CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk

[Gap03 3303]

2 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Odds that guy had a concealed gun and wanted to create a situation in which he could claim self defense after shooting the cameraman = 100%.

That would make sense, given he keeps yelling "I FEEL THREATENED" for the camera.  Chances that he is (or was) a cop?  Probably >50%, given the "I feared for my life ..." training on display here.

[Beau Vine 54207]

 

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

I am in no way an anti-vaxxer, but stories like this do give me (an admitted layperson) pause on the current process:

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-moderna-exclusive/exclusive-moderna-spars-with-u-s-scientists-over-covid-19-vaccine-trials-idUSKBN2481EU

 

 

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

8 hours ago, Degenerate Gardner said:

 

 

Republicans have really painted themselves into a corner with this. Except the paint is feces, and we're in the corner with them.

 

The school issue is an interesting one.  Most of my co-workers are Texas based and tend to lean conservative (not necessarily pro-Trump).  One of them told me recently that he's not sending his kids to school in person this fall regardless of what the 'orders' are at the time.  I imagine he is not alone in that thought.

Wife and I are having similar discussions here in Oregon.   From our local school district's last email on things:

Quote

 

We have applied the current state guidelines, and while the plan we are about to present is not certain, we are working on the feasibility of an ABC approach for our students when we reopen our doors this fall, which could look like:

    A: Grades K-5 students would be ALL IN and return to our school campuses full time for in-person instruction with social distancing.
    B: Grades 6-12 would be BALANCED, with some time devoted to in-person learning on campus and the other time spent with remote learning with classroom teachers.

 

 

I would have one child in the "A" and one in the "B" category this fall.     What in the world for me personally would be the point of having the youngest fully exposed (kids do not social distance, no matter what the school says) and one only exposed in "balance?'   Part of the reason I moved here pre-pandemic was the schools in the area being so well rated.  But that was indeed pre-pandemic.  Not sure what path things are going to take now.

[Horndog 2228]

9 hours ago, mchookem said:

and remember, Floridians hate themselves  

What has Texas ever done to Alaska?

[Gap03 3303]

1 minute ago, Horndog said:

What has Texas ever done to Alaska?

Perhaps they associate the Exxon Valdez with the Texas O&G industry?

[gmr548 16576]

What has Texas ever done to Alaska?

I'd wager a large percentage of this country, including Texas residents, think Texas is the biggest state in the country based purely on reputation/bluster/ whatever. You know how we scoff at aggy for thinking it's the biggest program in the state? Probably a similar dynamic.

[Jive Turkey 12594]

 

[LTbear 4168]

45 minutes ago, Horndog said:

What has Texas ever done to Alaska?

Alaskans get annoyed with Texas bragging about how big and tough it is when Alaska is twice as big and 10X as difficult to live in. It's not something many Alaskans think about but really, what state does Alaska have much of any reason to "hate?"

There's a great bar in Juneau that has two bear traps on the wall. The smaller one is labeled "Texas bear trap." The much larger one is labeled "Alaska mouse trap."

[Anastasis 23458]

https://reason.com/2020/07/06/to-get-americans-safely-back-to-work-and-play-we-need-cheap-and-plentiful-at-home-covid-19-testing/

To Get Americans Safely Back to Work and Play, We Need Cheap and Plentiful At-home COVID-19 Testing

Enable people to act responsibly toward their neighbors and co-workers.

A hand-held 15-minute COVID-19 antigen test has received emergency use authorization from the Food and Drug Administration, announced medical technology company Becton Dickinson (BD) in a press release today. The test works by detecting the presence of coronavirus proteins using specific antibodies embedded on a test strip coated with nasal swab samples, which is then inserted into BD's proprietary cell phone-sized BD Veritor System platform.

One huge advantage is that the test can detect COVID-19 infections not only in patients showing symptoms but also in pre-symptomatic and asymptomatic people. There are more than 25,000 of the testing machines already located in hospitals, clinics, urgent care centers, retail pharmacies, and doctor's offices around the country.

Becton Dickinson's testing machines sell for about $300, and the tests themselves are about $20 each. This compares to at-home molecular diagnostic tests that cost more than $100 and take more than two to three days to obtain results from offsite laboratories. The company says that it will roll out up to 10 million tests by the end of September and that it is working toward the capacity to manufacture 2 million a week.

