CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

how are they determining number of cases?  is it just taking the percentage tested, percentage of positive test results, and scaling to population?

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

those central african countries with massive populations have to be really fudging numbers.

[BradInATX 9208]

9 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

how are they determining number of cases?  is it just taking the percentage tested, percentage of positive test results, and scaling to population?

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

those central african countries with massive populations have to be really fudging numbers.

I pretty much assume everyone that's not the US, Canada, or in western Europe is fudging numbers.

[WinningIsHard 4078]

4 hours ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

Just in case this gem hasn't been posted.  This is what we are dealing with:

 

 

Come on! There aren't biden supporters who are exactly this fucking stupid? What if I think Pelosi is this stupid but I think Biden will be a decent president? 

[PassiveAggressiveCoach 118]

11 hours ago, washparkhorn said:

Wait - you are immune to it? 

I am not sure "the immune" should have a voice in this debate. You don't give a fuck - you are immune. 

Can't tell if serious. 

Edited December 9, 2020 by PassiveAggressiveCoach

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

2 minutes ago, WinningIsHard said:

Come on! There aren't biden supporters who are exactly this fucking stupid? What if I think Pelosi is this stupid but I think Biden will be a decent president? 

your accusations are making me so mad i'm starting to vibrate, which ironically is actually protecting me right now

[PassiveAggressiveCoach 118]

5 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

I pretty much assume everyone that's not the US, Canada, or in western Europe is fudging numbers.

You don't trust China, Russia, Iran and Latin American numbers? 

Edited December 9, 2020 by PassiveAggressiveCoach

[4th&Five 41586]

 

[PassiveAggressiveCoach 118]

3 hours ago, brakeman said:

This looks like a good place for this right here.

covid denial syndrome

My teeth are going to fall out? Damn it! 

[Brisketexan 105272]

19 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

how are they determining number of cases?  is it just taking the percentage tested, percentage of positive test results, and scaling to population?

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

those central african countries with massive populations have to be really fudging numbers.

Actually, there's an interesting hypothesis about Africa.  The countries you are talking about have very young populations -- like 60% under the age of 25.  So, the hypothesis is that even when people that age may get sick, they don't get tested or go to the hospital, because their cases are not severe.  I'm sure that central Africa also doesn't have a flawless testing and reporting apparatus either, but I think there's merit to that hypothesis.

[washparkhorn 9939]

1 hour ago, Bama Chick said:

Oh boy. I see one of the plane tracking squid interpreters brought their nonsense to this thread last night.

Those CUMAnon folks are going to be a blight on this board.

This board is so devastatingly accurate with facts within moments of a post - he was toast when he darkened the door.

Some masochists love the humiliation and the drama.  

12 minutes ago, PassiveAggressiveCoach said:

Can't tell if serious. 

Back for more? Keep flushing.

Edited December 9, 2020 by washparkhorn

[PassiveAggressiveCoach 118]

15 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Actually, there's an interesting hypothesis about Africa.  The countries you are talking about have very young populations -- like 60% under the age of 25.  So, the hypothesis is that even when people that age may get sick, they don't get tested or go to the hospital, because their cases are not severe.  I'm sure that central Africa also doesn't have a flawless testing and reporting apparatus either, but I think there's merit to that hypothesis.

If my family is anything like the rest of the US our actual cases are many fold the reported cases. There are 5 of us. So there were 5 actual cases but only 1 positive test. My wife got sick 1st and tested positive. Then my 3 kids and I got symptoms 3 days later but we never got tested because we already knew we had it and what's the point? The 3 kids had it a day or so. Interesting thing is the 3 kids and I lost our taste and smell all on the same day. They were fine not feeling bad then they lost it after they got through the illness part. Took me a week to get over it. My taste several weeks later is the only lingering affect. Probably 80-90% back. So 15M tested cases in the US is probably real world 40-60M cases at least. 

Edited December 9, 2020 by PassiveAggressiveCoach

[PassiveAggressiveCoach 118]

16 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

This board is so devastatingly accurate with facts within moments of a post - he was toast when he darkened the door.

Some masochists love the humiliation and the drama.  

Back for more? Keep flushing.

I posted tons of "facts" in regards to actual data earlier. It's all cited above. Most from https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

 

[Dnaguy 12044]

5 hours ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

Just in case this gem hasn't been posted.  This is what we are dealing with:

 

 

 

I mean she’s not wrong when she says that all things in the universe vibrate.

