CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk

[HenryJames 66228]

 

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

Sigh.

I love how all the brilliant people have decided that we should drop everything we were doing in China up to recently because it really makes so much sense to be IN TOTAL IGNORANCE about what Chinese scientists were working on. When we had people there, it served as a both a goodwill structure between countries and also as oversight.

Science and scientists have always been weaponized, certainly in authoritarian regimes, but China has poured a ton of money into their scientific infrastructure, whereas we have not; operating in the dark is not going to go well for us, I'm afraid. But any steps towards working collaboratively is going to get politicized and paint people with a traitorous brush.

In addition and off topic; notice the many fingers that point at Chinese pollution and say why should America be concerned with climate change, look at the Chinese? Well, those fingers might as well be stuck in their ears because assuming China is not working on green technology so that they can eat our shorts while we sing, "lalalalala" is amazingly short-sighted.

[Brisketexan 105478]

6 minutes ago, South Austin said:

I’m in the wrong line of work.

But.....

[Guest Lobo]

3 hours ago, 4th&Five said:

 

Would two sets of eyeglasses help your vapid cunt of a daughter?  Because one of her eyes looks like it's trying to escape the Huckabee gene pool.  

  I honestly don't know what you're worse at MIke---fatherhood, governing, or being alive.  

Edited January 31, 2021 by Lobo

[WhatTheBuck 28822]

Bill Maher’s always been a bit of a flake when it comes to sciency stuff. I recall him years ago saying he doesn’t trust milk. I also don’t think he’s handled the pandemic as well as other late night comedians. He seems to have taken the impact on his personal livelihood more personally. But yeah, I saw those wackadoos on his show and just skipped on by. The quality of his show really depends on the quality of his guests and sometimes he books some clunkers. 

Edited January 31, 2021 by WhatTheBuck

[Anastasis 23471]

2 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

I also don’t think he’s handled the pandemic as well as other late night comedians.

America. 

[DigglerontheHoof 21263]

17 hours ago, 4th&Five said:

 

Just tell the Huckabees they're feed bags, and they'll wear 4 at a time. 

[Francisco 2.0 32432]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/anti-vaxxers-wont-stop-harassing-tiffany-dover-nurse-theyre-convinced-is-dead-after-covid-shot?ref=home?ref=home

 

Quote

For weeks now, commenters have flooded Tennessee nurse Tiffany Dover’s Facebook wall with messages of tribute, praising her kindness and beauty and offering their condolences for her loss.

“Tiffany died a hero,” they wrote—and “RIP Angel.”

There are more than 22,000 comments on her last Facebook post, from people around the world—a collective grieving and outpouring of anger for the 30-year-old mother of two.

But Tiffany Dover is not dead.

 

 

Quote

According to all official sources, she is alive and well and working as a nurse at CHI Memorial Hospital in Chattanooga. Last week, she was pictured on the front of the local newspaper caring for a north Georgia police chief who had been in the hospital for nearly 100 days.

Dover is not the victim of some medical mishap, as her mourners allege, but of a massive global conspiracy theory that has united anti-vaxxersand COVID skeptics in a dangerous attempt to prove themselves right.

 

Quote

The outcry started in mid-December, when six staff members at CHI Memorial Hospital were selected to receive their first dose of Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine on live TV. Dover, a nurse manager at the hospital, was one of them. Speaking with reporters that day, she called the vaccine a symbol of hope, a light at the end of a very dark tunnel.

In the video, Dover can be seen getting the injection in her left arm, her deep-set blue eyes shining over the top of her surgical mask. A few minutes later, she stands to take questions from reporters, then stops and puts her hand to her head. She tells reporters she feels dizzy. Then she sinks slowly to her knees. Two other employees rush to her side to catch her before she hits the ground.

 

Spoiler

Minutes later, Dover is back on her feet, telling television cameras that she suffers from a medical condition that makes her prone to fainting. “I have a history of having an overactive vagal response, and so with that if I have pain from anything—hangnail or if I stub my toe—I can just pass out,” she said.

It was a dramatic moment with a simple explanation: a common and largely benign medical condition that affects some 20 percent of the population. But for vaccine skeptics, it was all they needed to construct a vast conspiracy—and incite a targeted harassment campaign that shows no signs of stopping.

It’s hard to pin down where, exactly, a conspiracy theory starts. It derives power from being seemingly everywhere at once, simultaneously unprovable and unimpeachable. But what we know about the Tiffany Dover conspiracy theory is this: Someone deceptively edited the video of her vaccination to make it look like she had died, leaving out the footage of her post-recovery interview. The video circulated on anti-vaxx Facebook pages and other social media accounts, accruing enough critical mass that by the time people got the facts, they weren’t interested in them at all. They were convinced a nurse had died, and they were going to get to the bottom of it.

In the days following the broadcast, commenters from around the world flooded CHI Memorial’s social media pages and even called the hospital, demanding proof that Dover was alive. Others sought out her friends and family, posting on their walls and Instagram pages demanding information. As evidence, they circulated screenshots of what they said was Dover’s death report on SearchQuarry.com—a website that will give an identical, similarly morbid result to anyone who enters their name.

By Dec. 19, the uproar was so intense that the hospital was forced to issue a tweet saying that Dover was “home and doing well” and asking for privacy for the nurse and her family. That tweet, too, was flooded with comments. “Send a picture of her with a newspaper of the day,” one wrote. “I want to see a video of her talking about it,” said another. (This according to screenshots taken at the time; the hospital's account has since been made private.)

With the conspiracy theorists only getting louder, on Dec. 21 the hospital took the extraordinary step of releasing what was essentially a proof-of-life video. The 20-second clip shows Dover standing on a staircase in the hospital, surrounded by other nurses holding signs with the day’s date and the hashtag “CHIMemorialStrong.” In a statement at the time, a hospital spokesperson said CHI was “aware of the multitude of false information circulating on social media about Tiffany Dover,” and had shot the video to “clear up many of the circulating rumors.”

Of course, it did nothing of the sort.

Six weeks and countless fact-checks and debunkings later, the Dover conspiracy continues to spread. On top of the comments on Dover’s Facebook post, there are more than 11,000 on her latest Instagram—the most recent of which were posted today. “Checking in again,” one user wrote recently. “I don’t think I’ll ever stop until we get an answer guys.” The comment has more than 200 likes.

Facebook has hidden many search results for her name, but a Daily Beast analysis found more than 400 posts about Dover currently available on the site—most of them containing false information. Hundreds more such posts are available on Twitter. At least two Facebook groups dedicated exclusively to the Dover conspiracy are still active, with thousands of members each. And comments about her pop up in others like "Fauci, Gates & Soros to prison worldwide Resistance” and "STOP The Great Reset”—a reference to another conspiracy theory about “global elites” using the pandemic to establish a totalitarian regime.

The groups serve as an echo chamber where users share vaccine misinformation, and an organizing space where they urge each other to “investigate” and spread the conspiracy further.

"It's starting to go viral, lets[sic] push it,” one user wrote recently in the “Justice for Tiffany Pontes Dover” group, which has nearly 3,000 members. “Post, tweet, share [this] link as a comment on public fb pages, mewe, youtube, news media, etc. The general public ‘just doesn't know.’”

