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Mrs Whiggins

By Mrs Whiggins
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I'd just like to point out that neither myself nor any of my fellow nurses, fellow advanced nurse practitioners, and other healthcare providers ever swore an oath that we would lay down our lives for

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Welp, it finally happened. I snapped in public today. I went into work for a bit this morning because I’m trying to figure out the safest way to host physicians we are recruiting given our CV-19 sit

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I don't really know what to say anymore tbh. What happened last night is hard to put into words for anyone who hasn't worked in a hospital healthcare setting. Just unreal. Everyone is getting fucked.

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Dnaguy

Dnaguy 11964

Posted
Posted
14 hours ago, slorch said:

3.

Agree with BeauVine on shingles vaccine.

 

My biggest concern on vaccines they push out quickly is that the military almost certainly will be forced to use them.  On one of the initial versions, some of the components were known to directly cause sterility.   Yeah, fuck that.  I want some  grandkids.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-covid-vaccine-causing-infer/fact-check-a-coronavirus-vaccine-that-makes-everyone-infertile-has-not-been-approved-for-use-idUSKBN25H20G

 

Wait.... I can get a COVID vaccine AND not have to get a vasectomy?!

I can knock both of those shits at once without surgery?! AND it’ll be free?!

Fucking sign me up. 

I’m <1... like a 0.1.

Let’s ride.

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

Posted
Posted

I had heard about Dolly Parton's $1.0m gift to Vanderbilt Medical, but didn't realize she did it all the way back in late March.  Before most people, even in health care, knew how bad this was going to get.  Probably did more to combat the virus than half the White House Task Force.  The woman is a goddamn national treasure.    

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cactusflinthead

cactusflinthead 27598

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, conVINCEd said:

On a positive note, BILs uncle who is on a vent opened his eyes for the first time in 2 weeks today.  Vitals a little better as well.  Small victories.

I've got good news on my uncle too. He's still in the hospital but they are starting to let him breathe on his own some.

I damn sure thought about having to go to his funeral. The church ladies aka my mom's friends praying for him is nice and they can ascribe it to a miracle but I think these folks have a lot to do with it. 

 

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BehoId, The Underminer!

BehoId, The Underminer! 11669

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

I've got good news on my uncle too. He's still in the hospital but they are starting to let him breathe on his own some.

I damn sure thought about having to go to his funeral. The church ladies aka my mom's friends praying for him is nice and they can ascribe it to a miracle but I think these folks have a lot to do with it. 

 

That story has a “and the virus’s name? COVID Einstein” feel to it. 

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Guest Lobo

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Yeah, if they're in a nursing home or assisted living, you want them to get it early IMO.  They spread it one another and equally as bad, to the staff/front line workers.  But if you're 60-80 and just chilling at home/retired, you could probably take one for the team and just hang back and we'll bring you some takeout from that place you like with the fresh baked bread.  

 

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89668

Posted
Posted
49 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

I'll be crass.  Old people shouldn't be first.  The economy can get by fine with them in their houses for another two months.  If we want to rank essential groups, they'd be last.

I’d like to see teachers and school staff be up there behind medical folks and first responders, so we can keep the schools open.  It’s a huge drain on everybody when they have to shut down.  

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Aqua Buddha

Aqua Buddha 14596

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

I’d like to see teachers and school staff be up there behind medical folks and first responders, so we can keep the schools open.  It’s a huge drain on everybody when they have to shut down.  

Yeah, teachers should 1B with health care workers being 1A.

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Guest Lobo

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Posted
Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, hookemATL said:

What about pregnant women?  Wife is due in March so I’m curious if I can jump the line. KMA old people!!

Good question.  It was my understanding from talking with a few OB/GYN's (we have similar interests), that it would be important for mothers in their first "half" of pregnancy to be separately considered for the vaccine because of the way their immune/RNA works (I think we all remember that we forgot that part of 10th grade health class where we learn the body of a pregnant woman goes into a serious diversion so that it will not reject the new foreign entity within the body-the fetus).  I think by the back half of pregnancy though, there's a symbiotic relationship achieved and maybe more practical for vaccination.  But I'll leave that for the doctors to tell us more about.  

And to AHB's point---teachers and staff should be moved up the line as well.  Their working conditions, plus the importance of having properly running safe schools, just demand they be right up there behind front line workers.  So many of them are older and in worse health than coal workers.  Nevermind the mental toll the past year has taken on them.  

I worry about my wife's extended family though.  All older, clustered close together, and in the middle of fucking nowhere.  They've all been good savers and think they can "buy" their way to the front of the line because of how many olds they have in their crew.  And the wife and her doctor sister are having to start these awkward conversations about it's not about what you have for resources, it's about the hospital groups you live near.  There isn't a respectable hospital group with any buying power or muscle for 300 miles in any direction from them.  Unless they can corral themselves into the pecking order in Kansas City, they're at the back of the line.  Which sucks because rural folks are getting hit hard by this mainly due to pre-existing conditions and shitty access to quality healthcare.  /rant

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Skipper

Skipper 6135

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Posted

Has there been any talk about whether there will be an antibody test required prior to receiving a vaccine?  Sure maybe most that know they have had it wouldn't try to be first in line, but as COVID rages on, resulting in presumably more and more asymptomatic carriers, it seems prudent to skip anyone that already has antibodies when doses are limited.