[triplehorn 2664]

3 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Someone referenced Ron Johnson the other day, but I don't remember who or what the reference was about.  Here's an article about Ron's anti-science behavior in his official role.  The mind boggles.  (It shouldn't at this point, but it does.)

Oh, Ron

  Reveal hidden contents

Elevating Fringe Theories, Ron Johnson Questions Virus Science
The Wisconsin Republican has transformed his Senate panel into a forum for amplifying dubious theories and questionable treatments pushed by President Trump.

Senator Ron Johnson of Wisconsin has been willing to echo the most conspiracy-minded and anti-science impulses of President Trump.Credit...Anna Moneymaker for The New York Times
Catie EdmondsonNicholas Fandos
By Catie Edmondson and Nicholas Fandos
Dec. 7, 2020
WASHINGTON — In choosing a slate of doctors to testify about coronavirus treatments before his committee on Tuesday, Senator Ron Johnson has assembled a cast of witnesses who question much of the public health consensus about the virus.

There is a prominent vaccine skeptic, an outspoken critic of masking and social distancing, and at least two doctors who have promoted the use of an anti-parasitic drug that government scientists have recommended against using to treat the coronavirus.

It is the latest example of how Mr. Johnson, a Wisconsin Republican who has used his powerful investigative panel to amplify groundless accusations pushed by President Trump, has now embraced the role of the Senate’s leading Covid contrarian.

Even as some of his Republican colleagues have sought to use their platforms to encourage Americans to take precautions against the spread of the virus and persuade the public that vaccines against it will be safe and vital, Mr. Johnson has suggested that the dangers of the coronavirus have been overblown and excessively regulated. And twice in the past three weeks, Mr. Johnson has used his gavel on the Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee to elevate voices who public health experts say represent fringe beliefs.

It has set off something of a quiet mutiny on the panel, enraging Democrats who plan to essentially boycott the traditional cross-examination of witnesses and unsettling some Republicans who are planning to skip Tuesday’s session lest their presence be seen as lending credence to the proceeding.

The selections underscore the extent to which Mr. Johnson, a former plastics baron who has made little secret of his disdain for the Washington establishment, has eagerly echoed the most conspiracy-minded and anti-science impulses of Mr. Trump and waded headfirst into battles even the president’s usually reliable phalanx of congressional defenders have been unwilling to fight.

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Mr. Johnson spent much of the year pursuing a corruption inquiry into President-elect Joseph R. Biden Jr. and his son, Hunter, that he conceded was driven by Mr. Biden’s political campaign, and that ultimately found no wrongdoing by the elder Mr. Biden. Since the election, he has questioned whether Mr. Biden won fairly, saying last week that Attorney General William P. Barr should produce proof to back up his statement that the Justice Department had found no evidence of the kind of widespread voter fraud Mr. Trump has baselessly insisted cost him the election.

Mr. Johnson is unfazed by the criticism he has attracted.

In an interview on Monday, he said that while he supported widespread vaccination and masking, he believed that many of his colleagues had been too deferential to a public health establishment that, because of its obsession with finding a vaccine and lack of experience treating coronavirus patients, had undermined, neglected and even “censored” other potential treatments that he believes could help.

“We have grossly overreacted to this,” Mr. Johnson said of the virus. “We have not been smart. We should have isolated the sick, protected the vulnerable and then the rest of us carry on with our lives as safely as possible.”

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Mr. Johnson’s lead witness on Tuesday, Dr. Jane M. Orient, has cast doubts on coronavirus vaccines and has pushed for the use of hydroxychloroquine, an antimalarial drug pushed by Mr. Trump, as a treatment. She helps run a group that believes government vaccine mandates violate human rights.

Another, the Washington cardiologist Ramin Oskoui, said on Fox News last month that it was “settled science” that “social distancing doesn’t work, quarantining doesn’t work, masks don’t work.” On the contrary, it is settled science that all three are effective in limiting the spread of the virus.

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Two others promote the use of ivermectin, a drug often used to fight lice and pinworms, to treat coronavirus patients, despite the National Institutes of Health’s recommendation against its use outside clinical trials.

Mr. Johnson said he felt that the public had a right to learn about early treatments they might not otherwise be aware of.

“There’s a blackout on good information in social media and media,” he said. “So people are being denied information to make intelligent choices themselves.”

Senator Gary Peters of Michigan, the top Democrat on the panel, fretted that the witnesses would “amplify theories that are at odds with the broader scientific community and, according to experts, could cause harm.”

