CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

There are only a few ways this could be handled worse by national leadership and that’s the real tragedy. 

[hookemATL 11911]

4 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

There are only a few ways this could be handled worse by national leadership and that’s the real tragedy. 

Perhaps if we had elected an inanimate carbon rod or something. Although I find it hard to believe the rod wouldn’t be better as well...

[cactusflinthead 27604]

13 minutes ago, hookemATL said:

Perhaps if we had elected an inanimate carbon rod or something. Although I find it hard to believe the rod wouldn’t be better as well...

Planty the potted plant 

[DixonHur 11387]

24 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

There are only a few ways this could be handled worse by national leadership and that’s the real tragedy. 

I disagree.  I don't think there's any way this could have been handled worse.

Even doing nothing would have been better.

[lemonlime 5503]

I disagree.  I don't think there's any way this could have been handled worse.
Even doing nothing would have been better.

This. It’s as though the president is trying to do damage. He lied about what’s going on, lied about testing, pitted the states against each other, stopped hard hit areas from obtaining ventilators and PPE, encouraged governors to open without testing, never actually got adequate testing despite repeatedly lying about it being in place, and as a kicker, encouraged armed “protestors” who are protesting that other people aren’t risking their lives so they can get a haircut.

If you were trying to destroy the country, I’m not sure what you would do differently than that.

[WhatTheBuck 28801]

1 hour ago, TXSG8R said:

Yea, we have O-mart here, essentially the same thing. I had to run in there last week, they have a security guard posted at the door and large signs all around the entrance stating masks are mandatory. Guard won’t let you past without one. The store has them available for people that show up without one. I wish the rest of the stores around here would follow suit. 

Pick your chain but I was saying the other day that Kroger should have a shitload of masks made with the Kroger logo printed across the front and hand one out for free to every unmasked shopper who wants to enter their store. It's a public service and a lot of free advertising. 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13587]

Crises are prime money-making opportunities for GOP leadership and their donor class. In the short term they get a one-step back, two-steps forward bounce from crisis to bailout, and in the long term they parlay the disaster they played the larger role in creating/exacerbating into a "see? government can't do anything right" talking point their idiot base swallows hook, line, and sinker.

[Guest Lobo]

7 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Pick your chain but I was saying the other day that Kroger should have a shitload of masks made with the Kroger logo printed across the front and hand one out for free to every unmasked shopper who wants to enter their store. It's a public service and a lot of free advertising. 

I wear a mask whenever I walk into a Kroger's because the place reeks of shitty meat.  I digress  

That is a good point though and I'm surprised more places aren't doing that.  With all the creativity in making at home masks and all the other clever shit stores are doing with their signage and the funny stickers on the floor to remind you to stay six feet away, but nobody is doing what you described with masks/logos.  If HEB or Home Depot wanted 500k of them, any manufacturer would stop what they are doing and make them in just a few days.  I've even been disappointed in the lack of funny messages on people's masks.  I figured here in South Austin somebody would come up with something clever.  Somebody also needs to make a damn mask that you can wear with sunglasses without getting them all fogged over.  

[WhatTheBuck 28801]

I'd kind of like to get a mask with this pattern on it:

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

39 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

I disagree.  I don't think there's any way this could have been handled worse.

Even doing nothing would have been better.

I mean, if Trump was advocating for everyone to go out and infect as many people as possible to get to herd immunity, that would be worse.

[wildcat09 29410]

45 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

I disagree.  I don't think there's any way this could have been handled worse.

Even doing nothing would have been better.

Yup. It’s a very bad thing to say the states have to fend for themselves due to your own political calculation that being seen as responsible for the inevitably insufficient response would hurt you. It’s another thing entirely to say that, then act to impede the response by states run by Democrats and funnel vitally needed emergency supplies to your friends for resale at a huge markup.

I think the only way this could’ve been handled “worse” is if they started intentionally infecting Democrats with covid. But they’re supporting and boosting the tiny reopen protests In blue states, which are frequently led in many cases by white supremacists, which will have the same result. 

[4th&Five 41591]

get this

 

Edited May 4, 2020 by 4th&Five

[DixonHur 11387]

19 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I mean, if Trump was advocating for everyone to go out and infect as many people as possible to get to herd immunity, that would be worse.

Are you living under the impression that he hasn't?

[4th&Five 41591]

Yeah, that’s pretty much our strategy now. We put a few weeks of effort in and we have a little testing but it’s just too much effort (money) and we’re pretty bored so back to work. Sacrifice the poor, sick and unlucky. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

6 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Are you living under the impression that he hasn't?

