CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk

[Mo Horn 8852]

Looking at the numbers, we will be at 1 million cases, and 60k deaths, before the end of April. 

[GW Hayduke 1953]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

These statements are not accurate representations of how the SK tracing system works. 

Those statements are accurate representations on what contact tracing could be like in the US if we had proper leadership.

But instead, lets be afraid of contact tracing because of “our visions of American Democracy” mixed with our belief there is only one way to contact trace.

Fear mongering is lame.

[Anastasis 23479]

2 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

Those statements are accurate representations on what contact tracing could be like in the US if we had proper leadership.

So you agree that a SK-style tracing system is not implementable in the US for a variety of reasons.  Progress in baby steps I guess.

 

[GW Hayduke 1953]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

So you agree that a SK-style tracing system is not implementable in the US for a variety of reasons.  Progress in baby steps I guess.

 

I agree that fear mongering in the name of diluting blame towards leadership is just as bad as fear mongering out of ignorance.

Contact tracing won’t require Nancy Pelosi to see your sex dolls credit card purchases.

Watch this video. It is short and easy to understand.

 

[TwiceHorn 31510]

10 hours ago, cactusflinthead said:

Why is it strictly the purview of the conservatives to eliminate waste and redundancy? Seems like I remember a few calls from the left about waste. It is not about saving money. It's about whose ox gets gored. Take a gander at how much we spend on our inspectors. They don't make shit. That poor kid that could have shut my ass down for verboten palm trees didn't know what he was looking at. He walked right by. And yet we still get a crop every year of do gooders that want to make a difference. I should have italicized it. 

Trump has run off anyone that has some kind of purpose besides kissing his ass. He's the final stage of dumbing down. Birx could feel her soul slipping away. Thanks a lot conservatives.

It isn't the exclusive purview of a conservative party, or it shouldn't be.  But as a general proposition as between Liberal and Conservative (note the capital letters) political philosophies, one tends to favor (federal) government solutions and the other less so.

One thing I think we're going to find in the aftermath of Trump is a big expansion of government, for better and for worse.

[TXSG8R 3362]

10 hours ago, workswithseed said:

Can 3 years mess up many years of in placed bureaucracy?

1 month can mess up an institution, 3 years is long enough to completely change one.  I'm not saying that's what this admin did to the CDC or FDA (at least not completely), but to act like 3 years is some short time to affect change is crazy.  Continuity matters, and inertia is also important when looking at how change affects gov't bodies.  Institutional knowledge is a real thing, which is why continuity is important.  If you drain the swamp, or more apropo to this administration, insert your cronies in place of long standing professionals and call it draining the swamp, you lose institutional knowledge.  Wont matter when it comes to a lot of day to day functions, because the body can still largely self regulate with a change in leadership, but it matters a lot when edge scenarios come into play.  

Flu season?  Its as common as doing annual evaluations, the CDC doesn't really need any real direction to handle it.  The FDA doesnt have to make any hard decisions on approvals.  Novel, highly contagious virus?  We want all our pieces in play.  Budget cuts at the CDC hampered that response.  We lost positions in China that could have given us better info earlier.  We lost funding to state and local governments that could have alerted us to cases in the US earlier.  Is this a Trump issue?  Not entirely, the R's have been attacking the CDC's budget since before Trump came on board, but Trump is on board to continue those efforts.

Inertia is also important with gov't orgs.  They are like oil tankers, changes to course are slow, and take a long time to complete.  That's why this line of thinking is absurd.  

Quote

“No,” Trump responded. “We can get money, we can increase staff—we know all the people. This is a question I asked the doctors before. Some of the people we cut, they haven’t used for many, many years, and if we have ever need them we can get them very, very quickly. And rather than spending the money—I’m a business person. I don’t like having thousands of people around when you don’t need them. When we need them, we can get them back very quickly.”