“These fringe views run counter to what the Senate should be doing — working on a bipartisan basis to protect the American people and tackle this deadly pandemic,” Mr. Peters said.

ImageMr. Johnson is likely to seek a third term in 2022 and would benefit from Mr. Trump’s vocal support.
Mr. Johnson is likely to seek a third term in 2022 and would benefit from Mr. Trump’s vocal support.Credit...Gabriella Demczuk for The New York Times
He pointedly declined to invite a witness to Tuesday’s hearing, and his aides said he did not plan to engage with the witnesses during the session. Instead, he is working with a group of a dozen prominent health experts to draft a letter to submit for the Congressional Record challenging their views.

Mr. Johnson’s inflammatory public statements and his decision to give a platform to an assortment of contrarian doctors promoting alternative treatments have also irked some fellow Republicans, who have privately groused that he is acting irresponsibly. But in the clubby Senate, few are willing to criticize a colleague openly or challenge a chairman on how he runs his committee.

Senator Mitt Romney of Utah, who had criticized the Hunter Biden inquiry as politicized, conspicuously skipped questioning witnesses at the earlier coronavirus hearing and does not plan to attend on Tuesday. Senator Rob Portman of Ohio, who is slated to take the top Republican slot on the panel in January after Mr. Johnson’s term as chairman ends, has gone out of his way to project trust for the scientific consensus on the coronavirus, publicly announcing last month that he had signed up for a vaccine trial in part to persuade Americans that it was safe.

Dr. Ashish Jha, the dean of the Brown University School of Public Health, who tangled with Mr. Johnson at a November hearing dedicated to hydroxychloroquine, called that event “a powerful reminder that not even Congress is immune to toxic conspiracy theories.”

At the hearing, Mr. Johnson wondered aloud why medical professionals like Dr. Jha had scorned the drug, which has repeatedly been shown to be ineffective at treating coronavirus patients, and were supporting another drug, remdesivir, which has been shown to work but is more expensive.

“I question the fact that because this cocktail costs about $20 and remdesivir costs $3,000, that maybe there’s a little bias, maybe there’s a little conflict, maybe there’s a little agenda,” he said.

“He’s giving platforms to people who are way outside of the mainstream medical community,” Dr. Jha said in an interview.

Mr. Johnson said his own coronavirus infection in early October — “I had two positive tests. I guess they’re valid,” he said — did not require treatment.

Mr. Johnson’s interest in health issues is longstanding and consistent with his more recent statements. He was the lead sponsor, for example, of so-called right-to-try legislation that Congress overwhelmingly approved in 2018 to allow seriously ill patients to bypass the Food and Drug Administration and use unproven experimental treatments.

“He has always been a contrarian person,” said Mark Becker, the former county chairman of the Wisconsin Republican Party, who recently wrote an op-ed for The Bulwark, a website with a bent toward “Never Trump” conservatism, about a recent call with Mr. Johnson.

“But everything on the Republican side has turned to be a political argument, even a public health crisis,” Mr. Becker said. “And he still cares about not pissing off those Trumpers. He said that to me very clearly: ‘I’m not going to piss them off.’”

The calculation is most likely a shrewd one as the senator looks toward running for a third term in 2022 in a competitive state where he has twice been elected by narrow margins. Though he initially pledged to serve only two terms, Mr. Johnson has since hinted that he may feel compelled to run again, arguing that times have changed. Mr. Trump’s vocal support could be key.

Thomas Nelson, the Outagamie County executive and a Democrat challenging Mr. Johnson, predicted that voters would remember Mr. Johnson using a powerful perch in Washington to publicly explore “rabbit holes of bizarre conspiracies.”

“What’s wrong with you? I mean, what is wrong with you?” Mr. Nelson said in an interview. “Do you not see the existential threat that communities like your hometown are facing, have been facing?”

 

That article paints the panel with a broad brush without making distinctions.  There were different groups represented including one individual who just published the first US study on ivermectin (significantly positive outcomes treating the sickest ICU covid pts).  One group represented on the panel, FLCCC, has been a beacon for a long time. 

A different group on the panel with a less stellar reputation had a panel rep that looks like the love child of HJ and Tiny Tim

Spoiler

 

[HenryJames 66159]

 

[cactusflinthead 27601]

41 minutes ago, PassiveAggressiveCoach said:

I posted tons of "facts" in regards to actual data earlier. It's all cited above. Most from https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

 

Continue to fuck off

[PassiveAggressiveCoach 118]

15 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

Continue to fuck off

Thankfully, we are not like many European countries. These numbers would be much higher. 

