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Mrs Whiggins

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28798

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Posted
5 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

Oooohhhh doggie.

Folks ain’t lying when they say that second Moderna shot can make you feel like crap.

100.1 fever (I normally run around 97.5 to 98), severe body aches and chills, and my nose is completely stopped up.

And I have to work the last day of the school vaccine clinic this morning.

Thank god it’s only a half day. I was going to go furniture shopping for my new bachelorette pad but fuck that. I’m coming home and going to bed.

Ughhhhhhh I feel like hammered ass crack.

I’m still jealous. 

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I'd just like to point out that neither myself nor any of my fellow nurses, fellow advanced nurse practitioners, and other healthcare providers ever swore an oath that we would lay down our lives for

Bama Chick
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Welp, it finally happened. I snapped in public today. I went into work for a bit this morning because I’m trying to figure out the safest way to host physicians we are recruiting given our CV-19 sit

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I don't really know what to say anymore tbh. What happened last night is hard to put into words for anyone who hasn't worked in a hospital healthcare setting. Just unreal. Everyone is getting fucked.

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Dark Horse

Dark Horse 2291

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15+ people in my office taken down this week, myself included.  A few are in the hospital, I'm asymptotic or pre-symptomatic.  I'm thinking it has to be the UK strain.  We haven't had more than one or two people test positive at a time since we (unnecessarily) returned to the office in August.  

 

It really sucks being incredibly cautious, and it not really mattering much in the end.  

 

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Neonmoon

Neonmoon 38130

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So I'm starting to think Florida is lying about their deaths. Just looking at population and death totals for the states. Most states with similar populations have similar death totals. There are a few outliers, like New Jersey has way more than it should, but being next to the densely populated NYC, it makes sense. The same goes for Connecticut being double what it should. Even NYC has more than it should because they were hit first, relied on ventilators which made it worse, and they screwed the nursing home decision, but Florida if fucking lying. 

 

 

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45733

Posted
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48 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

So I'm starting to think Florida is lying about their deaths. Just looking at population and death totals for the states. Most states with similar populations have similar death totals. There are a few outliers, like New Jersey has way more than it should, but being next to the densely populated NYC, it makes sense. The same goes for Connecticut being double what it should. Even NYC has more than it should because they were hit first, relied on ventilators which made it worse, and they screwed the nursing home decision, but Florida if fucking lying. 

 

 

No way.  Their governor totally seems like he's on the up and up.

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Wanker Bob

Wanker Bob 379

Posted
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55 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

So I'm starting to think Florida is lying about their deaths. Just looking at population and death totals for the states. Most states with similar populations have similar death totals. There are a few outliers, like New Jersey has way more than it should, but being next to the densely populated NYC, it makes sense. The same goes for Connecticut being double what it should. Even NYC has more than it should because they were hit first, relied on ventilators which made it worse, and they screwed the nursing home decision, but Florida if fucking lying. 

 

 

The state that fired their female statistician because she wouldn't falsify the numbers now falsifying the numbers?

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 46128

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, Dark Horse said:

15+ people in my office taken down this week, myself included.  A few are in the hospital, I'm asymptotic or pre-symptomatic.  I'm thinking it has to be the UK strain.  We haven't had more than one or two people test positive at a time since we (unnecessarily) returned to the office in August.  

 

It really sucks being incredibly cautious, and it not really mattering much in the end.  

Sorry to hear that.  I would question the characterization of being "incredibly cautious", given a pretty clear intra-office spread, but I assume that wasn't your call to go in to work.

That said, I get the vibe.  I feel like my family (6-8 under our roof any given night) has done a great job of avoiding the virus, and I completely believe it will all be for naught.  Somebody will bring it home, regardless of how cautious we are.

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23485

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20 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Somebody will bring it home, regardless of how cautious we are.

We've been pretty damn cautious for the last year, but I think that I am about to lose it.

