CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk

[JimmyJames 12271]

The death cult marches on. Next stop, the schools.

Trump must be vindicated.

[TwiceHorn 31679]

3 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

I mean that seems like a fucking lie. But I would love to be wrong.

I saw "all residents and visitors" and "face coverings," but misread "encouraged."  Says face coverings several times in several contexts, but always just encouraged.

[JimmyJames 12271]

Just now, TwiceHorn said:

I saw "all residents and visitors" and "face coverings," but misread "encouraged."  Says face coverings several times in several contexts, but always just encouraged.

While I can understand a misreading, I’ve done it plenty. 

This ain’t no fucking joke. Its high about time trump supporters woke up to that fact. 

[TwiceHorn 31679]

1 minute ago, JimmyJames said:

While I can understand a misreading, I’ve done it plenty. 

This ain’t no fucking joke. Its high about time trump supporters woke up to that fact. 

It's always right in the middle of a bunch of mandatory stuff.  Shall this shall that encourage face coverings.  It's almost like he's trying to hide it.

 

[Anastasis 23498]

21 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Yes he should. But he is apparently outside and away from others. He is not the problem. Which of course you know.

It's not a knock on Fauci. The point is that we need to normalize mask wearing through every outlet available.  I think a magazine cover under a banner of InStyle is a good opportunity wasted, imo.  

[JimmyJames 12271]

1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

It's always right in the middle of a bunch of mandatory stuff.  Shall this shall that encourage face coverings.  It's almost like he's trying to hide it.

 

Yep and that’s the problem. You seem like a reasonable and smart guy. Yet you were temporarily fooled. Think about Cletus out there. That’s there audience ya know?

[Bama Chick 28596]

This seems like a bad idea considering how this virus appears to be impacting black and brown communities at a higher rate.

[Anastasis 23498]

1 minute ago, Bama Chick said:

This seems like a bad idea considering how this virus appears to be impacting black and brown communities at a higher rate.

 

The lack of racial diversity is a problem.  Also the restricted age range 1-55 years. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

8 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

It's not a knock on Fauci. The point is that we need to normalize mask wearing through every outlet available.  I think a magazine cover under a banner of InStyle is a good opportunity wasted, imo.  

Yeah I agree. The whole campaign against Fauci just kind of encapsulates our problems though. Its just fucking so god damn tiresome.

[Anastasis 23498]

Just now, JimmyJames said:

Yeah I agree. The whole campaign against Fauci just kind of encapsulates our problems though. Its just fucking so god damn tiresome.

Oh I agree it's stupid.  

[SizzleChest 8291]

It's a fucking Phase 1 FTIM study with an n=45 - age is typically 18-55 for these studies.  I doubt the Phase 3 protocol will have race/ethnicity recruitment targets, either.  The primary goal is getting as many patients as fast as you can enrolled.  This is most likely true for all the vaccines.

If they thought the vaccine would work differently in black or hispanic people, they would include such a stratification in the study protocol.  Right now, there is no evidence of that.  The prevalence of the virus in certain populations has nothing to do with this.  

[DaysOff 8003]

My wife and I both applied to be Moderna and Pfizer phase 3 guinea pigs. Both 53 and fit. The pfizer study called my wife today. 7 visits over 2 years for $925. Must agree not to donate blood for the duration.

Give me the moderna. With my luck I'd get the placebo.

[Anastasis 23498]

12 minutes ago, SizzleChest said:

It's a fucking Phase 1 FTIM study with an n=45 - age is typically 18-55 for these studies.

I understand that purpose and reason for the limitation.  In terms of generalizing the findings (and there is a lot of that going on, see the stock market response for example), this is a limitation.  They had good titers in healthy group of younger individuals. The world is interpreting this as vaccine on the way! Everyone needs to slow their roll a bit. So far so good, but slow the roll. 

I did read that they had a cut of older subjects as well that would be released shortly.  Not sure if that was also from this Phase 1 study, or whether the article was referring to something out to the Phase 2 stuff that is wrapping up.