Elisa Myzal, a spokesperson for the Chattanooga Police Department, told The Daily Beast the department’s social media had been flooded with comments about Dover, asking whether they were investigating her disappearance. (They are not, she confirmed, because there is nothing to investigate.) Just this week, the department received a call from a German radio host whose listeners apparently wanted more information.

The only thing Myzal could compare it to was a few years ago, when a rumor started circulating about young women getting abducted outside the local mall. At the time, the police department was able to confirm that they had received no such reports, and put out a statement to that effect. But the Dover situation left Myzal struggling for a response.

“The police department isn’t involved in this at all because there's no crime, no death, no nothing,” Myzal said. “So we don't really have a strategy or a response."

Personally, she added, “I just ignore them. You don't believe what you saw with your own eyes, so why are you going to believe me?"r

Dorit Reiss, a law professor at UC Hastings, also heard about Dover from a Facebook group—though not the conspiracy theory kind. Reiss is a pro-vaccine advocate, who spends her working hours writing about vaccination in the law and her leisure time fighting anti-vaxx social media posts. That was what she was doing when she stumbled upon a post about Dover.

To Reiss, the targeting of Dover and her family members crossed the line from conspiracy theory to harassment. She has previously counseled doctors and other clinicians who were hounded by anti-vaxxers, and sees it as a way to silence pro-vaccine views.

“If you are one person and you suddenly get hundreds or thousands of messages, some of them full of hate, it can be very traumatic,” she told The Daily Beast. “It can have a real deterrent effect on posting positive messages about the vaccine.”

It is hard to see the treatment of Dover and her family as anything but harassment. In the comments on her Facebook wall, people have suggested going to her house or workplace, tracking down her family members, and even searching out the parents of her children’s friends. “Why isn’t anyone that lives close to her figuring out where her kids go to school or where her husband works or where they live and waiting and trying to snap a picture of her coming or going?!?” one commenter recently asked. "Can someone living in Alabama just take a quick ride over to their place to see what’s going on?” another added. “Message me if you’re near Higdon."

When her brother-in-law shared an article debunking claims that Dover was dead, more than 260 people left angry comments. "How much money do they pay you all that you post this? She is dead and you know,” one person wrote. Under a similar post by her sister-in-law, which attracted nearly 900 comments, someone added: "your entire family is disgusting that you dont let Tiffany speak herself!"

The comments were somewhat ironic, given that the anti-vaxxers had been asking Dover's family members to comment on her wellbeing for days. But every time someone did so, the theorists upped the ante: First they needed to hear it from the hospital, then from the family, then from Dover herself. When her father-in-law posted that she was fine, and that the hospital had simply instructed them to let the lawyers handle things, the theorists turned his words against him: “Why does someone who’s healthy and safe need lawyers?" one wondered under his post.

In a comment under her own Instagram post, which included photos of Dover over the Christmas holiday, the nurse’s sister-in-law unleashed a rare display of frustration at having her every move scrutinized and flipped upside down:

“All of y’all stop acting like your entitled to know anything,” she added. “It’s none of your dang business. I’m honestly disgusted with people right now. We can’t even go on a family vacation for Christmas without being harassed. I’m sick of it. TIFFANY IS ALIVE AND FINE.”

Reiss has jumped into the comments section herself, often leaving messages in support of Dover and her family members. She has also written a blog post about the conspiracy and reached out to Dover’s family to offer her support. (She has not spoken with them directly.)

The vitriol directed at Dover and her family is nothing the law professor hasn’t seen before. She has counseled anti-vaxxer victims who were forced to hire lawyers and doctors who took on social media managers just to handle the onslaught. What has changed most during the pandemic, she said, is not anti-vaxxers’ behavior, but the number of people who are willing to listen to them.

“COVID has been a national trauma,” Reiss said. “More people are vulnerable, more people are looking for answers, more people are mistrustful of public health officials … and that makes more people vulnerable to conspiracy theories.”

She added: “Anyone can get trapped in an alternative reality conspiracy theory if they fall in the wrong moment.” 

More than 8,000 miles away from Reiss, Australian Michelle Millmann also spends much of her free time on Facebook. In and out of lockdown, with no job and no one to see besides her family, she spends up to 10 hours a day managing a Facebook group titled “Where is Tiffany Dover?”

The group has more than 5,000 members and averages 30 posts a day. Recent posts include a video edited to make it look like a nurse was vaccinated with an empty syringe, and another claiming Bill Gates had a body double get the vaccine in his place. (The video is titled: “EARGATE- THE GROWING MYSTERY OF BILL GATES EAR.”) Recently, when someone shared the photo of Dover caring for the police chief in the hospital, members insisted she had a body double, too.

Millmann insists she is not an anti-vaxxer, and that both she and her child are fully vaccinated. She says she was terrified of the virus at the beginning—making her husband and son change clothes every time they entered the house—but slowly started questioning its seriousness. (A quick browse of her Facebook “likes” shows she follows Tucker Carlson, Project Veritas founder James O’Keefe, and right-wing commentator Dan Bongino—all media figures who have downplayed the virus.)

That led Millmann to question pandemic-related restrictions, which led her to question the vaccine effort, which led her to Tiffany Dover. When she saw the video of the nurse fainting, she said, “it just really struck a chord with me.”

“I was terrified for her because I thought, ‘She’s got two little kids, she’s a mom, she’s gone to work one day to be a spokesperson for the Pfizer vaccine and then... nothing.’” she said. “In my heart, I believe something has happened to her.”

Millmann is convinced that she and her group members are doing a public service, and is furious that Facebook fact-checks or removes their posts. She also feels absolutely no guilt about spreading rumors that have led to harassment of Dover and her family. “Not at all,” she said when asked about it. “Why would I?”

In her interview, Reiss referenced the term “crank magnetism,” or the propensity for one conspiracy theory to make people vulnerable to others. And in a 30-minute conversation, Millmann rattled off an astounding number of them: that car accident victims were being recorded as COVID deaths, that Bill Gates gave seminars about a new world order; that the virus was created in a Wuhan lab. Her voice rose as she talked about the virus, the vaccine, the American presidential election. If America collapsed, she wanted to know, who was to stop China from invading Australia? What if this was all a plan for a global elite takeover?

She sounded, as Reiss suggested, vulnerable, distrustful, and desperate for answers.

“I'm not usually a conspiracy theorist, believe it or not,” she insisted. “But I don't know, with everything that's going on in America and around the world… you seriously have to be questioning what the hell is going on."

Asked whether these fears developed recently, since the pandemic started, she responded: "Absolutely.”

There was a belief, at the beginning of the pandemic, that the disruption and devastation caused by the virus would convince skeptics of the value of vaccines.

Instead, anti-vaxxer have made the global tragedy their veritable Super Bowl. The vaccine development process has given them a spotlight for their misinformation, and frustration over public health restrictions has created a new population of aggrieved potential converts. Meanwhile, the spread of other conspiracies like QAnon has undermined faith in institutions and loosened a swath of America’s grip on reality. 

According to the Center for Countering Digital Hate, anti-vaxx social media accounts gained more than 10 million followers over the last year.

