CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

On 12/26/2020 at 3:33 PM, mdmost said:

What are you guys talking about with damn Dallas or damn Texas. We won! We beat this thing! It's time to go to an indoor church service and sing! This is Prestonwood Baptist Church in Plano. 

 

Found this pic of some of their members...

 

 

I did not know there was an East Texas Box Face Baptist denomination. 

 

Also, as to the original pic, I read that was at the Prosper campus. Where they had three more the same day, and there were four more at the Plano campus. 

So eight Xmas Eve Superspreader Events for Jesus.

 

Edited December 28, 2020 by MaybeACoordinator

[workswithseed 2111]

5 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

This blows 

 

South California? They've been under such a hard lockdown too.

[NWBuck 8586]

2 hours ago, workswithseed said:

South California? They've been under such a hard lockdown too.

I thought rationing care was something that the Democrat Death Panels were in charge of. 

Edited December 28, 2020 by NWBuck

[Bama Chick 28596]

This could go in so many threads but I think Covid is the most responsible for 2020 being what it was.

[washparkhorn 9939]

[washparkhorn 9939]

3 hours ago, workswithseed said:

South California? They've been under such a hard lockdown too.

hmm . . . anyone want to tell him - or should I?

[UpperWestside 6189]

On 12/26/2020 at 9:23 PM, Continental Op said:

Tons of them will be able to tell Jesus happy birthday in person next year.

I have been to that church for two funerals. The last one was in September 2015 and Neal Jeffrey presided over it. 
 

That picture saddens me. The selfishness on display by going there while our country is reeling from COVID at a level we have not seen since the pandemic began is almost despicable. That is a superspreader event in the making. 

 

[Nivek 16986]

 
Found this pic of some of their members...
 

 
I did not know there was an East Texas Box Face Baptist denomination. 
 
Also, as to the original pic, I read that was at the Prosper campus. Where they had three more the same day, and there were four more at the Plano campus. 

So eight Xmas Eve Superspreader Events for Jesus.
 

They need that holiday cash.

[workswithseed 2111]

8 hours ago, NWBuck said:

I thought rationing care was something that the Democrat Death Panels were in charge of. 

Still doesn't answer how SoCal is under such pressure.

7 hours ago, washparkhorn said:

hmm . . . anyone want to tell him - or should I?

 

 

[Foosters 17888]

1 hour ago, workswithseed said:

Still doesn't answer how SoCal is under such pressure.

 

Quote

The dire situation has prompted confusion and dismay among Angelenos, many of whom are wondering whether their sacrifices over the past nine months have been for naught. L.A. County was an early adopter of masks, quickly instituted stay-at-home orders in March and November and, until this point, has kept its rate of coronavirus cases and COVID-19 deaths relatively low.

So what went wrong?

Interviews with 31 epidemiologists, health experts and public officials offer clues: L.A. was far more vulnerable to an extreme crisis than nearly anywhere else in the nation.

The trifecta of fatigue, winter weather and holiday travel that has led to more coronavirus transmission across the country hit here, too — and became the match that lit the tinderbox.

The popular image of L.A. — hillside mansions, urban sprawl and drivers cocooned in their cars — belies the gritty reality. L.A. County, home to more than 10 million people, suffers from high rates of poverty and homelessness, huge numbers of essential workers and some of the densest neighborhoods in the nation.

“There is no city as large and complex as L.A. The closest might be New York. And we saw what happened in New York,” said Dr. Kirsten Bibbins-Domingo, an epidemiologist at UC San Francisco.

Experts also pin L.A.’s problems on rules that can appear inconsistent or arbitrary, as well as a confusing patchwork of policies across Southern California. Additionally, the county is investigating whether a more contagious strain of the virus, circulating in the United Kingdom, could be partly to blame.

L.A. for the most part has taken the right steps, according to epidemiologists, and with a bit of good luck, managed to keep a crisis at bay for months.

“Now, some of that luck has run out,” Garcetti said.

November brought a surge

A surge in coronavirus cases that began in early November put L.A. County officials on watch.