ETA: Here's the press release where they indicate they have older age groups, and the results for those age groups are pending.  Also substantial elderly in Phase 2.  

https://www.modernatx.com/modernas-work-potential-vaccine-against-covid-19

Evaluation of the durability of immune responses is ongoing, and participants will be followed for one year after the second vaccination, with scheduled blood collections throughout that period. An additional seven cohorts in this Phase 1 study have completed enrollment: a 50 µg cohort in adults 18-55 (n=15), three cohorts of older adults (n=30, ages 56-70, 25 µg, 50 µg, and 100 µg) and three cohorts of elderly adults (n=30, ages 71 and above, 25 µg, 50 µg, and 100 µg). These data are expected to be published separately. Given the increased morbidity and mortality of COVID-19 in older and elderly adults, additional evidence for the potential of a vaccine to protect this population is an urgent priority.

...

 

Both cohorts, healthy adults ages 18-55 years (n=300) and older adults ages 55 years and above (n=300), in the Company’s Phase 2 study of mRNA-1273 are fully enrolled. This Phase 2 placebo-controlled, dose-confirmation study is evaluating the safety, reactogenicity and immunogenicity of two vaccinations of mRNA-1273 given 28 days apart. Each participant is receiving placebo, a 50 μg or a 100 μg dose at both vaccinations.

 

 

Edited July 16, 2020 by Anastasis

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

17 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Yeah I agree. The whole campaign against Fauci just kind of encapsulates our problems though. Its just fucking so god damn tiresome.

It’s them working the ref.  We are going to look back on this and wonder why Fauci sounds like concerned Susan Collins when the entire country is on fucking fire.  Fauci is a dinosaur government official and he’s trying too hard to keep the Administration happy.  It doesn’t work with these vampires, they’re going to eat him alive anyway so he might as well break the glass and pull the alarm now before he regrets not doing so.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Brisketexan 105569]

While I wish it were different for all sorts of reasons, I am kind of enjoying the burgeoning horror of some in the GOP as they realize the mindless base they've created is driving a mass extermination event through their rejection of science and empiricism in the face of a global pandemic.

Fucking oopsie, you dumb shits.

Yeah...I wanted to believe that. But there aren’t any of those people. The GOP is all-in on being a death cult.

Kemp isn’t just being negligent.

He’s actually aggressively trying to kill people.

Unreal.

That's exactly what our governor did too a couple of months ago before everything went to shit.

Like I said, death cult. And yes, that’s EXACTLY what Abbott did in Texas several weeks ago. He has deaths on his hands. He is a purposeful murderer - his chose to take action resulting in death solely for political gain.

Again, the GOP is willing to kill people - and already has done so - for political gain. It is a criminal organization.

GOP governors have killed more Americans in the past month than ISIS has in total. You are more likely to be killed by a GOP governor than a Muslim terrorist. The numbers aren’t even close.

[SizzleChest 8291]

13 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I understand that purpose and reason for the limitation.  In terms of generalizing the findings (and there is a lot of that going on, see the stock market response for example), this is a limitation.  They had good titers in healthy group of younger individuals. The world is interpreting this as vaccine on the way! Everyone needs to slow their roll a bit. So far so good, but slow the roll. 

I did read that they had a cut of older subjects as well that would be released shortly.  Not sure if that was also from this Phase 1 study, or whether the article was referring to something out to the Phase 2 stuff that is wrapping up.

ETA: Here's the press release where they indicate they have older age groups, and the results for those age groups are pending.  Also substantial elderly in Phase 2.  

https://www.modernatx.com/modernas-work-potential-vaccine-against-covid-19

Evaluation of the durability of immune responses is ongoing, and participants will be followed for one year after the second vaccination, with scheduled blood collections throughout that period. An additional seven cohorts in this Phase 1 study have completed enrollment: a 50 µg cohort in adults 18-55 (n=15), three cohorts of older adults (n=30, ages 56-70, 25 µg, 50 µg, and 100 µg) and three cohorts of elderly adults (n=30, ages 71 and above, 25 µg, 50 µg, and 100 µg). These data are expected to be published separately. Given the increased morbidity and mortality of COVID-19 in older and elderly adults, additional evidence for the potential of a vaccine to protect this population is an urgent priority.

