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Mrs Whiggins

By Mrs Whiggins
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I'd just like to point out that neither myself nor any of my fellow nurses, fellow advanced nurse practitioners, and other healthcare providers ever swore an oath that we would lay down our lives for

Bama Chick
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Welp, it finally happened. I snapped in public today. I went into work for a bit this morning because I’m trying to figure out the safest way to host physicians we are recruiting given our CV-19 sit

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I don't really know what to say anymore tbh. What happened last night is hard to put into words for anyone who hasn't worked in a hospital healthcare setting. Just unreal. Everyone is getting fucked.

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23469

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

enough with all the fucking disclaimers and fine print.  just call it a "limited trial that's likely to fail" and be done with it.

we're not going to see any type of effective vaccine this year.  and when i say "we" i mean the general public, not isolated double-blind closed-door testing while we wait for results and possible vague good news and all the other bullshit. 

Word salad bro. 

You said there would be no vax in 2020.  I gave you a pathway to that, and one that is not unrealistic at all. If you are talking about wide spread vaccination and access for hundreds of millions of people of course no way that happens in 2020, mid to late 2021. That's not disclaimers and trap doors. It's an honest assessment of what the next 12+ months looks like wrt vax. 

 

National Academy of Sciences just rolled out their draft proposal of what vax rollout might look like. Might be an interesting read.

https://www.nationalacademies.org/our-work/a-framework-for-equitable-allocation-of-vaccine-for-the-novel-coronavirus

 

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29189

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Word salad bro. 

You said there would be no vax in 2020.  I gave you a pathway to that, and one that is not unrealistic at all. If you are talking about wide spread vaccination and access for hundreds of millions of people of course no way that happens in 2020, mid to late 2021. That's not disclaimers and trap doors. It's an honest assessment of what the next 12+ months looks like wrt vax. 

 

National Academy of Sciences just rolled out their draft proposal of what vax rollout might look like. Might be an interesting read.

https://www.nationalacademies.org/our-work/a-framework-for-equitable-allocation-of-vaccine-for-the-novel-coronavirus

 

you seem really fixated on my 2020 declaration, and that's fine.  but let me let you in on a little secret - sometime in early november, let's say the 4th or 5th day of the month, i have a feeling the sense of urgency is going to vanish and the odds of seeing any type of distributed vaccine in the 55 days following it will slip somewhere between slim and nil.

i hope you're right.  but you're not.

Edited by henrygandorf
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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

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Posted
10 minutes ago, PsychMike said:

This is from the study protocol, Page 4, beginning at Line 58:

They used a loading dose plus high doses to get what they calculated as the levels needed to inhibit the virus. The key to getting effective kill rates with antimicrobials is getting sufficient drug levels to the target, while avoiding excess toxicity. It seems like a reasonable approach for a hospital study with adequate monitoring in the context of severely ill patients.

Safety first.  If you're trying to translate in vitro results for in vivo human application, you first have to consider if the drug concentrations mechanistically effective in a glass contained experiment are safe concentrations applied to the human body.  If not, it's a no-go.  To my knowledge, the doses RECOVERY used were higher than any other known application, ever.  The early safety concerns for application in covid spawned entirely from this study.  OTOH, Low dose application has been repeatedly demonstrated to be safe in studies involving tens of thousands of covid patients combined and is associated with a massive beneficial treatment effect when applied before the second stage pneumonia crash happens.  It's currently thought to be its anti-inflammatory effect (like used for RA and SLE) as opposed to antiviral.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31452

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For those following Moderna, apparently many/most of their patents on COVID-related technology were the product of research funded by the government, which gives "march-in rights."

This means that any vaccine or therapy will be less profitable for Moderna and probably also at least somewhat cheaper for us.  

Not sure Wall Street understands or has baked this in.

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23469

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, henrygandorf said:

you seem really fixated on my 2020 declaration, and that's fine.  but let me let you in on a little secret - sometime in early november, let's say the 4th or 5th day of the month, i have a feeling the sense of urgency is going to vanish and the odds of seeing any type of distributed vaccine in the 55 days following it will slip somewhere between slim and nil.

i hope you're right.  but you're not.

I am not really trying to pick a fight on this.  You said no way by end of 2020, I see a path to that. At this point I think that we see some form of an authorization by end of year.  And if not, 1Q2021 is a slam dunk, imo.

If not, the alternative is not particulary pretty, unless the virus burns itself out imo. So I may be biased towards optimism. 

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23469

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

For those following Moderna, apparently many/most of their patents on COVID-related technology were the product of research funded by the government, which gives "march-in rights."

This means that any vaccine or therapy will be less profitable for Moderna and probably also at least somewhat cheaper for us.  

Not sure Wall Street understands or has baked this in.