By Thanksgiving week, 4,000 people were testing positive each day, at the time a record for the county. L.A. County Public Health Director Barbara Ferrer thought the numbers had likely reached their peak.

Then Thanksgiving hit.

“We realized, ‘Oh, my God. We’ve got everyone traveling, like hundreds of thousands of people are traveling,’” she said in an interview last week. “We at that point got really scared, because we just sort of knew in our core that we were headed to a surge on top of a surge.”

L.A. County now averages 14,000 new coronavirus cases a day.

The coronavirus took off throughout California in November, the beginning of a spike that had been predicted months prior. The progression mirrored that of the 1918 flu pandemic in the U.S., when the fall peak was five times greater than that of the spring.

The coronavirus is thought to thrive in colder, drier weather, making transmission more likely during this time of the year. Short days in the winter may also push people to spend more time indoors, where the virus can easily spread.

Until November, California had avoided the huge outbreaks that had erupted elsewhere in the nation, so once the virus started circulating more, a higher proportion of the state’s population may have been susceptible, experts say. Additionally, having not seen as much early devastation firsthand, Californians may have had a false sense of confidence that the pandemic was manageable.

“People get tired,” said Dr. Grant Colfax, San Francisco’s public health director. “This has been a long 10 months, and I think people started to let their guard down a little more, because we were in relatively good shape.”

Once transmission picked up in the fall, L.A. faced unique challenges.

L.A. County has a huge manufacturing sector and two of the biggest ports in the nation — industries staffed by people who work in the kind of close quarters that can facilitate spread of the virus. L.A.’s factories — where individual outbreaks have infected more than 400 people — have been a major driver of cases throughout the pandemic.

L.A. County also has a high “social vulnerability” score as calculated by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, a measure of how severely affected a region may be by a natural disaster or disease outbreak, based on factors that include average income, education and housing status. The county’s score is worse than anywhere in the Bay Area or neighboring Ventura and Orange counties, suggesting that it was always going to be more difficult for L.A. to withstand a COVID-19 surge without deadly consequences.

“That’s what’s come home to roost: that Los Angeles has the combination of poverty and density that leads to a virus like this being able to spread much more quickly and be more devastating,” Garcetti said.

L.A.’s expensive housing market also hurt the region. While density measures how many people live in a geographical area, another metric, known as “crowding,” tracks how many people live in a home. Having more than one person per room, excluding bathrooms, is considered overcrowded.

But in L.A., it is common for a working-class family of four, five or even more to share a costly one-bedroom apartment.

Among the 25 biggest metropolitan areas in America, L.A. has the highest percentage of overcrowded homes, according to 2019 data from the U.S. Census Bureau. Eleven percent of L.A. homes are considered overcrowded, compared with about 6% in New York and the Bay Area.

An analysis published in June in the Journal of the American Medical Assn. found that the odds of falling sick from the coronavirus were not significantly affected by the poverty rate or density of a person’s neighborhood but clearly increased as overcrowding increased. A cramped home may have nowhere for an infected person to isolate to prevent others from falling ill.

“The more people you have infected, and the more densely people are housed, the more links there are going to be,” said UC San Francisco epidemiologist Dr. George Rutherford.

In a county as large as L.A., that spread turned into “exponential growth,” with each new person infected making it more likely that others would become infected, Ferrer said. Currently, 1 in 95 people in the county is estimated to be infectious with the coronavirus.

‘I don’t think people are listening’

Ferrer is now focusing on breaking the cycle of transmission. Her department banned outdoor restaurant dining, and state officials issued a regional stay-at-home order that lasts through the holidays. But she knows she has lost some public trust in recent months.

In the spring, “I would drive to work each day, and there would be, like, two cars on the road — nobody was out. And we definitely don’t have that this time around,” Ferrer said. “I don’t think people are listening as much.”

Ferrer said dissenting views from local elected public officials that have emerged in recent months have eroded adherence to regulations. Two members of the county Board of Supervisors, Kathryn Barger and Janice Hahn, excoriated the Department of Public Health for pushing the ban on outdoor dining. The three other supervisors and Garcetti have backed public health officials.