...

 

Both cohorts, healthy adults ages 18-55 years (n=300) and older adults ages 55 years and above (n=300), in the Company’s Phase 2 study of mRNA-1273 are fully enrolled. This Phase 2 placebo-controlled, dose-confirmation study is evaluating the safety, reactogenicity and immunogenicity of two vaccinations of mRNA-1273 given 28 days apart. Each participant is receiving placebo, a 50 μg or a 100 μg dose at both vaccinations.

 

 

Yeah, I wasn't arguing about the age range in Ph3.  Of course, it will expand.  If they decide to do a pediatric program, kids and adolescents will be enrolled.

It's the "OMFG, they didn't include more black and hispanic people in the Ph1 study!!!!!! How can then do this when these groups are disproportionately stricken with COVID-19!!!!" shit that is horribly wrong.  It's not even optics.  It's fucking science.

[washparkhorn 9939]

9 hours ago, justhookit said:

if you actually read (ok sue me I skimmed it) the 13 page document regarding the new reporting requirements this is more about more specific hospital info most of which I haven’t ever seen released to the public anyway. That may be a problem, but this doesn’t seem to be an attempt to distort the data and claim smaller numbers.

Everyone should familiarize themselves with Data Sciences. Remarkable science. Bleeding (literally) edge science - in real time. Trump has them working for him - as does everyone else. It's just the way things are done in the new territory of Big Data. Want to go down the rabbit hole - https://towardsdatascience.com/a-beginners-guide-to-the-data-science-pipeline-a4904b2d8ad3 and then look how fairness is predicted.

We live in interesting times. Hail to my future AI time machine overlords. 

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Edited July 16, 2020 by washparkhorn

[Tom 2960]

4 hours ago, Sbbruin said:

This is what we're dealing with in Orange County.  It's funny.  But it's not.

 

 

I like the cut of those two guys' jib.  Funny while also exposing the idiocy and irrational anger of the non-mask wearers.

 

"He's smart.  He's social distancing."

 

"That's a long walk, dude.  Congrats!"

 

"Dropping Dong."

[Degenerate Gardner 4104]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

Yeah...I wanted to believe that. But there aren’t any of those people. The GOP is all-in on being a death cult.

Like I said, death cult. And yes, that’s EXACTLY what Abbott did in Texas several weeks ago. He has deaths on his hands. He is a purposeful murderer - his chose to take action resulting in death solely for political gain.

Again, the GOP is willing to kill people - and already has done so - for political gain. It is a criminal organization.

GOP governors have killed more Americans in the past month than ISIS has in total. You are more likely to be killed by a GOP governor than a Muslim terrorist. The numbers aren’t even close.

 

More like an Indifferent to Death Cult amirite? The death isn't really the point, it's an insignificant byproduct of the constant triage needed to boost Trump at all costs. Some eggs are bound to be broken.

[Degenerate Gardner 4104]

2 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

It’s them working the ref.  We are going to look back on this and wonder why Fauci sounds like concerned Susan Collins when the entire country is on fucking fire.  Fauci is a dinosaur government official and he’s trying too hard to keep the Administration happy.  It doesn’t work with these vampires, they’re going to eat him alive anyway so he might as well break the glass and pull the alarm now before he regrets not doing so.

What is it that you suggest Fauci do? Going scorched earth (AKA the speaking unvarnished truth) about Covid and Trump will be his last move, at least in Fauci's current position of influence. He sees many more deaths ahead as well as Trump's madness with the nation trailing in tow. How and when can he act to serve the maximum benefit to the people? What can he do to save the most lives? Tough questions to answer prospectively for anyone.

[justhookit 4191]

11 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

I don't think Fauci should be "blamed" for anything.  He's a scientist.  He acts on data.  Early on, there were precious little data to act on, but one thing was known:  the medical community was very short on PPE and ventilators.  He advised the average Joe against wearing a mask, at least in part because he knew the front line workers would need them more.

