CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk

[GRHorn 105]

10 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

One of your examples isn’t showing up for me for some reason—gray box. But I read the longer spoilered one and it is a counterpoint and a discussion that would be nice to have. I do think that we (the country) needs to continue a process of lifting restrictions but openly and honestly. What the positive and negative implications will be, what safeguards will be implemented (if any), and what recourse there will be should everything go south. For example, the case in Utah where the two businesses told their employees to return to work even though they were sick resulting in more than 68 cases. Were those employees provided with health care? Sick leave? The rules for liability have been changing during this pandemic, so will anyone be upfront and honest enough to state “you’re on your own?”

It (the various local, state, and especially  fed response) is too checkerboard, too obfuscated, and too poorly managed at the moment to have a sense of, “okay, this sucks but we will get through it” right now. We probably will, but the phrase ‘attitude reflects leadership,’ isn’t helping inspire confidence if you know what I mean. 

 

The invisible pandemic
Many countries (and members of their press media) have marvelled at Sweden’s relaxed strategy in the face of the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic: schools and most workplaces have remained open, and police officers were not checking one’s errands in the street. Severe critics have described it as Sweden sacrificing its (elderly) citizens to quickly reach herd immunity.1 The death toll has surpassed our three closest neighbours, Denmark, Norway, and Finland, but the mortality remains lower than in the UK, Spain, and Belgium.2
It has become clear that a hard lockdown does not protect old and frail people living in care homes—a population the lockdown was designed to protect.3 Neither does it decrease mortality from COVID-19, which is evident when comparing the UK’s experience with that of other European countries.
PCR testing and some straight- forward assumptions indicate that, as of April 29, 2020, more than half a million people in Stockholm county, Sweden, which is about 20–25% of the population, have been infected (Hansson D, Swedish Public Health Agency, personal communication). 98–99% of these people are probably unaware or uncertain of having had the infection; they either had symptoms that were severe, but not severe enough for them to go to a hospital and get tested, or no symptoms at all. Serology testing is now supporting these assumptions.4
These facts have led me to the following conclusions. Everyone will be exposed to severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2, and most people will become infected. COVID-19 is spreading like wildfire in all countries, but we do not see it—it almost always spreads from younger people with no or weak symptoms to other people who will also have mild symptoms. This is the real pandemic,
but it goes on beneath the surface, and is probably at its peak now in many European countries. There is very little we can do to prevent this spread: a lockdown might delay severe cases for a while, but once restrictions are eased, cases will reappear. I expect that when we count the number of deaths from COVID-19 in each country in 1 year from now, the figures will be similar, regardless of measures taken.
Measures to flatten the curve might have an effect, but a lockdown only pushes the severe cases into the future —it will not prevent them. Admittedly, countries have managed to slow down spread so as not to overburden health-care systems, and, yes, effective drugs that save lives might soon be developed, but this pandemic is swift, and those drugs have to be developed, tested, and marketed quickly. Much hope is put in vaccines, but they will take time, and with the unclear protective immunological response to infection, it is not certain that vaccines will be very effective.
In summary, COVID-19 is a disease that is highly infectious and spreads rapidly through society. It is often quite symptomless and might pass unnoticed, but it also causes severe disease, and even death, in a pro- portion of the population, and our most important task is not to stop spread, which is all but futile, but to concentrate on giving the unfortunate victims optimal care.
I declare no competing interests.
Johan Giesecke
johan.giesecke@ki.se

 

1 Henley J. Swedish PM warned over
‘Russian roulette-style’ Covid-19 strategy. March 23, 2020. https://www.theguardian. com/world/2020/mar/23/swedish-pm- warned-russian-roulette-covid-19-strategy- herd-immunity (accessed May 1, 2020).
2 European Centre for Disease Prevention
and Control. May 1, 2020. https://www.ecdc. europa.eu/en/geographical-distribution- 2019-ncov-cases (accessed May 1, 2020).
3 BBC. Coronavirus: Hard to prevent care home deaths, says Chris Whitty. April 22, 2020. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk- politics-52386808 (accessed May 1, 2020).
4
Hedberg K. Var femte anställd på Danderyds sjukhus har haft smittan. April 27, 2020. https://www.dn.se/sthlm/var-femte-anstalld- pa-danderyds-sjukhus-har-haft-smittan/ (accessed May 1, 2020).
 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13595]

...and that's a good thing.