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Guest Lobo

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No, you're thinking of "Marley and Me".......it's a dog named Marley who gets infected and Will Smith, played by Bob Marley, has to kill his own dog to prevent infection.  Owen Wilson plays the gay neighbor who sings "One Love" all the time on the balcony in Bed-Stuy.  

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Snake Diggity

Snake Diggity 4624

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Here’s my preferred order/timeline:

by 1/1: Healthcare workers, first responders, military leaders, food supply chain workers, school workers 

by 4/1: elderly/vulnerable, utility workers, remaining military personnel, govt workers 

by 7/1: everybody else

My expectation is that we see lockdowns in December and January, while the vaccine gets administered in a very inefficient way, with maybe half of healthcare workers and first responders having received it by the end of February.  By that point, mask mandates and test/trace FINALLY get where they need to be, the curve turns back downward by mid-March, and the vaccine supply chain finally revs up, so that by mid-April, the pandemic is largely over, even though only a very small % of people have been vaccinated.  People will gradually get vaccinated over next summer so that by next Labor Day things are finally all the way back to normal, or at least as far back to normal as they will ever be.

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LurkingHorn

LurkingHorn 1066

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Skipper said:

Has there been any talk about whether there will be an antibody test required prior to receiving a vaccine?  Sure maybe most that know they have had it wouldn't try to be first in line, but as COVID rages on, resulting in presumably more and more asymptomatic carriers, it seems prudent to skip anyone that already has antibodies when doses are limited.

I've wondered this as well. However, that would take a coordinated effort from the feds and, let's be honest, that isn't happening under this administration. 

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Skipper

Skipper 6135

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, LurkingHorn said:

I've wondered this as well. However, that would take a coordinated effort from the feds and, let's be honest, that isn't happening under this administration. 

Could be as simple as requiring proof of a negative antibody test (obtained at a separate location) within x days prior to date you receive vaccine.  Antibody tests are pretty widely available at this point.  Obviously this may dissuade people from getting the vaccine if you make it more of a hassle but for the first few months when doses are extremely limited, it seems to make sense to ensure you don't "waste" a dose on someone that already has some natural protection.  

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DonkeyCigars

DonkeyCigars 143

Posted
Posted (edited)

How much is a vaccine going to cost and what about people without insurance?

Wouldn't it make more sense to have the government make this vaccine free to everyone in the country and maybe the world versus giving every American $800 to spend on chinese plastic junk for Christmas?

Edited by DonkeyCigars
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jw4381

jw4381 3074

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Lobo said:

No, you're thinking of "Marley and Me".......it's a dog named Marley who gets infected and Will Smith, played by Bob Marley, has to kill his own dog to prevent infection.  Owen Wilson plays the gay neighbor who sings "One Love" all the time on the balcony in Bed-Stuy.  

Yes! That's the one with Will Ferrell in it, right?

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LurkingHorn

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21 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Could be as simple as requiring proof of a negative antibody test (obtained at a separate location) within x days prior to date you receive vaccine.  Antibody tests are pretty widely available at this point.  Obviously this may dissuade people from getting the vaccine if you make it more of a hassle but for the first few months when doses are extremely limited, it seems to make sense to ensure you don't "waste" a dose on someone that already has some natural protection.  

The only issue I see is that you would have a fairly sizable black market for fake negative tests and, like you said, it would end up slowing down people from getting the vaccine as quickly as possible. I think this would need to be a rapid test done on site at the time someone is getting the vaccine. There's no way that is happening in the next 6 weeks with Trump basically asleep at the wheel. 

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Prepuce of Doom

Prepuce of Doom 21073

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Fun fact: the vaccines may prove to be less effective among the many people (particularly firefighters and the military) exposed to PFAS, a "forever chemical" that most of us already have some amount of in our bodies. 

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/17/chemicals-found-in-everyday-products-could-hinder-covid-19-vaccine

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Skipper

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16 minutes ago, LurkingHorn said:

The only issue I see is that you would have a fairly sizable black market for fake negative tests and, like you said, it would end up slowing down people from getting the vaccine as quickly as possible. I think this would need to be a rapid test done on site at the time someone is getting the vaccine. There's no way that is happening in the next 6 weeks with Trump basically asleep at the wheel. 

I don't think that many people will care enough to "fake" a negative antibody test.  If you make it the rule, most people will follow it.   And we are taking about just the first few months where there will be significantly more demand than supply.  There will be plenty of people who want a vaccine willing to jump through that hoop.  Obviously that will shift at some point and you can drop the requirement, but if your goal is to get to something resembling herd immunity ASAP then you don't want to waste a dose on someone with natural (albeit likely limited) immunity.   The current rapid spread itself is helping towards that goal so trying to ensure the first doses go to those without an infection seems like a prudent goal.