This was mistake number 1 and in my opinion probably the biggest misstep we’ve made and I doubt it’s on Fauci. 

There were a number of better ways to handle it, including something like “we have a shortage of masks and our healthcare workers need them. In the meantime the general public should wear them if they already have them and if you don’t, instead of buying them you can make your own out of cloth, wear a bandana or any other face covering. We are working to resolve the shortage.”

Instead we get the fucking surgeon general actively telling people not to wear masks as late as what, April?

Politicians are gonna lie no matter what party and anyone could have spoken up at the time. Nobody did, because they all refuse to tell the truth to the people. Here we are.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

6 hours ago, Degenerate Gardner said:

What is it that you suggest Fauci do?

Stop moderating his language for start.

Recent Fauci: “We’re not doing great.”  

Better Fauci: “We are on fire, unless behavior changes, we are in serious trouble as a country.”

Listening to Fauci for me is like listening to a stand up comedian because he’s still minimizing reality to not upset the White House.  It’s depressing that he feels trapped but this is his moment to stand up for the greater good and he’s letting it go by.

It weirdly feels like Robert Mueller all over again where a highly respected career public servant is bending over backwards to not upset the apple cart. 

Edited July 16, 2020 by Hugo Stiglitz

[TXSG8R 3362]

7 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Stop moderating his language for start.

Recent Fauci: “We’re not doing great.”  

Better Fauci: “We are on fire, unless behavior changes, we are in serious trouble as a country.”

Listening to Fauci for me is like listening to a stand up comedian because he’s still minimizing reality to not upset the White House.  It’s depressing that he feels trapped but this is his moment to stand up for the greater good and he’s letting go by.

It weirdly feels like Robert Mueller all over again where a highly respected career public servant is bending over backwards to not upset the apple cart. 

Moderating is what gives him respectability.  Hyperbole doesn't help, and if/when things change again hyperbole will be used against him (as his moderated statements are being used against him now) even more. He has been frank about our situation without using excited language, exactly how you would expect a scientist to act.  Him being more aggressive wont convince a trumper to wear a mask anyway, so what is the point beyond polarizing him further?  Trumpers have to touch the hot stove, they aren't going to learn any other way.  I don't want Fauci pumping sunshine or heralding disaster, I want him to keep giving us the blunt truth.

EDIT:  I think its different from Mueller because his language was bound by legal mechanisms, not so much worry about upsetting an apple cart.  The DoJ put restrictions on both his investigation and his testimony.  

Edited July 16, 2020 by TXSG8R

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

How can you be hyperbolic about daily record setting infections, hospitalizations, and deaths?  

Look, I respect Fauci but when this is all said and done, history isn’t going to be kind to him. 

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

4 hours ago, justhookit said:

This was mistake number 1 and in my opinion probably the biggest misstep we’ve made and I doubt it’s on Fauci. 

There were a number of better ways to handle it, including something like “we have a shortage of masks and our healthcare workers need them. In the meantime the general public should wear them if they already have them and if you don’t, instead of buying them you can make your own out of cloth, wear a bandana or any other face covering. We are working to resolve the shortage.”

Instead we get the fucking surgeon general actively telling people not to wear masks as late as what, April?

Politicians are gonna lie no matter what party and anyone could have spoken up at the time. Nobody did, because they all refuse to tell the truth to the people. Here we are.

I argue that it is a little more complicated than that, but I agree that laying the blame at Fauci's feet would be in error.

Way back in January (26) and February (12 & 25), Dr. Messonier with the CDC held telebriefings with media. A couple of things stand out. At that time, it appears that the asymptomatic spread was not clearly understood (I am basing this on her comments from the transcript available on the website). She discussed the concern of availability of PPE and that people who were around (either healthcare workers or family) quarantined individuals should wear facial protection. IIRC, she mentioned the N95 masks. Pity they didn't put them on the patients, but perhaps that was something not yet understood. At the time of the Feb 12 briefing, I'm not even sure if they yet knew that there were two strains of the virus circulating and that the European version was more effective.

