  Facebook, Slack and Google Docs.  Smdh.  

50 years ago the young generation was railing against war, against tyranny, and supporting free love and acceptance. Now theyre the generation responsible for GWB and Trump as well as government becoming a tool of billionaires to suppress the masses and inflate their own wealth. 

Counting on people in their 20s to fix this with underground movements isn't realistic. We are rapidly headed toward radical intervention being the only course correct option left. 

[DixonHur 11,367]

29 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/local/208/idaho-representative-heather-scott-compares-idaho-to-nazi-germany/277-d32c51bf-d568-4b91-9d6c-131d1a18dbee

 

 

 

 

 

These are the people the GOP has chosen to put in charge.

Astounding doesn't begin to explain.

[Message Board User 12,396]

 

[TwiceHorn 31,535]

6 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

 

Don't think Fauci girl is old enough to vote.

That underscores another problem with current society or politics.  Because it has become such a team contact sport, it offers the disaffected a sense of belonging.  

[Mdhorn 5,987]

3 hours ago, Message Board User said:

Hogan about to get the Mitt Romney treatment from POTUS and his legion of MAGAts.

 

Then they give up their only and best Republican foothold in Maryland.  That would be beyond stupid.  

[Mdhorn 5,987]

7 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Don't think Fauci girl is old enough to vote.

That underscores another problem with current society or politics.  Because it has become such a team contact sport, it offers the disaffected a sense of belonging.  

Well, Christ healed the sick and fed and clothed the poor--there's a whole book about it.  How did they subvert the Bible without changing the text?  It's almost like they don't read it.  

Polio and small pox no longer exist because of prayer. F'k Fauci.  Why are we even working on vaccines when we got God and his book that we don't read.  

Edited April 19, 2020 by Mdhorn

[Mo Horn 8,854]

Over 40k in deaths now. Sadly, the hope to have no more than 60K is a pipe dream imo. We could be there before Friday. 

[BradInATX 9,208]

3 hours ago, Wanker Bob said:

America is quickly sliding down toward one of if not the worst countries in the developed world to live in. As long as Facebook and Twitter and Fox news, etc are allowed to keep the flow of bullshit and propaganda going it will only keep getting worse and worse. 

Shut all of that down tomorrow and make it where stupid people have to actually work hard to get out a propaganda message to hundreds of thousands/millions and this problem starts to reverse in time. 

As much as I hate to say this America is too stupid for total freedom of speech at the largest technological levels. We should have free speech at the individual level but any technology that allows idiots to easily manipulate each other with garbage on a large scale should be dismantled as it poses a greater threat to the American people than all the foreign enemy/terrorists of the world combined. And all news outlets need to be aggressively fact checked and forced to shut down after massive fines are levied if they continue to produce falsehoods. Any opinion pieces should be forced to be continuously labeled as "opinion only and not factual news". Have anything labeled news be only a reporting of facts and zero opinion or spin allowed.  

I hate that it has come to this but the American people have failed to handle the firehose of bullshit properly and need to be protected from themselves. 

 

[Degenerate Gardner 4,085]

1 hour ago, Message Board User said:

 

 

The story is sadly unsurprising. It does amaze me that anyone would pussyfoot around and claim Trump "is prepared to" incite a culture war to save himself. He owes his political existence to culture wars and will never cease fanning those flames. Ever. It's too easy, too effective, and frankly too fun to resist for someone fundamentally disinterested in uniting. 

Edited April 19, 2020 by Degenerate Gardner

[Mdhorn 5,987]

1 hour ago, Wanker Bob said:

I'm wondering how does America return to good leaders when elections have become tribal popularity contests devoid of any legitimate issues? Most of which is exacerbated by the social media propaganda machine. Getting rid of them isn't the only step back but I don't see any way back without that step. 

Legitimate issues like healthcare, reducing carbon footprint for global warming, lessening dependence on fossil fuels and affordable education?  These were a few that candidates this election cycle and last campaigned on.  What issues did you think were more legitimate?  

[Degenerate Gardner 4,085]

8 minutes ago, Mo Horn said:

Over 40k in deaths now. Sadly, the hope to have no more than 60K is a pipe dream imo. We could be there before Friday. 

A friend texted me this morning that her mom in a FL assisted living place died overnight. That state's combo of ignorant politics and old folks is an unfolding disaster. 

[UDontKnow 10,448]

16 hours ago, JimmyJames said:

If trump and the trumpkins want to continue with the hate rallies I’m ok with that. 

