CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk

[Nivek 16992]

8 hours ago, trauma babe said:

Lost a somewhat close friend from high school days today, not to COVID but to his belief that he, as a welder, understood the viral transmission ("ergo, my wearing a mask is pointless," - his mic drop line) better than almost every medical professional in the world (and 100% of medical professionals directly engaged with SARS-CoV-2). He was not this stupid, selfish, and proud of contrarianism in high school. It's fucking unreal what has happened to so many people in this country cognitively.  

Guess who he's going to vote for. A hint: telling him that he's wasting his vote is "the true fascism."

My lame opinion: 

Being pro-intellect, science, reading, is more difficult and less comforting.  No one is going to pat you on the back or give you attention for knowing plate tectonics.  However, if you decide the earth is hollow and there is a dead goose inside, then you will find other dumbasses to give you attention.   

[Guest Lobo]

8 hours ago, trauma babe said:

Lost a somewhat close friend from high school days today, not to COVID but to his belief that he, as a welder, understood the viral transmission ("ergo, my wearing a mask is pointless," - his mic drop line) better than almost every medical professional in the world (and 100% of medical professionals directly engaged with SARS-CoV-2). He was not this stupid, selfish, and proud of contrarianism in high school. It's fucking unreal what has happened to so many people in this country cognitively.  

Guess who he's going to vote for. A hint: telling him that he's wasting his vote is "the true fascism."

I wonder what his rationale for wearing a mask while welding is?  

[Beantown Express 2.0 6559]

1 hour ago, Mo Horn said:

Someone please explain to me what these politicians think is the political gain for demanding that schools reopen. The huge majority of people oppose it. I know that symbolizes "normal" but everyone knows that's not really the case. I get why Dotard is pushing it, but why are state leaders doing it, other then just sucking up to him? There is zero political gain, and tons to lose. Just crazy, imo. 

It has nothing and I mean nothing to do with the mental or phyical health of the children of this country.  It’s all about the economy.  Trump can’t win the election without the economy getting back to normal.  Like Anastasis said above, many people can’t go back to work if they don’t have their kids getting “day care” (public school) so if there is no school, then millions of people can’t go to work and the economy continues to tank (except for the stock market because that is for the Uber rich to keep making their money).  What will be interesting is that many companies, like mine, have announced they will not open their offices until September at the earliest.  I have friends that work for companies that have said their offices will be shut the remainder of 2020.  Lastly, even if they make public schools open end of August or beginning of September andybody go the over/under on how many weeks until most of these schools are forced to go back to virtual because of students testing positive for Covid.  I give it 2 weeks.

[Wanker Bob 379]

6 minutes ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

It has nothing and I mean nothing to do with the mental or phyical health of the children of this country.  It’s all about the economy.  Trump can’t win the election without the economy getting back to normal.  Like Anastasis said above, many people can’t go back to work if they don’t have their kids getting “day care” (public school) so if there is no school, then millions of people can’t go to work and the economy continues to tank (except for the stock market because that is for the Uber rich to keep making their money).  What will be interesting is that many companies, like mine, have announced they will not open their offices until September at the earliest.  I have friends that work for companies that have said their offices will be shut the remainder of 2020.  Lastly, even if they make public schools open end of August or beginning of September andybody go the over/under on how many weeks until most of these schools are forced to go back to virtual because of students testing positive for Covid.  I give it 2 weeks.

Testing students?

[Sawbonz 27595]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

It’s more than just symbolizing normalcy. People need to pay their mortgages. In addition to its education function, the public school system is government funded day care that allows us to manage the dual income household standard necessary to maintain The illusion of a middle class. 

There are also significant psychological effects on young people being forced to isolate. At some point those mental (and related physical) health issues  must be weighed against the risks posed by opening. It really sucks that we have been put in this situation so needlessly 

[Red Five 40898]

It has nothing and I mean nothing to do with the mental or phyical health of the children of this country.  It’s all about the economy.  Trump can’t win the election without the economy getting back to normal.  Like Anastasis said above, many people can’t go back to work if they don’t have their kids getting “day care” (public school) so if there is no school, then millions of people can’t go to work and the economy continues to tank (except for the stock market because that is for the Uber rich to keep making their money).  What will be interesting is that many companies, like mine, have announced they will not open their offices until September at the earliest.  I have friends that work for companies that have said their offices will be shut the remainder of 2020.  Lastly, even if they make public schools open end of August or beginning of September andybody go the over/under on how many weeks until most of these schools are forced to go back to virtual because of students testing positive for Covid.  I give it 2 weeks.