You cant spool up an effective national response to something like this quickly.  You need pieces in place at the start.  Assembling the team takes time.  Having the team establish their roles and start coordinating with national, state, and local orgs takes even longer.  The right way is to have that team in place, ready to fire, at all times.  The US government isn't a business, treating it like one is stupid. We don't mothball our military while they don't have wars to fight, because we understand the impact of not being prepared for a fight.  Rs have no problem pumping money into defense despite the fact that the chance of the military directly intervening to save US lives are slim because all of their work occurs OCONUS.  Yet somehow, mothballing our medical response is somehow a smart business move, even though it has the more immediate effect of saving citizens lives.  The CDC is a piece, and previous administrations recognized that it wasnt strong enough on its own and stood up the pandemic response team.  Trump's admin decided something different.  The change is on him. 

Government organizations have bloat.  They have dead weight.  Just like bigger companies have bloat, and dead weight.  Leaders impact that.  Trump wanted the big job, he gets the good and bad with it.  He has had 3 years to change things for better or worse.  Blaming previous administrations points to poor leadership on his part, because he didn't recognize issues and fix them.  He didn't appoint good people to steer those ships.  He didn't check on those ships to make sure they were on course.  You don't get to claim total authority and say you don't take any responsibility.  

[TwiceHorn 31510]

26 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

That article is nuts. Who has been shaming people for going outside?  I’ve walked my dogs every day this shit show has been going on. People are everywhere. Have some people really not left their homes?

I guess maybe in a massive city like NYC it’s different, just based on density, but the author mentions multiple places. 

Yeah, I have been mountain biking almost every day and see tons of walkers and runners.  It's been a good thing.

The playgrounds, however, are closed and sometimes taped off with crime scene tape.  Keeping people off benches, swings, and playground equipment seems like a sound idea, although maybe the virus wont live in the heat and sun, I don't know.

Edited April 26, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Anastasis 23479]

3 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

I agree that fear mongering in the name of diluting blame towards leadership is just as bad as fear mongering out of ignorance.

Contact tracing won’t require Nancy Pelosi to see your sex dolls credit card purchases.

Watch this video. It is short and easy to understand.

 

I got absolutely no problem with the concept of tracing and its value, so fuck right off with the continued "fear mongering" quip.

It is not fear mongering to point out that the extremely effective SK tracing system would not be acceptable to most Americans.  And after a little bit of schizoid posting and a pivot to talk about a different approach entirely, you apparently agree.

If you want to talk about specific techniques for tracing that would likely be acceptable in the US, and what strategies and policies would need to be used to implement tracing broadly and uniformly, I am all for it.

[TXSG8R 3362]

6 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

I agree that fear mongering in the name of diluting blame towards leadership is just as bad as fear mongering out of ignorance.

Contact tracing won’t require Nancy Pelosi to see your sex dolls credit card purchases.

Watch this video. It is short and easy to understand.

 

Another example.  

https://www.unacast.com/covid19/social-distancing-scoreboard

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

5 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

1 month can mess up an institution, 3 years is long enough to completely change one.  I'm not saying that's what this admin did to the CDC or FDA (at least not completely), but to act like 3 years is some short time to affect change is crazy.  Continuity matters, and inertia is also important when looking at how change affects gov't bodies.  Institutional knowledge is a real thing, which is why continuity is important.  If you drain the swamp, or more apropo to this administration, insert your cronies in place of long standing professionals and call it draining the swamp, you lose institutional knowledge.  Wont matter when it comes to a lot of day to day functions, because the body can still largely self regulate with a change in leadership, but it matters a lot when edge scenarios come into play.  

Flu season?  Its as common as doing annual evaluations, the CDC doesn't really need any real direction to handle it.  The FDA doesnt have to make any hard decisions on approvals.  Novel, highly contagious virus?  We want all our pieces in play.  Budget cuts at the CDC hampered that response.  We lost positions in China that could have given us better info earlier.  We lost funding to state and local governments that could have alerted us to cases in the US earlier.  Is this a Trump issue?  Not entirely, the R's have been attacking the CDC's budget since before Trump came on board, but Trump is on board to continue those efforts.

