CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk

[Bullneck 18617]

1 hour ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

This bwoke my widdle head.

 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/without-a-vaccine-herd-immunity-wont-save-us/

Yeah, I read about that like 6 weeks ago.  But my Facebook friends seem to think that if the virus floats around in the air long enough you just get magically immune.  

[ChiTownDoc 20840]

Fall/winter is going to be an absolute bloodbath in many places.  Someone post a winter is coming pic.  And I don’t think anyone will find any alarmist posts from me on this site.  The cake is baked.  We have no herd immunity and the fight against C19 has become political.  No vaccine for the masses until 2021.  The far right clowns are so fucked.  The rest of us are just fucked.  

[Woland 695]

Remember the wall? I’m guessing the same people who are accusing others of living in fear because they choose to stay at home, keep social distance, and wear a mask are the same people who demand a wall to keep out the hordes of rapists and murderers from the south. And don’t forget liberals, Democrats, socialists, black presidents, women who wear hijabs, and congressmen with Puerto Rican backgrounds.

[Chuckie Finster 22253]

Really, really excited to have a baby due in August. Gonna be a real fun time this fall.

[Bozo_Casanova 25509]

23 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

No clear to me which line you want to entertain some action on?

The prop I want action on is any upcoming nicotine patch and/or inhaled vaporized nicotine salts study.

[Anastasis 23191]

1 minute ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

The prop I want action on is any upcoming nicotine patch and/or inhaled vaporized nicotine salts study.

There are some signals there to be explored, but I have also taken back to sneaking smokes on the patio during quarantine, so I may just be biased.  I am also interested in any bath salts angle, mostly for the lulz. 

[MrBig 5101]

2 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

Y’all watch out for flying pigs.

 

Mitch is looking for someone to blame since the Kentucky unemployment rate is getting close to 40%. Pigs might be flying, but if they fall from the sky I wouldn’t doubt they would be infected with Covid-19.

[Bullneck 18617]

9 hours ago, HenryJames said:

Our plan is in a binder.

Hmm.  Interesting.  So there was a plan left by Obama after all.  But it wouldn't work.  When did you know it wouldn't work?  Seems like Trump would have been screaming that at the top of his lungs back in January.

They have a plan, and it works (except for about 70,000ish people).  Is that new?  Like this week new, in mid May?  What does it say?  Leave it to the governors?

 

[Bullneck 18617]

Just now, MrBig said:

Mitch is looking for someone to blame since the Kentucky unemployment rate is getting close to 40%. Pigs might be flying, but if they fall from the sky I wouldn’t doubt they would be infected with Covid-19.

Pigs are dying, not flying.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/14/business/coronavirus-farmers-killing-pigs.html

 

[Todd Gack 405]

9 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Really, really excited to have a baby due in August. Gonna be a real fun time this fall.

July 30th here.  Already put a deposit down to start daycare Nov 1st... annndd it's time for more bourbon

[WhatTheBuck 28574]

5 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

They have a plan, and it works (except for about 70,000ish people).  Is that new?  Like this week new, in mid May?  What does it say?  Leave it to the governors?

On which page does it instruct you to call the pandemic a hoax? Is that page one or two?

[Bama Chick 28595]

More about the quick test from Abbott -

[UpperWestside 5990]

33 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Really, really excited to have a baby due in August. Gonna be a real fun time this fall.

Make sure GRHorn isn't in that delivery room. 

[triplehorn 2664]

4 hours ago, PsychMike said:

From early on in this pandemic, when people started to discuss HCQ with or without AZ, they would cite the known safety data. But what they failed to acknowledge or understand, is that that safety data was not reported from Covid-19 patients. Yes, there can be real differences in toxicity. It's what we in the clinical pharmacy world refer to as drug-disease interactions. I didn't predict problems, I was concerned that people were overlooking potential problems that had not been studied under controlled conditions. Re

Fast forward to 

"The QT interval in patients with COVID-19 treated with hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin" by Chorin et al. April 24, 2020 in Nature Medicine (I accessed it at nature.com)

The following excerpt provides preliminary evidence that yes, active Covid infection (at least higher severity cases) put patients at higher risk of toxicity. Thankfully, there were no incidents of Torsade de Pointes. Deaths in the HCQ/AZ patients were not related to arrhythmias and their ECGs were normal. But let me tell you: a mean prolongation of 24 msec and 11% incidence of QTc over 500 msec will make the cardiologists and intensivists pucker up. The patients were living in powder kegs and giving off sparks.