“As soon as there’s a sense that there’s not unity — that we’re not all speaking with one voice — also creates a different kind of confusion and, in some cases, has given rise to a lot of defiance,” Ferrer said. “That’s a disaster for us.”

In San Francisco, where officials report that new daily coronavirus cases have started to level off, visits to retail and recreation spots are down by 55% compared with the baseline, according to Google’s COVID-19 Community Mobility Report. In L.A. County, they’re down by just 24%.

Some experts suggest that L.A.’s decreasing adherence to public health guidelines may be due to overly strict rules that have sown distrust among a once-compliant public. The recent controversial closure of playgrounds (later reversed) and ban on small outdoor gatherings, while indoor retail businesses remain open, have led to criticism that decisions are being driven by economics instead of public health considerations.

“Gatherings with masks outside are a very low-risk activity, and so, to restrict that, I think, is misguided,” said Leo Beletsky, a health sciences professor at Northeastern University. “There’s been a number of instances where restrictions have not been closely tailored to the evidence and haven’t been clearly communicated, which has opened the door to misinformation.”

Ferrer and other experts have defended rules to reinstate a ban on most gatherings, pointing out that it’s clear that when people aren’t mixing, new infections go down. She acknowledged, however, that it’s a complicated message to explain that activities considered OK a few months ago are no longer safe, because of the sheer number of people who are ill.

In general, the rules in place throughout the pandemic have helped L.A. greatly, Ferrer said — a view with which many experts agreed.

While L.A.’s case numbers are astronomical, that is in part due to widespread testing, making it hard to compare the region to other parts of the country, she said. When it comes to cumulative rates of death, which are less influenced by the availability of testing, 93 of every 100,000 people in L.A. County have died of COVID-19, fewer than the 134 in Illinois, 121 in Arizona and 103 in Florida. If L.A. County were a state, it would rank about 28th in terms of death rate.

L.A.’s death toll remains far from the calamity of New York in the spring. New York City has reported nearly 25,000 COVID-19 deaths in total, compared with L.A. County’s 9,400.

But Ferrer knows that could soon change. The sound of sirens became a soundtrack to the holiday weekend in parts of L.A., as hospitals were swarmed with COVID-19 patients. Early data show high rates of travel last week, suggesting that a devastating, even worse, surge looms.

Already, Gov. Gavin Newsom has ordered 5,000 body bags, most of them earmarked for Los Angeles County.

 

Edited December 28, 2020 by Foosters

[HenryJames 66171]

 

[horn4life 3783]

Imagine where we might be had our President not decided that mask wearing and personal freedom might be a good election year issue?

[Js1 85574]

38 minutes ago, Foosters said:

 

He isn't going to read that. 

[JFKFC 4891]

 

[jimmyjazz 46130]

9 minutes ago, Js1 said:

He isn't going able to read that. 

Minor edit.

[workswithseed 2111]

“People get tired,” 

That is one big reason I can see why people are getting sick. 

‘I don’t think people are listening’

After seeing and hearing thier politicians tell them to stay inside as in say Gavin Newsom, and Nancy Pelosi totally disregard the rules, I'd say a mea culpa after months of being force in will people off.

14 minutes ago, Js1 said:

He iSn'T gOiNg tO rEaD tHaT. 

 

4 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Minor edit.

Hurdur. 

[wildcat09 29387]

Has a single person here ever defended any of the Democratic officials who have broken the rules? 

[brakeman 28423]

 

[Js1 85574]

2 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Has a single person here ever defended any of the Democratic officials who have broken the rules? 

In conservative fantasy land, that's all the cabal does.  Ignore the posts that show otherwise. 

[Foosters 17888]

Just now, Js1 said:

In conservative fantasy land, that's all the cabal does.  Ignore the posts that show otherwise. 

Certain Dem politicians have done real harm by flouting the rules they insist are necessary to save lives. Those actions pale in comparison to the "other side" ENCOURAGING people to: not wear masks, gather in groups without masks, and "rise up" against local govt regulations intended to depress the virus. But, because @workswithseedis a disingenuous troll, he's only outraged at democratic hypocrisy, not the GOP's intentional plan to spread the virus. 