[cactusflinthead 27601]

2 minutes ago, PassiveAggressiveCoach said:

Thankfully, we are not like many European countries. These numbers would be much higher. 

How about South Korea?

They got the news the same day as us. How about you post their death count?

[TexEx15 17568]

1 hour ago, PassiveAggressiveCoach said:

My teeth are going to fall out? Damn it! 

I’m sure trump would enjoy less teeth.

[MissingInAction 25171]

9 minutes ago, PassiveAggressiveCoach said:

Thankfully, we are not like many European countries. These numbers would be much higher. 

Wtf does this even mean? Are you a Q-bert?

[jimmyjazz 46091]

1 hour ago, triplehorn said:

That article paints the panel with a broad brush without making distinctions. 

Invite one anti-vaxxer and I'm going to laugh at the whole circus.

[Brisketexan 105272]

3 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Invite one anti-vaxxer and I'm going to laugh at the whole circus.

This.  When you convene a panel and tell me "this is a panel of serious people," and one of them proceeds to smear shit all over themselves, sing Reba songs at the top of their lungs, postulate that the letter O hypnotizes jews, and holler about how Kool-aid cures cancer......I'm going to assume our panel is NOT made up of serious people.  It's not hard.  That's how common sense works.

[Dahobbs 17654]

53 minutes ago, PassiveAggressiveCoach said:

Thankfully, we are not like many European countries. These numbers would be much higher. 

Many? Name the many. Go ahead. Now, name all the ones that have lower per capita mortality. What list is longer? Can't figure it out, let me help. The following having higher per capita mortality:

Italy, UK (do we still call them European?), Spain, Belgium, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Slovenia, San Marino, North Macedonia, Andora. 

There are 44 countries in Europe. Other than the 9 above, the rest all have lower per capita mortality. 

 

[Continental Op 3934]

1 hour ago, PassiveAggressiveCoach said:

I posted tons of "facts" in regards to actual data earlier. It's all cited above. Most from https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

 

I thought you were done over here because your shitpussy hurts and the people here are big meanies. 

[triplehorn 2664]

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

This.  When you convene a panel and tell me "this is a panel of serious people," and one of them proceeds to smear shit all over themselves, sing Reba songs at the top of their lungs, postulate that the letter O hypnotizes jews, and holler about how Kool-aid cures cancer......I'm going to assume our panel is NOT made up of serious people.  It's not hard.  That's how common sense works.

Obviously that doesn't make the credible presenters wrong, it just leads the audience to ignore critical distinctions and form inaccurate conclusions.  I expect people probably earn a livable wage doing hit pieces for the right players.  Why? It works.  In this case, unfortunately more preventable death is the likely result.  It's hard to imagine anyone who benefits from doing such a thing, unless of course it involves a whole lot of money.

[aggie08 21524]

3 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Many? Name the many. Go ahead. Now, name all the ones that have lower per capita mortality. What list is longer? Can't figure it out, let me help. The following having higher per capita mortality:

Italy, UK (do we still call them European?), Spain, Belgium, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Slovenia, San Marino, North Macedonia, Andora. 

There are 44 countries in Europe. Other than the 9 above, the rest all have lower per capita mortality. 

 

I think the general "logic" in those circles is that, as long as we're not dead fucking last, we've done everything we can possibly do, we're all in the same boat, and nothing would have mattered anyway because "virus gonna virus."

[Brisketexan 105272]

Just now, triplehorn said:

Obviously that doesn't make the credible presenters wrong, it just leads the audience to ignore critical distinctions and form inaccurate conclusions.  I expect people probably earn a livable wage doing hit pieces for the right players.  Why? It works.  In this case, unfortunately more preventable death is the likely result.  It's hard to imagine anyone who benefits from doing such a thing, unless of course it involves a whole lot of money.

Look, everyone here would love for an easy, already-on-the-shelf therapy to be a miracle treatment, or even close to it.  But we've listened to relentlessly quackery, much of it politically motivated, for month after month.  There's a real fucking "boy who cried wolf" problem here, and you have nobody but yourself, and those like you, to blame.  It's all but impossible to separate the wheat from the mountain of chaff.  