"The effectiveness of HZ/AZ in treating SARS-CoV-2 infection has been demonstrated in one small human study so far2. Previously, the combination of HY/AZ resulted in mild QTc prolongation when given to young healthy volunteers8. In our work, we found that in patients with COVID-19 who were treated with HY/AZ, the QTc was significantly prolonged. This discrepancy suggests that QT prolongation may be influenced by patient attributes such as the presence of co-morbidities and the severity of the disease9. Of note, recent guidance suggested ECG screening with QTc assessment for patients with COVID-19 who are candidates for novel therapies, including HY/AZ10. In our cohort, five of nine patients with severe QTc prolongation had a normal QTc at baseline. We therefore suggest that the QTc should be followed repeatedly in patients with COVID-19 who are treated with HY/AZ, particularly in those with co-morbidities and in those who are treated with other QT-prolonging medications."

 

I hope for the best for patients on these drugs. But don't let anyone try to convince you of their safety for Covid-19 based on old safety data in other populations.

Re: "The more safe people are convinced it is, the higher the potential risk for therapeutic misadventures."  Our situation is the complete reverse - HCQ became a political football and scaremongering was stickum.

It's showing up that QT prolongation grabs attention when azithromycin is added, but not so much with HCQ monotherapy.  So consider eliminating azithromycin.  From what I'm seeing, AZ isn't mentioned so much when used in pre-symptomatic or early mild cases, more so HCQ w/wo Zinc.

Potential scaremongering also relates to other documented adverse events associated with HCQ like hemolytic anemia in G6PD deficiency folks, and the onset of toxic retinopathy.  Regarding incidence of retinopathy:

Quote

Hydroxychloroquine retinal toxicity is far more common than previously considered; an overall prevalence of 7.5% was identified in patients taking HCQ for greater than 5 years, rising to almost 20% after 20 years of treatment.

So after 1,825 doses of HCQ, 7.5/100 will get retinopathy, 20/100 after 7,300 doses.  Realize the early/mild Covid HCQ protocols generally call for dosing over 5 days.

 

Regarding HCQ associated hemolytic anemia in those with G6PD deficiency:

Quote

There were no reported episodes of hemolysis in more than 700 months of HCQ exposure among the 11 G6PDH‐deficient patients.

So after about 21,000 total doses of HCQ in vulnerable G6PD deficient people, no adverse hemolytic events assoc with HCQ were observed.  They don't even recommended monitoring G6PD levels while receiving HCQ.  Again, realize the Covid HCQ protocols call for exposure to 5 days of dosing by comparison.

I understand what you were saying about caution in applying safety standards to medications not tested with Covid given its multi-system involvement.  But appreciate the difference in the scale of duration of exposure here. 5 days of dosing, not daily for multiple years.  Also, we'd be hearing alarms going off and HCQ would be getting jettisoned if these adverse events were happening from 5 day trials with any level of concern in any number of countries employing it.  Instead, more nations are incorporating it into national pandemic crisis protocols.

[triplehorn 2664]

1 hour ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

County I live in has been approved by Kate Brown for "Phase 1" re-opening starting tomorrow.  

 

https://ktvz.com/news/coronavirus/2020/05/13/gov-brown-set-to-announce-which-counties-enter-phase-1-reopening/

That's great for where you are.  Deschutes and Crook Counties are the only two that meet criteria in the state for Phase 1 opening.  Still, it's good to see a county with a populace the size of Bend is ready to advance with a plan.  OR's larger cities will be able to coordinate to boost emerging elements of success and to ID and address failures. 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33695]

dumbest.fucking.timeline:

It's like a perpetual Simpson's episode but no one's laughing.