Right, but he’s not overtly doing it as a matter of policy.  Like imagine if the CDC guidelines were to say fuck it and shoot for herd immunity.  That would be worse.  

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

7 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

Yeah, that’s pretty much our strategy now. We put a few weeks of effort in and we have a little testing but it’s just too much effort (money) and we’re pretty bored so back to work. Sacrifice the poor, sick and unlucky. 

The dark side of this strategy is how it will undermine the efforts globally to contain the virus.  We’re basically an incubator now for a global holocaust that will ravage third world countries over the years to come.  
 

Or we could try to contain the virus, nah Bubba needs a haircut. 

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

Quote

“On Jan. 23, I was told that there could be a virus coming in but it was of no real import,” Mr. Trump said. “In other words, it wasn’t, ‘Oh, we’ve got to do something, we’ve got to do something.’ It was a brief conversation, and it was only on Jan. 23. Shortly thereafter, I closed the country to China. We had 23 people in the room and I was the only one in the room who wanted to close it down.”

wait, wut?

[Red Five 40895]

“On Jan. 23, I was told that there could be a virus coming in but it was of no real import,” Mr. Trump said. “In other words, it wasn’t, ‘Oh, we’ve got to do something, we’ve got to do something.’ It was a brief conversation, and it was only on Jan. 23. Shortly thereafter, I closed the country to China. We had 23 people in the room and I was the only one in the room who wanted to close it down.”

wait, wut?

A whole lot of lies in that paragraph.

[NWBuck 8587]

 

[cactusflinthead 27604]

35 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Yup. It’s a very bad thing to say the states have to fend for themselves due to your own political calculation that being seen as responsible for the inevitably insufficient response would hurt you. It’s another thing entirely to say that, then act to impede the response by states run by Democrats and funnel vitally needed emergency supplies to your friends for resale at a huge markup.

I think the only way this could’ve been handled “worse” is if they started intentionally infecting Democrats with covid. But they’re supporting and boosting the tiny reopen protests In blue states, which are frequently led in many cases by white supremacists, which will have the same result. 

Gov. Hogan would like a word. It isn't limited to D states. He had get his tests under guard to ensure that they wouldn't get hijacked. There is a 100% chance if they are aware of an arrival of PPE or tests, the Kush has his eye on getting them. 

It's bad enough that the states aren't getting help. But, actually stealing from them is a whole nother level of shitty. 

[Mapache 1117]

 

[Mo Horn 8855]

7 hours ago, Wanker Bob said:

NY/NJ/CT has had a drop while the rest of America has had a steady rise. That's why it looks like a plateau

 

[Patrick Bateman 3933]

3 hours ago, Gap03 said:

Based on Worldometers, Texas has a fatality rate of around 2.8%.  If you do a sort, most of the states under 3% (of which there are around 10) are R strongholds, which makes it seem like they may not be counting some deaths that other states would count.  It looks like the average fatality rate for states without huge outbreaks (e.g., NY, MI, LA, etc.) is in the 4-5% range.   

Correct. If you look at the top 15 states in cases confirmed, only one has a fatality rate of under 3 -- Texas at 2.7%. Next highest?  Florida, who has been beset by allegations of fudging numbers and not ignoring data.  They're at 3.8%!  Texas is also only putting out numbers from one place and aren't allowing county or city ME departments to put out their own numbers.  There should be a ton of scrutiny how some of these states are collecting and classifying data and it should start with states like Florida, Tennessee, and absolutely Texas.

[Gatorubet 30320]

Pretty sure this was also the Catholic Church's opinion of Galileo.

ArmyBrat knew Pipe Urban VIII. You’re no Pope Urban VIII...

[Gatorubet 30320]

Worked for the founders.

Daniel Shays out front shoulda explained it to you.

[Anastasis 23487]

19 minutes ago, Mo Horn said:

 

These data don't really tell us anything about the impact of re-opening, but they do suggest that we shouldn't be doing it. 

[4th&Five 41591]

Interesting?

 

[SubliminalHorn 6811]

9 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

Interesting?

 

Oh you know, just a wannabe dictator alluding to the idea that the legislative branch not being necessary. Just another Monday in the shithole trumpville. 

Edited May 4, 2020 by SubliminalHorn

[DixonHur 11387]

17 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

Interesting?

 

So, according to Worldometers, there have been 38 million tests worldwide...now, granted, I'm no math whiz, but I think 6.5 million is LESS than 31.5 million.