How many times has the US government used those rights in the past? Ihonestly don't know, but know that the concept has been evoked wrt some cancer treatments (Xtandi/UCLA). 

Edited by Anastasis
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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

How many of you are doctors or scientists?

Many people are saying that chitowndoc is a doctor, but maybe the name is just a grifter type dodge designed to fool ya.

Also many people are saying GRUHorn is in the medical field somehow. And by many people, I mean just him.

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29189

Posted
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2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

You said no way by end of 2020

i said this: " there won't be a vaccine in oct, or nov, or any time in 2020."  if translating that into "no way" gears you up for battle, that's cool.  whatever gets you there. 

i'm just tired of shitty politically motivated promises, followed by asterisk-draped results.  the cdc released language today that implied wide-distribution of a working vaccine.  not hundreds of millions, but nation-wide, and to specific, targeted groups.  i'm not saying it's impossible, but it's incredible unlikely, and i'm willing to say confidently it won't happen.

neither of us is right or wrong, and it will stay that way for a while.

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Pig Bellmont

Pig Bellmont 8713

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

i said this: " there won't be a vaccine in oct, or nov, or any time in 2020."  if translating that into "no way" gears you up for battle, that's cool.  whatever gets you there. 

i'm just tired of shitty politically motivated promises, followed by asterisk-draped results.  the cdc released language today that implied wide-distribution of a working vaccine.  not hundreds of millions, but nation-wide, and to specific, targeted groups.  i'm not saying it's impossible, but it's incredible unlikely, and i'm willing to say confidently it won't happen.

neither of us is right or wrong, and it will stay that way for a while.

Like everything with Trump, he doesn’t care if it actually happens, he just wants the headlines. 

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23469

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

i said this: " there won't be a vaccine in oct, or nov, or any time in 2020."  if translating that into "no way" gears you up for battle, that's cool.  whatever gets you there. 

I already told you I wasn't trying to pick a fight here.  But the words have pretty plain meaning.

9 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

i'm just tired of shitty politically motivated promises, followed by asterisk-draped results.  the cdc released language today that implied wide-distribution of a working vaccine.  not hundreds of millions, but nation-wide, and to specific, targeted groups.  i'm not saying it's impossible, but it's incredible unlikely, and i'm willing to say confidently it won't happen.

The CDC released a letter to governors telling them to start preparations for vaccine distribution with goal of having the network in place by Nov 1. They did not say that a vaccine would be approved by that time. I don't really see a problem with priming the distribution network with plenty of buffer. You see a political motivation in that.  It likely exists to some extent. But imagine the criticism that would be rolled out if we had a vaccine approval and no network to facilitate distribution. You are getting upset about the CDC telling the state to prepare their distribution networks and streamline any regulatory barriers. 

Edited by Anastasis
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kopp0e

kopp0e 1135

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, JimmyJames said:

It doesn’t matter whether a vaccine exists in late October or not, trump will announce one anyway no matter what claiming it’s the greatest vaccine ever created.
 

It still won’t matter but that will happen.

It's kinda brilliant, as in he knows no one will have time to see if the vaccine works before voting...

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29189

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7 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

You see a political motivation in that.  It likely exists to some extent.

uh...

8 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

You are getting upset about the CDC telling the state to prepare their distribution networks and streamline any regulatory barriers. 

you think that's what's got me upset?  not the very thing you wrote 3 sentences earlier?

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23469

Posted
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1 minute ago, henrygandorf said:

uh...

you think that's what's got me upset?  not the very thing you wrote 3 sentences earlier?

Let consider an alternative.  Let's say that the CDC does nothing to communicate to governors that they need to be prepared to have a distribution network for vaccination in place by mid 4Q2020.  If we have strong interim read outs from teh phase III trials that initiated in July, and the monitoring boards recommend early termination of the studies and the FDA approves the vaccine, whether a limited use approval or a broad let's do this thing, and there is no infrastructure in place for distribution, what would your take be? 

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29189

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3 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Let consider an alternative.  Let's say that the CDC does nothing to communicate to governors that they need to be prepared to have a distribution network for vaccination in place by mid 4Q2020.  If we have strong interim read outs from teh phase III trials that initiated in July, and the monitoring boards recommend early termination of the studies and the FDA approves the vaccine, whether a limited use approval or a broad let's do this thing, and there is no infrastructure in place for distribution, what would your take be? 

yeah.  i think we're done here.

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bolverk

bolverk 29669

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Posted
12 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

Welp. Daughter is positive. Her roommate went home to quarantine and she’s stuck there alone.

2020 can get FUCKED.

Sorry to hear this, Bama. I know it's not comforting and may sound dismissive to just say "I'm sure she'll be fine." And if I were religious, I'd say "Prayers." But I'm not, so all I can say is please keep us up-to-date, and we'll all be hoping for the best.