Inertia is also important with gov't orgs.  They are like oil tankers, changes to course are slow, and take a long time to complete.  That's why this line of thinking is absurd.  

You cant spool up an effective national response to something like this quickly.  You need pieces in place at the start.  Assembling the team takes time.  Having the team establish their roles and start coordinating with national, state, and local orgs takes even longer.  The right way is to have that team in place, ready to fire, at all times.  The US government isn't a business, treating it like one is stupid. We don't mothball our military while they don't have wars to fight, because we understand the impact of not being prepared for a fight.  Rs have no problem pumping money into defense despite the fact that the chance of the military directly intervening to save US lives are slim because all of their work occurs OCONUS.  Yet somehow, mothballing our medical response is somehow a smart business move, even though it has the more immediate effect of saving citizens lives.  The CDC is a piece, and previous administrations recognized that it wasnt strong enough on its own and stood up the pandemic response team.  Trump's admin decided something different.  The change is on him. 

Government organizations have bloat.  They have dead weight.  Just like bigger companies have bloat, and dead weight.  Leaders impact that.  Trump wanted the big job, he gets the good and bad with it.  He has had 3 years to change things for better or worse.  Blaming previous administrations points to poor leadership on his part, because he didn't recognize issues and fix them.  He didn't appoint good people to steer those ships.  He didn't check on those ships to make sure they were on course.  You don't get to claim total authority and say you don't take any responsibility.  

From my armchair perspective, you also get a lot of small fires that no longer are extinguished that while causing minimal damage to the bulk of your populace, keep weakening the local government's capabilities and then when the conflagration of mammoth proportions is raging across the nation, you only have a couple of rakes and a jug of bleach. Oh, and maybe a roll of paper towels if HEB is open and has them.

[GW Hayduke 1953]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

I got absolutely no problem with the concept of tracing and its value, so fuck right off with the continued "fear mongering" quip.

It is not fear mongering to point out that the extremely effective SK tracing system would not be acceptable to most Americans.  And after a little bit of schizoid posting and a pivot to talk about a different approach entirely, you apparently agree.

If you want to talk about specific techniques for tracing that would likely be acceptable in the US, and what strategies and policies would need to be used to implement tracing broadly and uniformly, I am all for it.

Then get on the contact tracing train dickwad and stop fear mongering against some strawman to dilute blame from our current leadership

[WhatTheBuck 28791]

41 minutes ago, Mo Horn said:

Looking at the numbers, we will be at 1 million cases, and 60k deaths, before the end of April. 

Officially. In reality we probably passed those numbers weeks ago. 

[WhatTheBuck 28791]

I'd like to see the scarf that Dr. Birx wore today laid out flat so I could see the whole design. 

[Anastasis 23479]

4 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

Then get on the contact tracing train dickwad and stop fear mongering against some strawman to dilute blame from our current leadership

Never been off that train shit for brains. It's not fear mongering to point out that SK's system is not tenable in the US. That is not a deflection for Trump, it is intended to redirect posters citing the same shit about SK's response over and over to focus on alternatives that are actually realistic. Glad that you appear to have arrived there. 

[jimmyjazz 45992]

13 hours ago, Anastasis said:

We bottlenecked the process through the cdc and fda sops. 

Thanks, Obama.

[GW Hayduke 1953]

11 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Never been off that train shit for brains. It's not fear mongering to point out that SK's system is not tenable in the US. That is not a deflection for Trump, it is intended to redirect posters citing the same shit about SK's response over and over to focus on alternatives that are actually realistic. Glad that you appear to have arrived there. 

Uhhhhh...

Then why the constant masturbation towards SK and “visions of American Democracy.”  

We aren’t a third world country. We aren’t limited to implementing programs that have only been used by other countries. We aren’t retarded trailer mongoloids. SK can do it. So can the fucking US. The reason the US can’t do it has nothing to do with “visions of American Democracy” and everything to do with our current leadership. 