“There is an identifiable counterforce trying to persuade people Covid isn’t dangerous, vaccines are dangerous, and that doctors and scientists cannot be trusted,” the group warned in its latest report. “We need to adapt or risk losing.”

Around the same time Dover got her shot, vaccine skeptics began claiming that a different, recently vaccinated nurse had been found dead in her home. Some posted messages they described as being from her family members; others identified her as Jennifer McClung, a 54-year-old nurse from Sheffield, Alabama, who had actually died of COVID-19 earlier that month. The state health department was forced to contact every hospital in the state that had administered the vaccine to refute the rumors.

The examples of this are endless. Anti-vaxxers claimed 24 people at a New York nursing home died after receiving the vaccines, neglecting to mention that a COVID outbreak had started at the home before the shots were administered. Others suggested baseball legend Hank Aaron’s death was tied to the vaccine he received earlier this month; the county medical examiner’s office confirmed he died of natural causes.

Dr. Saad Omer, director of the Yale Institute for Global Health, has spent years studying how anti-vaxx beliefs take hold and spread. Vaccine skepticism, he believes, is less an opinion people hold and more an identity they cling to. Like a sports fan or a science fiction nerd, he said, being an anti-vaxxer is “part of who you are.”

For someone who spends 10 hours a day managing a Facebook group about a single conspiracy theory, then, there is a dangerous need to validate the time you have invested. When a narrative is presented that shakes your sense of self—say, a non-sinister explanation for a nurse fainting after the vaccine—a new story needs to be created to restore the balance. 

“When opposition to vaccines becomes part of your identity, it’s difficult to dislodge these things,” he said.

For that reason, he added, it is best not to try to reason with anti-vaxxers at all.

“A lot of people who have concerns about the COVID-19 vaccines are people who are persuadable,” he said. “But it’s a folly and it's wasted effort to try to persuade people who keep on moving the goalposts.”

CHI Memorial hospital learned this the hard way. After multiple social media posts, too many incoming phone calls, and that creepy proof-of-life video, a somewhat frustrated-sounding CHI spokesperson responded to The Daily Beast’s request for comment by saying they would not be participating in this story. The hospital was “focus[ing] its attention on caring for COVID patients and administering the COVID-19 vaccine,” and Dover was “continu[ing] to focus on her job as a nurse manager caring for patients.”

“We are not continuing to do interviews to once again debunk a myth that has been debunked numerous times by multiple credible news sources,” the spokesperson said. The vaccine rollout would continue as planned.

 

 

[BrickHorn 18298]

16 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Bill Maher’s always been a bit of a flake when it comes to sciency stuff.

That is putting it very nicely. Maher is a fucking idiot and always has been. The fact that he often lands on the correct political side of things is sheer dumb luck.

[Francisco 2.0 32432]

https://www.npr.org/2021/01/25/960354929/in-tiny-kansas-town-pandemic-skeptics-abound-amid-false-information-and-politics?utm_source=nextdraft&utm_medium=email

 

 

 

Quote

Sixty-four years ago, residents of this tiny town in southwestern Kansas set a public health example by making it the first in the nation to be fully inoculated against polio.

It's a different story today.

People in Protection, like those in many rural communities, stand divided over how to slow the spread of the coronavirus and the safety of the vaccines being rolled out to protect them.

 

Quote

"A lot of people still believe it [COVID-19] is made up and that it's not as bad as the media is saying," says Steve Herd, a 72-year-old farmer who was in the third grade on the day that virtually every resident of Protection under age 40 got a polio shot.

Today, some in the town of about 400 people insist that the federal government "invented" the coronavirus so that it could force people to take a vaccine containing a microchip that could track their movements, Herd says.

In 1957, Herd says, "We didn't have people who believed such crazy stuff."

 

Spoiler

Protection's "Polio Protection Day" took place on April 2, 1957. Families, many dressed in their Sunday best, lined up in the high school gym to get shots from nurses dressed in starched white uniforms.

That event, sponsored by what was then known as the National Foundation for Infantile Paralysis (now the March of Dimes), received widespread media coverage.

The Herd family was front and center. Herd, his parents and four siblings were chosen to ride on the main float in a celebratory parade, he says, because they looked "average" and because his sister, Cheryl, had survived a bout with polio.

"Mom made us special shirts so we would look good for the occasion," he says.

Six decades later, the town's role in kicking off the polio vaccination campaign remains a point of pride memorialized by a small monument in front of the old post office.

"We were an example," Herd says, "of everybody coming together to try and do something good."

Stan Herd is two years younger than his brother, Steve. An artist renowned for distinctive crop and landscape works, he now lives in Lawrence, where the University of Kansas is located.

Recalling the event, he says there was no debate about the vaccine or the town's role in promoting it. Everyone thought: "This is what we're supposed to do."

Not today

Steve can't imagine the community coming together in a similar way in 2021.

"Not a chance," he says. "It would be impossible because we'd all take sides."

The political fault lines that have complicated national and state efforts to contain the coronavirus run deep in Protection and the surrounding Comanche County. Even with COVID-19 cases rising late last year, county commissioners refused to enforce Democratic Gov. Laura Kelly's statewide mask order.

"The big difference between 1957 and 2021 is that the polio vaccination event was apolitical. The COVID vaccine has gotten political," says David Webb, a retired teacher and unofficial local historian, who also participated in the mass vaccination event as a grade schooler.

The county has a population of just over 1,700 and has recorded 153 COVID-19 cases and nine deaths. Because of the timing of some of those deaths, the county recently appeared atop a national list of COVID-19 hot spots.

That, says Jerri McKnight, director of the Comanche County Health Department, wasn't accurate "because the data was pulled when we had three deaths in a one-week period."

Enough, she says, to temporarily skew the numbers in a county with such a small population.

The health department is getting a "good response" to a survey on its website that doubles as a vaccination sign-up sheet, McKnight says. But she's also getting lots of questions from people skeptical of the vaccine.

Some are worried about safety, given that it was developed so quickly.

"That's a big concern," she says.

A recent study by the Kaiser Family Foundation found that people living in rural areas are less willing to get the COVID-19 vaccine than those living in cities and suburbs.

Only 3 in 10 (31%) say they will "definitely get" the vaccine, compared with 4 in 10 people in urban and suburban areas.

McKnight is also hearing from people who believe one or more of conspiracies circulating about the vaccine, including the one about the tracking chip.

"Yeah, I hear that," she says.

People believe false information spread on social media, she says, because it comes from sources that many trust in a county that President Donald Trump carried with 82% of the vote.

"I hate to say that it got pulled in with politics," she says, "but it absolutely did."

 

[wildcat09 29447]

23 hours ago, Gap03 said:

Anyone else watch Bill Maher this week?  What the fuck is he thinking?

https://www.thedailybeast.com/bill-maher-pushes-bonkers-steve-bannon-wuhan-lab-covid-conspiracy

I watched the first 5 minutes of the interview and was like ...

 

Bill is going off the deep end it would seem.

Maher seriously thinks there's no other lab in the world doing infectious disease research? He's always been a fucking idiot but that's pretty stupid even for him.

[HenryJames 66228]

 

[HenryJames 66228]

 

[horncyclist 1391]

5 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

 

Nice. So pissed this shit wasn't happening months ago.