 

[GRHorn 105]

26 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

She probably confused histrionic with hysterical, which has a built in etymology to the uterus.  

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/all-about-sex/201303/hysteria-and-the-strange-history-vibrators

i like that they used to prescribe horseback riding 

Edited May 7, 2020 by GRHorn

[Anastasis 23471]

Just now, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

...and that's a good thing.

Quality over quantity, imo. 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13595]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

You tell me what you are doing?

You first!

*gasp*

[Anastasis 23471]

2 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/all-about-sex/201303/hysteria-and-the-strange-history-vibrators

 But thanks to genital massage, hysteria was one of the few conditions that doctors could treat successfully

Edited May 7, 2020 by Anastasis

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13595]

4 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

 

The invisible pandemic
Many countries (and members of their press media) have marvelled at Sweden’s relaxed strategy in the face of the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic: schools and most workplaces have remained open, and police officers were not checking one’s errands in the street. Severe critics have described it as Sweden sacrificing its (elderly) citizens to quickly reach herd immunity.1 The death toll has surpassed our three closest neighbours, Denmark, Norway, and Finland, but the mortality remains lower than in the UK, Spain, and Belgium.2
It has become clear that a hard lockdown does not protect old and frail people living in care homes—a population the lockdown was designed to protect.3 Neither does it decrease mortality from COVID-19, which is evident when comparing the UK’s experience with that of other European countries.
PCR testing and some straight- forward assumptions indicate that, as of April 29, 2020, more than half a million people in Stockholm county, Sweden, which is about 20–25% of the population, have been infected (Hansson D, Swedish Public Health Agency, personal communication). 98–99% of these people are probably unaware or uncertain of having had the infection; they either had symptoms that were severe, but not severe enough for them to go to a hospital and get tested, or no symptoms at all. Serology testing is now supporting these assumptions.4
These facts have led me to the following conclusions. Everyone will be exposed to severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2, and most people will become infected. COVID-19 is spreading like wildfire in all countries, but we do not see it—it almost always spreads from younger people with no or weak symptoms to other people who will also have mild symptoms. This is the real pandemic,
but it goes on beneath the surface, and is probably at its peak now in many European countries. There is very little we can do to prevent this spread: a lockdown might delay severe cases for a while, but once restrictions are eased, cases will reappear. I expect that when we count the number of deaths from COVID-19 in each country in 1 year from now, the figures will be similar, regardless of measures taken.
Measures to flatten the curve might have an effect, but a lockdown only pushes the severe cases into the future —it will not prevent them. Admittedly, countries have managed to slow down spread so as not to overburden health-care systems, and, yes, effective drugs that save lives might soon be developed, but this pandemic is swift, and those drugs have to be developed, tested, and marketed quickly. Much hope is put in vaccines, but they will take time, and with the unclear protective immunological response to infection, it is not certain that vaccines will be very effective.
In summary, COVID-19 is a disease that is highly infectious and spreads rapidly through society. It is often quite symptomless and might pass unnoticed, but it also causes severe disease, and even death, in a pro- portion of the population, and our most important task is not to stop spread, which is all but futile, but to concentrate on giving the unfortunate victims optimal care.
I declare no competing interests.
Johan Giesecke
johan.giesecke@ki.se

 