I think my wife may have fucked us. I requested one fucking thing: don't go to stores and don't go see friends. That's it. Let me go to the stores. Let me take the risk because I can ramp up and be super OCD about this. 

Well she disobeyed and went to see two friends at their houses over the last 2 weeks and went to Walmart twice. Now she's had two days of feeling cold, sore throat, and overall feeling fatigued and muscle aches. 

I'm scared shitless. Don't feel anything different yet but seriously considering going today to buy a pistol and ammo so if this thing gets really bad for me I can kill myself before the worst symptoms of the pneumonia distress start. 

If I'm fortunate and don't get sick very badly I'm leaving her as soon as possible and filing for divorce. She showed she can't even put my or her own health and life ahead of her selfish desires to see her friends. That's unforgivable. 

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Dark Horse

Dark Horse 2291

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21 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Sorry to hear that.  I would question the characterization of being "incredibly cautious", given a pretty clear intra-office spread, but I assume that wasn't your call to go in to work.

That said, I get the vibe.  I feel like my family (6-8 under our roof any given night) has done a great job of avoiding the virus, and I completely believe it will all be for naught.  Somebody will bring it home, regardless of how cautious we are.

Yeah, I guess I could have quit my job since I'm independently wealthy.  

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Dnaguy

Dnaguy 12057

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, honolulu horn said:

The total number of COVID-19 deaths now stands at around 483,000 in the US. That's more than the populations of Miami, Raleigh, Omaha, or Colorado Springs. 

 

Yes well... that’s the pop of the cities...  and not the greater metropolitan areas.
Can you imagine if we had nothing?

We would be taking about Miami’s whole metro area pop. Like 5 million.

We’re at a tenth of that.

Sounds like a success to me.

/Trump logic

 

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honolulu horn

honolulu horn 6165

Posted
Posted
12 hours ago, Dnaguy said:

Yes well... that’s the pop of the cities...  and not the greater metropolitan areas.
Can you imagine if we had nothing?

We would be taking about Miami’s whole metro area pop. Like 5 million.

We’re at a tenth of that.

Sounds like a success to me.

/Trump logic

 

Yeah, I understand that the population numbers are uneven, based on metro vs city populations. I'm not really interested in digging up a bunch of different comparisons etc. I just use easily obtained city population data to make an easy to understand comparison, because sometimes these large numbers are hard to comprehend. Sounds like you agree that it's a totally unacceptable number, regardless of the comparisons we use. 

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honolulu horn

honolulu horn 6165

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, HenryJames said:

Fucking weather.

I really appreciate these updates, thanks. 

I also wonder how long the demand will be high enough for these numbers to stay as encouraging as they are. At some point we're going to start running out of smart people who are ready to get the shot pronto, and start delving into the fence-sitters. 

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Snake Diggity

Snake Diggity 4627

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7 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

So with all the power outages and people being thrown together in homes of family/friends, plus communal warming locations, we are bound to see another spike right? I mean that’s the classic spreader environment for this type of virus

I think that will be largely offset by people staying home.  Will be interesting to see.

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gmr548

gmr548 16614

Posted
Posted
So with all the power outages and people being thrown together in homes of family/friends, plus communal warming locations, we are bound to see another spike right? I mean that’s the classic spreader environment for this type of virus

I think that will be largely offset by people staying home.  Will be interesting to see.

The confirmed cases will almost certainly be low because there is probably some testing capacity offline from this that just isn’t going to come back. On net I’d think it does curb does relative to the state of things, say, last week. But it’s far from everyone being shut in at home.
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Anastasis

Anastasis 23485

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2 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

These tweets are really helpful, but it feels like they ignore the ~ 90M Americans who have already had the virus.  If that's as good as a vaccine, then we're probably closer to 7 months to herd immunity.