[Wanker Bob 379]

2 hours ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

https://www.npr.org/2021/01/25/960354929/in-tiny-kansas-town-pandemic-skeptics-abound-amid-false-information-and-politics?utm_source=nextdraft&utm_medium=email

 

 

 

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Protection's "Polio Protection Day" took place on April 2, 1957. Families, many dressed in their Sunday best, lined up in the high school gym to get shots from nurses dressed in starched white uniforms.

That event, sponsored by what was then known as the National Foundation for Infantile Paralysis (now the March of Dimes), received widespread media coverage.

The Herd family was front and center. Herd, his parents and four siblings were chosen to ride on the main float in a celebratory parade, he says, because they looked "average" and because his sister, Cheryl, had survived a bout with polio.

"Mom made us special shirts so we would look good for the occasion," he says.

Six decades later, the town's role in kicking off the polio vaccination campaign remains a point of pride memorialized by a small monument in front of the old post office.

"We were an example," Herd says, "of everybody coming together to try and do something good."

Stan Herd is two years younger than his brother, Steve. An artist renowned for distinctive crop and landscape works, he now lives in Lawrence, where the University of Kansas is located.

Recalling the event, he says there was no debate about the vaccine or the town's role in promoting it. Everyone thought: "This is what we're supposed to do."

Not today

Steve can't imagine the community coming together in a similar way in 2021.

"Not a chance," he says. "It would be impossible because we'd all take sides."

The political fault lines that have complicated national and state efforts to contain the coronavirus run deep in Protection and the surrounding Comanche County. Even with COVID-19 cases rising late last year, county commissioners refused to enforce Democratic Gov. Laura Kelly's statewide mask order.

"The big difference between 1957 and 2021 is that the polio vaccination event was apolitical. The COVID vaccine has gotten political," says David Webb, a retired teacher and unofficial local historian, who also participated in the mass vaccination event as a grade schooler.

The county has a population of just over 1,700 and has recorded 153 COVID-19 cases and nine deaths. Because of the timing of some of those deaths, the county recently appeared atop a national list of COVID-19 hot spots.

That, says Jerri McKnight, director of the Comanche County Health Department, wasn't accurate "because the data was pulled when we had three deaths in a one-week period."

Enough, she says, to temporarily skew the numbers in a county with such a small population.

The health department is getting a "good response" to a survey on its website that doubles as a vaccination sign-up sheet, McKnight says. But she's also getting lots of questions from people skeptical of the vaccine.

Some are worried about safety, given that it was developed so quickly.

"That's a big concern," she says.

A recent study by the Kaiser Family Foundation found that people living in rural areas are less willing to get the COVID-19 vaccine than those living in cities and suburbs.

Only 3 in 10 (31%) say they will "definitely get" the vaccine, compared with 4 in 10 people in urban and suburban areas.

McKnight is also hearing from people who believe one or more of conspiracies circulating about the vaccine, including the one about the tracking chip.

"Yeah, I hear that," she says.

People believe false information spread on social media, she says, because it comes from sources that many trust in a county that President Donald Trump carried with 82% of the vote.

"I hate to say that it got pulled in with politics," she says, "but it absolutely did."

 

Hey Cletus, that mini computer you and everyone else carry in their pockets everywhere is already broadcasting your location at all times. They don't need to microchip anything. 

[washparkhorn 9939]

Good circleback journalism exploring "the fainting nurse" hoax. That poor nurse and her family.

Also the story on the Kansas town who defeated polio but can't tackle Covid is so damn sad. How far this nation has fallen . . . 

[Neonmoon 38130]

2 hours ago, horncyclist said:

Nice. So pissed this shit wasn't happening months ago.

Seriously. Oh we have a vaccine that works? The next logical step is how can we make as much as humanely possible. Not, well, let’s just wait till Pfizer can produce enough with their facilities 

[Guest Lobo]

5 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

Good circleback journalism exploring "the fainting nurse" hoax. That poor nurse and her family.

Also the story on the Kansas town who defeated polio but can't tackle Covid is so damn sad. How far this nation has fallen . . . 

what was that story?  

[Satchel 6949]

From the suddenly woke Republican governor in West Virginia: 

Republican West Virginia Gov. Jim Justice called on Congress to go big in a next stimulus package, saying that trying to be "fiscally responsible at this point in time" was impractical — a surprising statement from the conservative as the state's moderate Democratic Sen. Joe Manchin has urged colleagues to rein in spending

In an interview with CNN, Justice, a Republican, argued it’s not the time for Congress to worry about being “fiscally responsible” with so many Americans struggling during the pandemic: "We can't hold back,” Justice said.

“If we actually throw away some money right now, so what?” Justice said, appearing to buck the interests of most members of his party who have argued against passing trillions more in spending. 

Justice’s comments come as Manchin threatens to derail passage of President Joe Biden’s $1.9 trillion stimulus package. 

Echoing GOP talking points, the West Virginia Democrat has called for more targeted stimulus checks and a lower price tag overall. 

Asked about Manchin’s preference for more targeted checks, Justice replied, "I don't really know exactly what the thinking could possibly be there. I mean, we got people that are really hurting

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackbrewster/2021/02/01/republican-gov-jim-justice-adds-pressure-on-manchin-to-pass-stimulus-not-the-time-to-be-fiscally-responsible/?sh=4fddce95f23d

[Js1 85651]

8 minutes ago, Satchel said:

From the suddenly woke Republican governor in West Virginia: 

Republican West Virginia Gov. Jim Justice called on Congress to go big in a next stimulus package, saying that trying to be "fiscally responsible at this point in time" was impractical — a surprising statement from the conservative as the state's moderate Democratic Sen. Joe Manchin has urged colleagues to rein in spending

In an interview with CNN, Justice, a Republican, argued it’s not the time for Congress to worry about being “fiscally responsible” with so many Americans struggling during the pandemic: "We can't hold back,” Justice said.

“If we actually throw away some money right now, so what?” Justice said, appearing to buck the interests of most members of his party who have argued against passing trillions more in spending. 

Justice’s comments come as Manchin threatens to derail passage of President Joe Biden’s $1.9 trillion stimulus package. 

Echoing GOP talking points, the West Virginia Democrat has called for more targeted stimulus checks and a lower price tag overall. 

Asked about Manchin’s preference for more targeted checks, Justice replied, "I don't really know exactly what the thinking could possibly be there. I mean, we got people that are really hurting

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackbrewster/2021/02/01/republican-gov-jim-justice-adds-pressure-on-manchin-to-pass-stimulus-not-the-time-to-be-fiscally-responsible/?sh=4fddce95f23d

Love to see it - Manchin is getting hit from the left (Harris going on TV in his state) and the right (his Republican governor). 

Just give in and agree to the bill, Manchin. 

[washparkhorn 9939]

31 minutes ago, Lobo said:

what was that story?  

Sorry. They are upstream and I should have linked them. 

The nurse was the one who fainted after receiving the vaccine early on. The anti-vaxxers claimed she died as a result and will not entertain the fact she might have survived the vaccine. 

Here they are (see following post). My bad.

