CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk

[Anastasis 23,469]

2 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

 

PFE fucked up their supply chain and now their logistics breaking down.  They chose specifically to dial out of the McKesson system that was tied into HHS/WarpSpeed/Whatever. At one point that appeared to present them an advantage.  Maybe not so fast my friends. 

[BradInATX 9,208]

It almost feels like either an act of god or a testament to the strength of our country that we made it 3 years 10 months and 27 days without any major tangible ramifications for the Trump administration's stupidity. Now in a span of two days our nuclear IT infrustructure has been hacked and the HHS, after nine months of this pandemic, has not set up adequate processes and infrastructure to push vaccine out rapidly. 

We almost got away with it. But incompetence always catches up to you.

[honolulu horn 6,158]

I report on US death totals every week. Today we're up to 309,000. That exceeds the equivalent of the populations of several NFL team cities: Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, St Louis, Buffalo, and Green Bay. Also several NBA cities. 

It's unbelievable that this government has fucked around and found out so much that the equivalents of these major cities are dead. Imagine driving through Pittsburgh, Orlando, St. Paul, Newark, Salt Lake City, or Buffalo and seeing every resident dead. For you in Texas the virus has wiped out the equivalent populations of Plano, Irving, Garland, Lubbock, Laredo,  or plenty more. 

I know some smart asses will say "We're better off without Lubbock and Cincinnati" and while I agree in principle, go ahead and fuck off. This is bullshit. At a very conservative 2500 deaths per day, we're looking at killing off the equivalent of Honolulu by Dec 31. I'm in Honolulu as I type and that is a very sobering reality. 

[BradInATX 9,208]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

PFE fucked up their supply chain and now their logistics breaking down.  They chose specifically to dial out of the McKesson system that was tied into HHS/WarpSpeed/Whatever. At one point that appeared to present them an advantage.  Maybe not so fast my friends. 

It's Pfizer's fault that they decided to integrate with the HHS system and said HHS system turns out to be garbage?

That's literally a direct analogue to blaming the beaten wife for not seeing her husband's future potential for wife beating. Fuck's sake, man.

[BradInATX 9,208]

2 minutes ago, honolulu horn said:

I report on US death totals every week. Today we're up to 309,000. That exceeds the equivalent of the populations of several NFL team cities: Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, St Louis, Buffalo, and Green Bay. Also several NBA cities. 

It's unbelievable that this government has fucked around and found out so much that the equivalents of these major cities are dead. Imagine driving through Pittsburgh, Orlando, St. Paul, Newark, Salt Lake City, or Buffalo and seeing every resident dead. For you in Texas the virus has wiped out the equivalent populations of Plano, Irving, Garland, Lubbock, Laredo,  or plenty more. 

I know some smart asses will say "We're better off without Lubbock and Cincinnati" and while I agree in principle, go ahead and fuck off. This is bullshit. At a very conservative 2500 deaths per day, we're looking at killing off the equivalent of Honolulu by Dec 31. I'm in Honolulu as I type and that is a very sobering reality. 

Definitely better off without Lubbock and Newark but now we're starting to lose great cities. Pittsburgh is one of the best cities in our entire country. Cincy, Buffalo, GB all underrated. I guess we can live without St. Louis.

Edited December 18, 2020 by BradInATX

[Anastasis 23,469]

1 minute ago, BradInATX said:

It's Pfizer's fault that they decided to integrate with the HHS system and said HHS system turns out to be garbage?

That's literally a direct analogue to blaming the beaten wife for not seeing her husband's future potential for wife beating. Fuck's sake, man.

They specifically decided not to integrate with the federal government system.

I was inclined to think that they had made the right decision and that their production and logistics would prove superior. 

Doesn't appear to be the case. 

What I see is a bunch of deflection at this point because both their supply chain and logistics are not really performing. 

[BradInATX 9,208]

Just now, Anastasis said:

They specifically decided not to integrate with the federal government system.

I was inclined to think that they had made the right decision and that their production and logistics would prove superior. 