[washparkhorn 9939]

2 hours ago, workswithseed said:

Still doesn't answer how SoCal is under such pressure.

(This was the third and biggest wave for California - thus far).

As a whole, Southern Californians did a great job in the first two waves.

By the third wave, compliance with public health orders was spotty at best in areas hard hit by Covid (see LA). Covid fatigue struck hard in LA.

As a result, the numbers have spiked here, hospital beds are scarce, and deaths in Southern California are soaring.  People lost the will to fight.

Edited December 28, 2020 by washparkhorn

[Biff Tannen 45738]

31 minutes ago, Foosters said:

But, because @workswithseedis a disingenuous troll, he's only outraged at democratic hypocrisy, not the GOP's intentional plan to spread the virus. 

I actually think he's a completely genuine and unaware troll.

[workswithseed 2111]

36 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Has a single person here ever defended any of the Democratic officials who have broken the rules? 

I never said that y'all did.

 

28 minutes ago, Foosters said:

Certain Dem politicians have done real harm by flouting the rules they insist are necessary to save lives. Those actions pale in comparison to the "other side" ENCOURAGING people to: not wear masks, gather in groups without masks, and "rise up" against local govt regulations intended to depress the virus. But, because @workswithseedis a disingenuous troll, he's only outraged at democratic hypocrisy, not the GOP's intentional plan to spread the virus. 

They weren't listening to Republicans until way later. There must be a reason why that is, if you think that's what is happening. You're being too idealogical to even see that to be the case. People laugh at idiots and don't listen to them, people despise uppity elitist who say one thing and do the other, and don't listen to them either.

[mdmost 43050]

40 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Has a single person here ever defended any of the Democratic officials who have broken the rules? 

In red pill land, you either do something 100% of the time or you lose complete credibility. But only if you're a Democrat. If you have an R next to your name or are red pill leaning, you can be as big a hypocrite as you want. 

[Foosters 17888]

Just now, workswithseed said:

 

You're being too idealogical to even see that to be the case. People laugh at idiots and don't listen to them 

So through your non-ideological lense, you perceive the greater political damage to have been done by hypocritical dems, as opposed to the entire GOP because "people think they are idiots and don't listen to them."

Is that your position?

[workswithseed 2111]

9 minutes ago, Foosters said:

So through your non-ideological lense, you perceive the greater political damage to have been done by hypocritical dems, as opposed to the entire GOP because "people think they are idiots and don't listen to them."

Is that your position?

Oh, I'm ideological. I just don't think you've thought of it that way. Republicans have been saying "Open up everything," from the start, but California now have been disregarding the rules. I think cause they're tired, and have seen hypocrisy from people they've believed that they could trust. 

Edited December 28, 2020 by workswithseed
I gotta get used that the edit button is at top now.

[workswithseed 2111]

3 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

 

 

Edited December 28, 2020 by workswithseed
Wtf?

[washparkhorn 9939]

2 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Republicans have been saying Open up everything," from the start, but California now have been disregarding the rules. I think cause they're tired, and have seen hypocrisy from people they've believed that they could trust. 

The elite hypocrisy on mitigation efforts certainly was a cherry on top, but it was a long and winding road to get to these levels.  And it started at the top with Trump's reckless disregard for public health measures during a pandemic. His followers used his actions like some get out of jail for free card and went hog wild. Once that level of recklessness hit a critical mass, many just said fuck it and went over the edge with the other lemmings. 

[Foosters 17888]

49 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Oh, I'm ideological. I just don't think you've thought of it that way. Republicans have been saying "Open up everything," from the start, but California now have been disregarding the rules. I think cause they're tired, and have seen hypocrisy from people they've believed that they could trust. 

I'm just happy we can finally agree that the regulations were working to mitigate the spread, and it was only after the weary citizens of CA gave up and followed the GOP model that things spiraled out of control.