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by washparkhorn

[washparkhorn 9939]

10 hours ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/anti-vaxxers-wont-stop-harassing-tiffany-dover-nurse-theyre-convinced-is-dead-after-covid-shot?ref=home?ref=home

 

 

 

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Minutes later, Dover is back on her feet, telling television cameras that she suffers from a medical condition that makes her prone to fainting. “I have a history of having an overactive vagal response, and so with that if I have pain from anything—hangnail or if I stub my toe—I can just pass out,” she said.

It was a dramatic moment with a simple explanation: a common and largely benign medical condition that affects some 20 percent of the population. But for vaccine skeptics, it was all they needed to construct a vast conspiracy—and incite a targeted harassment campaign that shows no signs of stopping.

It’s hard to pin down where, exactly, a conspiracy theory starts. It derives power from being seemingly everywhere at once, simultaneously unprovable and unimpeachable. But what we know about the Tiffany Dover conspiracy theory is this: Someone deceptively edited the video of her vaccination to make it look like she had died, leaving out the footage of her post-recovery interview. The video circulated on anti-vaxx Facebook pages and other social media accounts, accruing enough critical mass that by the time people got the facts, they weren’t interested in them at all. They were convinced a nurse had died, and they were going to get to the bottom of it.

In the days following the broadcast, commenters from around the world flooded CHI Memorial’s social media pages and even called the hospital, demanding proof that Dover was alive. Others sought out her friends and family, posting on their walls and Instagram pages demanding information. As evidence, they circulated screenshots of what they said was Dover’s death report on SearchQuarry.com—a website that will give an identical, similarly morbid result to anyone who enters their name.

By Dec. 19, the uproar was so intense that the hospital was forced to issue a tweet saying that Dover was “home and doing well” and asking for privacy for the nurse and her family. That tweet, too, was flooded with comments. “Send a picture of her with a newspaper of the day,” one wrote. “I want to see a video of her talking about it,” said another. (This according to screenshots taken at the time; the hospital's account has since been made private.)

With the conspiracy theorists only getting louder, on Dec. 21 the hospital took the extraordinary step of releasing what was essentially a proof-of-life video. The 20-second clip shows Dover standing on a staircase in the hospital, surrounded by other nurses holding signs with the day’s date and the hashtag “CHIMemorialStrong.” In a statement at the time, a hospital spokesperson said CHI was “aware of the multitude of false information circulating on social media about Tiffany Dover,” and had shot the video to “clear up many of the circulating rumors.”

Of course, it did nothing of the sort.

Six weeks and countless fact-checks and debunkings later, the Dover conspiracy continues to spread. On top of the comments on Dover’s Facebook post, there are more than 11,000 on her latest Instagram—the most recent of which were posted today. “Checking in again,” one user wrote recently. “I don’t think I’ll ever stop until we get an answer guys.” The comment has more than 200 likes.

Facebook has hidden many search results for her name, but a Daily Beast analysis found more than 400 posts about Dover currently available on the site—most of them containing false information. Hundreds more such posts are available on Twitter. At least two Facebook groups dedicated exclusively to the Dover conspiracy are still active, with thousands of members each. And comments about her pop up in others like "Fauci, Gates & Soros to prison worldwide Resistance” and "STOP The Great Reset”—a reference to another conspiracy theory about “global elites” using the pandemic to establish a totalitarian regime.

The groups serve as an echo chamber where users share vaccine misinformation, and an organizing space where they urge each other to “investigate” and spread the conspiracy further.

"It's starting to go viral, lets[sic] push it,” one user wrote recently in the “Justice for Tiffany Pontes Dover” group, which has nearly 3,000 members. “Post, tweet, share [this] link as a comment on public fb pages, mewe, youtube, news media, etc. The general public ‘just doesn't know.’”

Elisa Myzal, a spokesperson for the Chattanooga Police Department, told The Daily Beast the department’s social media had been flooded with comments about Dover, asking whether they were investigating her disappearance. (They are not, she confirmed, because there is nothing to investigate.) Just this week, the department received a call from a German radio host whose listeners apparently wanted more information.

The only thing Myzal could compare it to was a few years ago, when a rumor started circulating about young women getting abducted outside the local mall. At the time, the police department was able to confirm that they had received no such reports, and put out a statement to that effect. But the Dover situation left Myzal struggling for a response.

“The police department isn’t involved in this at all because there's no crime, no death, no nothing,” Myzal said. “So we don't really have a strategy or a response."

Personally, she added, “I just ignore them. You don't believe what you saw with your own eyes, so why are you going to believe me?"r

Dorit Reiss, a law professor at UC Hastings, also heard about Dover from a Facebook group—though not the conspiracy theory kind. Reiss is a pro-vaccine advocate, who spends her working hours writing about vaccination in the law and her leisure time fighting anti-vaxx social media posts. That was what she was doing when she stumbled upon a post about Dover.

To Reiss, the targeting of Dover and her family members crossed the line from conspiracy theory to harassment. She has previously counseled doctors and other clinicians who were hounded by anti-vaxxers, and sees it as a way to silence pro-vaccine views.

“If you are one person and you suddenly get hundreds or thousands of messages, some of them full of hate, it can be very traumatic,” she told The Daily Beast. “It can have a real deterrent effect on posting positive messages about the vaccine.”

It is hard to see the treatment of Dover and her family as anything but harassment. In the comments on her Facebook wall, people have suggested going to her house or workplace, tracking down her family members, and even searching out the parents of her children’s friends. “Why isn’t anyone that lives close to her figuring out where her kids go to school or where her husband works or where they live and waiting and trying to snap a picture of her coming or going?!?” one commenter recently asked. "Can someone living in Alabama just take a quick ride over to their place to see what’s going on?” another added. “Message me if you’re near Higdon."

When her brother-in-law shared an article debunking claims that Dover was dead, more than 260 people left angry comments. "How much money do they pay you all that you post this? She is dead and you know,” one person wrote. Under a similar post by her sister-in-law, which attracted nearly 900 comments, someone added: "your entire family is disgusting that you dont let Tiffany speak herself!"

The comments were somewhat ironic, given that the anti-vaxxers had been asking Dover's family members to comment on her wellbeing for days. But every time someone did so, the theorists upped the ante: First they needed to hear it from the hospital, then from the family, then from Dover herself. When her father-in-law posted that she was fine, and that the hospital had simply instructed them to let the lawyers handle things, the theorists turned his words against him: “Why does someone who’s healthy and safe need lawyers?" one wondered under his post.

In a comment under her own Instagram post, which included photos of Dover over the Christmas holiday, the nurse’s sister-in-law unleashed a rare display of frustration at having her every move scrutinized and flipped upside down:

“All of y’all stop acting like your entitled to know anything,” she added. “It’s none of your dang business. I’m honestly disgusted with people right now. We can’t even go on a family vacation for Christmas without being harassed. I’m sick of it. TIFFANY IS ALIVE AND FINE.”

Reiss has jumped into the comments section herself, often leaving messages in support of Dover and her family members. She has also written a blog post about the conspiracy and reached out to Dover’s family to offer her support. (She has not spoken with them directly.)

The vitriol directed at Dover and her family is nothing the law professor hasn’t seen before. She has counseled anti-vaxxer victims who were forced to hire lawyers and doctors who took on social media managers just to handle the onslaught. What has changed most during the pandemic, she said, is not anti-vaxxers’ behavior, but the number of people who are willing to listen to them.