My office was just extended until January.

[Anastasis 23489]

23 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

There are also significant psychological effects on young people being forced to isolate. At some point those mental (and related physical) health issues  must be weighed against the risks posed by opening. It really sucks that we have been put in this situation so needlessly 

Agreed. That is large part of why we are letting our kids continue to play their sports in limited way (3v3) and are looking for small edu pods. The mental health and interpersonal development aspects of all this shit won’t be fully uncovered for years. I already see hints of it in my own kids. 

[Sawbonz 27595]

11 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Agreed. That is large part of why we are letting our kids continue to play their sports in limited way (3v3) and are looking for small edu pods. The mental health and interpersonal development aspects of all this shit won’t be fully uncovered for years. I already see hints of it in my own kids. 

My oldest had anxiety and near panic attacks early on during the shutdown and she had a lot of anxiety driven GI issues. She’s very emotionally strong so I was shocked and worried. Having a finite time frame helped but now that start of school keeps getting pushed back her anxiety level is rising again. Many of her friends are the same. These are all very high performing students involved in sports and a multitude of school and community organizations. Our kids are all middle school and up but I can imagine the elementary aged kids are also having issues with this not to mention the  risk of falling behind level academically. 
 

I think back to Memorial Day when we had this thing under wraps. If Abbott had just tied reopening to mask usage we would be in a completely different place right now

[Bama Chick 28596]

And it’s really disheartening that those of us who aren’t morons and have serious concerns about schools opening (all whole simultaneously acknowledging that keeping them closed is also not great) get accused of every political motive under the sun.

I just don’t want teachers and other school workers to die. I don’t want kids to die. I don’t want kids that get sick but don’t die to have life long health issues.

I have a daughter leaving for college in two weeks. She is not going to get any kind of college experience that any of us would recognize. None of the traditional events for new freshmen. Sorority recruitment done over Zoom. No football games or tailgating. No fraternity parties. No mixers. No sneaking into bars. No studying at the library. No hanging out at the dining halls or eateries at the student center. No events to meet other students. Classes that are half virtual, half in person with limited numbers and no interaction.

I keep telling myself it will all work out and she’ll make do but freshman year so often sets the tone for one’s whole college experience.

Her senior year was ruined and I’m afraid that her college experience will be too.

Auburn has a lottery to live on campus because they don’t have enough dorm space for every freshman to live on campus and initially I was upset she didn’t get in.

Now I’m thankful she’ll be in an apartment with only one roommate so she won’t be under the same roof with hundreds of strangers.

All our choices are bad. But when the choices are - everything operates as normal but could result in a bunch of dead people or living in semi-isolation and all the normal fun stuff is canceled but will save lives; I’m choosing the option that results in fewer dead people.

[Sawbonz 27595]

I’m not talking about “fun stuff”. I’m talking about psychological needs. Where is the balance between acceptable number of dead people from covid versus permanently damaged young people from these policies? I don’t have the answer, but that’s what we as a society have to figure out. 

[Sawbonz 27595]

@Bama Chick I missed the time frame for edit but wanted to apologize for trivializing your fun stuff comment. This whole thing sucks so bad and I feel terrible for the 2020 seniors and rising college freshman. 

Edited July 26, 2020 by Sawbonz

[mchookem 16404]

i feel terrible for ALL of us. it's really, really hard to not just feel like we're all completely fucked. 

there might have been a 'right' or 'better' choice 2-3 months ago, but we've long since passed that point.

now we have a series of really bad to terrible choices. our essential 'Americaness' has really fucked us all.

sigh. or i'm just having a bad day 😕

Edited July 26, 2020 by mchookem

[lemonlime 5503]

48 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

I’m not talking about “fun stuff”. I’m talking about psychological needs. Where is the balance between acceptable number of dead people from covid versus permanently damaged young people from these policies? I don’t have the answer, but that’s what we as a society have to figure out. 

I think we need to get shit under control before we take on this balancing act.  I completely agree about kids' psychological needs.  But when they go back to school and lose their friends or their teachers, their psychological needs are going to be damaged anyway.  And I'm not sure going to school with no recess, physically separated by everyone is psychologically healthy or productive anyway.