The college-aged son of one of my best friends caught it from his girlfriend. While the son was only under the weather for a day or so, the girlfriend was pretty sick for about a week. They both seem to have gotten through it okay.

Wishing y'all well. 

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

Posted
Posted
32 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

Welp. Daughter is positive. Her roommate went home to quarantine and she’s stuck there alone.

2020 can get FUCKED.

If it’s any consolation my son was in the same situation, went to school, tested positive almost immediately 2 weeks ago after symptoms and being near a positive testing friend, and is now fine.

It does rarely severely affect the young. Thank God.

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23469

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18 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

If it’s any consolation my son was in the same situation, went to school, tested positive almost immediately 2 weeks ago after symptoms and being near a positive testing friend, and is now fine.

Well shit, how come I didn't get the newsletter that we were all clear sending our kids back to school. 

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23469

Posted
Posted
Just now, JimmyJames said:

Yeah. You judging now?

No, not judging at all.  Just struggling like everybody else with doing what is right by the social and educational development of my children.  They are extremely low risk and I have them holed up in the house doing fucking Kindergarten zoom meetings and wearing masks to their gd soccer practices. 

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

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1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

No, not judging at all.  Just struggling like everybody else with doing what is right by the social and educational development of my children.  They are extremely low risk and I have them holed up in the house doing fucking Kindergarten zoom meetings and wearing masks to their gd soccer practices. 

That sucks. 

I rationalized its with he’s likely already had it, he’s very low risk and healthy, almost all of his classes are online, and what exactly is the alternative?

He got it. Maybe for a second time because there was no testing in March so we don’t know and never will. He seems fine now. It sucks.

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Bama Chick

Bama Chick 28596

Posted
Posted
Can she cough on Saban?

lol She’s a traitor - she’s at Auburn.

Thanks for all the kind words - she’s got mild symptoms so hopefully she’ll be okay. I got her a pulse oximeter for her first aid kit so I told her to keep an eye on that.

I just hate the thought of her being all alone. Ugh.
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Anastasis

Anastasis 23469

Posted
Posted
Just now, Bama Chick said:


lol She’s a traitor - she’s at Auburn.

Thanks for all the kind words - she’s got mild symptoms so hopefully she’ll be okay. I got her a pulse oximeter for her first aid kit so I told her to keep an eye on that.

I just hate the thought of her being all alone. Ugh.

Good move with the pulse oximeter.  The being alone with nobody else would freak me the fuck out. 

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Dark Horse

Dark Horse 2280

Posted
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, markstanco said:
49 minutes ago, lemonlime said:
From Covid.

From Lyme disease and dementia was why he died but you do you because politics.

The fuck are you talking about?

His family said he died due to Covid and Lewy body dementia. 

Edited by Dark Horse
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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

Posted
Posted
29 minutes ago, markstanco said:
1 hour ago, lemonlime said:
From Covid.

From Lyme disease and dementia was why he died but you do you because politics.

FUCK YOU. 
 

You are the asshole politicizing his death with your stupid ass 9k covid Facebook post death bullshit.

FUCK OFF ASSHOLE.

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, Dark Horse said:

The fuck are you talking about?

His family said he died due to Covid and Lewy body dementia. 

He’s doing what all trump supporters do, projecting his own fears onto others. Every accusation is a confession. Every statement is a lie. He is a worthless piece of shit just like his false god. 

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Bullneck

Bullneck 19079

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

Why doesn't dotard run with this?  It's actual science and actual good news.

He would rather throw shit against the wall like plasma treatments and once again, doctors and scientists have to be like, "again, no, that's not a thing."

I just don't understand.  There's a win!  Take it!  Fucking.  Moron.

It said "cheap."  So he can't make money from it, like reselling PPE.  

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31452

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Anastasis said:

How many times has the US government used those rights in the past? Ihonestly don't know, but know that the concept has been evoked wrt some cancer treatments (Xtandi/UCLA). 

Apparently, never.  The agency providing the funding is the one with the right, but the process can be invoked by private party.

This might be different as HIV is the only other public health crisis where a petiton to invoke march in rights has been filed, and even then, the petition was based on the price of the drug, not the availability.  Pricing alone has been "held" by the NIH not sufficient to invoke march in rights.

Also note that the government can do whatever it wants with any patent, but it has to answer for reasonable compensation under the takings clause.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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Bullneck

Bullneck 19079

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Posted
3 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

How many of you are doctors or scientists?

Mrs. Bullneck works in the vaccine division of Big Pharma company.  They are looking at Q4 2021 as a reasonable timeframe for a vaccine to be available (from them).

I'll pass on Trumps Ruskie plutonium vaccine.

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