[YChang 3462]

54 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

The elite hypocrisy on mitigation efforts certainly was a cherry on top, but it was a long and winding road to get to these levels.  And it started at the top with Trump's reckless disregard for public health measures during a pandemic. His followers used his actions like some get out of jail for free card and went hog wild. Once that level of recklessness hit a critical mass, many just said fuck it and went over the edge with the other lemmings. 

No no no... it’s the Dem hypocrisy that reallllllly did this. Just admit it already and stop being ideological. It all makes sense if you were a decent patriotic American.

[workswithseed 2111]

10 minutes ago, Foosters said:

I'm just happy we can finally agree that the regulations were working to mitigate the spread, and it was only after the weary citizens of CA gave up and followed the GOP model that things spiraled out of control.

The best policy to keep people from not spreading it is for people to not go out. Opening things up will make the transfers faster. 

 

58 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

The elite hypocrisy on mitigation efforts certainly was a cherry on top, but it was a long and winding road to get to these levels.  And it started at the top with Trump's reckless disregard for public health measures during a pandemic. His followers used his actions like some get out of jail for free card and went hog wild. Once that level of recklessness hit a critical mass, many just said fuck it and went over the edge with the other lemmings. 

So South California was overwrought with Trumpists?

[YChang 3462]

11 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

The best policy to keep people from not spreading it is for people to not go out. Opening things up will make the transfers faster. 

 

So South California was overwrought with Trumpists?

To be honest, I find your rhetoric really frustrating. Because I can’t tell if you’re trolling or not. I think in the grand scheme of things... there’s only so much policy can really “Do.” In a vacuum, having people stay home and reduce contact with others makes sense (to me) and was a sound policy all things considered. But that’s the rub ain’t it? Nothing is so cut and dry and exists only in a vacuum.  

So to some poster’s point — the messaging from Trump and some in the GOP early on didn’t help. To your point, the hypocrisy of some Dems recently didn’t help either. And so we’re left with people being people.. beings full of irrational biases and behaviors. Perhaps our American culture has a huge part to play in this versus what you see with citizens in some other parts of the world. 

[wildcat09 29387]

17 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

The best policy to keep people from not spreading it is for people to not go out. Opening things up will make the transfers faster. 

 

So South California was overwrought with Trumpists?

This might blow your mind, but there’s shitloads of Republicans in California.

[4th&Five 41590]

There are 6x more Trump voters in CA than Alabama.  You understand that, right?

[Pancho 44995]

3 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

There are 6x more Trump voters in CA than Alabama.  You understand that, right?

Narrator:  “He does not understand that.”

[Biff Tannen 45738]

11 minutes ago, YChang said:

Perhaps our American culture has a huge part to play in this versus what you see with citizens in some other parts of the world. 

A fuck ton of this.  Especially when you realize that at least 1/3 of our populace thinks our "culture" is "WHATEVA!  I DO WHAT I WANT!"  

There is no understanding that we are a collective society and citizens have responsibilities beyond their own selfish dumbass desires.

[washparkhorn 9939]

18 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

So Southern California was overwhelmed with Trumpists?

They were always there. A minority mob getting pushed further and further away from relevance and respect. 

[Judge Roybeanbag 11821]

47 minutes ago, Pancho said:

Narrator:  “He does not understand that.”

Yeah he probably doesn't.  To be fair though, until recent discussions about the electoral college, it didn't really occur to me that the Austin metro area , at 2.3 million, has more population that the states of North Dakota, South Dakota and Wyoming combined.  And they have 6 senators.  That's hard to grasp until you see it on paper repeatedly.

[workswithseed 2111]

1 hour ago, Pancho said:

Narrator:  “He does not understand that.

The population is 39.512 million in california, and 4.9 million in Alabama? Seems that there might be more Trump voters in California overall, but percentage wise 24% of registered voters are Republican in California. That ain't shit.

[workswithseed 2111]

1 hour ago, washparkhorn said:

They were always there. A minority mob getting pushed further and further away from relevance and respect. 

Exactly this, also very scattered and not mostly in big cities as well. 

 

1 hour ago, YChang said:

Perhaps our American culture has a huge part to play in this versus what you see with citizens in some other parts of the world. 

I think this is also true.