Knowing in hindsight the 1)Administration's pursuit of the grift and 2) the great American  Toilet Paper Hoarding of 2020, I have  my doubts that it would have gone a whole lot better. Adding in the shutdown of Messonier after her briefing on the 25 (when Trump was in India) and when her tenor was much more concerned (which led to the attacks on her, and the shutdown of info by the WH), the active purge of non Trump loyalists throughout the rank and file, it is not surprising that it was a royal screw up. The non politicians speaking up already resulted in Messonier being silenced, and she was the warning beacon that took the chance. There are only so many infectious disease experts that the CDC could afford to sacrifice, unless one considers Peter Fucking Navarro to be an expert.

When the Administration's number one concern is money and not people, you have a lot of collateral damage. It's the *Melania Jacket Response combined with the *HCQ philosophy and the results are deadly to the public, but the public servants in charge (Trump, the Trump Family Organization, Trump Friends, Kelly Make A Buck Off of Pain and Misery Loeffler)--not so much.

In sum, I agree with you that mistakes were made--many many mistakes, but at least the WH wasn't pushing them out of windows and we were able to receive some info along the way (other than--"nothing to see here")

*I don't care, do you & *what have you got to lose?

Edited July 16, 2020 by Mrs Whiggins
Edit

[Sawbonz 27777]

58 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

How can you be hyperbolic about daily record setting infections, hospitalizations, and deaths?  

Look, I respect Fauci but when this is all said and done, history isn’t going to be kind to him. 

You have said a lot of stupid shit over the years but this is ridiculous. This man is doing everything he possibly can  with basically both hands tied behind his back. Do you think if he gets himself kicked out whoever replaces him will do a better job? This is the shit he is dealing with

 

 

Edited July 16, 2020 by Sawbonz

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

1 minute ago, Sawbonz said:

You have said a lot of stupid shit over the years but this is ridiculous. This man is doing everything in with basically both hands tied behind his back. Do you think if he gets himself kicked out whoever replaces him will do a better job? This is the shit he is dealing with

This is exactly what the Trump administration does to people, it puts them in moral checkmate by getting them to think they are one of the good ones on the inside protecting the people from an even worse regime if they leave.  It’s a rationalization to chose the path of least resistance. Sorry if I don’t find that honorable.  

[TXSG8R 3362]

50 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

How can you be hyperbolic about daily record setting infections, hospitalizations, and deaths?  

Look, I respect Fauci but when this is all said and done, history isn’t going to be kind to him. 

Because there's a difference between "I encourage everyone to wear a mask, failure to do so leads to unnecessary deaths" and "if we don't wear masks everyone is going to die."  The only thing that might get a trumper's attention is the latter, and all they will do is call bullshit when one person recovers in a hospital.  Look at the DT threads, people will just keep rationalizing their actions and decisions no matter what the overwhelming evidence says. 

I don't see how history will judge Fauci unfairly.  He has done the best he can with the facts and tools available to him, like most of the world's scientists.  He cant overcome Trump's megaphone no matter how much he ramps up his language, so why strain his credibility?  Rational people will listen, irrational people will listen to dear leader and tune him out.  Id like to say this wont be a problem after November but Trump's cult isn't going away even if he loses.  

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

10 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

You have said a lot of stupid shit over the years but this is ridiculous. This man is doing everything he possibly can  with basically both hands tied behind his back. Do you think if he gets himself kicked out whoever replaces him will do a better job? This is the shit he is dealing with

 

 

That was the fruition of what I posted on a page ago about the hospital data. Lot of money just went *poof* to Peter Thiel et al for the HHS software that is now going to be manipulated w/o oversight. Question that is paramount will be: what will reporters do? You can no longer trust the WH for accurate data. How long will it be before the CDC is shut out, or the non Trump employees are forced out for not signing purity oaths?

Dark days, people.

[TXSG8R 3362]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

This is exactly what the Trump administration does to people, it puts them in moral checkmate by getting them to think they are one of the good ones on the inside protecting the people from an even worse regime if they leave.  It’s a rationalization to chose the path of least resistance. Sorry if I don’t find that honorable.  