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20300]

Here's a headline I never thought I'd see:

Michigan Cancels Legislative Session to Avoid Armed Protesters

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-14/michigan-cancels-legislative-session-to-avoid-armed-protesters
 

[tx 3 putt 74771]

16 minutes ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

Here's a headline I never thought I'd see:

Michigan Cancels Legislative Session to Avoid Armed Protesters

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-14/michigan-cancels-legislative-session-to-avoid-armed-protesters
 

 

make all visitors  - check in, be finger printed and issued an id. id must be worn at all times. this would be solid first step and control the crowd. you can't control a border if you don't know who's coming in. big rowdy crowd shows up, you stymie them at the badging office. 

ill guess, some of those freedom fighters shouldn't be owning weapons 

Edited May 15, 2020 by tx 3 putt

[triplehorn 2664]

10 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

dumbest.fucking.timeline:

It's like a perpetual Simpson's episode but no one's laughing.

"They Came 'From Russia, With Love' "

have some spontaneous combustion

 

 

 

[wildcat09 28387]

Imagine how this shit in Michigan would be described by American media if it was happening in South America.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23245]

The horror...

[Dbeasy 14733]

I’m concerned our government is completely misinterpreting the current situation and what is going to happen in the future. They are treating the whole thing as a quick little economic blip when in reality we probably have a two year plus slog through a horrible economy with millions of unemployed.

The economy is not just going to magically snap back. That isn’t how deep recessions work. You can’t just splash around some money to hope that it goes away. The economy is too big for a few trillion to work that strongly.

Now the House is proposing another $3T with another $1200-$6000 in payments. How many times are we going to give money, as opposed to employing people to get something for the money given?

Shouldn’t the government be working on a massive works program (corona safe jobs), ala FDR, so that these masses of unemployed can work with the country getting some benefit from the trillions of dollars we are giving people? The first emergency payments made sense but at some point our government needs to wake up and realize it’s not a short term problem. People want to work, so everyone wins.

[Chult86 291]

8 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

I’m concerned our government is completely misinterpreting the current situation and what is going to happen in the future. They are treating the whole thing as a quick little economic blip when in reality we probably have a two year plus slog through a horrible economy with millions of unemployed.

The economy is not just going to magically snap back. That isn’t how deep recessions work. You can’t just splash around some money to hope that it goes away. The economy is too big for a few trillion to work that strongly.

Now the House is proposing another $3T with another $1200-$6000 in payments. How many times are we going to give money, as opposed to employing people to get something for the money given?

Shouldn’t the government be working on a massive works program (corona safe jobs), ala FDR, so that these masses of unemployed can work with the country getting some benefit from the trillions of dollars we are giving people? The first emergency payments made sense but at some point our government needs to wake up and realize it’s not a short term problem. People want to work, so everyone wins.

You can take your logic and leave sir!

Although I think there is some real merit to doing a temporary UBI, and seeing how it affects us as we go through the recession. It may teach us that in future recessions, keeping the citizens afloat, especially the more financially vulnerable, may lead to shorter recession periods. Or we could be fucked. Magic 8Ball says "Try Again Later"

[gmr548 16254]

Shouldn’t the government be working on a massive works program (corona safe jobs), ala FDR, so that these masses of unemployed can work with the country getting some benefit from the trillions of dollars we are giving people? The first emergency payments made sense but at some point our government needs to wake up and realize it’s not a short term problem. People want to work, so everyone wins.

Green New Deal. If you oppose it at this point in time you're a fucking idiot.

[GRHorn 105]

58 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

I’m concerned our government is completely misinterpreting the current situation and what is going to happen in the future. They are treating the whole thing as a quick little economic blip when in reality we probably have a two year plus slog through a horrible economy with millions of unemployed.

The economy is not just going to magically snap back. That isn’t how deep recessions work. You can’t just splash around some money to hope that it goes away. The economy is too big for a few trillion to work that strongly.

Now the House is proposing another $3T with another $1200-$6000 in payments. How many times are we going to give money, as opposed to employing people to get something for the money given?

Shouldn’t the government be working on a massive works program (corona safe jobs), ala FDR, so that these masses of unemployed can work with the country getting some benefit from the trillions of dollars we are giving people? The first emergency payments made sense but at some point our government needs to wake up and realize it’s not a short term problem. People want to work, so everyone wins.