1 Henley J. Swedish PM warned over
‘Russian roulette-style’ Covid-19 strategy. March 23, 2020. https://www.theguardian. com/world/2020/mar/23/swedish-pm- warned-russian-roulette-covid-19-strategy- herd-immunity (accessed May 1, 2020).
2 European Centre for Disease Prevention
and Control. May 1, 2020. https://www.ecdc. europa.eu/en/geographical-distribution- 2019-ncov-cases (accessed May 1, 2020).
3 BBC. Coronavirus: Hard to prevent care home deaths, says Chris Whitty. April 22, 2020. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk- politics-52386808 (accessed May 1, 2020).
4
Hedberg K. Var femte anställd på Danderyds sjukhus har haft smittan. April 27, 2020. https://www.dn.se/sthlm/var-femte-anstalld- pa-danderyds-sjukhus-har-haft-smittan/ (accessed May 1, 2020).
 

Is it me, or is the original link missing?

[GRHorn 105]

1 minute ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

Is it me, or is the original link missing?

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13595]

3 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

 But thanks to genital massage, hysteria was one of the few conditions that doctors could treat successfully

Welp, don't gotta change the gif for conversation therapy....

[Anastasis 23471]

3 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

Welp, don't gotta change the gif for conversation therapy....

I don't know anything about all that, but if some of you motherfuckers would massage your genitals more maybe we could get back to rational conversations. 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13595]

Just now, GRHorn said:

Could be my phone but I'm getting block text. Going with you're a guy who posted carrot porn.

 

*pops a wheelie outta thread*

[GRHorn 105]

3 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

Could be my phone but I'm getting block text. Going with you're a guy who posted carrot porn.

 

*pops a wheelie outta thread*

https://doi.org/10.1016/S0140-6736(20)31035-7

 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13595]

You're both better than this.

[Anastasis 23471]

4 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

You're both better than this.

I'll take Douchebag Mouth Fart for a hundred, Alex.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13595]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

I'll take Douchebag Mouth Fart for a hundred, Alex.

Exhibit A.

You're better than that.

[Anastasis 23471]

3 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

Exhibit A.

You're better than that.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8835]

Help me out here.  There's some video from an anti-vaxxer that every fucking loon on my FB feed has posted.  Something about how the virus is a plot from the government or something.  It's like they all took marching orders at once.  I'd post it here but I don't want my computer getting AIDS.

Can someone tell me what's going on here?  Why are the loons all coming out at once?

It’s called plandemic. Just watched it tonight on Vimeo. Most of it is anti faucci and how the powers get patented drugs. She claims she’s not anti vaxxer in the vid. About 20 min long

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13595]

[Anastasis 23471]

1 minute ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Just watched it tonight on Vimeo. Most of it is anti faucci and how the powers get patented drugs. She claims she’s not anti vaxxer in the vid. About 20 min long

I watched a portion of the video.  It appears to be quackery on similar level to the peak prosperity HCQ engineered virus nonsense that @RayDog keeps posting here.   

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20543]

1 hour ago, achooloco said:

Thats her at 102? God damn.

 

I'd hit it. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Bolsonaro might be handling this worse than Trump and that is also terrifying.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13595]

...cuz he's a full blown out of the closet fascist.

[Bama Chick 28596]

She probably confused histrionic with hysterical, which has a built in etymology to the uterus.  

Thanks for the unsolicited mansplaining but I know the difference.

Despite the fact that histrionics isn’t derived from uterus, who gets tagged with that pejorative more often, men or women?

The fact that we have the most emotionally unstable assholes like Trump and Lindsay Graham and Brett Kavanaugh bleeding out their screaming maws yet any woman who shows anger or passion is histrionic or too emotional to lead is absolutely sexist and everyone knows it.

But it is fun to watch you white knight for the dumbest, meanest, most worthless piece of shit that posts on this board.

Your devolution has been very entertaining.

[tx 3 putt 77663]

2 hours ago, gmr548 said:
Pretty sure he was joking... lol no.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if Trump tried to stop the election. He can't though. The date of federal elections is explicitly defined by statute. He can't do shit without Congress. House will obviously tell him to get fucked.