I'm not okay with it. Those same Trumpkins don't practice social distancing and get others sick - from the poor grocery workers to the healthcare workers that have to care for their stupid asses when they come down with the illness. They are actively working to divide the country at a time when it should be united. 

[cactusflinthead 27,602]

1 hour ago, Message Board User said:

 

But to look at casualties as numbers on the curve is to misunderstand what the Fox talkers and the Trump donors are telling us. The political calculus of Trump’s Plan A depends less on containing the total number of casualties than on confining the casualties to people deemed expendable.

---

But what if the calculus of Plan A is wrong? What if reopening leads to a surge in deaths that cannot be politically contained? In that case, Trump reverts to his Plan B: a culture war against Democratic governors and blue states

[UDontKnow 10,448]

25 minutes ago, Mo Horn said:

Over 40k in deaths now. Sadly, the hope to have no more than 60K is a pipe dream imo. We could be there before Friday. 

For it to reach 60K before Friday is roughly 4000 deaths a day, not likely. Crossing 60K by May 1 is more likely assuming about the same daily death toll continues until the peak which has been forecasted as the end of this month/beginning of next month. The big takeaway from this all is that Fauci wasn't exaggerating and being an alarmist when he gave the initial prediction of 80-100K dead because there will be COVID-19 deaths through the winter and into 2021.

[Bozo_Casanova 26,549]

1 hour ago, washparkhorn said:

Anyone expecting anything different is a hopeless romantic.

You personally argued for very similar tax stimulus in 2003 and subsequently argued In 2008 and 2010 that letting it expire back to pre-2001 rates would be “punishing success” and would hurt the middle by causing top earners to exit business altogether and presumably become railroad tramps and beach bums.  
 

Curious what appeared to you between then and now on the road to Damascus. 

[TheRealRonWeaver? 1,258]

America is quickly sliding down toward one of if not the worst countries in the developed world to live in. As long as Facebook and Twitter and Fox news, etc are allowed to keep the flow of bullshit and propaganda going it will only keep getting worse and worse. 
Shut all of that down tomorrow and make it where stupid people have to actually work hard to get out a propaganda message to hundreds of thousands/millions and this problem starts to reverse in time. 
As much as I hate to say this America is too stupid for total freedom of speech at the largest technological levels. We should have free speech at the individual level but any technology that allows idiots to easily manipulate each other with garbage on a large scale should be dismantled as it poses a greater threat to the American people than all the foreign enemy/terrorists of the world combined. And all news outlets need to be aggressively fact checked and forced to shut down after massive fines are levied if they continue to produce falsehoods. Any opinion pieces should be forced to be continuously labeled as "opinion only and not factual news". Have anything labeled news be only a reporting of facts and zero opinion or spin allowed.  
I hate that it has come to this but the American people have failed to handle the firehose of bullshit properly and need to be protected from themselves. 

“Developed.” LOL.

[UDontKnow 10,448]

6 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

But to look at casualties as numbers on the curve is to misunderstand what the Fox talkers and the Trump donors are telling us. The political calculus of Trump’s Plan A depends less on containing the total number of casualties than on confining the casualties to people deemed expendable.

---

But what if the calculus of Plan A is wrong? What if reopening leads to a surge in deaths that cannot be politically contained? In that case, Trump reverts to his Plan B: a culture war against Democratic governors and blue states

Call me crazy, but if and when Plan A fails (look at the spikes in China and Singapore after opening back up), I don't see how Plan B can be that effective. What turned the tide of public opinion during the Vietnam War was video footage (courtesy of the media) of all the body bags coming back to the country. As a society, we need our media to continue to ask questions and report the facts. Granted, if Fox News was around back then, they would still be touting the success of the Vietnamese campaign, call Democrats unpatriotic, and dismiss the number of KIA as being inflated and not a big deal because of the number of annual deaths due to alcohol, cigarettes, auto accidents, etc.

[Irieguy 1,059]

1 hour ago, workswithseed said:

 

Not every square is a rectangle.

Every square is a rectangle. Dipshit. 

[UDontKnow 10,448]

2 minutes ago, Irieguy said:

Every square is a rectangle. Dipshit. 

I think what he meant was that not every rectangle is a square. But have pity on workswithseed for being a square because he knows only about seed.

[conVINCEd 21,469]

1 minute ago, UDontKnow said:

I think what he meant was that not every rectangle is a square. But have pity on workswithseed for being a square because he knows only about seed.

I have mistakenly read his name as works with weed, and thought that was an odd profession for someone with his political views.  Seed makes so much more sense.