Infrastructure week is around the corner. 

Seriously, if we’re gonna just endlessly print money we should get some new roads out of it. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23245]

1 hour ago, Dbeasy said:

 

I’m concerned our government is completely misinterpreting the current situation and what is going to happen in the future. They are treating the whole thing as a quick little economic blip when in reality we probably have a two year plus slog through a horrible economy with millions of unemployed.

 

The reality of the devastation and the hardship ahead hasn’t sunk in with our leaders or most of the population.  I’m not sure if it ever will.  This is beyond a Great Depression crisis and the reason the Great Depression was so awful was because Hoover believed the free market would magically fix itself, it didn’t.  Our situation is very similar but compounded with a global public health crisis and a reality TV gameshow host as President telling people to try ingesting disinfectants. 

Edited May 15, 2020 by Hugo Stiglitz

[TXSG8R 3325]

12 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Infrastructure week is around the corner. 

Seriously, if we’re gonna just endlessly print money we should get some new roads out of it. 

I've thought since the beginning that a CCC style program would be a great way to blunt some of the unemployment, but then I remembered that people couldn't go without a haircut for 2 weeks.  The idea of people camping out and doing manual labor for below a minimum wage is comical with the citizenry we have now.  

Infrastructure week will be another grift.  

[Message Board User 12382]

Behind a paywall, but...

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23245]

Only fucking idiots would be taking a victory lap right now. 

[Fudge Nuggets 18825]

 

8 hours ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

Here's a headline I never thought I'd see:

Michigan Cancels Legislative Session to Avoid Armed Protesters

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-14/michigan-cancels-legislative-session-to-avoid-armed-protesters
 

Does Michigan not have a National Guard?  Are they out of ammo?

[Message Board User 12382]

 

[jimmyjazz 45055]

LMAO at the idea that theTrump administration could implement an FDR-style works program.  We'd end up with half a bridge and 10,000 black kids in cages.

[Guest Lobo]

yes, but that bridge would be tremendous.  Almost...perfect. 

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

10 hours ago, triplehorn said:

That's great for where you are.  Deschutes and Crook Counties are the only two that meet criteria in the state for Phase 1 opening.  Still, it's good to see a county with a populace the size of Bend is ready to advance with a plan.  OR's larger cities will be able to coordinate to boost emerging elements of success and to ID and address failures. 

 

Its up to 31 counties now.  I believe the counties that comprise Portland didn't apply.

https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavirus/2020/05/counties-home-to-bend-eugene-medford-approved-for-phase-1-reopening-amid-coronavirus-outbreak.html

 

Edit: I guess apparently even though Portland isn't in Phase 1, their retail stores, with limitations, can open:

https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavirus/2020/05/all-of-oregon-including-portland-can-reopen-friday-to-some-extent-questions-answered.html

Also, again for the record given my previous confession.  I don't intend to go back to the gym right away, nor eat at dine-in places.  Of course if my neighbors do, well....

 

Edited May 15, 2020 by MC Fresh Breath

[wildcat09 28387]

24 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Only fucking idiots would be taking a victory lap right now. 

Yeah, I’m not sure about Georgia but it’s been pretty widely reported that Florida is juking their stats. I’d assume Georgia is too.

[Mo Horn 8680]

17 minutes ago, Lobo said:

yes, but that bridge would be tremendous.  Almost...perfect. 

[Snake Diggity 4545]

2 hours ago, Dbeasy said:

I’m concerned our government is completely misinterpreting the current situation and what is going to happen in the future. They are treating the whole thing as a quick little economic blip when in reality we probably have a two year plus slog through a horrible economy with millions of unemployed.

The economy is not just going to magically snap back. That isn’t how deep recessions work. You can’t just splash around some money to hope that it goes away. The economy is too big for a few trillion to work that strongly.

Now the House is proposing another $3T with another $1200-$6000 in payments. How many times are we going to give money, as opposed to employing people to get something for the money given?