Doesn't appear to be the case. 

What I see is a bunch of deflection at this point because both their supply chain and logistics are not really performing. 

Their press release reads that they have a bunch of vaccines sitting in a warehouse with no direction from the government, and they've offered more capacity with no response. What am I missing?

[Anastasis 23,469]

Just now, BradInATX said:

Their press release reads that they have a bunch of vaccines sitting in a warehouse with no direction from the government, and they've offered more capacity with no response. What am I missing?

They specifically decided to run an alternate distribution logistics system, separate from HHS's programs. They appear to be blaming the disconnect on HHS, which I am inclined to believe. But I think maybe we should consider the fact that PFE choosing to run a totally separate distribution network outside the feds/McKesson instead of integrating into that may also play a significant role.  

[Anastasis 23,469]

4 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Their press release...

Or just this...

[BradInATX 9,208]

3 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

They specifically decided to run an alternate distribution logistics system, separate from HHS's programs. They appear to be blaming the disconnect on HHS, which I am inclined to believe. But I think maybe we should consider the fact that PFE choosing to run a totally separate distribution network outside the feds/McKesson instead of integrating into that may also play a significant role.  

 

In a debate on incompetence between the second biggest pharma in the world with a $200 billion market cap, and the Trump administration, I'm always going to go latter until proven otherwise. Because my IQ is, perhaps barely, not below 60.

[Cairn Horn88 8,264]

I think Santa could just give Errrrrbody a vaccine shot next Friday while he’s making his rounds.   Gzzzzz.  Do I have to do all the thinking on this site?

[Anastasis 23,469]

3 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

 

In a debate on incompetence between the second biggest pharma in the world with a $200 billion market cap, and the Trump administration, I'm always going to go latter until proven otherwise. Because my IQ is, perhaps barely, not below 60.

I tend to agree, but PFE specifically chose to go their own route. Seems to be a bit of messaging to turn around and blame the lack of interoperability on the government.  This coming from someone inclined to blame the government for every break down. 

[TwiceHorn 31,471]

The logistical portion of Warp Speed is being handled primarily by the US Army. specifically the Materiel Command.

Yes, it's the federal government, but it has to be one of the least Trump-infected areas of the federal government.

[mchookem 16,336]

i mean, they say they are having weekly meetings with HHS/feds, and that they have warehouses of vaccine ready to go.

i would assume they say 'we have warehouses of vaccine ready to go' at these weekly meetings. i would also think the question of 'where do you want 'em?' also comes up at these meetings. 

[NWBuck 8,566]

5 hours ago, Cairn Horn88 said:

Not if it were a Sunday, tho.

[Nope 3,114]

2 hours ago, Cairn Horn88 said:

I think Santa could just give Errrrrbody a vaccine shot next Friday while he’s making his rounds.   Gzzzzz.  Do I have to do all the thinking on this site?

Santa is a super spreader

[NWBuck 8,566]

8 minutes ago, Nope said:

Santa is a super spreader

It is the season for giving

[workswithseed 2,106]

3 hours ago, NWBuck said:

It is the season for giving

Santa's Slay

[DDD Dad 14,339]

I think Santa could just give Errrrrbody a vaccine shot next Friday while he’s making his rounds.   Gzzzzz.  Do I have to do all the thinking on this site?

More like South Austin’s mom. Amirite?

[Wanker Bob 379]

9 hours ago, BradInATX said:

It almost feels like either an act of god or a testament to the strength of our country that we made it 3 years 10 months and 27 days without any major tangible ramifications for the Trump administration's stupidity. Now in a span of two days our nuclear IT infrustructure has been hacked and the HHS, after nine months of this pandemic, has not set up adequate processes and infrastructure to push vaccine out rapidly. 

We almost got away with it. But incompetence always catches up to you.

Nowhere near 300k people would be dead for this if just a regularly competent president were in office. Also, most likely thousands of businesses wouldn't have folded and millions tossed into unemployment if Dems controlled all 3 branches and set up a system similar to Germany's and, well, the entirely of the economic first world (except Sweden). 