[tchookem 3919]

I think we need to get shit under control before we take on this balancing act.  I completely agree about kids' psychological needs.  But when they go back to school and lose their friends or their teachers, their psychological needs are going to be damaged anyway.  And I'm not sure going to school with no recess, physically separated by everyone is psychologically healthy or productive anyway.

Yeah, kids want a return to normalcy. Parents will settle for the illusion of normalcy and as long as the kids are out of the house, it will appear normal to the parents. But the school they'll be returning to anything but normal. Basically teachers will be forced to lockdown kids for 8 hours. Ask your kids what's its like on a STARR day, now tell them to expect that everyday. All that, AND the shitshow cycle will still continue.

[Bama Chick 28596]

[mention=332]Bama Chick[/mention] I missed the time frame for edit but wanted to apologize for trivializing your fun stuff comment. This whole thing sucks so bad and I feel terrible for the 2020 seniors and rising college freshman. 

Yeah but missing the “fun stuff” WILL have a psychological impact.

What do you hold dear from your college years?

Late nights bullshitting in a dorm lounge.

Football games.

Big fun parties.

Pep rallies.

Not Professor BlahBlah’s biology lecture.

The “fun stuff” is a huge part of the college experience - that is the social aspect that people point to as leaving psychological damage.

No school age kids are clamoring to go back for homework and lectures - they want their friends and hanging out a lunch and club meetings and sports teams and pep rallies and Friday Night Lights and prom and homecoming.

That’s all “fun stuff” too.

And guess what? Even if we open schools they most likely aren’t getting any of that “fun stuff”.

They’ll be isolated in assigned small groups, get their class work, and be told to GTFO.

They ain’t getting any where close to “normal” in a school building if they go back. All they’ll be getting is higher risk of catching and spreading the virus.

What’s the benefit psychologically?

[lemonlime 5503]

The idea that we can have any kind of health until we get the virus under control is absurd.  A strong economy or emotionally healthy children don't happen in a vacuum.   If we can't get to basic physical health, we aren't going to be healthy in any other way.

[Mdhorn 5989]

5 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

There are also significant psychological effects on young people being forced to isolate. At some point those mental (and related physical) health issues  must be weighed against the risks posed by opening. It really sucks that we have been put in this situation so needlessly 

So much this--younger kids aren't developing social skills. And while dad and mom can put on a mask and escape to go to Home Depot or a grocery store, kids have nowhere to go.  It's really difficult for them and it's going to be worse if they go to school and an act of rebellion is simply to just remove your mask.  The kids have it tough but they'll have to buckle down somehow and parents will need to parent and probably teach some too.  There's no fall fairs or carnivals to look forward to either, or at least not here.  

The ideal situation would've been for everybody to just bite the bullet and self quarantine for two weeks, but freedom and ignorance prevailed.  

Edited July 26, 2020 by Mdhorn

[Anastasis 23489]

1 hour ago, Bama Chick said:

They ain’t getting any where close to “normal” in a school building if they go back. All they’ll be getting is higher risk of catching and spreading the virus.

What’s the benefit psychologically?

 

I am not sure that I totally understand your perspective here, Bama.  You are sending your daughter off to Auburn in a couple weeks, right?

[Anastasis 23489]

29 minutes ago, Mdhorn said:

The ideal situation would've been for everybody to just bite the bullet and self quarantine for two weeks, but freedom and ignorance prevailed.  

A few more weeks of lock down initially coupled with universal mask wearing and most of this shit would be in the rear view mirror.  But pride and selfishness is center stage. 

[Wanker Bob 379]

5 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

There are also significant psychological effects on young people being forced to isolate. At some point those mental (and related physical) health issues  must be weighed against the risks posed by opening. It really sucks that we have been put in this situation so needlessly 

I keep seeing this and it's completely bullshit in this situation. No one is saying you have to lock the kid in a room for a year by himself. You pick one or two relatives or friends with kids around the same age and you let them socialize with them. We've been doing that and they're fine. Every family doing that would be far far better than just taking all the kids at once and putting them in a giant covid factory to just infect the country at large. 

I feel terrible for families that are having to make sacrifices and find a way to raise their kids in this environment but sacrificing the entire country to covid so they can have a free babysitter again is just stupid. 