Insert masterbating trumpkin zombie pic

[HenryJames 66133]

 

[Anastasis 23479]

23 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

Uhhhhh...

Then why the constant masturbation towards SK and “visions of American Democracy.”  

Another poster brought up SK's approach, suggesting that "they have shown us exactly how to do this in a democratic society".  I responded to that. Be best. 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

That article is nuts. Who has been shaming people for going outside?  I’ve walked my dogs every day this shit show has been going on. People are everywhere. Have some people really not left their homes?

I guess maybe in a massive city like NYC it’s different, just based on density, but the author mentions multiple places. 

I live in NYC. People aren't shamed for going outside generally. They are shamed for not wearing masks and for gathering.

However, runners are the new cyclists when it comes to being inconsiderate assholes. They run on the sidewalks with no mask, don't try to maintain a safe distance from others, and suddenly everyone and their mom is running.  So what if you are moving faster. Its on you, not them, to distance yourself from other people on the sidewalk.

No doubt that considerate runners are shamed too, but that also happened with considerate cyclists that don't run red lights and follow traffic flow. If you are running over the brooklyn bridge walkway with no mask, you are an asshole. 

And there are also still clueless types talking on their phone while standing at an entry point or bottleneck instead of standing somewhere with less foot traffic. But there has always been a scourge of people that do things like stop and check their phone right when they get off an escalator.  It should be legal to sucker punch these types. Just get the fuck out of the way. 

[EMAWesome 101]

1 hour ago, GW Hayduke said:

Easily. I would very much rather it be the government than Facebook.

They won’t need financial data. Stop fear mongering. Medical data would be limited (positive to a test, negative, antibodies).

GPS data would likely be stored directly on your device and purged after a set time period.

Fear mongering is lame.

insert pic of trumpkin zombies

Since when has not needing something prevented the federal government from trying to get it?  And you would actually trust that government would not have all this information filed away somewhere in safekeeping before it got purged? This idea sounds to me like the Coronavirus crisis version of the Patriot Act.

[cactusflinthead 27601]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

It isn't the exclusive purview of a conservative party, or it shouldn't be.  But as a general proposition as between Liberal and Conservative (note the capital letters) political philosophies, one tends to favor (federal) government solutions and the other less so.

One thing I think we're going to find in the aftermath of Trump is a big expansion of government, for better and for worse.

Is it a government solution to regulate drugs that might get you high? Shall we go down the list of things that Conservatives want to regulate vs. what Liberals want to regulate? Because that's what solutions often equals. Solution for poverty is what? Trickle down?

Name me a Conservative solution that has worked as sold to us, because I'm still waiting for the largesse of the tax cuts to get to me. Y'know the ones way back with Reagan. I'm still trying to find wages that keep up with the cost of living. I've seen plenty of people locked up for weed. I still can't go to the liquor store today. We're still dealing with the Conservative solutions to moral questions. 

We've been over this before in a dozen threads. It comes back to the same lists. Conservatives want control of certain areas and absolutely don't want to be controlled in others. That they don't or were ever anything else than controlling from a federal level is absurd. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

15 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Jimmy, it's alright buddy.  Just go ahead and admit that you were just talking out of your ass. That will take much less time, energy, and effort than what will be a fruitless lit search. 

Ok my man. Just to get you to finally shut up about this so we can focus on our Biden Texas bet instead I will send you some articles this evening. 

[TwiceHorn 31510]

4 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

Is it a government solution to regulate drugs that might get you high? Shall we go down the list of things that Conservatives want to regulate vs. what Liberals want to regulate? Because that's what solutions often equals. Solution for poverty is what? Trickle down?

Name me a Conservative solution that has worked as sold to us, because I'm still waiting for the largesse of the tax cuts to get to me. Y'know the ones way back with Reagan. I'm still trying to find wages that keep up with the cost of living. I've seen plenty of people locked up for weed. I still can't go to the liquor store today. We're still dealing with the Conservative solutions to moral questions. 