[BradInATX 9,208]

Nowhere near 300k people would be dead for this if just a regularly competent president were in office. Also, most likely thousands of businesses wouldn't have folded and millions tossed into unemployment if Dems controlled all 3 branches and set up a system similar to Germany's and, well, the entirely of the economic first world (except Sweden). 

"tangible"

[safe sex 11,727]

1 minute ago, BradInATX said:

2 minutes ago, Wanker Bob said:

Nowhere near 300k people would be dead for this if just a regularly competent president were in office. Also, most likely thousands of businesses wouldn't have folded and millions tossed into unemployment if Dems controlled all 3 branches and set up a system similar to Germany's and, well, the entirely of the economic first world (except Sweden). 

"tangible"

I imagine families consider their now dead loved ones to have been pretty tangible, no?

Edited December 18, 2020 by trauma babe
diction

[Wanker Bob 379]

If probably a couple hundred thousand dead, thousands of businesses bankrupt and millions of jobs lost in a few months isn't tangible then... Damn

Edited December 18, 2020 by Wanker Bob

[Wanker Bob 379]

1 minute ago, Wanker Bob said:

 

Still getting used to the new layout

Edited December 18, 2020 by Wanker Bob

[BradInATX 9,208]

It's not quantifiable. There aren't 80,000 dead in a warehouse somewhere with "Trump" written on them. 2.6 million doses in a warehouse going unused is a tangible, quantifiable number.

Don't be pedantic. Not every post needs to be an opportunity to hyperbolize how terrible Trump is. We are all aware that he is terrible. 

[fattyflattie 4,639]

12 minutes ago, Wanker Bob said:

Also, most likely thousands of businesses wouldn't have folded and millions tossed into unemployment if Dems controlled all 3 branches and set up a system similar to Germany's and, well, the entirely of the economic first world (except Sweden). 

Maningreenshirtlaughing.gif

[Dahobbs 17,534]

11 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

It's not quantifiable. There aren't 80,000 dead in a warehouse somewhere with "Trump" written on them. 2.6 million doses in a warehouse going unused is a tangible, quantifiable number.

Don't be pedantic. Not every post needs to be an opportunity to hyperbolize how terrible Trump is. We are all aware that he is terrible. 

Is it them or you that is being pedantic? 

[Wanker Bob 379]

4 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

It's not quantifiable. There aren't 80,000 dead in a warehouse somewhere with "Trump" written on them. 2.6 million doses in a warehouse going unused is a tangible, quantifiable number.

Don't be pedantic. Not every post needs to be an opportunity to hyperbolize how terrible Trump is. We are all aware that he is terrible. 

Just because an exact quantity of deaths prevented cannot be established doesn't mean it isn't tangible. Especially when we can view the infection rates of similarly situated first world countries who chose more aggressive policies with a much bigger financial support system and extrapolate. The numbers of jobs and businesses lost can definitely be quantified and are just as tangible. 

Then you have things like the rebuke of the climate accord, the breaking of the Iran treaty, establishing a much greater degree of affective polarization in the population, and many more general assaults on political norms of decency that the full ramifications may not be felt for a while but are be very real. Much like the Republicans assault on public education over the last 40 years is now being fully realized with a completely stupid and ignorant average population. 

We're not through being fucked over by Trump and the Republicans bullshit the last several years. Ain't through with us by a damn sight. 

 

[BradInATX 9,208]

11 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Is it them or you that is being pedantic? 

I don't know, it's hard to tell. Was it me that took a post trashing the Trump admin about their handling of the vaccine, latched on to it, and derailed the discussion into a debate about whether or not the original post bashed Trump hard enough based on a single word in the post? I forget. Who here derailed a good conversation about the vaccine into yet another "you're not bashing Trump hard enough!!" sidebar which of course the Cloak Room is lacking?

Edited December 18, 2020 by BradInATX

[BradInATX 9,208]

1 minute ago, Wanker Bob said:

Just because an exact quantity of deaths prevented cannot be established doesn't mean it isn't tangible

 

 

It literally does.