I think you are oversimplifying.  One example, some people have written that the main reason the task force didn't push masks in the US, despite pretty clear evidence of their effect early on, was because of how vastly unprepared we were with PPE.  If they suggested masks were substantial to protecting yourself from the disease, citizens would have made a run on N95s and gobbled up all the PPE needed for medical personnel.  So they softened the language to facial coverings and encouraged shit like scarves, bandanas, etc.  People are using that against Fauci as one of the times he was wrong and hes sitting there eating shit about it while still encouraging people to do the right things.  He is absolutely everything we could want in a public servant.  

They cant always publish the unvarnished truth because that can have unintended consequences that makes things worse, especially it seems when you're talking about Americans.  You can encourage people to calmly head for the exits, or you can yell fire and hope for the best.  He is trying to push people to the exits while the WH tells people to ignore all the smoke and keep feeding money into the slot machines.  Fauci isnt the problem, and no matter how hard he tries he will never overcome the trump's alternative facts to his cult.  

[Jive Turkey 12722]

Trump will get to the bottom of this. He’ll grill Putin, I’m sure. 

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

5 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

He is absolutely everything we could want in a public servant.  

So were many other men that did their best to do the right thing as they knew it until they got eaten alive.  Just ask Rod Rosenstein, Andy McCabe, Robert Mueller, John McCain, General Mattis, Gen. McMaster, Lisa Page, Peter Strozk, Bruce Ohr, Col. Vindman, Comey. 

There are no winning moves for Fauci.  His fate will be the same as one of the above.  My only hope is that he maximizes his credibility for the greater good.  You can argue that he is doing that now but from my perspective, he isn’t. 

[TXSG8R 3362]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

So were many other men that did their best to do the right thing as they knew it until they got eaten alive.  Just ask Rod Rosenstein, Andy McCabe, Robert Mueller, John McCain, General Mattis, Gen. McMaster, Lisa Page, Peter Strozk, Bruce Ohr, Col. Vindman, Comey. 

There are no winning moves for Fauci.  His fate will be the same as one of the above.  My only hope is that he maximizes his credibility for the greater good.  You can argue that he is doing that now but from my perspective, he isn’t. 

So you just want him to yell fire and hope for the best?  Please explain how a change in his language will reach anyone on the trump side of the spectrum?  If it wont, why do it?  

[jimmyjazz 46471]

30 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

This is exactly what the Trump administration does to people, it puts them in moral checkmate by getting them to think they are one of the good ones on the inside protecting the people from an even worse regime if they leave.  It’s a rationalization to chose the path of least resistance. Sorry if I don’t find that honorable.  

Look, it's right in front of your face.  Without Anthony Fauci, the very best we could hope for in terms of a science leader is Deborah Birx.  If you think her efforts would have been as successful as Fauci's, you're nuts.

Fauci could have delivered the unvarnished truth to your satisfaction . . . once.  And then we'd be in worse shape, because Birx and useless idiots like Jerome Adams (Surgeon General) would be delivering an even more watered-down version of the truth.

[NameAlreadyInUse 5138]

38 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

This is exactly what the Trump administration does to people, it puts them in moral checkmate by getting them to think they are one of the good ones on the inside protecting the people from an even worse regime if they leave.  It’s a rationalization to chose the path of least resistance. Sorry if I don’t find that honorable.  

It's not a rationalization if it's fucking true man.  We've watched over and over the people who have a conscience being replaced with sycophants and yes men who really fuck things up.  If I were in Fauci's position I'd be absolutely right to think that it will only get worse if I'm not there acting as a firewall.

7 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

So were many other men that did their best to do the right thing as they knew it until they got eaten alive.  Just ask Rod Rosenstein, Andy McCabe, Robert Mueller, John McCain, General Mattis, Gen. McMaster, Lisa Page, Peter Strozk, Bruce Ohr, Col. Vindman, Comey. 

There are no winning moves for Fauci.  His fate will be the same as one of the above.  My only hope is that he maximizes his credibility for the greater good.  You can argue that he is doing that now but from my perspective, he isn’t. 