Can anyone confirm?

Edited May 4, 2020 by DixonHur

[wildcat09 29410]

9 minutes ago, SubliminalHorn said:

Oh you know, just a wannabe dictator alluding to the idea that the legislative branch not being necessary. Just another Monday in the shithole trumpville. 

And yet, Pelosi seems to be doing everything she can to help him make the case.

[Anastasis 23487]

5 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

So, according to Worldometers, there have been 38 million tests worldwide...now, granted, I'm no math whiz, but I think 6.5 million is LESS than 31.5 million.

Can anyone confirm?

Without looking it up Russia and Italy and Spain and France, combined, likely have more tests.  Russia is near 5MM alone. 

[Anastasis 23487]

Here's the chart.  Russia just over 4MM. 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

2 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

And yet, Pelosi seems to be doing everything she can to help him make the case.

Or maybe she thinks it might not be such a bad thing if it rips through Congress. Demographics and stuff.  

[4th&Five 41591]

would anyone be surprised if trump didn't know what combined meant?

[conVINCEd 21469]

3 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

would anyone be surprised if trump didn't know what combined meant?

It means whatever he wants it to mean at any given moment.

[Guest Lobo]

3 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

would anyone be surprised if trump didn't know what combined meant?

It would be a tremendous surprise.  I mean laugh all you want at his vocabulary, but the average native speaking adult has an active vocabulary of 20,000 words and a passive of 40,000.  He is probably running at about 50-60% of those two numbers (and lexicographers have counted by sampling hours of his speeches) and he managed to build a global brand and become President of the United States.  That's pretty fucking impressive

When he said, "I know words.  I have the best words."  You all laughed.  But he was trying to tell us something.  He never said he knew A LOT of words, or MANY words, he just said  he knows words and he has the best ones of them."  He was being totally honest with us, for once.  He knows SOME words, they are not that many in number, but the small group is the BEST.....and that's why he sticks with them.  You don't go out chasing new words to learn and use, when you already know some and they are the best.  So there!

[BrickHorn 18286]

1 minute ago, Lobo said:

It would be a tremendous surprise.  I mean laugh all you want at his vocabulary, but the average native speaking adult has an active vocabulary of 20,000 words and a passive of 40,000.  He is probably running at about 50-60% of those two numbers (and lexicographers have counted by sampling hours of his speeches) and he managed to build a global brand and become President of the United States.  That's pretty fucking impressive

When he said, "I know words.  I have the best words."  You all laughed.  But he was trying to tell us something.  He never said he knew A LOT of words, or MANY words, he just said  he knows words and he has the best ones of them."  He was being totally honest with us, for once.  He knows SOME words, they are not that many in number, but the small group is the BEST.....and that's why he sticks with them.  You don't go out chasing new words to learn and use, when you already know some and they are the best.  So there!

As Sam Harris says, Trump is an evil Chauncey Gardner.  He has no grand strategy. He has no metacognition. He’s just an idiot who instinctively runs a simple program over and over again, and that program happens to resonate with enough morons to make the idiot rich and successful.  

[Underdog 28776]

14 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

would anyone be surprised if trump didn't know what combined meant?

No but he knows what combo means. 

[Foosters 17889]

 

Meanwhile, over on the DT thread, the prevailing sentiment seems to be that the exact opposite will happen.

[Lagunamadre 1975]

16 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

It means whatever he wants it to mean at any given moment.

This brought up memories of my favorite description of Houston from Hunter S. Thompson. 

"Houston is a cruel, crazy town on a filthy river in east Texas with no zoning laws and a culture of sex, money and violence. It's a shabby, sprawling metropolis ruled by brazen women, crooked cops and super-rich pansexual cowboys who live by the code of the west—which can mean just about anything you need it to mean, in a pinch."''
 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

14 minutes ago, Foosters said:

Meanwhile, over on the DT thread, the prevailing sentiment seems to be that the exact opposite will happen.

The Trump Administration must have read the DT thread and recalibrated their estimate with more willful ignorance added among the population.

[cactusflinthead 27604]

 

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

23 minutes ago, Foosters said:

 

Meanwhile, over on the DT thread, the prevailing sentiment seems to be that the exact opposite will happen.

DT thread filled with the common clay of the new west.

[RomaVicta 30026]

5 hours ago, Dnaguy said:

 

 

They won’t admit it because his voters identify with The victimhood Trump spouts.

Why are all his most passionate supporters generally middle-aged / old white people? Why is the religious right so much in his camp? The rich?