[Pig Bellmont 8,738]

15 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

You personally argued for very similar tax stimulus in 2003 and subsequently argued In 2008 and 2010 that letting it expire back to pre-2001 rates would be “punishing success” and would hurt the middle by causing top earners to exit business altogether and presumably become railroad tramps and beach bums.  
 

Curious what appeared to you between then and now on the road to Damascus. 

It’s not the same washpark. This version was shit posting Bernie bro memes as fast as b_t just a couple months ago 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,899]

27 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

I have mistakenly read his name as works with weed, and thought that was an odd profession for someone with his political views.  Seed makes so much more sense.

always read it the same as well. something about that combination of letters conjures weed. or it could be that I'm high all the time

[4th&Five 41,589]

 

[Message Board User 12,396]

 

[pyrohornIII 4,820]

1 hour ago, Wanker Bob said:

50 years ago the young generation was railing against war, against tyranny, and supporting free love and acceptance. Now theyre the generation responsible for GWB and Trump as well as government becoming a tool of billionaires to suppress the masses and inflate their own wealth. 

Counting on people in their 20s to fix this with underground movements isn't realistic. We are rapidly headed toward radical intervention being the only course correct option left.  

I'm not arguing with you.  Really.  I am a late boomer.  I ran for a bit in the conservative circles until about 30 years ago.  My mistake was I trusted the generations that preceded ours to make good decisions about our political leadership.  I had more interesting things to do, like go to college, party, start a career and family.  

That generation was raised in a vacuum.  Limited media both in news and entertainment.  Still a lot of small town in the US, lots of plants and manufacturing jobs. College degrees were affordable for most middle class families without breaking the bank.   America was good to a lot of kids, particularly white.  So we had no reason to really think things were going to go off the rails.  We had Happy Days and Good Times to  remind us how great our country was.  

These kids today have a lot broader world and so many more inputs and ways to communicate.  So much more room for self expression, from hair styles, to musical preferences.  And it will be their world in the coming years.  I just hope they use all this power of information and communication to take hold of it, transform it into something better than what our misled generation has dealt them.  

The boomers were a by product of the aftermath of one of the world's greatest calamities, WW2.  The generation that spawned us they often call the greatest generation.  Maybe, maybe not.  But I do think that the losses and sacrifices of WW2 forced a lot of people to look inward and re-evaluate their reasons for being here and others not surviving.  I don't think that COVID will be enough to cause such inner reflection for most, but I think it will be a component of the Trump movement that tips the scales for enough of us to re-evaluate, like after the Great Depression and WW2 brought us out of the GIlded Age.  That will lead to your radical intervention.  

[Bama Chick 28,596]

[Wanker Bob 379]

1 hour ago, Mdhorn said:

Legitimate issues like healthcare, reducing carbon footprint for global warming, lessening dependence on fossil fuels and affordable education?  These were a few that candidates this election cycle and last campaigned on.  What issues did you think were more legitimate?  

And yet with the election of Trump health care has gotten worse as the ACA has been sabotaged, climate change has taken a bigger hit as Trump rolls back restrictions on heavy polluters, and American education continues to slide down the world rankings as is evidenced by how many abjectly stupid Americans still can't see what a disaster he has been. 

[workswithseed 2,110]

20 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

always read it the same as well. something about that combination of letters conjures weed. or it could be that I'm high all the time

Hopefully it's not smoking, zepol has it right with edibles.

 

55 minutes ago, Irieguy said:

Every square is a rectangle. Dipshit. 

I read your name as ireguy, it makes more sense.

55 minutes ago, UDontKnow said:

I think what he meant was that not every rectangle is a square. But have pity on workswithseed for being a square because he knows only about seed.

I need no pity, I just need to be right when I type them.

[DixonHur 11,367]

10 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

So she's upset that she can't provide BJ's under the palm tree because of social distancing?

[Mdhorn 5,987]

14 minutes ago, Wanker Bob said:

And yet with the election of Trump health care has gotten worse as the ACA has been sabotaged, climate change has taken a bigger hit as Trump rolls back restrictions on heavy polluters, and American education continues to slide down the world rankings as is evidenced by how many abjectly stupid Americans still can't see what a disaster he has been. 

One campaigned on these things and the other said he had plans for everything even though he didn't disclose anything, sought foreign intervention, made fun of a reporter with disabilities and people who served, paid off hookers not to disclose affairs during an election cycle and hid his taxes while blasting those that pay taxes.  Guess which candidate won?  But I wouldn't say that these things weren't issues or even debated.  I would say that rules and laws only apply to one candidate.