While BD's new COVID-19 test is certainly a helpful step forward, much more (and even cheaper) antigen testing is needed to control the pandemic and get people back to work, argued an op-ed last week in The New York Times.

I made exactly the same case back in May: "Testing yourself and your family every day for COVID-19 with a cheap, easy-to-use, 10-minute test could be the game-changer for crushing the epidemic and getting everybody safely back to work and play. Widespread deployment of home antigen testing could make this scenario possible."

Basically, COVID-19 antigen tests would work much the same way that at-home pregnancy and HIV paper strip tests work now. A fast positive test would enable infected people to voluntarily, quickly self-isolate, and thus break the chains of infection that are fueling the epidemic.

The Times op-ed suggests that fast at-home tests would enable people to act responsibly to protect themselves, their families, their neighbors, fellow bar patrons, and co-workers from this scourge:

Would everyone take a paper-strip test every day? Here market incentives will surely help. Once they are provided to all, employers would likely require their workers to take time-dated pictures of their negative test results before coming to work. Colleges would require students to do the same before coming to class. Restaurants could accept reservations only if accompanied by negative-test pictures. In short, everyone will have an incentive to test themselves daily to participate fully in the economy and return to normal life.

Once paper strips' efficacy is definitively proved and they are cleared by the F.D.A., Congress can quickly authorize the production and distribution, for free, of a year's supply to all Americans. Then we'll have not only a true day-to-day sense of Covid-19's path. We'll also have a far better means to quickly contain and end this terrible plague.

How much would such testing cost? The good news is that other companies are working to create antigen tests that cost as little as $1. At that price, daily testing for a year by 300 million Americans would amount to roughly $110 billion. However, weekly testing by nearly everybody would probably be more than sufficient to crush the epidemic, and that would cost around $15 billion. That testing price tag would be a bargain when considering that the Congress has already passed legislation authorizing more than $3 trillion in various forms of coronavirus aid.

[Anastasis 23458]

1 hour ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

I am in no way an anti-vaxxer, but stories like this do give me (an admitted layperson) pause on the current process:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-moderna-exclusive/exclusive-moderna-spars-with-u-s-scientists-over-covid-19-vaccine-trials-idUSKBN2481EU

 

The vax situation is a bad setup from a safety perspective in my opinion.  Bunch of companies developing novel vax technologies (not novel in the sense of COVID, novel in the sense the some of the vaccine types are unproven in humans), accelerated development timelines, unprecendented demand for rapid roll out. I don't like it at all. The vax roll out will need to be very thoughtful.    

[NameAlreadyInUse 5111]

Well yeah, of course that would be awesome.  I don't see anywhere in there where any kind of timeline for such a test would be available.

[A-Tex Devil 2446]

22 minutes ago, Jive Turkey said:

 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33859]

If you still think this is a hoax I encourage you to watch this. And if you still believe it's a hoax after that, then walk in front of a bus.

 

[Wanker Bob 379]

8 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

https://reason.com/2020/07/06/to-get-americans-safely-back-to-work-and-play-we-need-cheap-and-plentiful-at-home-covid-19-testing/

To Get Americans Safely Back to Work and Play, We Need Cheap and Plentiful At-home COVID-19 Testing

Enable people to act responsibly toward their neighbors and co-workers.

 

 

Won't matter when 30 to 40 percent of the country are too dug in to even admit it's a real problem and about 97 percent of the country couldn't afford to go two weeks with getting some work pay. 

Couple that with a government unwilling to financially help its own people other than throwing an occasional picked dry bone here and there and it means whatever the worst thing this virus can do to us is...

we will get it.

[Dnaguy 11918]

32 minutes ago, Jive Turkey said:

 

[DDD Dad 14325]

1 hour ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

I am in no way an anti-vaxxer, but stories like this do give me (an admitted layperson) pause on the current process:

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-moderna-exclusive/exclusive-moderna-spars-with-u-s-scientists-over-covid-19-vaccine-trials-idUSKBN2481EU

 

 

Moderna's spokesperson could not be reached for comment.

[DDD Dad 14325]

borked dp.

Edited July 7, 2020 by DDD Dad

[NameAlreadyInUse 5111]

15 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

If you still think this is a hoax I encourage you to watch this. And if you still believe it's a hoax after that, then walk in front of a bus.