They identify as victims. 

• Middle aged / old whites are so used to getting their way, so used to being born on 2nd base that when shit goes sideways it has to be the ‘others’ fault. Whatever that is. Deep state, immigrants, minorities, China, etc.
• The religious right has been on the victim trip for way longer. But their 1980’s-today dance with the Republican Party has really amped it up. No prayer in school, abortion, falling church attendance, etc has all been due to the colluding forces of the devil, the secular left, feminists, Jews, Muslims, and the communists.
• The rich are victims because their money is always under attack. They must at all times defend it from increased taxes or increased costs due to government actions. Much of those actions are due to the larger amount of the less worthy folks who aren’t of the same ilk as them. They view government / the public sector for those who aren’t smart enough to make it in the private sector. They view anyone not rich as somehow less than because the only really objective score in life is how much $ you have. That’s your worth.

There’s a lot of overlap between groups, I know.

But if they all are to admit that he’s not up to the task, then they’d be admitting that the reason their life sucks (well not for the rich.... they’d have to admit they were wrong which may be worse for people with egos that large) is because they aren’t up to the task.

 

There's a lot of truth in this. For decades, as we've become a self-therapy culture, producing your own personal victimology has been as important as your CV. Those classes and types who never really experienced victimization evidently felt either left out or (often rightfully as a group) blamed.

It seems to have diminished the ideal of individuality. Even the defenders of that myth seem to want to band together to talk about how victimized they are by the collective. So scared are they that they think they need assault rifles to hold off criticism and discourse. 

Racial pride is a good arena to look at. To me this starts with a good movement: Black Pride. American blacks were in a state of being where they wanted to be white. Black little girls chose white dolls. Black Pride seeks to counteract that. Good.

Then, like with Black Lives Matter which addresses another specific problem, other racial groups who never thought about being ashamed of their race decided that they needed to be actively proud of it. I'm no more prould of my race than I am of my gender or the place I was born. They're facts and bestow neither esteem nor shame. I don't have to argue that White Lives Matter or All Lives Matter because there is no opposition evident to those propositions. Blacks were getting killed where the rest of us were not.

Maybe things will find some sort of balance. Everything is way out of whack today. Our national representative is perfectly chosen for that specific role. We are too narcissistic, blame-avoiding, and vindictive. Again, like our national representative, we can see that that combination of flaws is difficult to overcome.

[RomaVicta 30026]

3 hours ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

Crises are prime money-making opportunities for GOP leadership and their donor class. In the short term they get a one-step back, two-steps forward bounce from crisis to bailout, and in the long term they parlay the disaster they played the larger role in creating/exacerbating into a "see? government can't do anything right" talking point their idiot base swallows hook, line, and sinker.

Excellent post. 

I no longer credit that criminal organization with any moral standard whatsoever. I would not be the least surprised to learn that someone in the GOP had done the calculus of Covid's impact on the poor: Yes, it kills poor, stupid white people which is bad, but what if it kills more black people than poor white people? Is that a net gain for the Grand Old Party?

If I can think of it, they surely can.

[RomaVicta 30026]

2 hours ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

on Jan. 23. Shortly thereafter, I closed the country to China. We had 23 people in the room and I was the only one in the room who wanted to close it down.”

He would have had to overcome even more resistance if he'd waited until Jan. 24 when there would have been 24 people in the room resisting his honest, stable brilliance.

Let's make sure there are plenty of burs on the iron cage strapped to the deck of the North Atlantic-bound freighter.

[Bozo_Casanova 26570]

2 hours ago, Anastasis said:

These data don't really tell us anything about the impact of re-opening, but they do suggest that we shouldn't be doing it. 

Huh. Who's "we" and what mechanisms do "we" use to collectively do things and agree in good faith to take action together? Is it the stuff that the burn it down guys burned down?

Edited May 4, 2020 by Bozo_Casanova

[Patrick Bateman 3933]

I'm skeptical if this is just pushing expectations and goal posts so far ahead, Donny can try and claim victory when we go over 100k.

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Not even a plague could bring this country together.  Nope, we have the pro-plague people protesting in the streets against the anti-plague scientists that want them not to die.  

[Anastasis 23487]

5 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Huh. Who's "we" and what mechanisms do "we" use to collectively do things and agree in good faith to take action together? Is it the stuff that the burn it down guys burned down?

Stop being such a whiney doucher Bozo. It's really an unfortunate look you've taken on moreso recently.

"We" would be the local government entities that are providing guidance to local businesses under their jurisdiction.