I hope the invermectin theory is right.  I really do.  But as for me, it's really hard to find the time to digest the avalanche of shit that's been poured on all of these possible therapies.  I really wish you hadn't fucking done that shit from the start.  I'll wait until it's presented by a credible source, not buried among the shit-smearing.

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20471]

1 hour ago, PassiveAggressiveCoach said:

Thankfully, we are not like many European countries. These numbers would be much higher. 

Unthankfully, we are not like almost every single 3rd world country (Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Togo etc...)  because those numbers would be much lower.

[PassiveAggressiveCoach 118]

16 minutes ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

Unthankfully, we are not like almost every single 3rd world country (Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Togo etc...)  because those numbers would be much lower.

#1 it's funny you trust numbers from those countries. They hardly test anyway. Go ahead and trust that data though. 

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20471]

Just now, PassiveAggressiveCoach said:

#1 it's funny you trust numbers from those countries. They hardly test anyway. Go ahead and trust that data though. 

Sorry ... I was using the data at the World Coronavirus website that you posted.  Is it not trustworthy?

[PassiveAggressiveCoach 118]

29 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Many? Name the many. Go ahead. Now, name all the ones that have lower per capita mortality. What list is longer? Can't figure it out, let me help. The following having higher per capita mortality:

Italy, UK (do we still call them European?), Spain, Belgium, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Slovenia, San Marino, North Macedonia, Andora. 

There are 44 countries in Europe. Other than the 9 above, the rest all have lower per capita mortality. 

 

UK,  Belgium, Italy and Spain all have more deaths per capita than the US. 

[PassiveAggressiveCoach 118]

6 minutes ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

Sorry ... I was using the data at the World Coronavirus website that you posted.  Is it not trustworthy?

It's the publically available numbers.  It aggregates them so it's only as good as the data released from those countries.  This as trustworthy as the data is from each individual country. Try to keep up. Unless you know of some super secret numbers? 

Edited December 9, 2020 by PassiveAggressiveCoach

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

4 minutes ago, PassiveAggressiveCoach said:

UK,  Belgium, Italy and Spain all have more deaths per capita than the US. 

Isn't that what he said below?

37 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Many? Name the many. Go ahead. Now, name all the ones that have lower per capita mortality. What list is longer? Can't figure it out, let me help. The following having higher per capita mortality:

Italy, UK (do we still call them European?), Spain, Belgium, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Slovenia, San Marino, North Macedonia, Andora. 

There are 44 countries in Europe. Other than the 9 above, the rest all have lower per capita mortality. 

 

 

[triplehorn 2664]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Look, everyone here would love for an easy, already-on-the-shelf therapy to be a miracle treatment, or even close to it.  But we've listened to relentlessly quackery, much of it politically motivated, for month after month.  There's a real fucking "boy who cried wolf" problem here, and you have nobody but yourself, and those like you, to blame.  It's all but impossible to separate the wheat from the mountain of chaff.  

I hope the invermectin theory is right.  I really do.  But as for me, it's really hard to find the time to digest the avalanche of shit that's been poured on all of these possible therapies.  I really wish you hadn't fucking done that shit from the start.  I'll wait until it's presented by a credible source, not buried among the shit-smearing.

Take a step back and look at the larger timeline.  Some poster(s) spiked the football at the 50 yard line back in March-May with baseless mocking and bad understanding.  The evidence in support of early home treatment using several agents was emerging early on confounded by a fraudulent study in Lancet, and a shitgibbon no one trusts.  But that evidence has more than quadrupled since the summer, particularly in the last 2-3 months.  Those who spiked at the 50 back then can't acknowledge they fumbled today.  This isn't a competition.  The evidence is clear and overwhelming.  I know you're not a science denier.  Prove the science wrong.  No one is doing that.  It's quack, clown, gif, blah blah without critical thinking showing a grasp of what's real or not. 

To your reference about 'crying wolf', take what we had on HCQ in the spring vs today.  Today there are now over 100 peer reviewed published studies, both RCT and observational, that taken together show a 64% risk reduction for hospitalization and death when it's started in an early outpatient setting.  The odds HCQ doesn't benefit in that scenario is 1:17 billion.  If you just take RCT's for early home use of HCQ, the relative risk reduction is still 24%.  But as of the last 2-3 weeks, it's becoming rapidly clear that Ivermectin is just flat out superior across all phases of the illness and continuing to separate.  That's not crying wolf. 