[Anastasis 23489]

4 minutes ago, Wanker Bob said:

I keep seeing this and it's completely bullshit in this situation. No one is saying you have to lock the kid in a room for a year by himself. You pick one or two relatives or friends with kids around the same age and you let them socialize with them. We've been doing that and they're fine. Every family doing that would be far far better than just taking all the kids at once and putting them in a giant covid factory to just infect the country at large. 

I feel terrible for families that are having to make sacrifices and find a way to raise their kids in this environment but sacrificing the entire country to covid so they can have a free babysitter again is just stupid. 

Not everybody has the same situation man.  I find it real hard to judge any parent trying to do the best for their kids right now, in whatever way they know and understand. Unless you are just off on planet hoax no mask etc. I think that everybody needs some leeway. We're all just trying to navigate a fraught situation. 

[Sawbonz 27595]

7 minutes ago, Wanker Bob said:

I keep seeing this and it's completely bullshit in this situation. No one is saying you have to lock the kid in a room for a year by himself. You pick one or two relatives or friends with kids around the same age and you let them socialize with them. We've been doing that and they're fine. Every family doing that would be far far better than just taking all the kids at once and putting them in a giant covid factory to just infect the country at large. 

I feel terrible for families that are having to make sacrifices and find a way to raise their kids in this environment but sacrificing the entire country to covid so they can have a free babysitter again is just stupid. 

How many teenage children do you have? We have 4. 2 are doing fine with what you describe and one is really struggling. One doesn’t give a shit.  We are friends with a couple who are both pediatricians and have 4 of their own and they see literally a hundred a week in the office between the 2 of them. It’s not bullshit it’s a real problem 

Edited July 26, 2020 by Sawbonz

[jimmyjazz 46221]

1 hour ago, lemonlime said:

The idea that we can have any kind of health until we get the virus under control is absurd.  A strong economy or emotionally healthy children don't happen in a vacuum.   If we can't get to basic physical health, we aren't going to be healthy in any other way.

There was no scenario under which the economy wasn't going to take a major hit.  Actuarials put the average future value of a human life at $5M.  A complete economic shutdown would have saved the vast majority of those costs . . . and created massive negative economic consequences, much of which we have incurred. 

Doing nothing would have cost us ~ $10T in future value, assuming 2M fatalities.

There is no "good answer".  I'll lean towards saving lives.

[RomaVicta 30031]

9 hours ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

Governor DeSantis of Florida has vetoed funding for what is one of the best distance learning programs in the country. That means voters won't have the options Senator Scott prefers for his precious descendants.

These are such vile people. 

[Brisketexan 105432]

8 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Governor DeSantis of Florida has vetoed funding for what is one of the best distance learning programs in the country. That means voters won't have the options Senator Scott prefers for his precious descendants.

These are such vile people. 

This.  They aren't just a death cult, they're a murder cult.

If it might help someone who hasn't contributed $1 million or better to their campaign, they categorically oppose it.  That's pretty much the entire thought process.

[Wanker Bob 379]

53 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

How many teenage children do you have? We have 4. 2 are doing fine with what you describe and one is really struggling. One doesn’t give a shit.  We are friends with a couple who are both pediatricians and have 4 of their own and they see literally a hundred a week in the office between the 2 of them. It’s not bullshit it’s a real problem 

1

Didn't say it wasn't a problem. Said compared to cranking the covid infection machine up to 11 for the entire society by mass opening schools it's a way better thing to navigate. Also said for that reason it's completely bullshit to use that as an excuse for opening up schools.  

Everything is a problem right now. These kids are going to have to deal with it and far worse as they grow up because this shit isn't ending with this pandemic. Every country has completely evil, horrific people in it. America has the most evil and horrific running the entire country. There are not going to be easy choices and easy lives going forward and they'll have to get used to navigating it. Consider this good training for them. 

Edited July 26, 2020 by Wanker Bob

[RDCanecutter 26476]

I talked two Covid deniers into taking precautions today. On the off chance that you want to try, here's what happened.

I wished them well, and asked them to reconsider some stuff they'd been posting about doing (piling up inside social settings with other unmasked people, these weren't Covid parties by design, but might as well be.) I didn't tell them to do a damn thing, just asked them to "reconsider." Also never mentioned "masks," just how it was worse inside with others.