“COVID has been a national trauma,” Reiss said. “More people are vulnerable, more people are looking for answers, more people are mistrustful of public health officials … and that makes more people vulnerable to conspiracy theories.”

She added: “Anyone can get trapped in an alternative reality conspiracy theory if they fall in the wrong moment.” 

More than 8,000 miles away from Reiss, Australian Michelle Millmann also spends much of her free time on Facebook. In and out of lockdown, with no job and no one to see besides her family, she spends up to 10 hours a day managing a Facebook group titled “Where is Tiffany Dover?”

The group has more than 5,000 members and averages 30 posts a day. Recent posts include a video edited to make it look like a nurse was vaccinated with an empty syringe, and another claiming Bill Gates had a body double get the vaccine in his place. (The video is titled: “EARGATE- THE GROWING MYSTERY OF BILL GATES EAR.”) Recently, when someone shared the photo of Dover caring for the police chief in the hospital, members insisted she had a body double, too.

Millmann insists she is not an anti-vaxxer, and that both she and her child are fully vaccinated. She says she was terrified of the virus at the beginning—making her husband and son change clothes every time they entered the house—but slowly started questioning its seriousness. (A quick browse of her Facebook “likes” shows she follows Tucker Carlson, Project Veritas founder James O’Keefe, and right-wing commentator Dan Bongino—all media figures who have downplayed the virus.)

That led Millmann to question pandemic-related restrictions, which led her to question the vaccine effort, which led her to Tiffany Dover. When she saw the video of the nurse fainting, she said, “it just really struck a chord with me.”

“I was terrified for her because I thought, ‘She’s got two little kids, she’s a mom, she’s gone to work one day to be a spokesperson for the Pfizer vaccine and then... nothing.’” she said. “In my heart, I believe something has happened to her.”

Millmann is convinced that she and her group members are doing a public service, and is furious that Facebook fact-checks or removes their posts. She also feels absolutely no guilt about spreading rumors that have led to harassment of Dover and her family. “Not at all,” she said when asked about it. “Why would I?”

In her interview, Reiss referenced the term “crank magnetism,” or the propensity for one conspiracy theory to make people vulnerable to others. And in a 30-minute conversation, Millmann rattled off an astounding number of them: that car accident victims were being recorded as COVID deaths, that Bill Gates gave seminars about a new world order; that the virus was created in a Wuhan lab. Her voice rose as she talked about the virus, the vaccine, the American presidential election. If America collapsed, she wanted to know, who was to stop China from invading Australia? What if this was all a plan for a global elite takeover?

She sounded, as Reiss suggested, vulnerable, distrustful, and desperate for answers.

“I'm not usually a conspiracy theorist, believe it or not,” she insisted. “But I don't know, with everything that's going on in America and around the world… you seriously have to be questioning what the hell is going on."

Asked whether these fears developed recently, since the pandemic started, she responded: "Absolutely.”

There was a belief, at the beginning of the pandemic, that the disruption and devastation caused by the virus would convince skeptics of the value of vaccines.

Instead, anti-vaxxer have made the global tragedy their veritable Super Bowl. The vaccine development process has given them a spotlight for their misinformation, and frustration over public health restrictions has created a new population of aggrieved potential converts. Meanwhile, the spread of other conspiracies like QAnon has undermined faith in institutions and loosened a swath of America’s grip on reality. 

According to the Center for Countering Digital Hate, anti-vaxx social media accounts gained more than 10 million followers over the last year.

“There is an identifiable counterforce trying to persuade people Covid isn’t dangerous, vaccines are dangerous, and that doctors and scientists cannot be trusted,” the group warned in its latest report. “We need to adapt or risk losing.”

Around the same time Dover got her shot, vaccine skeptics began claiming that a different, recently vaccinated nurse had been found dead in her home. Some posted messages they described as being from her family members; others identified her as Jennifer McClung, a 54-year-old nurse from Sheffield, Alabama, who had actually died of COVID-19 earlier that month. The state health department was forced to contact every hospital in the state that had administered the vaccine to refute the rumors.

The examples of this are endless. Anti-vaxxers claimed 24 people at a New York nursing home died after receiving the vaccines, neglecting to mention that a COVID outbreak had started at the home before the shots were administered. Others suggested baseball legend Hank Aaron’s death was tied to the vaccine he received earlier this month; the county medical examiner’s office confirmed he died of natural causes.

Dr. Saad Omer, director of the Yale Institute for Global Health, has spent years studying how anti-vaxx beliefs take hold and spread. Vaccine skepticism, he believes, is less an opinion people hold and more an identity they cling to. Like a sports fan or a science fiction nerd, he said, being an anti-vaxxer is “part of who you are.”

For someone who spends 10 hours a day managing a Facebook group about a single conspiracy theory, then, there is a dangerous need to validate the time you have invested. When a narrative is presented that shakes your sense of self—say, a non-sinister explanation for a nurse fainting after the vaccine—a new story needs to be created to restore the balance. 

“When opposition to vaccines becomes part of your identity, it’s difficult to dislodge these things,” he said.

For that reason, he added, it is best not to try to reason with anti-vaxxers at all.

“A lot of people who have concerns about the COVID-19 vaccines are people who are persuadable,” he said. “But it’s a folly and it's wasted effort to try to persuade people who keep on moving the goalposts.”

CHI Memorial hospital learned this the hard way. After multiple social media posts, too many incoming phone calls, and that creepy proof-of-life video, a somewhat frustrated-sounding CHI spokesperson responded to The Daily Beast’s request for comment by saying they would not be participating in this story. The hospital was “focus[ing] its attention on caring for COVID patients and administering the COVID-19 vaccine,” and Dover was “continu[ing] to focus on her job as a nurse manager caring for patients.”

“We are not continuing to do interviews to once again debunk a myth that has been debunked numerous times by multiple credible news sources,” the spokesperson said. The vaccine rollout would continue as planned.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

https://www.npr.org/2021/01/25/960354929/in-tiny-kansas-town-pandemic-skeptics-abound-amid-false-information-and-politics?utm_source=nextdraft&utm_medium=email

 

 

 

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Protection's "Polio Protection Day" took place on April 2, 1957. Families, many dressed in their Sunday best, lined up in the high school gym to get shots from nurses dressed in starched white uniforms.

That event, sponsored by what was then known as the National Foundation for Infantile Paralysis (now the March of Dimes), received widespread media coverage.

The Herd family was front and center. Herd, his parents and four siblings were chosen to ride on the main float in a celebratory parade, he says, because they looked "average" and because his sister, Cheryl, had survived a bout with polio.

"Mom made us special shirts so we would look good for the occasion," he says.

Six decades later, the town's role in kicking off the polio vaccination campaign remains a point of pride memorialized by a small monument in front of the old post office.

"We were an example," Herd says, "of everybody coming together to try and do something good."

Stan Herd is two years younger than his brother, Steve. An artist renowned for distinctive crop and landscape works, he now lives in Lawrence, where the University of Kansas is located.

Recalling the event, he says there was no debate about the vaccine or the town's role in promoting it. Everyone thought: "This is what we're supposed to do."

Not today

Steve can't imagine the community coming together in a similar way in 2021.