We've been over this before in a dozen threads. It comes back to the same lists. Conservatives want control of certain areas and absolutely don't want to be controlled in others. That they don't or were ever anything else than controlling from a federal level is absurd. 

I'm not talking about failed GOP regulation/deregulation programs.  I'm talking big picture Liberal/Conservative, not Democrat/GOP.

Part of my post about needing a conservative party is a big C conservative party, not the fucking GOP.  You have no idea what Conservative actually means because we haven't had a Conservative party in 20-30-40 years.

I remain a big C conservative to moderate, not blindly oppose, the wonderful government solutions to everything that the Liberals are going to propose.  Recent GOP attempts to be actually Conservative have been mostly a failure, if they were even actually Conservative to begin with.  It doesn't mean that a healthy distrust of government is a bad thing.  Nor does it mean that the market is the solution for everything.

 

[JimmyJames 12271]

15 hours ago, GRHorn said:

Lol. Yeah we just need your team in charge. It would totally be cool. What a fucking sheep. 

I thought you said I was the only one here you had on ignore? 

[wildcat09 29355]

2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I'm not talking about failed GOP regulation/deregulation programs.  I'm talking big picture Liberal/Conservative, not Democrat/GOP.

Part of my post about needing a conservative party is a big C conservative party, not the fucking GOP.  You have no idea what Conservative actually means because we haven't had a Conservative party in 20-30-40 years.

I remain a big C conservative to moderate, not blindly oppose, the wonderful government solutions to everything that the Liberals are going to propose.  Recent GOP attempts to be actually Conservative have been mostly a failure, if they were even actually Conservative to begin with.  It doesn't mean that a healthy distrust of government is a bad thing.  Nor does it mean that the market is the solution for everything.

 

 I’m confused why you’re referring to that type of conservatism as big C conservative, not small c conservative.

[StassneyHorn 6620]

Americans will voluntarily give up all that information whenever they agree to download some new social media app anyway. They aren’t going to harvest your porn watching habits and expose it to the world.

[TwiceHorn 31510]

8 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

 I’m confused why you’re referring to that type of conservatism as big C conservative, not small c conservative.

Because it's the political philiosophy within the movement of classical liberalism.  Not GOP/Creepy Christian/Trump bullshit masquerading as conservatism. 

Of course the whole thing may be so theoretical as to be impractical in real life.

Edited April 26, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[gmr548 16584]

1 hour ago, HenryJames said:

 

But her emails!

[elfenix 34330]

2 hours ago, Anastasis said:

You have a point, of course. Now, integration of all of those feeds in real time as required for tracing?

 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

28 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I'm not talking about failed GOP regulation/deregulation programs.  I'm talking big picture Liberal/Conservative, not Democrat/GOP.

Part of my post about needing a conservative party is a big C conservative party, not the fucking GOP.  You have no idea what Conservative actually means because we haven't had a Conservative party in 20-30-40 years.

I remain a big C conservative to moderate, not blindly oppose, the wonderful government solutions to everything that the Liberals are going to propose.  Recent GOP attempts to be actually Conservative have been mostly a failure, if they were even actually Conservative to begin with.  It doesn't mean that a healthy distrust of government is a bad thing.  Nor does it mean that the market is the solution for everything.

 

The buzzwords, (C)onservative and (L)iberal, mean very little. Currently, the GOP is entirely anti-government except for when it comes to military and law enforcement.

So while there could be some discussion on whether M4A or federally administered education is desirable, we don't have a GOP who is even sitting down to that table to discuss.  

Instead, we have a GOP that has been busy dismantling all public health governance, including the CDC, dismantling the department of State, and dismantling the EPA and the SEC.  None of these agencies are even remotely "socialist."  And this has been happening for 40 years. Trump is simply more transparent with it.