I got back a predictable response from one where he'd been all over the country and thought virus reports were overblown.

This is where I would normally break down his argument. I didn't. I didn't say shit.

About 5 hours later, I got another message from him, where he allowed how he did pretty much self-quarantine a good bit of the time. After that, I joked that he'd probably survive a nuclear war, but followed up with a highly specific local case about a place I used to hang out that had somebody turn up infected. Again, not telling him to do anything, because he'd just dig in. I don't mention that this place actually took more precautions than he did, he's listening, no need to rub it in.

After that, we sort of met in the middle, just small talk about how the virus sucked. The other dude had been lurking, he jumped in and said he really needed to start taking masking seriously. He brought up masks, not me. We shot the shit some more, and made plans for a post-vaccination time.

I couldn't have argued these guys into anything. I was ready to try, had 8 different lines of attack. But lines of attack would have seen them throw up defenses. They knew deep down what to do, they just needed space to make it their own decision.

[Anastasis 23489]

2 minutes ago, Wanker Bob said:

1

Didn't say it wasn't a problem. Said compared to cranking the covid infection machine up to 11 for the entire society by mass opening schools it's a way better thing to navigate. Also said for that reason it's completely bullshit to use that as an excuse for opening up schools.  

Everything is a problem right now. These kids are going to have to deal with it and far worse as they grow up because this shit isn't ending with this pandemic. Every country has completely evil, horrific people in it. America has the most evil and horrific running the entire country. There are not going to be easy choices and easy lives going forward and they'll have to get used to navigating it. Consider this good training for them. 

Stop being such a fucking wanker. 

[BrickHorn 18289]

3 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

I talked two Covid deniers into taking precautions today. On the off chance that you want to try, here's what happened.

I wished them well, and asked them to reconsider some stuff they'd been posting about doing (piling up inside social settings with other unmasked people, these weren't Covid parties by design, but might as well be.) I didn't tell them to do a damn thing, just asked them to "reconsider." Also never mentioned "masks," just how it was worse inside with others.

I got back a predictable response from one where he'd been all over the country and thought virus reports were overblown.

This is where I would normally break down his argument. I didn't. I didn't say shit.

About 5 hours later, I got another message from him, where he allowed how he did pretty much self-quarantine a good bit of the time. After that, I joked that he'd probably survive a nuclear war, but followed up with a highly specific local case about a place I used to hang out that had somebody turn up infected. Again, not telling him to do anything, because he'd just dig in. I don't mention that this place actually took more precautions than he did, he's listening, no need to rub it in.

After that, we sort of met in the middle, just small talk about how the virus sucked. The other dude had been lurking, he jumped in and said he really needed to start taking masking seriously. He brought up masks, not me. We shot the shit some more, and made plans for a post-vaccination time.

I couldn't have argued these guys into anything. I was ready to try, had 8 different lines of attack. But lines of attack would have seen them throw up defenses. They knew deep down what to do, they just needed space to make it their own decision.

This is good advice. 

[Bevo14 8380]

They shouldn't open schools and universities, but man online classes fuckin suck and universities need to think about testing and evaluation online more. Grading midterms and like 1/3 of these dudettes and dudes cheated. Of course, the answer they copied off the internet is completely wrong so it didn't exactly pay off.

Edited July 26, 2020 by Bevo14

[Beantown Express 2.0 6559]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

This.  They aren't just a death cult, they're a murder cult.

If it might help someone who hasn't contributed $1 million or better to their campaign, they categorically oppose it.  That's pretty much the entire thought process.

The entire Republican leadership makes the Mayor from Amity Island in Jaws look like a good, caring human being and all that guy cared about was "summer dollars" for the town and not the possible loss of life from a shark attack.  Trump and his minions are yelling at everybody to get in the water while a shark is feeding right in front of them and sadly about 40% of the people will willingly walk into the ocean because its better to have a few people die than have the souvenir stand and some ice cream shop go bankrupt.  Oh, and I would rather have Amity Mayor Larry Vaughn as my President right now because even with all the death he could rock a 1970's sport coat like no other. 

[Gengs1 2583]

Let’s get this shit under control before we speculate about the kids, they will be fine, most of them are glued to the iPads and phones to care. Bigger impact would be if they take away their internet then meeting their friends 

[Sawbonz 27595]

10 minutes ago, Wanker Bob said:

1

Didn't say it wasn't a problem. Said compared to cranking the covid infection machine up to 11 for the entire society by mass opening schools it's a way better thing to navigate. Also said for that reason it's completely bullshit to use that as an excuse for opening up schools.  