[washparkhorn 9939]

3 minutes ago, PassiveAggressiveCoach said:

It's the publically available numbers.  It aggregates them so it's only as good as the data released from those countries.  This as trustworthy as the data is from each individual country. Try to keep up. Unless you know of some super secret numbers? 

Since the current relevant metric is vacancy rates at hospitals, not testing, present us with hospital numbers that demonstrate relevant facts.. Dazzle us.

[PassiveAggressiveCoach 118]

1 minute ago, washparkhorn said:

Since the current relevant metric is vacancy rates at hospitals, not testing, present us with hospital numbers that demonstrate relevant facts.. Dazzle us.

No the most relevant data is death rate. Is it tied to hospital beds? Yes, but so are many other data points like age and cormorbidities. 

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20471]

4 minutes ago, PassiveAggressiveCoach said:

UK,  Belgium, Italy and Spain all have more deaths per capita than the US. 

Gee ... I wonder why?

Population density per square mile:

UK - 725

Italy - 518

Belgium - 973

Spain - 240 

U.S. - 87

 

[Dahobbs 17654]

16 minutes ago, PassiveAggressiveCoach said:

UK,  Belgium, Italy and Spain all have more deaths per capita than the US. 

How fucking dumb are you? Those were listed in my post that you quoted. Any response to the 35 European countries with lower per capita deaths?

Edited December 9, 2020 by Dahobbs

[Brisketexan 105272]

1 minute ago, PassiveAggressiveCoach said:

No the most relevant data is death rate. Is it tied to hospital beds? Yes, but so are many other data points like age and cormorbidities. 

The bolded.....is spectacularly stupid.  That is ONLY true if the sole negative outcome of COVID is death.  That is, you are either fine, or you die.  And we know with certainty that is NOT true.  We know that for every person who dies, dozens have long-term negative health effects -- heart damage, etc.

Jesus fucking Christ.  What was terrifying about polio wasn't just the death rate -- it included another negative outcome, paralysis.

That's why hospitalization is absolutely the right metric here.

[washparkhorn 9939]

2 minutes ago, PassiveAggressiveCoach said:

No the most relevant data is death rate. Is it tied to hospital beds? Yes, but so are many other data points like age and cormorbidities. 

Wrong. No room at hospitals = lost opportunity to treat/save patients (which increases death rate per 100,000). 

 

[bolverk 29708]

Y'all just put this stupid piece of shit on ignore. He takes one static data point and applies it to widely divergent situations without any context.

If you look at the per capita death rates to make the comparison without looking at when the deaths were occurring then, yes, you would absolutely have an inaccurate comparison. Those places who got hit early in this thing all have astronomical death rates. Since the outbreak medical care has improved AND the population cohorts who are most likely to be exposed has narrowed in general to exclude those groups who are most susceptible to succumbing to the virus.

https://nyulangone.org/news/study-helps-explain-declines-death-rates-covid-19

Those places that got hit early got hit hardest. Those who got hit later learned a lot from the first. It's that simple. Worldometers is fine for tracking the daily counts and the cumulative one, but it does a shitty job of looking at the actual data series to see the actual trend lines that correlate deaths with cases.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/world/coronavirus-maps.html

[BradInATX 9208]

My favorite part was him spiking the football as if only being 11th worst for the country with the best and most expensive healthcare system in the world was some sort of badge of honor.

There are 10 shithole countries worse than us! We did it!

[Sawbonz 27583]

3 hours ago, PassiveAggressiveCoach said:

If my family is anything like the rest of the US our actual cases are many fold the reported cases. There are 5 of us. So there were 5 actual cases but only 1 positive test. My wife got sick 1st and tested positive. Then my 3 kids and I got symptoms 3 days later but we never got tested because we already knew we had it and what's the point? The 3 kids had it a day or so. Interesting thing is the 3 kids and I lost our taste and smell all on the same day. They were fine not feeling bad then they lost it after they got through the illness part. Took me a week to get over it. My taste several weeks later is the only lingering affect. Probably 80-90% back. So 15M tested cases in the US is probably real world 40-60M cases at least. 

CDC estimates 6 additional cases for every positive test so we likely are at 53M cases. That’s only 15% of the population so we have a shitload of people still at risk, and we are stressing the shit out of our healthcare system if only in terms of personnel. Critical care nurses are at their emotional and physical limits. Critical care physicians and mid-levels are approaching the same. Believe me, you do not want your loved one coming into the ER in respiratory distress and look up and see me with the laryngoscope in one hand and an endotracheal tube in the other, but it’s going to get there if people don’t start listening.