Mounting data suggests that one dose of PFE or MRNA vax is sufficient to get the antibodies in people that already had COVID to level achieved with 2 dose regimen in individuals who have not have COVID.  Related in a sense to the common observation that people that had COVID have more reactivity to the first dose, similar to what people that have not had COVID get with the second dose. It's more than just the reactivity data though, there are like 6 studies at this point looking at antibody titers. At an absolute minimum, if people are not wanting to count those people towards herd immunity numbers, we should take a look at deferring the second dose so that we can get more shots in arms of people that never had COVID. The british variant will be dominant strain by end of March, early April. We need to have as many people with shots in arms ASAP. 

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Aqua Buddha

Aqua Buddha 14608

Posted
Posted
20 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

These tweets are really helpful, but it feels like they ignore the ~ 90M Americans who have already had the virus.  If that's as good as a vaccine, then we're probably closer to 7 months to herd immunity.

Sure, numbers are down in the cold weather areas right now but they're down in FL and CA, too.  To your point, 90M prolly had it, throw in another 40M with shots, and that's a significant amount.  Gottlieb has been saying as much for a month now and that we're about to be ass deep in vaccines.  

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23485

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Y'all remember that exchange here about prioritizing first shots given the urgency of the pandemic, trusting the supply chain to ramp up within the flexibility window afforded for the second shots rather than holding substantial reserves, and the impact that JNJ's approval would have on freeing up 2nd shots downstream.  Yeah, well some data now on first dose effectiveness for PFE, which layers on top of similar data from the MRNA filling.  Can't wait for more both sides! quips. 

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2036242

Polack et al. (Dec. 31)1 report a vaccine efficacy of 94.8% against Covid-19 after two doses of the messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccine BNT162b2 (Pfizer–BioNTech). The authors also report a vaccine efficacy of 52.4% from after the first dose to before the second dose, but in their calculation, they included data that were collected during the first 2 weeks after the first dose, when immunity would have still been mounting.1 We used documents submitted to the Food and Drug Administration2 to derive the vaccine efficacy beginning from 2 weeks after the first dose to before the second dose (Table 1). Even before the second dose, BNT162b2 was highly efficacious, with a vaccine efficacy of 92.6%, a finding similar to the first-dose efficacy of 92.1% reported for the mRNA-1273 vaccine (Moderna).3

With such a highly protective first dose, the benefits derived from a scarce supply of vaccine could be maximized by deferring second doses until all priority group members are offered at least one dose. There may be uncertainty about the duration of protection with a single dose, but the administration of a second dose within 1 month after the first, as recommended, provides little added benefit in the short term, while high-risk persons who could have received a first dose with that vaccine supply are left completely unprotected. Given the current vaccine shortage, postponement of the second dose is a matter of national security that, if ignored, will certainly result in thousands of Covid-19–related hospitalizations and deaths this winter in the United States — hospitalizations and deaths that would have been prevented with a first dose of vaccine.

 

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LurkingHorn

LurkingHorn 1069

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2 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Y'all remember that exchange here about prioritizing first shots given the urgency of the pandemic, trusting the supply chain to ramp up within the flexibility window afforded for the second shots rather than holding substantial reserves, and the impact that JNJ's approval would have on freeing up 2nd shots downstream.  Yeah, well some data now on first dose effectiveness for PFE, which layers on top of similar data from the MRNA filling.  Can't wait for more both sides! quips. 

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2036242

Polack et al. (Dec. 31)1 report a vaccine efficacy of 94.8% against Covid-19 after two doses of the messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccine BNT162b2 (Pfizer–BioNTech). The authors also report a vaccine efficacy of 52.4% from after the first dose to before the second dose, but in their calculation, they included data that were collected during the first 2 weeks after the first dose, when immunity would have still been mounting.1 We used documents submitted to the Food and Drug Administration2 to derive the vaccine efficacy beginning from 2 weeks after the first dose to before the second dose (Table 1). Even before the second dose, BNT162b2 was highly efficacious, with a vaccine efficacy of 92.6%, a finding similar to the first-dose efficacy of 92.1% reported for the mRNA-1273 vaccine (Moderna).3

With such a highly protective first dose, the benefits derived from a scarce supply of vaccine could be maximized by deferring second doses until all priority group members are offered at least one dose. There may be uncertainty about the duration of protection with a single dose, but the administration of a second dose within 1 month after the first, as recommended, provides little added benefit in the short term, while high-risk persons who could have received a first dose with that vaccine supply are left completely unprotected. Given the current vaccine shortage, postponement of the second dose is a matter of national security that, if ignored, will certainly result in thousands of Covid-19–related hospitalizations and deaths this winter in the United States — hospitalizations and deaths that would have been prevented with a first dose of vaccine.