And this just proves my point.  He KNOWS it will get worse if he gets replaced.  He's seen multiple examples of how the replacements are terrible. So in order to have a platform to do what he can, his option is to get as close to the line as he can without going over and getting himself replaced.  Because we know the person who is getting replaced is either going to have a vested interest in a course of action and therefore will push it, or will be wildly incompetent and will give bad advice, or will be willfully ignorant and will actively campaign to spread this around enough for herd immunity.  

Fauci is the best we can hope for in this role at this time with this president, so his best course of action is to be as forceful as he can be without getting himself fired.  I think he's done a decent job of that, though he's gone far enough now that the idiot in charge won't even talk to him, so he's not being effective as he could be.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Y’all act like if Fauci gets fired or resigns he disappears. 

The opposite is true. Fauci is being muzzled by the Administration because he is an employee.  

Do you really think CNN wouldn’t love to have Fauci on every night talking to the American public?  

He could do that if he wasn’t on the inside. 

This is his moment to act and he’s deciding to obey instead. 

[Continental Op 3934]

Good grief shut your stupid cockhole, Hugo.   

[NameAlreadyInUse 5138]

You act like he'd still have access to all the information if he wasn't in his position. 

What you are really advocating for is that Fauci feeds information to someone else who is credible who can cross the line without fear of reprisal.  I'd be more on board with that then replacing Fauci with a moron, which is what you are advocating.  I'm in favor of moron unemployment, though.

[TXSG8R 3362]

10 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Y’all act like if Fauci gets fired or resigns he disappears. 

The opposite is true. Fauci is being muzzled by the Administration because he is an employee.  

Do you really think CNN wouldn’t love to have Fauci on every night talking to the American public?  

He could do that if he wasn’t on the inside. 

This is his moment to act and he’s deciding to obey instead. 

So with one option he gets pulled in front of congress on the reg for testimony, where he contradicts trump and tells the truth.  In the other option he gets paid to be on CNN and reaches only the people that would listen to him anyway, and gets the bonus of being labeled a communist news network shill and erodes any semblance of impartiality and public service.  

He tells the truth.  Every.  Time.  How many times have we thought he was getting fired at this point?  He isn't obeying shit, he says what he needs to for the greatest public impact.  If you're confused on what obedience looks like just listen to Azar instead.  If Fauci goes away Birx, Azar, Adams, etc become the new mouthpieces for "science" from the administration.  This isnt the hill to die on man.  

[Dnaguy 12328]

13 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Y’all act like if Fauci gets fired or resigns he disappears. 

The opposite is true. Fauci is being muzzled by the Administration because he is an employee.  

Do you really think CNN wouldn’t love to have Fauci on every night talking to the American public?  

He could do that if he wasn’t on the inside. 

This is his moment to act and he’s deciding to obey instead. 

I disagree with this take, but I understand your though process / reason for thinking this.

Again, I just disagree.

 

What I don't disagree with is that everything Trump touching turns to shit.

Even people like Fauci, who has been an amazing public servant for his entire life can be sullied by the mierda touch of Trump.

That's how bad he his.

All the previous good people in his administrations are permanently marked with his scarlet letter.... and rightly so.

There's never a 100% right answer so I feel these people struggled with just quitting all the time. They justified staying and the longer they stayed, the longer the stain set in.

But would be better off without Fauci. Probably not... but that's just my take.

Trump is the problem here. 

He is the cancer that is the existential threat to the American body.

Arguing over the halitosis doesn't solve the cancer eating away at the bones.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

I’m just sick of the reflexiveness to protect people in this Administration.  None of them are going to save us.  Period.  There are no heroes in Trump’s federal government but we love to pretend like there are. 

[SizzleChest 8291]

Fauci is not part of the Trump admin.  He's been at NIH for years.  If you are going to hold Fauci up to this level of scrutiny, why not his boss at NIH, Francis Collins? 