 

Who can go to hell?

[The Royal We 3067]

Sorry if I've missed this, I've been away from the thread for a few days and search did me no good. 

I've had multiple people claim to me that if the same person tests positive multiple times that they are all showing up as additional cases in the official case counts from the CDC and various dashboards.  I can find articles addressing that this is false in North Carolina and Georgia, but nothing for Texas.  Does anyone have a source for this?

[Prepuce of Doom 21053]

[BigHorn'13 3363]

Completely out of context but if I have to hear about "the young people not taking this seriously" I'mma cap a boomer.

All generations seem to be not taking this shit seriously so why is it on the young people to do everything? At what age do adults acceptably return to acting like children? Asking for a friend...

[conVINCEd 21469]

2 minutes ago, BigHorn'13 said:

At what age do adults acceptably return to acting like children? Asking for a friend...

Based on personal experience, it happens around the time they collect their first social security check.

[JimmyJames 12271]

10 hours ago, mchookem said:

and remember, Floridians hate themselves  

There is no way people in Colorado hate Californians more than Texans. 

[Bama Chick 28596]

Sorry if I've missed this, I've been away from the thread for a few days and search did me no good. 
I've had multiple people claim to me that if the same person tests positive multiple times that they are all showing up as additional cases in the official case counts from the CDC and various dashboards.  I can find articles addressing that this is false in North Carolina and Georgia, but nothing for Texas.  Does anyone have a source for this?

It’s a right wing talking point.

Alabama Department of Public Health had to actually put out a statement debunking it because actual elected were spouting it off too.

I would imagine Texas is the same but unless someone asks for clarification the information may not be floating around.

[Anastasis 23458]

18 minutes ago, BigHorn'13 said:

Completely out of context but if I have to hear about "the young people not taking this seriously" I'mma cap a boomer.

All generations seem to be not taking this shit seriously so why is it on the young people to do everything? At what age do adults acceptably return to acting like children? Asking for a friend...

Agree that there are examples of all generations shitting the bed, but at least on social distancing measures there does appear to be a relationship with age.

 

ETA: SCAN survey results from 8097 respondents from King County for masking and distancing behavior while in public. Survey respondents were asked how often (always, sometimes, never) they did each of the following in the past seven days: “wear a face mask in public to protect others from getting sick?” and “try to stay six feet away from people who don’t live with you?” Image courtesy Public Health Insider

 

Edited July 7, 2020 by Anastasis

[Anastasis 23458]

6 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

It’s a right wing talking point.

Alabama Department of Public Health had to actually put out a statement debunking it because actual elected were spouting it off too.

 

 

 

 

I would imagine Texas is the same but unless someone asks for clarification the information may not be floating around.

 

 

 

 

That's antibody testing vs. diagnostic testing.  The way that I read the quoted test was how were cases where an individual had multiple diagnostic test come back as positive treated.  Not sure the answer to that, but even if they are double counting I don't think it should have a meaningful impact on the trends we are seeing in cases. 

[jimmyjazz 45887]

Maybe old people just lie more.  (Semi-serious:  I would expect someone 40 or older to be more aware of the social contract related to wearing masks and social distancing than a teenager, and to feel more shame for not participating.)

[Prepuce of Doom 21053]

Yesterday's Shithead of the Day has been identified, fired, etc. - details in thread below. 

(Former) insurance agent, apparently. 

 

[LTbear 4168]

25 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

There is no way people in Colorado hate Californians more than Texans. 

Disagree. Lived in Colorado for 8 years, wife's family is from there. Texans are seen as annoying, but Californians contribute more heavily to the population boom, rise in housing costs, and change in the political landscape of Colorado.

[The Royal We 3067]

9 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

 

That's antibody testing vs. diagnostic testing.  The way that I read the quoted test was how were cases where an individual had multiple diagnostic test come back as positive treated.  Not sure the answer to that, but even if they are double counting I don't think it should have a meaningful impact on the trends we are seeing in cases. 

Yea, I don't think it would be statistically significant, but I'd like to find a trustworthy source that says the case count is individuals, not positive tests - found that for NC and GA, but not for TX.  Been digging around on the TX DSHS website with no luck so far - not mentioned in the FAQ.