Elections are administered at the state level too. States with Democratic executives plus popular NE Republicans, which is all your blue states, plus WI, MI, PA, and NC, would vote and Trump would get smooth buttfucked in the EC. Like not a single vote.

 

states can tell the president they believe their election process is been compromised (Russian hackers). He can then postpone it. 

[Anastasis 23471]

5 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

Despite the fact that histrionics isn’t derived from uterus, who gets tagged with that pejorative more often, men or women?

I can't cite the epidemiology off the top of my head.  But will concede that the histrionic personality disorder is probably more frequently diagnosed among women.

7 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

The fact that we have the most emotionally unstable assholes like Trump and Lindsay Graham and Brett Kavanaugh bleeding out their screaming maws yet any woman who shows anger or passion is histrionic or too emotional to lead is absolutely sexist and everyone knows it.

My opinion re: the Kavanaugh's disqualifying behavior during his senate confirmation is documented in that thread. My opinion of Lindsey as well. But don't let any of those things get in the way of a good straw man. 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13595]

11 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I can't cite the epidemiology off the top of my head. 

Looks like Big Brains Brad done fucked himself all mind...jack...shit...grey poupon motherfucker....

[UDontKnow 10451]

45 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Bolsonaro might be handling this worse than Trump and that is also terrifying.

Trying to figure out how that is humanly possible is making my head explode.

[GRHorn 105]

6 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

Thanks for the unsolicited mansplaining but I know the difference.

Despite the fact that histrionics isn’t derived from uterus, who gets tagged with that pejorative more often, men or women?

The fact that we have the most emotionally unstable assholes like Trump and Lindsay Graham and Brett Kavanaugh bleeding out their screaming maws yet any woman who shows anger or passion is histrionic or too emotional to lead is absolutely sexist and everyone knows it.

But it is fun to watch you white knight for the dumbest, meanest, most worthless piece of shit that posts on this board.
 

Dumbest? Hardly  

Meanest? That’s hard for me to believe considering I’m probably the most insulted person on this forum. Look at how much rep you got for an extended post mostly insulting me sexually. 😂 

Most worthless piece of shit? Sorry, that’s Jimmy James. 

[Anastasis 23471]

12 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Meanest? That’s hard for me to believe considering I’m probably the most insulted person on this forum. Look at how much rep you got for an extended post mostly insulting me sexually. 😂 

Psychology is a construct of the patriarchy, you fucking pig. 

Which does raise the question that if recognizing histrionics when you see it is sexist, I wonder if recognizing narcissism is as well? 

[Tuco 5084]

On 3/6/2020 at 8:11 AM, Tuco said:

Something to keep in mind with China: they quarantined 50 million people to slow the spread.  50 million people, basically on house arrest.  In the US, people freak out if you talk about cancelling sporting events.  With our culture, there will need to be a lot of pain before we are willing to take drastic measures. 

I posted this two months ago.  About a month ago, I thought I was wrong.  I thought our population was capable of watching what was going on with Italy, and then New York, would take this shit seriously.  It seems like we did for a while.  But that limited success has engendered disproportionate arrogance.  Now, as a red state resident, I just have to hang tight and wait for the predictable.  

[bolverk 29780]

Looks like this thread got drunk last night. Jesus, reading through the last couple of pages was a real shit show.

Anywho, research is showing that NYC was the primary gateway for most of America's cases (60-65%) and roughly 70% for Texas.

Travel From New York City Seeded Wave of U.S. Outbreaks https://nyti.ms/3cdCeum

(No paywall)

[GRHorn 105]

8 minutes ago, Tuco said:

I posted this two months ago.  About a month ago, I thought I was wrong.  I thought our population was capable of watching what was going on with Italy, and then New York, would take this shit seriously.  It seems like we did for a while.  But that limited success has engendered disproportionate arrogance.  Now, as a red state resident, I just have to hang tight and wait for the predictable.  