And if you think Fauci quitting so he can speak "unvarnished truth" or whatever the fuck that is will help, that's just not a rational view.  He would come off as disgruntled, political, and his approval numbers would drop, rendering his trustworthiness largely useless.  Trump and Pence can't bash him like they want to, because he's still in government.  This is not hard to understand.

He's not a hero, he's just trying to do his fucking job.

Edited July 16, 2020 by SizzleChest

[Firemans4Horn 18302]

2 hours ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

That was the fruition of what I posted on a page ago about the hospital data. Lot of money just went *poof* to Peter Thiel et al for the HHS software that is now going to be manipulated w/o oversight. Question that is paramount will be: what will reporters do? You can no longer trust the WH for accurate data. How long will it be before the CDC is shut out, or the non Trump employees are forced out for not signing purity oaths?

Dark days, people.

no more reporting no more cases, right?

Trump and his cronies are a death cult.

 

 

[Beau Vine 54838]

2 hours ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

That was the fruition of what I posted on a page ago about the hospital data. Lot of money just went *poof* to Peter Thiel et al for the HHS software that is now going to be manipulated w/o oversight. Question that is paramount will be: what will reporters do? You can no longer trust the WH for accurate data. How long will it be before the CDC is shut out, or the non Trump employees are forced out for not signing purity oaths?

Dark days, people.

Isn't the JHU data scraped off of state sites?  

[tchookem 3922]

no more reporting no more cases, right?
Trump and his cronies are a death cult.
 
 

They don't gotta burn the books, they just remove'em.

[Degenerate Gardner 4104]

4 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Stop moderating his language for start.

Recent Fauci: “We’re not doing great.”  

Better Fauci: “We are on fire, unless behavior changes, we are in serious trouble as a country.”

Listening to Fauci for me is like listening to a stand up comedian because he’s still minimizing reality to not upset the White House.  It’s depressing that he feels trapped but this is his moment to stand up for the greater good and he’s letting it go by.

It weirdly feels like Robert Mueller all over again where a highly respected career public servant is bending over backwards to not upset the apple cart. 

Perhaps you will be proven right once we have the gift of retrospection. Until then I have a finite number of fucks to give, and honorable public servants making errors in good faith won't earn many of them.

[RomaVicta 30072]

Hey look, we're arguing about Fauci! Who does that serve?

[JimmyJames 12271]

40 minutes ago, Firemans4Horn said:

no more reporting no more cases, right?

Trump and his cronies are a death cult.

 

 

LOL at the trump administration trying to control information about covid. Just like everything else they do this is insanely stupid and will backfire. 
 

Just like everything else in the trump administration, the real numbers will leak out eventually, trump will claim everything is great, nobody will believe him except his idiotic base and he will eventually get removed from the White House by force. The only question is the date that happens. 

[jimmyjazz 46471]

6 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Hey look, we're arguing about Fauci! Who does that serve?

It's almost as if Hugo is targeted by . . . well, who?  Hmmm.

The great irony is that over the last couple of years, I predicted and feared Russian meddling in social media leading up to the 2020 election, specifically to promote more discord.  As it turns out, we've fucked ourselves 6 ways from Sunday and there is practically no need for Russia to fan the flames.  It's the "never interrupt your enemy when he's making a mistake" theory.

[TwiceHorn 31679]

4 hours ago, TXSG8R said:

Moderating is what gives him respectability.  Hyperbole doesn't help, and if/when things change again hyperbole will be used against him (as his moderated statements are being used against him now) even more. He has been frank about our situation without using excited language, exactly how you would expect a scientist to act.  Him being more aggressive wont convince a trumper to wear a mask anyway, so what is the point beyond polarizing him further?  Trumpers have to touch the hot stove, they aren't going to learn any other way.  I don't want Fauci pumping sunshine or heralding disaster, I want him to keep giving us the blunt truth.

EDIT:  I think its different from Mueller because his language was bound by legal mechanisms, not so much worry about upsetting an apple cart.  The DoJ put restrictions on both his investigation and his testimony.  

I think I agree.

Plus, being immoderate and getting shitcanned and/or silenced and replaced by a hack does no one any good.