Everything is a problem right now. These kids are going to have to deal with it and far worse as they grow up because this shit isn't ending with this pandemic. Every country has completely evil, horrific people in it. America has the most evil and horrific running the entire country. There are not going to be easy choices and easy lives going forward and they'll have to get used to navigating it. Consider this good training for them. 

It's one of several reasons for opening schools. And no one here is advocating throwing caution to the wind and "cranking covid to 11."  But you are minimizing non-covid related morbidity and mortality directly resulting from the containment policies.  Panic attacks, anxiety disorder, major depressive disorder requiring meds which carry risk of significant side effects in teens including suicidal ideation, stress induced autoimmune flares. These conditions are just as traumatic and at times tragic to the families experiencing them as the covid illnesses and deaths.  We won't know the incidence or the lasting effects for years.  There is also the very real risk of younger children falling behind and never catching up, and high schoolers falling behind and dropping out.

Just because certain leaders are cynically and dishonestly using it does not mean it's not important. Covid risk is not going to get close to zero in the foreseeable future without a vaccine. If you solely focus on minimizing harm from covid during this time you are putting others at significant risk. A balance needs to be struck. I don't know where the balance lies,, but it's certainly not closures with unspecified reopening timelines and advice to "deal with it."

 

[BradInATX 9208]

3 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Covid risk is not going to get close to zero in the foreseeable future without a vaccine. 

Except in the numerous other first-world countries who have gotten the Covid risk near-zero. 

It's not that we couldn't get cases close to zero. It's been done elsewhere. It's that we won't do what it takes.

[Born to Run 6569]

I wonder what his rationale for wearing a mask while welding is?  

He burnt the fuck out of his face and went temporarily blind and decided that shit sucked?

[Sawbonz 27595]

3 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Except in the numerous other first-world countries who have gotten the Covid risk near-zero. 

It's not that we couldn't get cases close to zero. It's been done elsewhere. It's that we won't do what it takes.

Of course. But this is the reality we have and we have to make decisions based on reality

[Born to Run 6569]

I think we need to get shit under control before we take on this balancing act.  I completely agree about kids' psychological needs.  But when they go back to school and lose their friends or their teachers, their psychological needs are going to be damaged anyway.  And I'm not sure going to school with no recess, physically separated by everyone is psychologically healthy or productive anyway.

This.

We should be locked down with smart opening of the economy- retail to go, measured use of parks and beaches.

The dialogue we are currently having about opening schools when we don't have hospital bed cap. Is a waste of time.

We are looking for runways while still in a stall with 3 engines on fire. Let's stabalise the plane.

Regarding kids. They are adabtable and capable of great disruption. Let's shepard through a new normal instead of looking to get back to the old way. It's not happening . 3x3 soccer, pods, quaratined groups, new hobbies

There are kids all over the planet adapting and thriving . Make it happen. Our cheese got moved. Adjust

[BradInATX 9208]

1 minute ago, Sawbonz said:

Of course. But this is the reality we have and we have to make decisions based on reality

Yeah, but is that really an acceptable answer?

"Well, we absolutely suck at being disciplined and compassionate towards our fellow humans, and we've completely failed. So let's just throw in the towel. School and football and jagr bombs for everyone!"

I don't know. Maybe pragmatically, it is. It's pathetic, though.

[Born to Run 6569]

I keep seeing this and it's completely bullshit in this situation. No one is saying you have to lock the kid in a room for a year by himself. You pick one or two relatives or friends with kids around the same age and you let them socialize with them. We've been doing that and they're fine. Every family doing that would be far far better than just taking all the kids at once and putting them in a giant covid factory to just infect the country at large. 
I feel terrible for families that are having to make sacrifices and find a way to raise their kids in this environment but sacrificing the entire country to covid so they can have a free babysitter again is just stupid. 

Fuck yeah. My kid and I started mountain biking, we study Spanish, he writes, we have a book club, we sit and read scripture and books like the 4 agreements and discuss. I have less time for work, but it doesn't suck completely

[4th&Five 41599]

 

[Sawbonz 27595]

Just now, BradInATX said:

Yeah, but is that really an acceptable answer?