[Satchel 6949]

32 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Yeah he probably doesn't.  To be fair though, until recent discussions about the electoral college, it didn't really occur to me that the Austin metro area , at 2.3 million, has more population that the states of North Dakota, South Dakota and Wyoming combined.  And they have 6 senators.  That's hard to grasp until you see it on paper repeatedly.

There are 15 states with 30 Republican senators who represent fewer people than live in the state of California.

[4th&Five 41590]

10 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

The population is 39.512 million in california, and 4.9 million in Alabama? Seems that there might be more Trump voters in California overall, but percentage wise 24% of registered voters are Republican in California. That ain't shit.

25% of 40 million is more than enough morons to fuck it up for everyone. Just like it has nationwide. 

[workswithseed 2111]

10 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

25% of 40 million is more than enough morons to fuck it up for everyone. Just like it has nationwide. 

It's actually fewer than that, since it's people who are registered to vote, so out of 15,690,000 people who like I said, are scattered, and not all live in big cities. If most people are actually doing what the government asked them to do then about 4mill shouldn't really move the needle in a vacuum. I'm just talking about people who live in California and not people who came through California.

[Brisketexan 105336]

Just now, workswithseed said:

It's actually fewer than that, since it's people who are registered to vote, so out of 15,690,000 people who like I said, are scattered, and not all live in big cities. If most people are actually doing what the government asked them to do then about 4mill shouldn't really move the needle in a vacuum. I'm just talking about people who live in California and not people who came through California.

Dude.  HUGE swaths of California, including parts of SOCAL, are GOP as HELL.  I have friends there, and they run in large Trumpy circles.  And they are all on board with "open everything up, it's all a hoax."  The "fuck any restrictions, fuck masks" movement in California is massive.

[UpperWestside 6189]

9 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Dude.  HUGE swaths of California, including parts of SOCAL, are GOP as HELL.  I have friends there, and they run in large Trumpy circles.  And they are all on board with "open everything up, it's all a hoax."  The "fuck any restrictions, fuck masks" movement in California is massive.

Orange County is still going through the process of becoming a fully Democratic stronghold. Rouda lost his seat after taking Rohrabacher out in 2018. That area still has a metric ton of folks who do not believe a word from Fauci or what any disease specialist says. Kinda sad honestly.

[BradInATX 9208]

The entire GOP including the President has spent the last 9 months pushing anti-science, conspiracy theories, and telling people the virus is a hoax no worse than the flu.

It's three Democratic mayors' fault that we have the worst Covid deaths per capita in the first world.

[mchookem 16385]

2 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

A fuck ton of this.  Especially when you realize that at least 1/3 of our populace thinks our "culture" is "WHATEVA!  I DO WHAT I WANT!"  

There is no understanding that we are a collective society and citizens have responsibilities beyond their own selfish dumbass desires.

well, this was pretty much the USA since birth, right? our whole revolution and birth of a nation and manifest destiny and all that...we've ALWAYS said "WHATEVA! I DO WHAT I WANT!". the worst war in our history was 11 states just trying to do what they wanted. Texas was born from "I DO WHAT I WANT!"

it's American DNA. this is us. 

Edited December 28, 2020 by mchookem

[Armybrat 40910]

The massive increases of California infections are in their “Latinx” communities, so they are an unreported Red Wave we didn’t know about?

[washparkhorn 9939]

4 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

The massive increases of California infections are in their “Latinx” communities, so they are an unreported Red Wave we didn’t know about?

You are getting there, but still wide of the mark. 

The rate of infection among those "essential workers"  keeping the doors open for their bosses hits poorer neighborhoods harder - as was found early in the pandemic. Simple economics. Someone has to work so Trump Mamas and walruses can get their 10,000 calories a day. 

[workswithseed 2111]

29 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

The entire GOP including the President has spent the last 9 months pushing anti-science, conspiracy theories, and telling people the virus is a hoax no worse than the flu.

It's three Democratic mayors' fault that we have the worst Covid deaths per capita in the first world.


 

Hey, I guess all of a sudden the democrats in SoCal just didn't believe in the virus apparently. That makes sense.