Shouldn’t the government be working on a massive works program (corona safe jobs), ala FDR, so that these masses of unemployed can work with the country getting some benefit from the trillions of dollars we are giving people? The first emergency payments made sense but at some point our government needs to wake up and realize it’s not a short term problem. People want to work, so everyone wins.

Not a bad idea but impossible for the govt to manage a “corona-safe public works” program.  This is the use case for a temporary universal basic income.  $1600/mo directly into the hands of every adult citizen until there’s a vaccine, cure, or good enough testing/tracing system to end the virus.  

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

28 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

LMAO at the idea that theTrump administration could implement an FDR-style works program.  We'd end up with half a bridge and 10,000 black kids in cages.

So a ledge? Very on brand.

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

4 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

Not a bad idea but impossible for the govt to manage a “corona-safe public works” program.  This is the use case for a temporary universal basic income.  $1600/mo directly into the hands of every adult citizen until there’s a vaccine, cure, or good enough testing/tracing system to end the virus.  

 

And honestly, we could do more than that, imo.  Looking at the amounts that got dumped into markets, airlines, and other corps right away (or at least skimming them) and then looking at what was done for the most economically vulnerable of US citizens is depressing.  Not surprising, but still bleak.

[TXSG8R 3325]

23 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Yeah, I’m not sure about Georgia but it’s been pretty widely reported that Florida is juking their stats. I’d assume Georgia is too.

https://www.ajc.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/just-cuckoo-state-latest-data-mishap-causes-critics-cry-foul/182PpUvUX9XEF8vO11NVGO/

Quote

Wrong information about Georgia’s battle against COVID-19 is already shaping the way the public sees the state. A Friday column in The Wall Street Journal dubbed Kemp’s controversial decision to begin reopening, “The Georgia Model.”It said the state is experiencing “a welcome trend of declining new cases and deaths.”In fact, seven-day rolling averages of cases show only a slight decline over two weeks. Deaths appear to have plateaued, according to an Atlanta Journal-Constitution analysis of daily DPH reports. The impact of reopening Georgia’s economy is still too early to measure for both new infections and deaths because of the lag time between an infection, testing, diagnosis and, potentially, death.

 

[Neonmoon 38126]

Everything this administration touches is an unmitigated dumpster clown show and will be until Trump is out of office. It is hard to find the energy to argue or even debate the layers of Clown that are exhibited every day. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23245]

7 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Everything this administration touches is an unmitigated dumpster clown show and will be until Trump is out of office. It is hard to find the energy to argue or even debate the layers of Clown that are exhibited every day. 

The ethos for the Trump administration is to not govern, but rule. 

[Kyrie Eleison 9248]

9 hours ago, triplehorn said:

"They Came 'From Russia, With Love' "

have some spontaneous combustion

 

 

 

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

27 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

 It is hard to find the energy to argue or even debate the layers of Clown that are exhibited every day. 

Neighbor called me yesterday and was going off about the 'poor treatment' that salon owner received. I'm like 'what, didn't she receive money for her business? '

"She was on  The View and said it didn't come until she was in jail."

(Me-holding tongue on debating the veracity of the salon owner's statement) But she had to apply for it.

"But there are so many and you don't know which one you're going to get and it just showed up in her account."

(Me) You have to read the paperwork before you apply, right? That is on her to monitor. It is confusing and probably written that way on purpose, but if she was unable to open her salon, isn't it imperative that she read up on that?"

"As a small business owner (neighbor is), we don't have time for that. It's too confusing."

(Me-holding tongue on free markets and suitability of time management) Sure, but had the Treasury Department given stimulus checks outright that were in a greater amount instead of propping up large corporations that should(!) have reserves don't you think this might have been resolved without her breaking the law? (Oops, shouldn't have gone there)

"She shouldn't have been thrown in jail! Her people need to be paid!"

It went downhill from there. Alas, my husband was unsympathetic in that he is like, "just don't engage. What did you expect?" He is right, but I am watching our somewhat amicable neighborliness deteriorate and like @Neonmoon says, it is tiresome. Why bother?

 

It's weird. She's not wrong: people are suffering. But there are ways to alleviate that suffering that don't involve some of what transpired with the salon owner. Working with business owners in outbreak areas is going to require compromise and effort. I don't think that woman is a hero.