"Well, we absolutely suck at being disciplined and compassionate towards our fellow humans, and we've completely failed. So let's just throw in the towel. School and football and jagr bombs for everyone!"

I don't know. Maybe pragmatically, it is. It's pathetic, though.

Is what an acceptable answer? That we have to deal with reality? I’m at risk of covid exposure daily, meaning my family is at risk. Should I say fuck it and stay home because our leaders suck and people can’t be trusted to do the right thing without appropriate guidance?  Maybe so. 

Also I’m not advocating throwing in the towel or going back to full pre-covid activity before we get the virus contained. As I said we need to find a balance. 

Do you think being disciplined and compassionate towards our fellow human beings only applies to covid mitigation?

Our leaders have fucked this up no doubt. We all are going to have to navigate this mess as best we can. 

[RDCanecutter 26476]

38 minutes ago, Gengs1 said:

Bigger impact would be if they take away their internet then meeting their friends 

 

That's what the EMPs are for (2020 still ain't over.)

[Born to Run 6569]

Fuck yeah. My kid and I started mountain biking, we study Spanish, he writes, we have a book club, we sit and read scripture and books like the 4 agreements and discuss. I have less time for work, but it doesn't suck completely

And I understand a lot of families are fucked. Let's address that and start solving problems. Back in March I said " maybe we have graduations; but they aren't going back. Look at the numbers then. They didn't go back. We fucked up. We laughed at Liberty U. And we are sowing seeds to fuck up again.
Let's mitigate and stop ping pongiing around from open to close like clown bumper cars.

If I had a kid starting college I'd urge a gap year and go surf or do what the can in a less fucked up country, or volunteer or buy them a leaf blower.

[BradInATX 9208]

5 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Is what an acceptable answer? That we have to deal with reality? I’m at risk of covid exposure daily, meaning my family is at risk. Should I say fuck it and stay home because our leaders suck and people can’t be trusted to do the right thing without appropriate guidance?  Maybe so. 

Also I’m not advocating throwing in the towel or going back to full pre-covid activity before we get the virus contained. As I said we need to find a balance. 

Do you think being disciplined and compassionate towards our fellow human beings only applies to covid mitigation?

 

Well, I think death is certainly a harsher punishment than missing a year of school.

[Sawbonz 27595]

Just now, BradInATX said:

 

Well, I think death is certainly a harsher punishment than missing a year of school.

So no opening up until covid deaths are zero? What about other causes of death?

[RDCanecutter 26476]

14 minutes ago, Born to Run said:

Fuck yeah. My kid and I started mountain biking, we study Spanish, he writes, we have a book club, we sit and read scripture and books like the 4 agreements and discuss. I have less time for work, but it doesn't suck completely

I am seriously (and by seriously, I mean, not seriously) thinking of putting together a Spanish course where I teach the language by showing "Santo y Blue Demon contra los monstruos" and pausing it to explain vocab and verb tenses. It's on Youtube, give it a shot.

[BradInATX 9208]

7 minutes ago, Born to Run said:

Let's mitigate and stop ping pongiing around from open to close like clown bumper cars.

This is it. Our impatience and petulance is what has kept us from pretty much already starting to climb back to normal like parts of Europe and APAC have. It's not going to work if we decide to wear masks but all go back to school. Or go out to the bar, or have giant indoor weddings, or what have you. 

The fact that we have all of these holes in our game means we end up playing whack a mole instead of just one-shotting the whole thing. If we had the patience just to take a month or two of pain, we'd be on the other side of this. But we don't.

So that's why I have an issue with @Sawbonz and others' proposition that we open schools up but keep up other measures. We're not going to get through this with half-measures, and having schools, particularly high schools open makes everything else we do a half-measure.

Edited July 27, 2020 by BradInATX

[BradInATX 9208]

5 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

So no opening up until covid deaths are zero? What about other causes of death?

Don't be obtuse. 

[Sawbonz 27595]

1 minute ago, BradInATX said:

Don't be obtuse. 

What is your acceptable number of covid deaths to open schools?

[Neonmoon 38130]

https://www.boston25news.com/news/health/florida-nurse-paralyzed-after-covid-19-bout-flown-boston-hospital/VBSOXCF3YNHIFGKUEOJVFRL6IE/
 

What the shit is this? No bueno