[JimmyJames 12271]

1 minute ago, LTbear said:

Disagree. Lived in Colorado for 8 years, wife's family is from there. Texans are seen as annoying, but Californians contribute more heavily to the population boom, rise in housing costs, and change in the political landscape of Colorado.

Yeah you’re probably right. I haven’t spent much time in Colorado since the mid 90s because the wife doesn’t like to ski. 

[Anastasis 23458]

18 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Maybe old people just lie more.  (Semi-serious:  I would expect someone 40 or older to be more aware of the social contract related to wearing masks and social distancing than a teenager, and to feel more shame for not participating.)

There certainly may be some either conscious or subconscious bias towards giving the "correct" response among older folks. All I can say is that those data tend to agree with my observations.  A HS aged kid wearing a mask and practicing social distancing is a unicorn. #pongfest 

Edited July 7, 2020 by Anastasis

[TXSG8R 3362]

4 minutes ago, The Royal We said:

Yea, I don't think it would be statistically significant, but I'd like to find a trustworthy source that says the case count is individuals, not positive tests - found that for NC and GA, but not for TX.  Been digging around on the TX DSHS website with no luck so far - not mentioned in the FAQ.

Occam's razor should tell you that Texas and other red, pro-open states would do everything possible to report the lowest number available.  

[Longhorn_Fan68 33859]

10 minutes ago, LTbear said:

Disagree. Lived in Colorado for 8 years, wife's family is from there. Texans are seen as annoying, but Californians contribute more heavily to the population boom, rise in housing costs, and change in the political landscape of Colorado.

yeah, my experience is people in CO make fun of Texans (call them bubbas, etc) but actually hate Californians.

[jimmyjazz 45887]

7 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

There certainly may be some either conscious or subconscious bias towards giving the "correct" response among older folks. All I can say is that those data tend to agree with my observations.  A HS aged kid wearing a mask and practicing social distancing is a unicorn. #pongfest 

Agreed.  I see the same thing.

[Anastasis 23458]

11 minutes ago, The Royal We said:

Yea, I don't think it would be statistically significant, but I'd like to find a trustworthy source that says the case count is individuals, not positive tests - found that for NC and GA, but not for TX.  Been digging around on the TX DSHS website with no luck so far - not mentioned in the FAQ.

I think that that kind of reduction to individual level counts vs. test level counts would have to occur at the county level. My assumption would be that test level counts are what is being provided, but there may vary well be variability from county to county, and there would likely be some errors introduced in the process.  None of which I think would actually have a meaningful impact on the numbers. 

[Doc Sam Beckett 5792]

17 minutes ago, LTbear said:

Disagree. Lived in Colorado for 8 years, wife's family is from there. Texans are seen as annoying, but Californians contribute more heavily to the population boom, rise in housing costs, and change in the political landscape of Colorado.

That's right, we've taken an Edward Longshanks approach. Since the rest of the United States won't let California leave to become Europe West, we will just invade your states and breed you out. 

[LTbear 4168]

4 minutes ago, Doc Sam Beckett said:

That's right, we've taken an Edward Longshanks approach. Since the rest of the United States won't let California leave to become Europe West, we will just invade your states and breed you out. 

I'm on the tail-end of a six-year stint in California. Cannot wait to get out. 

[The Royal We 3067]

3 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I think that that kind of reduction to individual level counts vs. test level counts would have to occur at the county level. My assumption would be that test level counts are what is being provided, but there may vary well be variability from county to county, and there would likely be some errors introduced in the process.  None of which I think would actually have a meaningful impact on the numbers. 

Seems reasonable.  Although I do think it could become more statistically impactful in the future if multiple negative tests are required before someone can participate in an activity - seems like that would drive more positive tests.

It also seems like counties should have the ability to keep track the number of positive individuals vs. tests in the numbers they are reporting to the state.  At least the smaller counties, it could be more challenging for Harris, Dallas, Tarrant, etc.

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

Just got off a small conference call and one of the people on the call was from Arizona.  Call had nothing to do with the virus, but at some point someone casually asked the team member about all of the news reports coming out about Arizona's infection rates.

And wow, was I taken aback.  Arizona team member said that it wasn't a big deal, the reporting is most likely exaggerated and based on politics, and while he "won't go into politics, its an election year."  Then he capped that thought off with "everyone might as well get sick and get it over with."   This is *after* he announced he was going to be a Grandparent soon for the first time.