The GOP isn't even currently libertarian. Its anarchist. Even in a libertarian dream island, they wouldn't allow a resident to pollute the whole island.  All the landowners would get together and stop it.  One could even call this meeting a "government."

Personally, I'm leaning toward the "if they want anarchy, let's give it to them" solution, but we will see what happens in November. 

Edited April 26, 2020 by FondrenRoad

[softlynow 1816]

7 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Because it's the political philiosophy within the movement of classical liberalism.  Not GOP/Creepy Christian/Trump bullshit masquerading as conservatism. 

Of course the whole thing may be so theoretical as to be impractical in real life.

Big c or little, the bottom line is that conservatism as you would desire is attractive to far fewer people than we’ve been told. Most folks calling themselves conservative are social cons, rich greedy types or outright grifters. The George Will’s of the world are quite rare.

There’s no right/center-right path to electoral viability for moderated liberalism except in coalition with liberals or with the deplorables. That has been the case for 150 years if not forever.
 

Your place, philosophically speaking, is to pick your poison. Buckley knew this. That’s why he pushed for fusion of ideals that are naturally in tension with each other when he invited the fundies to his fusionist vision of the movement and into the mix at the NR. He chose appropriately for the time (from a success of the movement standpoint) but we’re living out the nightmare caused by his successors (now Never Trumpers) losing their grip on the movement to the grifters and the hateful “Christians.”

Right-libertarians would do well to fully embrace a role as the voice of caution in coalition with the left/far-left. Outside of that coalition, they’ll likely be ignored by all. 

[BrickHorn 18251]

21 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

The buzzwords, (C)onservative and (L)iberal, mean very little. Currently, the GOP is entirely anti-government except for when it comes to military and law enforcement.

...except when the Gestapo comes to Bastropo.  

Modern Republicans don’t give a shit about law enforcement or military as independent instruments of fairly and justly defending common principles that benefit the greater good. But they love them some cops when they’re beating down BLM protesters, ripping immigrant children from their parents, and maybe just maybe Locking Her Up.

The GOP worships law enforcement and the military only as tools for violently oppressing others.  When law or policy requires telling some jackass gun nut rancher he can’t trespass on federal land, or telling a conspiracy theorist antivaxxer her kids need measles shots before they attend free schools, or requiring a low-level bureaucrat who cashes a federal paycheck to do her damned job whether or not she likes homosexuals, well that’s Tyranny! and don’t the police have better things to do like cracking down on atheists or freeing all those sex slaves from the pizza parlor?

Edited April 26, 2020 by BrickHorn

[TwiceHorn 31510]

20 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

The buzzwords, (C)onservative and (L)iberal, mean very little. Currently, the GOP is entirely anti-government except for when it comes to military and law enforcement.

So while there could be some discussion on whether M4A or federally administered education is desirable, we don't have a GOP who is even sitting down to that table to discuss.  

Instead, we have a GOP that has been busy dismantling all public health governance, including the CDC, dismantling the department of State, and dismantling the EPA and the SEC.  None of these agencies are even remotely "socialist."  And this has been happening for 40 years. Trump is simply more transparent with it.

The GOP isn't even currently libertarian. Its anarchist. Even in a libertarian dream island, they wouldn't allow a resident to pollute the whole island.  All the landowners would get together and stop it.  One could even call this meeting a "government."

Personally, I'm leaning toward the "if they want anarchy, let's give it to them" solution, but we will see what happens in November. 

Right, I agree with most of this.

For example, "government is too expensive and often too intrusive" is a legitimate Conservative notion.  As you note, the way the GOP has pushed that notion, by unprincipled dismantling of the government (or principled in the form of making life easier for plutocrats) is disgusting and counterproductive.

But there are ways to approach that constructively, we just haven't seen them because there isn't a Conservative party.

 

[GW Hayduke 1953]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

Another poster brought up SK's approach, suggesting that "they have shown us exactly how to do this in a democratic society".  I responded to that. Be best. 