[Wanker Bob 379]

14 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Maningreenshirtlaughing.gif

If you don't think the people who created the affordable care act, a substantive first attempt at insuring millions of uninsured Americans, would have set up a response safety net system more beneficial to the entirety of the population than Republicans then

 

 

[BradInATX 9,208]

The funny part is last night when I made that post I actually almost made a postscript saying "please don't derail this into a pedantic debate over semantics regarding my 'tangible outcomes' comment". But I figured, even here where oftentimes a post that only bashes Trump 98% gets people riled up for not bashing him 100%, nobody would be silly enough to need that disclaimer.

My bad. 

[Wanker Bob 379]

5 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

 

It literally does.

[BradInATX 9,208]

 

 

Edited December 18, 2020 by BradInATX

[Wanker Bob 379]

Just now, BradInATX said:

The funny part is last night when I made that post I actually almost made a postscript saying "please don't derail this into a pedantic debate over semantics regarding my 'tangible outcomes' comment". But I figured, even here where oftentimes a post that only bashes Trump 98% gets people riled up for not bashing him 100%, nobody would be silly enough to need that disclaimer.

My bad. 

If you're going to say something stupid then might want to expect it. Even if you don't focus on the deaths number the jobs lost and businesses bankrupt/closed are definitely quantifiable. But oh well go forth and believe what ye likes. 

[BradInATX 9,208]

2 minutes ago, Wanker Bob said:

If you're going to say something stupid then might want to expect it. Even if you don't focus on the deaths number the jobs lost and businesses bankrupt/closed are definitely quantifiable. But oh well go forth and believe what ye likes. 

 

The number of businesses that closed because of Trump's actions/inaction vs. those that would have closed because of the pandemic regardless are by no means quantifiable or tangible. 

The only thing we know is that it's "more". That's as close as we can get. "More" is not a tangible number. 

Edited December 18, 2020 by BradInATX

[Wanker Bob 379]

1 minute ago, BradInATX said:

 

 

Definition of tangible: something that is tangible 

Here's a better one:

capable of being perceived especially by the sense of touch : palpable. b : substantially real : material. 

 

[Dahobbs 17,534]

6 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

 

 

I'm pretty sure quoting the 2nd or 3rd entry, which happens to be the narrowest definition of a word, to support your point is quite literally pedantic. 

Edited December 18, 2020 by Dahobbs

[BradInATX 9,208]

Just now, Wanker Bob said:

Definition of tangible: something that is tangible 

Here's a better one:

capable of being perceived especially by the sense of touch : palpable. b : substantially real : material. 

 

 

I'm not sure you understand how to read the dictionary. An unquantifiable number is not palpable, capable of being perceived by touch, material, or substantially real.

This is legitimately one of the stupidest most pedantic fucking arguments that has ever existed on this board, which is full of them. You took a post bashing Trump, made by someone well-established to absolutely loathe Trump and his incompetent administration, and threw a tantrum over the word "tangible" which you don't even understand the definition of. Good job.

[BradInATX 9,208]

6 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

I'm pretty sure quoting the 2nd or 3rd entry, which happens to be the narrowest definition of a word, to support your point is quite literally pedantic. 

I quoted the second entry because the first one was "able to be touched" which obviously doesn't fit. I actually had to go three to four sources deep to find a definition that wasn't "being able to be perceived by the senses". I was trying to actually play ball in the childish ass field that Wanker Bob rolled out for us to play on. I could have just posted the first three definitions I found related to tangible meaning "able to be touched" and made this argument look even more ridiculous. But I'm not petty like that.

But anyway, I'm done with this nonsense. Ya'll are free to continue to police the boards for posts that aren't sufficiently critical of Trump, but leave me out of it. 

Edited December 18, 2020 by BradInATX

[cactusflinthead 27,598]

Sweatergawd 

Y'all are going to argue over tangible for a while aren't you?