California is supposed to open further tomorrow, so it’s not just red states there, hoss. We are a wild population as whole, relative to the rest of the world.   

[DDD Dad 14365]

Looks like this thread got drunk last night. Jesus, reading through the last couple of pages was a real shit show.
Anywho, research is showing that NYC was the primary gateway for most of America's cases (60-65%) and roughly 70% for Texas.
Travel From New York City Seeded Wave of U.S. Outbreaks https://nyti.ms/3cdCeum
(No paywall)

I take it you haven’t visited the DT thread yet this morning.

[TexEx15 17577]

This is a good thread.  

We jumped out of the plane.  We pulled the chute.  We got to about 1,000 feet above the ground and cut the chute away.  Now we wait for impact.

[Anastasis 23471]

7 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

I take it you haven’t visited the DT thread yet this morning.

That one is more cluster A, this one more cluster B. 

[DDD Dad 14365]

That one is more cluster A, this one more cluster B. 

Looks like both sides are covered, amirite?

[Nice Guy Eddie 13536]

11 hours ago, Message Board User said:

I don't think anybody predicted an Axl Rose vs Steve Mnuchin twitter war a few months ago.

 

This isn't the Twitter feud that we need, it's the Twitter feud we deserve.

[bolverk 29780]

10 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

I take it you haven’t visited the DT thread yet this morning.

It's bad there too, seeing that someone posted a Q anon affiliated YouTube video on the "NO POLITICS!!!1!!" thread.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13536]

14 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

He’s going to kill many of his voters.  Looking at recent polling, Republicans are mostly oblivious to the threat, which is by design.

 

In the era of Trump, almost every topic is not politicized. The most amazing is the large sporting event opinion. I predict many deaths for SEC fans by late Fall.

 

When's the last time any of us attended an important game where it wasn't a cattle herd in or out of the game. 

[tantric superman 4668]

I'll probably change my mind by midday, but I'm thinking I'm the kind of person who simply can't deal with anymore covid talk unless it's directly related to the best practices I can undertake individually to avoid the virus while there is still even a small chance that medical services will be overwhelmed.  So from here on in, I think I need to limit my covid intake to scanning the Dallas Morning News hard copy.

I'll leave all the stratergy talk to the generals. 

Godspeed.

 

[TornACL 7738]

22 minutes ago, TexEx15 said:

This is a good thread.  

We jumped out of the plane.  We pulled the chute.  We got to about 1,000 feet above the ground and cut the chute away.  Now we wait for impact.

We made a deal with the government that we'd pause our lives for a while as they got their shit together. 

Now we're arguing among ourselves about whether or not to open back up, but what has the government done with these eight weeks we gave them? 

An incremental increase in testing. That appears to be it. So virtually nothing. 

Instead of arguing amongst ourselves, everyone should be mad at everyone in elected offices. It shouldn't be a political issue, but we're all fucking morons. 

And by politicizing the issue, elected officials can continue to hide from their duty to serve us. 

[SaucyJack 3504]

3 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

I'll probably change my mind by midday, but I'm thinking I'm the kind of person who simply can't deal with anymore covid talk unless it's directly related to the best practices I can undertake individually to avoid the virus while there is still even a small chance that medical services will be overwhelmed.  So from here on in, I think I need to limit my covid intake to scanning the Dallas Morning News hard copy.

I'll leave all the stratergy talk to the generals. 

Godspeed.

 

they’redeadjim.gif

[TXSG8R 3362]

9 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

In the era of Trump, almost every topic is not politicized. The most amazing is the large sporting event opinion. I predict many deaths for SEC fans by late Fall.

 

When's the last time any of us attended an important game where it wasn't a cattle herd in or out of the game. 

Yea, no shit. It should be super easy to try get some hammered redneck to follow social distancing when he can barely see straight.  The phone videos should be awesome though. 

[gmr548 16617]

states can tell the president they believe their election process is been compromised (Russian hackers). He can then postpone it. 