"Not a chance," he says. "It would be impossible because we'd all take sides."

The political fault lines that have complicated national and state efforts to contain the coronavirus run deep in Protection and the surrounding Comanche County. Even with COVID-19 cases rising late last year, county commissioners refused to enforce Democratic Gov. Laura Kelly's statewide mask order.

"The big difference between 1957 and 2021 is that the polio vaccination event was apolitical. The COVID vaccine has gotten political," says David Webb, a retired teacher and unofficial local historian, who also participated in the mass vaccination event as a grade schooler.

The county has a population of just over 1,700 and has recorded 153 COVID-19 cases and nine deaths. Because of the timing of some of those deaths, the county recently appeared atop a national list of COVID-19 hot spots.

That, says Jerri McKnight, director of the Comanche County Health Department, wasn't accurate "because the data was pulled when we had three deaths in a one-week period."

Enough, she says, to temporarily skew the numbers in a county with such a small population.

The health department is getting a "good response" to a survey on its website that doubles as a vaccination sign-up sheet, McKnight says. But she's also getting lots of questions from people skeptical of the vaccine.

Some are worried about safety, given that it was developed so quickly.

"That's a big concern," she says.

A recent study by the Kaiser Family Foundation found that people living in rural areas are less willing to get the COVID-19 vaccine than those living in cities and suburbs.

Only 3 in 10 (31%) say they will "definitely get" the vaccine, compared with 4 in 10 people in urban and suburban areas.

McKnight is also hearing from people who believe one or more of conspiracies circulating about the vaccine, including the one about the tracking chip.

"Yeah, I hear that," she says.

People believe false information spread on social media, she says, because it comes from sources that many trust in a county that President Donald Trump carried with 82% of the vote.

"I hate to say that it got pulled in with politics," she says, "but it absolutely did."

 

 

[elfenix 34364]

22 minutes ago, Satchel said:

From the suddenly woke Republican governor in West Virginia: 

Republican West Virginia Gov. Jim Justice called on Congress to go big in a next stimulus package, saying that trying to be "fiscally responsible at this point in time" was impractical — a surprising statement from the conservative as the state's moderate Democratic Sen. Joe Manchin has urged colleagues to rein in spending

In an interview with CNN, Justice, a Republican, argued it’s not the time for Congress to worry about being “fiscally responsible” with so many Americans struggling during the pandemic: "We can't hold back,” Justice said.

“If we actually throw away some money right now, so what?” Justice said, appearing to buck the interests of most members of his party who have argued against passing trillions more in spending. 

Justice’s comments come as Manchin threatens to derail passage of President Joe Biden’s $1.9 trillion stimulus package. 

Echoing GOP talking points, the West Virginia Democrat has called for more targeted stimulus checks and a lower price tag overall. 

Asked about Manchin’s preference for more targeted checks, Justice replied, "I don't really know exactly what the thinking could possibly be there. I mean, we got people that are really hurting

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackbrewster/2021/02/01/republican-gov-jim-justice-adds-pressure-on-manchin-to-pass-stimulus-not-the-time-to-be-fiscally-responsible/?sh=4fddce95f23d

i'm guessing  he's gotten a look at the state's budget. 

also, spending shit tons of money != fiscal irresponsibility.  pro-cyclical spending is fiscal irresponsibility.

[HenryJames 66228]

 

[Hookah Horns 3083]

13 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

Maher seriously thinks there's no other lab in the world doing infectious disease research? He's always been a fucking idiot but that's pretty stupid even for him.

I believe it's one of the very few max security labs outside the US that do gain-of-function experiments with lethal viruses. And it houses the largest collection of bat viruses. It's also located near the market to which the first cases were linked. 

It also just came out that workers there came down with covid-like illness in the fall of 2019, which the Chinese apparently tried to cover up. 

It could all be coincidence. But after initially scoffing at the idea of this coming from the lab, I'm keeping an open mind. 

This article is one of the best I've read on the topic. 

[Francisco 2.0 32432]

https://www.ozarksfirst.com/local-news/local-news-local-news/federal-attorney-holds-press-conference-to-announce-a-significant-criminal-matter/

 

Quote

An elected Missouri state representative and licensed assistant physician has been indicted by a federal grand jury for a fraud scheme. 

According to local prosecutors, Patricia “Tricia” Ashton Derges (R), 63, of Nixa, Missouri, made false claims about a supposed stem cell treatment marketed through her clinics. Derges was elected in November 2020 as a Missouri state representative in District 140.

Derges, who is not a physician but is licensed as an assistant physician, operates three Ozark Valley Medical Clinic locations in Springfield, Ozark, and Branson, Missouri.

 

Quote

Derges is charged in a 20-count indictment returned under seal by a federal grand jury in Springfield. 

“People who hold themselves out for public office and expect to be entrusted with the cares and concerns of the public, should expect to be held to a higher standard,” said U.S. Attorney Tim Garrison. “It’s simply about the fact that patients have a right to know whether the substance their healthcare provuder is injecting into their bodies are, in fact, what their healthcare providers tells them that they are.”

The indictment was unsealed on Monday, Feb.1, following Derges’ initial court appearance.

 

Quote

The investigation began as a result of false or misleading statements made by Derges in an April 2020 interview with Ozarks Tonight regarding her potential stem cells to treat COVID-19.

“She made herself a spectacle, of sorts, by making these really strong claims that she was a researcher in stem cell,” said Garrison. “That she had this research partnership with the University of Utah that caused some of the experts standing behind me to question whether or not that was really the case.”

Garrison explained Derges marketed her stem cell practice through seminars, media interviews, and social media. She told her audience that the amniotic fluid she used in her stem cell practice was a “stem cell shot” and that it contained “mesenchymal stem cells.”

 

Quote

“Her claims regarding her ability to treat COVID-19 were part of a broader pattern of misleading and deceiving patients and potential patients about treating them with stem cells,” said Garrison. “She was treating them with acellular amniotic fluid. Acellular, meaning fluid containing no cells, stem cells or any other type of cells.”

Derges’ attorney, Stacie Bilyeu, said Derges plead “not guilty” to all charges. 

“I think it’s real important for people to remember that she is presumed innocent until, and if, –that’s a big one– if proved guilty of those charges and that has not happened yet,” said Bilyeu. “She is presumed innocent. She is pleading not guilty to everything that the government has alleged.”

 The federal indictment charges Derges with eight counts of wire fraud related to five specific victims. These five victims were among those who lost a total of nearly $200,000 in the fraud scheme, which lasted from December 2018 to May 2020.

“Ms. Derges knowingly provided false information and made false claims about the medical treatment she was providing, and these falsehoods may have significant consequences for the patients she served,” said Curt L. Muller, Special Agent in Charge for the Office of Inspector General of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.

 

Here's her facebook post.  She fancies herself as David going up against Goliath:

https://www.facebook.com/tricia.derges/posts/10157932062401915

 

 

 

Edited February 2, 2021 by Francisco 2.0

[Guest Lobo]

$50 says her defense is "Q" told her to do it.  