Its cool. Be better.

Instead of succumbing to a desire to masturbate fallaciously, stop yourself.

 

Remember that if SK and other countries can successfully trace, the US can also, and it has nothing to do with "visions of American Democracy" and everything to do with incompetent leadership. 

Edited April 26, 2020 by GW Hayduke

[HornOnTheBayou 8939]

2 hours ago, GW Hayduke said:

Contact tracing won’t require Nancy Pelosi to see your sex dolls credit card purchases

 

What if you used a credit card to pay for a Nancy Pelosi sex doll? Asking for Hugo.

[TXSG8R 3362]

1 hour ago, EMAWesome said:

Since when has not needing something prevented the federal government from trying to get it?  And you would actually trust that government would not have all this information filed away somewhere in safekeeping before it got purged? This idea sounds to me like the Coronavirus crisis version of the Patriot Act.

The federal government absolutely has your data already. Hell, even local cops use shit like stingray constantly to invade your privacy. Private companies are even worse. You don’t flip your shit when google uses all your info to figure out you want a toaster and starts advertising it to you, but using it to slow down a pandemic?  Outrageous!

[Message Board User 12395]

 

[DDD Dad 14344]

3 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

 I’m confused why you’re referring to that type of conservatism as big C conservative, not small c conservative.

Este.

Think Nicene Creed and catholic v. Catholic.

[UDontKnow 10447]

Current death toll has surpassed 55K: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Recall that it's the weekend and some states and localities will not get full numbers until the week starts. Hopefully the peak is reached in the next 10 days or so. What are the chances that this pandemic would hit America during the worst presidency to date in history?

[TXSG8R 3362]

23 minutes ago, UDontKnow said:

Current death toll has surpassed 55K: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Recall that it's the weekend and some states and localities will not get full numbers until the week starts. Hopefully the peak is reached in the next 10 days or so. What are the chances that this pandemic would hit America during the worst presidency to date in history?

Well we can only ensure one of those things doesn't happen.  

[DixonHur 11342]

34 minutes ago, UDontKnow said:

Current death toll has surpassed 55K: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Recall that it's the weekend and some states and localities will not get full numbers until the week starts. Hopefully the peak is reached in the next 10 days or so. What are the chances that this pandemic would hit America during the worst presidency to date in history?

Anything under 200,000 means Trump is doing a fantastic job.

[Pancho 44861]

So the same people protesting for states to re-open will be the same ones who support Republicans and Trump trying to cancel or postpone the election in November because it’s “not safe” amirite?

[UDontKnow 10447]

1 minute ago, Pancho said:

So the same people protesting for states to re-open will be the same ones who support Republicans and Trump trying to cancel or postpone the election in November because it’s “not safe” amirite?

How do I get a magic crystal ball like yours?

[Aqua Buddha 14598]

[BrickHorn 18251]

1 hour ago, UDontKnow said:

What are the chances that this pandemic would hit America during the worst presidency to date in history?

Much better than hitting during any given competent presidency, actually.

[gmr548 16584]

10 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

@EMAWesome doxxed.

[Bama Chick 28596]

When you see it.....

[Nivek 16946]

37 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

45th President,  5-4 = 1,  5+4 = 9.  that is 19 Sheep.  Wake up.

[JimmyJames 12271]

20 hours ago, Anastasis said:

100% agree. They engaged private industry early to scale testing capacity. We bottlenecked the process through the cdc and fda sops. 

Yeah that and the fact that trump doesn’t want to test. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

5 hours ago, GW Hayduke said:

Its cool. Be better.

Instead of succumbing to a desire to masturbate fallaciously, stop yourself.

 

Remember that if SK and other countries can successfully trace, the US can also, and it has nothing to do with "visions of American Democracy" and everything to do with incompetent leadership. 

Nah, Ansastasis apparently believes the US is totally incompetent. 

And with his main man Trump in charge, he’s actually right about that.