Floored, as I had previously thought this guy one of the more rational, kinder types out there.  

Edited July 7, 2020 by MC Fresh Breath

[BradInATX 9208]

There's a lady who I guess works at the Manchaca/Slaughter HEB, she's grossly overweight and moves around in a scooter and was telling stockers what to do. She had a mouth hole cut into her mask. 

The fuck.

[gmr548 16576]

There's a lady who I guess works at the Manchaca/Slaughter HEB, she's grossly overweight and moves around in a scooter and was telling stockers what to do. She had a mouth hole cut into her mask. 
The fuck.

Could just be a mobility Karen

[fattyflattie 4639]

35 minutes ago, Prepuce of Doom said:

Yesterday's Shithead of the Day has been identified, fired, etc. - details in thread below. 

(Former) insurance agent, apparently. 

 

This dude needs a good ass whipping.  That hook in the nose tells me he's had a few over the years.

[Anastasis 23458]

 

4 minutes ago, The Royal We said:

Seems reasonable.  Although I do think it could become more statistically impactful in the future if multiple negative tests are required before someone can participate in an activity - seems like that would drive more positive tests.

It also seems like counties should have the ability to keep track the number of positive individuals vs. tests in the numbers they are reporting to the state.  At least the smaller counties, it could be more challenging for Harris, Dallas, Tarrant, etc.

Yeah, I think it could have impact if policy was crafted to require serial testing. 

I would agree that the ability to report out person-level should be straightforward. Seems to me that information should be integrated into the contact tracing platform, which I would assume are more sophisticated in larger counties. I don't really know the answer, just speculating. 

[Beau Vine 54207]

3 hours ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

I am in no way an anti-vaxxer, but stories like this do give me (an admitted layperson) pause on the current process:

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-moderna-exclusive/exclusive-moderna-spars-with-u-s-scientists-over-covid-19-vaccine-trials-idUSKBN2481EU

 

 

Which part of that?

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

1 minute ago, Beau Vine said:

Which part of that?

Quote

Some of the disagreements have stoked concerns over the young biotech firm’s relative inexperience and what the sources described as its lack of staff and expertise to oversee the most critical phase of human trials

Quote

Moderna denied any missteps on its part but acknowledged “differences of opinion” with experts involved in the unprecedented effort to deliver on the Trump administration’s pledge to find a vaccine within months.

Quote

“It has not been smooth or easy,” said Moderna spokesman Ray Jordan. “No one has ever done anything like this before - not Moderna, not the NIH, and not any of the other companies.”

Quote

In one disagreement, Moderna executives resisted experts’ insistence on close monitoring of trial participants who might contract COVID-19 for changes in oxygen levels that could signal dangerous complications. While other drugmakers complied, Moderna questioned the recommendation as a “hassle” that slowed development, one of the sources told Reuters. Jordan said the company preferred to defer all decisions about monitoring to patients’ physicians but that the company ultimately agreed to some monitoring.

Quote

Moderna delayed submitting its clinical trial protocols by several weeks, the sources said. The protocols lay out goals and detailed procedures for researchers to manage the trial safely. While Moderna maintained it made the call to delay the trial launch, the sources said Moderna lacked enough staff to complete the protocols on time.

Quote

For Moderna, managing its first large-scale vaccine trial is a critical test of its ability to deliver to the public and investors. Moderna has about 20 potential vaccines and therapies in its pipeline, but none are near regulatory approval. Before its pursuit of a COVID-19 vaccine, the company’s largest clinical trial involved about 250 participants, according to the federal government’s database of clinical trials.

 

[Anastasis 23458]

1 hour ago, Prepuce of Doom said:

Yesterday's Shithead of the Day has been identified, fired, etc. - details in thread below. 

(Former) insurance agent, apparently. 

 

 

Does that guy look like he is printing a concealed weapon on his hip @ the waist band?

Edited July 7, 2020 by Anastasis

[DDD Dad 14325]

27 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

 

Yeah that's not good.

[hayden_horn 11362]

18 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

 

Does that guy look like he is printing a concealed weapon on his hip @ the waist band?

absolutely, and that's absolutely why he was using the "i feel threatened" language. he had a gun boner and wanted to get it off.