He absolutely cannot postpone the election without Congress. Using Republican legislators to pick electors is theoretically possible though, I'm not going to pretend I know what laws states have on the books.

[gmr548 16617]

I'll probably change my mind by midday, but I'm thinking I'm the kind of person who simply can't deal with anymore covid talk unless it's directly related to the best practices I can undertake individually to avoid the virus while there is still even a small chance that medical services will be overwhelmed.  So from here on in, I think I need to limit my covid intake to scanning the Dallas Morning News hard copy.
I'll leave all the stratergy talk to the generals. 
Godspeed.
 

Probably a good strategy. It's a fruitless debate at this point. Though print newspapers might increase your risk because I'm pretty sure reading one automatically increases your age to 60+

[DDD Dad 14365]

He absolutely cannot postpone the election without Congress. Using Republican legislators to pick electors is theoretically possible though, I'm not going to pretend I know what laws states have on the books.

You assume the rule of law applies.

[Francisco 2.0 32432]

https://lasvegassun.com/news/2020/may/06/admin-shelves-cdc-guide-to-reopening-country/

 

Quote

A set of detailed documents created by the nation's top disease investigators meant to give step-by-step advice to local leaders deciding when and how to reopen public places such as mass transit, day care centers and restaurants during the still-raging pandemic has been shelved by the Trump administration.

The 17-page report by a Centers for Disease Control and Prevention team, titled “Guidance for Implementing the Opening Up America Again Framework,” was researched and written to help faith leaders, business owners, educators and state and local officials as they begin to reopen.

 

Quote

It was supposed to be published last Friday, but agency scientists were told the guidance “would never see the light of day,” according to a CDC official. The official was not authorized to talk to reporters and spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity.

The AP obtained a copy from a second federal official who was not authorized to release it. The guidance was described in AP stories last week, prior to the White House decision to shelve it.

 

Quote

Traditionally, it's been the CDC's role to give the public and local officials guidance and science-based information during public health crises. During this one, however, the CDC has not had a regular, pandemic-related news briefing in nearly two months. CDC Director Dr. Robert Redfield has been a member of the White House coronavirus task force, but largely absent from public appearances.

The dearth of real-time, public information from the nation’s experts has struck many current and former government health officials as dangerous.

 

 

Quote

The rejected reopening guidance was described by one of the federal officials as a touchstone document that was to be used as a blueprint for other groups inside the CDC who are creating the same type of instructional materials for other facilities.

The guidance contained detailed advice for making site-specific decisions related to reopening schools, restaurants, summer camps, churches, day care centers and other institutions. It had been widely shared within CDC, and included detailed “decision trees,” flow charts to be used by local officials to think through different scenarios. One page of the document can be found on the CDC website via search engines, but it did not appear to be linked to any other CDC pages.

 

 

 

[bolverk 29780]

Sickening 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13536]

21 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

https://lasvegassun.com/news/2020/may/06/admin-shelves-cdc-guide-to-reopening-country/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't know what you're writing about but Gov. Greg tells me the opposite.  Data and Doctors. 

 

 

Edited May 7, 2020 by Nice Guy Eddie

[Grandioso 2592]

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/what-are-we-doing-doctors-are-fed-conspiracies-ravaging-ers-n1201446

Quote

At the end of another long shift treating coronavirus patients, Dr. Hadi Halazun opened his Facebook page to find a man insisting to him that "no one's dying" and that the coronavirus is "fake news" drummed up by the news media.

Hadi tried to engage and explain his firsthand experience with the virus. In reply, another user insinuated that he wasn't a real doctor, saying pictures from his profile showing him at concerts and music festivals proved it.

 

"I told them: 'I am a real doctor. There are 200 people in my hospital's ICU,'" said Halazun, a cardiologist in New York. "And they said, 'Give me your credentials.' I engaged with them, and they kicked me off their wall."

"I left work and I felt so deflated. I let it get to me."