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Dnaguy

Dnaguy 11964

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

I’d like to see teachers and school staff be up there behind medical folks and first responders, so we can keep the schools open.  It’s a huge drain on everybody when they have to shut down.  


Realistic order of vaccine:


1.) Uber Rich fucks, government officials, and those connected to said officials.

2.) Doctors / nurses 

3.) Rich people

4.) Upper middle class

5.) Teachers / remaining first responders

6.) Middle Class

7.) Essential workers

8.) Pets of the groups in #1-4 categories

9.) The poor

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105139

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Dolly Parton is a first ballot inductee into the American Hall of Fame.

Diverging from topic only slightly -- people like her are EXACTLY why we have the Presidential Medal of Freedom.  Trump gives it to people like Miriam Adelson and Rush Limbaugh, and a bunch of athletes.  For fuck's sake.

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23469

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Posted

Pfizer CEO says that they hit the safety data threshold of 2m follow-up for half the people in their trial. EUA submission coming quickly, perhaps by end of the week.  Pretty fucking amazing to go from where we were in January to a vaccine rolling out in under a year. 

https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/17/pfizer-may-be-within-days-of-filing-emergency-authorization-request-for-covid-19-vaccine/

 

An interesting snippet...

Pfizer intends to offer vaccine to people who were randomly assigned to get a placebo injection in their Phase 3 trial; Bourla said the company has a “moral obligation” to the people who stepped forward to volunteer for the trial.

The FDA has been discouraging vaccine manufacturers from doing that preemptively, arguing that the trials should stay blinded — neither the participants nor the scientists who monitor them know who got vaccine and who got placebo — for as long as is practical to generate as much data out of the trials as possible. Bourla said Pfizer is in discussions with the FDA over when the vaccination of placebo arm participants can take place.

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Gap03

Gap03 3307

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, HenryJames said:

I look at the 2000 deaths per day by Christmas as potentially optimistic.  Have you guys looked at the EU numbers recently?  35 days ago they were averaging under 500 deaths per day.  They're averaging 3100 deaths per day over the last week.  They've taken some fairly dramatic action over the last couple of weeks and are starting to turn things around.  Once the hospitals start getting overrun in the US, though, death rates will ramp up quickly just like they did in the EU.  Honestly, I don't blame the ICU nurses for walking away - the average US citizen doesn't deserve them.

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safe sex 11727

Posted
Posted
59 minutes ago, Gap03 said:

I look at the 2000 deaths per day by Christmas as potentially optimistic.  Have you guys looked at the EU numbers recently?  35 days ago they were averaging under 500 deaths per day.  They're averaging 3100 deaths per day over the last week.  They've taken some fairly dramatic action over the last couple of weeks and are starting to turn things around.  Once the hospitals start getting overrun in the US, though, death rates will ramp up quickly just like they did in the EU.  Honestly, I don't blame the ICU nurses for walking away - the average US citizen doesn't deserve them.

Fortunately (and unfortunately, depending on your point of view), deserve has very little to do with it. 

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Dnaguy

Dnaguy 11964

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, HenryJames said:

 

 

9 hours ago, Brisketexan said:


Yeah....good luck with that.

 

7 hours ago, Gap03 said:

I look at the 2000 deaths per day by Christmas as potentially optimistic.  Have you guys looked at the EU numbers recently?  35 days ago they were averaging under 500 deaths per day.  They're averaging 3100 deaths per day over the last week.  They've taken some fairly dramatic action over the last couple of weeks and are starting to turn things around.  Once the hospitals start getting overrun in the US, though, death rates will ramp up quickly just like they did in the EU.  Honestly, I don't blame the ICU nurses for walking away - the average US citizen doesn't deserve them.

 

Americans have no empathy in the tank. And really never had any to begin with. (70+ million people tried to re-elect Trump)

They tried April, but when it was painfully obvious that it wasn’t going to be solved in 2 weeks we gave up.

Because in America, if you can’t dine in at a TGI Fridays then what’s the point of living anyway.

We’re an easily scared, soft, arrogant, lazy, and stubborn society living off the fumes of previous generations who really sacrificed....

Most of these people are close to death in our minds, and we’ve already tossed most of them in society’s waste paper basket for olds anyway.

Old people remind us of our own mortality.

Without olds, we can pretend we’ll be young forever.

 

 

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dingleberryswitzer

dingleberryswitzer 2724

Posted
Posted
33 minutes ago, Dnaguy said:

 

 

 

Americans have no empathy in the tank. And really never had any to begin with. (70+ million people tried to re-elect Trump)

They tried April, but when it was painfully obvious that it wasn’t going to be solved in 2 weeks we gave up.

Because in America, if you can’t dine in at a TGI Fridays then what’s the point of living anyway.

We’re an easily scared, soft, arrogant, lazy, and stubborn society living off the fumes of previous generations who really sacrificed....

Most of these people are close to death in our minds, and we’ve already tossed most of them in society’s waste paper basket for olds anyway.

Old people remind us of our own mortality.

Without olds, we can pretend we’ll be young forever.

 

 

Who wrote that?  Woody Guthrie?

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