Edited May 15, 2020 by Mrs Whiggins
edit

[gmr548 16254]

Yeah, I’m not sure about Georgia but it’s been pretty widely reported that Florida is juking their stats. I’d assume Georgia is too.

It's too early to draw much in the way of conclusions but worth noting that Georgia is reportedly at 80 percent of its ICU capacity. Hopefully it plateaus. Their overall case total implies a crazy rate of hospitalization so we know the undercount there is significant.

[elfenix 34001]

More about the quick test from Abbott -

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-1495

Over the 4 days of infection before the typical time of symptom onset (day 5), the probability of a false-negative result in an infected person decreases from 100% (95% CI, 100% to 100%) on day 1 to 67% (CI, 27% to 94%) on day 4. On the day of symptom onset, the median false-negative rate was 38% (CI, 18% to 65%). This decreased to 20% (CI, 12% to 30%) on day 8 (3 days after symptom onset) then began to increase again, from 21% (CI, 13% to 31%) on day 9 to 66% (CI, 54% to 77%) on day 21.

[Snake Diggity 4545]

30 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

 

And honestly, we could do more than that, imo.  Looking at the amounts that got dumped into markets, airlines, and other corps right away (or at least skimming them) and then looking at what was done for the most economically vulnerable of US citizens is depressing.  Not surprising, but still bleak.

Depressing not just from a morality/justice perspective but also depressing because of the gross inefficiency.  If all of the corporate bailout and PPP dollars had been put directly into the hands of individuals it would have had a much more dramatic and immediate positive impact on human lives, with the other difference being the impact to the stock market may have been delayed.  Depending on one’s view of monetary theory, there may be no limit to the amount of stimulus potential.

[Post Oak 20068]

1 hour ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Neighbor called me yesterday and was going off about the 'poor treatment' that salon owner received. I'm like 'what, didn't she receive money for her business? '

"She was on  The View and said it didn't come until she was in jail."

(Me-holding tongue on debating the veracity of the salon owner's statement) But she had to apply for it.

"But there are so many and you don't know which one you're going to get and it just showed up in her account."

(Me) You have to read the paperwork before you apply, right? That is on her to monitor. It is confusing and probably written that way on purpose, but if she was unable to open her salon, isn't it imperative that she read up on that?"

"As a small business owner (neighbor is), we don't have time for that. It's too confusing."

(Me-holding tongue on free markets and suitability of time management) Sure, but had the Treasury Department given stimulus checks outright that were in a greater amount instead of propping up large corporations that should(!) have reserves don't you think this might have been resolved without her breaking the law? (Oops, shouldn't have gone there)

"She shouldn't have been thrown in jail! Her people need to be paid!"

It went downhill from there. Alas, my husband was unsympathetic in that he is like, "just don't engage. What did you expect?" He is right, but I am watching our somewhat amicable neighborliness deteriorate, and as @Neonmoon says, it is tiresome. Why bother?

 

It's weird. She's not wrong: people are suffering. But there are ways to alleviate that suffering that doesn't involve some of what transpired with the salon owner. Working with business owners in outbreak areas is going to require compromise and effort. I don't think that woman is a hero.

She's not. She's an opportunist and a grifter.

Dumb people are the most valuable commodity in the world.  

[Native Horn 3465]

2 hours ago, Lobo said:

yes, but that bridge would be tremendous.  Almost...perfect. 

"Many people are saying, very famous architects, that it is a beautiful bridge, rated much more bridgier than other bridges built in the past under prior administrations.  The banks of America will be receiving tolls from this largest bridge, and of course the tariffs that are collected will help us build more big, beautiful coal plants like the many that have opened in the last three years, our VA systems is the best in the world and even Dr. Fauci and Deborah have said they will leave quarantine to ride on top of the bridge.  KEEP AMERICA GREAT!"

[Message Board User 12382]

Not surprised that the Democrats would do just as the GOP did - try to use this pandemic to advance pet agenda items.

The difference is that there are actually some Dems out there with a backbone willing to point this out.