 

[BradInATX 9,208]

3 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

Sweatergawd 

Y'all are going to argue over tangible for a while aren't you?

 

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20,400]

NPR reports on Bruneau, Idaho.   Holy fuck we are screwed.   And screw the Republicans for turning masks into a political "freedom"  issue. 

https://www.npr.org/2020/12/18/947544670/a-rural-school-under-pressure-to-stay-open-people-are-just-rough-and-tough

Edited December 18, 2020 by Horn Under a Bad Sign

[Biff Tannen 45,685]

6 minutes ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

NPR reports on Bruneau, Idaho.   Holy fuck we are screwed.

https://www.npr.org/2020/12/18/947544670/a-rural-school-under-pressure-to-stay-open-people-are-just-rough-and-tough

Selected passages

Quote

"I'm not scared of the virus, I guess," she adds. "It seems like it's just another string of the flu."

It's not. COVID-19 has killed more than 1,200 Idahoans so far this year, six times more than the flu has annually in recent seasons.

 

 

Narrator: They don't.

Quote

Sariah Pearson teaches fourth and fifth grades at Bruneau Elementary. She got COVID-19 and was sidelined for almost six weeks this fall.

She's back in the classroom, feeling better, and even paid $300 for a special air filtration system, and frequently keeps her windows open to be safe. But her story hasn't had much of an effect on the town's attitudes about the pandemic.

"Most people don't really want to hear about it," Pearson says. "Even though they care about me, it does not translate over."

 

[cactusflinthead 27,598]

3 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

So Bolsonaro saying the Pfizer vaccine might turn you into an alligator isn't interesting?

 

[Dahobbs 17,534]

6 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

I quoted the second entry because the first one was "able to be touched" which obviously doesn't fit. I actually had to go three to four sources deep to find a definition that wasn't "being able to be perceived by the senses". I was trying to actually play ball in the childish ass field that Wanker Bob rolled out for us to play on. I could have just posted the first three definitions I found related to tangible meaning "able to be touched" and made this argument look even more ridiculous. But I'm not petty like that.

But anyway, I'm done with this nonsense. Ya'll are free to continue to police the boards for posts that aren't sufficiently critical of Trump, but leave me out of it. 

I'm mainly just fucking with you. I'm just perplexed why you didn't just say "maybe it wasn't the best choice of word, you know what I mean." 

That said, I disagree with your premise. I think there have been plenty of real (https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/tangible 1), material (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tangible 1b), and substantial (https://www.dictionary.com/browse/tangible 1) ramifications to his presidency prior to the last few weeks. I do agree that the most recent events are much more likely to have long term implications to the survivability of the United States. 

[HenryJames 66,052]

Should we prioritize the vaccine by mortality? 

[Dahobbs 17,534]

8 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

Should we prioritize the vaccine by mortality? 

I don't think that is necessarily the best metric to use. I get where they are coming from, but I think you have to look at blend between mortality and chance of exposure. Front line healthcare workers are pretty much guaranteed to get Covid. I think your expected negative outcomes in that population given the increased exposure (and downstream effects of having sick healthcare workers) is almost certainly higher than any other group.

Edited December 18, 2020 by Dahobbs

[BradInATX 9,208]

Yeah, that doesn't really make sense to me. If the healthcare workers all get vaccinated, then the olds at nursing homes are basically bubbled off from the virus without actually getting the vaccine. Healthcare workers, teachers, and other essential workers don't have the option to be bubbled off from the world. The olds can sit at home for another month or two. Doctors and nurses and techs and teachers don't have that privilege.

Not only that but if healthcare workers start getting the virus in high numbers, it decreases quality of care across the board for everyone in ICU. 

This seems like people searching for reasons to be upset where they're not there. Healthcare workers then olds is absolutely the way to go. I'd even put retail and other essential workers ahead of the olds, but that one's not as clear-cut to me. 

Nate Silver should probably stick to being wrong about election results.

Edited December 18, 2020 by BradInATX

[aggie08 21,504]

Honestly, we should probably give it to the super spreaders first. You know, Republicans.