[PassiveAggressiveCoach 118]

1 minute ago, Sawbonz said:

CDC estimates 6 additional cases for every positive test so we likely are at 53M cases. That’s only 15% of the population so we have a shitload of people still at risk, and we are stressing the shit out of our healthcare system if only in terms of personnel. Critical care nurses are at their emotional and physical limits. Critical care physicians and mid-levels are approaching the same. Believe me, you do not want your loved one coming into the ER in respiratory distress and look up and see me with the laryngoscope in one hand and an endotracheal tube in the other, but it’s going to get there if people don’t start listening.

Everywhere I go where I live people are masked up.  People are spaced out.  I do see the people here and there no wearing masks but I'd bet we are at +90% compliance. At least where I live people are listening yet cases are skyrocketing. I thought about how this could be? There is only 1 way it can happen to this extent. There weren't even close to this many cases during wave 1 and people were definitely much worse at mask wearing. What's the disconnect? Most the spread has to be happening at home. 1 person brings it home then BAM 4 or 5 people have it.  That's what happened to me. I don't think there is a whole lot we can do more about that. We can't shut it all down again. I even notice it doesn't seem to matter which state you're in. Strict lockdown state or more loose. All exploding despite lockdown orders or not. 

[Bookman 4639]

5 minutes ago, PassiveAggressiveCoach said:

Everywhere I go where I live people are masked up.  People are spaced out.  I do see the people here and there no wearing masks but I'd bet we are at +90% compliance. At least where I live people are listening yet cases are skyrocketing. I thought about how this could be? There is only 1 way it can happen to this extent. There weren't even close to this many cases during wave 1 and people were definitely much worse at mask wearing. What's the disconnect? Most the spread has to be happening at home. 1 person brings it home then BAM 4 or 5 people have it.  That's what happened to me. I don't think there is a whole lot we can do more about that. We can't shut it all down again. I even notice it doesn't seem to matter which state you're in. Strict lockdown state or more loose. All exploding despite lockdown orders or not. 

People have to mask up, space out, and wash hands all of the time. Next time you go to H-E-B notice how many aren't spaced out. Notice how many aren't wearing the masks correctly.

Spacing out works. If you want proof notice that Biden didn't catch Trump's corona germs at the first debate.

[Sawbonz 27583]

Mask usage is not close to 90% and there are people gathering in greater numbers than recommended all over the place. Following dear leader’s and his moronic minions’ example. And the idiot dems with the do as I say not as I do are not helping

[Sawbonz 27583]

Just now, Bookman said:

People have to mask up, space out, and wash hands all of the time. Next time you go to H-E-B notice how many aren't spaced out. Notice how many aren't wearing the masks correctly.

Spacing out works. If you want proof notice that Biden didn't catch Trump's corona germs at the first debate.

Just look at the rates of covid infection of republican vs democrat in congress

[Neonmoon 38130]

Ugh that’s one of my pet peeves at the grocery store. No distancing. I try to stay away from everyone when I’m in the store. The mask mitigates spread very well but it’s not a magic wand. You still need to try and stay away from others. 

[mdmost 43026]

I'd imagine people not keeping masks on in places that are small like restaurants and bars has a lot to do with it. There was some contact tracing that found places in poorer areas like convenience stores and bodegas were a large spreader of Covid to communities already more likely to get the virus. Then you also have morons who have indoor Thanksgiving dinners in crowded homes. It's not that hard to figure out why we're seeing the huge numbers. People are fucking dumb. 

[BradInATX 9208]

Everywhere I go where I live people are masked up.  People are spaced out.  I do see the people here and there no wearing masks but I'd bet we are at +90% compliance. At least where I live people are listening yet cases are skyrocketing. I thought about how this could be? There is only 1 way it can happen to this extent. There weren't even close to this many cases during wave 1 and people were definitely much worse at mask wearing. What's the disconnect? Most the spread has to be happening at home. 1 person brings it home then BAM 4 or 5 people have it.  That's what happened to me. I don't think there is a whole lot we can do more about that. We can't shut it all down again. I even notice it doesn't seem to matter which state you're in. Strict lockdown state or more loose. All exploding despite lockdown orders or not. 

You're mostly right. The key is to prevent the 1 from bringing it home which means masks and distance in public. Large swaths of society are "over it" and not even willing to do that part, and here we are.