[Hookah Horns 3083]

9 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

https://www.ozarksfirst.com/local-news/local-news-local-news/federal-attorney-holds-press-conference-to-announce-a-significant-criminal-matter/

 

 

 

 

 

Here's her facebook post.  She fancies herself as David going up against Goliath:

https://www.facebook.com/tricia.derges/posts/10157932062401915

 

 

 

Her attorney's statement isn't the strongest denial I've ever seen. 

I'd love to hear her explanation of how she thought she'd get away with this ruse. 

[Anastasis 23471]

Russian vax, similar to JNJ and Oxford approach. No moderate/severe disease observed 21 days post first dose.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00234-8/fulltext?

 

 

 

[Js1 85651]

2 hours ago, Hookah Horns said:

Her attorney's statement isn't the strongest denial I've ever seen. 

I'd love to hear her explanation of how she thought she'd get away with this ruse. 

Because she's a white woman in America? 

[BradInATX 9208]

Russian vax, similar to JNJ and Oxford approach. No moderate/severe disease observed 21 days post first dose.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00234-8/fulltext?
 
 
 

See, everyone was right about you being a Russian bot

[Anastasis 23471]

1 minute ago, BradInATX said:

See, everyone was right about you being a Russian bot

Putin's niece sent me the link. 

[LurkingHorn 1072]

23 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Russian vax, similar to JNJ and Oxford approach. No moderate/severe disease observed 21 days post first dose.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00234-8/fulltext?

 

 

 

Can we assume, based on this, that if J&J actually did a two-dose regiment that it would see similar results? 

[Red Five 41009]

Stick that Ruskie shit in my arm right now. They owe me for the last four years. 

[Anastasis 23471]

3 minutes ago, LurkingHorn said:

Can we assume, based on this, that if J&J actually did a two-dose regiment that it would see similar results? 

I don't think that we can make that assumption based on these data. So here's the wrinkle.  From what I understand the Rooskie vaccine uses a similar adenovirus vector for the first shot as JNJ, but instead of the second shot being the same, they use a different type of adenovirus vector for the second shot.  This gets around the vector immunity issue that could in theory reduce the effectiveness of a prime-boost regimen using the same vector for both shots. Another potential way around the vector immunity issue would be to mix and match the different vector vaccines, i.e. use JNJ as prime dose and Oxford (chimp adenovirus) as the boost dose. The rooskies are testing mixed regimens with the Oxford vaccine for exactly this reason...https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-russia-ukraine/russia-ready-to-trial-combined-astrazeneca-sputnik-v-vaccine-in-ukraine-idUSKBN2970JP

[LurkingHorn 1072]

20 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I don't think that we can make that assumption based on these data. So here's the wrinkle.  From what I understand the Rooskie vaccine uses a similar adenovirus vector for the first shot as JNJ, but instead of the second shot being the same, they use a different type of adenovirus vector for the second shot.  This gets around the vector immunity issue that could in theory reduce the effectiveness of a prime-boost regimen using the same vector for both shots. Another potential way around the vector immunity issue would be to mix and match the different vector vaccines, i.e. use JNJ as prime dose and Oxford (chimp adenovirus) as the boost dose. The rooskies are testing mixed regimens with the Oxford vaccine for exactly this reason...https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-russia-ukraine/russia-ready-to-trial-combined-astrazeneca-sputnik-v-vaccine-in-ukraine-idUSKBN2970JP

Interesting. Thanks for the explanation. Either way, it still seems like a 2nd dose is going to be needed for just about any vaccine to get to 90+% efficacy. 

[jimmyjazz 46351]

58 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Putin's niece sent me the link. 

Rules.

[Michael Knight 13008]

so like , this dystopia is getting weird

 

 

[Anastasis 23471]

On 1/26/2021 at 8:00 AM, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

why can’t the President enact the National Defense Act and have Pfizer, Moderna, (J&J shortly), share their “recipe” with every other pharmaceutical company in the US and get 500 million doses done in the next month or so.

More on this...

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2021/02/02/myths-of-vaccine-manufacturing

There are not “dozens of companies who stand ready” to produce vaccines and “end this pandemic”. It’s the same few big players you’ve already heard of, and they’re not sitting around and watching, either. To claim otherwise is a fantasy, and we’re better off with the facts.

[Captainant 27878]

7 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

More on this...

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2021/02/02/myths-of-vaccine-manufacturing

There are not “dozens of companies who stand ready” to produce vaccines and “end this pandemic”. It’s the same few big players you’ve already heard of, and they’re not sitting around and watching, either. To claim otherwise is a fantasy, and we’re better off with the facts.

FWIW, isn't the biden admin instead trying to streamline by contracting smaller pharma firms to bottle/package the vaccine and let the manufacturers just focus on pumping more out?

[Anastasis 23471]

Just now, Captainant said:

FWIW, isn't the biden admin instead trying to streamline by contracting smaller pharma firms to bottle/package the vaccine and let the manufacturers just focus on pumping more out?

Yeah, putting the shit in vials is an actual choke point. Passing the recipe around is apparently not. Overfill the vials and if you can repurpose other facilities to do the same. 

[Anastasis 23471]

More difficult data for the freezer defenders...

[Anastasis 23471]

6 hours ago, Michael Knight said:

so like , this dystopia is getting weird

 

 

What's really missing in this is the fact that the armored truck rolled up on the coup with fucking white walls. 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33901]

it's amazing what happens when our government tries. I wonder how many "needless" deaths there will have been when this is all over

 

Edited February 2, 2021 by Longhorn_Fan68

[Biff Tannen 45752]

1 hour ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

it's amazing what happens when our government tries. I wonder how many "needless" deaths there will have been when this is all over

 

No, I was told government is inefficient and shitty no matter who is in charge.  Guess it's just Republicans.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33901]

6 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

No, I was told government is inefficient and shitty no matter who is in charge.  Guess it's just Republicans.

That is certainly a self fulfilling prophecy

[BradInATX 9208]

What's really missing in this is the fact that the armored truck rolled up on the coup with fucking white walls. 

Just quoting this to ping you since you're our vaccine guy.

Have you seen any data on how well the first pfizer shot (without the second) protects against serious cases/hospitalizations/death?

[Anastasis 23471]

41 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Just quoting this to ping you since you're our vaccine guy.

Have you seen any data on how well the first pfizer shot (without the second) protects against serious cases/hospitalizations/death?

Are you sad that vaccines shouldn't be sitting in freezers?

 

 

[BradInATX 9208]

39 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Are you sad that vaccines shouldn't be sitting in freezers?

 

 

LOL don't be a douche. My mother in law wants to come visit us for her birthday in a week and see the new baby, but she has serious comorbidities. We're trying to decide what to do. We have a kid in daycare, so there's always some risk of him bringing an asymptomatic case home. She will have had her first Pfizer shot for about two weeks at the point she wants to come, trying to find data on it to figure out what her risk would be coming over here.

Edited February 3, 2021 by BradInATX

[Anastasis 23471]

Just now, BradInATX said:

LOL don't be a douche. My mother in law wants to come visit us for her birthday in a week and see the new baby, but she has serious comorbidities. We're trying to decide what to do. We have a kid in daycare, so there's always some risk of him bringing an asymptomatic case home.

Hey look.  If you don't want to adopt my take, ping the other posters that actually seem to know their shit. There are a few of them. None of them really rhyme with smondren smode.