 

So do Pfizer and Moderna need to update their EUA to lower this to one dose? It really seems like, if this is true, the powers that be need to jump on this. 

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23485

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2 minutes ago, LurkingHorn said:

So do Pfizer and Moderna need to update their EUA to lower this to one dose? It really seems like, if this is true, the powers that be need to jump on this. 

No. That is not going to happen without a new trial. IMO, what this suggests is that we can be a little flexible with the timing of the second doses if necessary to manage supply chain or other disruptions and to get as many shots as possible in the arms of at risk people ASAP. There appears to be a good deal of protection afforded a few weeks after the first dose. This is really good news, and consistent with what was also seen in the MRNA study.   

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23485

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From NYT today: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/19/us/coronavirus-vaccines.html

Short of Vaccine, States Find Hidden Stashes in Their Own Backyards

Millions of doses of coronavirus vaccine are still sitting in freezers, allocated in excess to nursing homes or stockpiled for later use. Now states are claiming them.

An excerpt...

 

Quote

 

Federal officials estimate that as many as six million vaccine doses are still being unnecessarily stowed away. Freeing them up could increase the number of doses used by more than 10 percent — significantly stepping up the pace of the nation’s inoculation program at a time when speed is of the essence to save lives, curb disease and head off more contagious variants of the virus. So far, 56 million shots have been administered, and only 12 percent of Americans have received one or more doses.

The idea that doses are sitting in cold storage while millions of people languish on waiting lists has deeply frustrated government officials. The roots of the problem are twofold.

First, when the federal vaccination program for long-term-care facilities began late last year, the C.D.C. based allotments on the number of beds, even though occupancy rates are the lowest in years. According to the American Health Care Association, a trade group, only 68 percent of nursing home beds and 78 percent of assisted living beds are now filled.

Then the C.D.C. doubled that allotment to cover staff. But while four-fifths of long-term-care residents agreed to be vaccinated in the first month of the program, 63 percent of staff members refused, the agency reported. More have since agreed, although it is not clear exactly how many more.

Despite the lack of uptake, the pharmacy chains that administer the program continued tapping their allotments from the federal government. At one point in Virginia, Dr. Avula said, they had used fewer than one in every three doses they had on hand.

As “good, corporate, risk-averse companies,” Clark Mercer, the chief of staff to Gov. Ralph Northam of Virginia, said, “if they can draw down, they are going to draw down.”

Even more vaccine has been hoarded as second doses, federal and state officials say. Both authorized vaccines from Moderna and Pfizer-BioNTech require two doses, spaced three to four weeks apart.

The White House has been urging states not to squirrel away second doses ahead of time, and is providing three-week projections of supply as reassurance that they will not come up short.

“We believe that some health care providers are regularly holding back doses that are intended as first doses and instead keeping them in reserve for second doses,” Andy Slavitt, a White House adviser, said at the start of the month. “That does not need to happen and should not happen.”

But prying loose more second doses requires wary health care officials to have faith in a brand-new supply chain, said Dr. Marcus Plescia, the chief medical officer of the Association of State and Territorial Health Officials.

“There’s been this big push that we shouldn’t hold vaccine for second doses, we should just give it because there will be more,” he said. “But I think that’s asking a lot from vaccine providers, because their heart is in the place that they gave somebody a vaccine and they want to make sure when that person comes back for their second dose, it will be there.”

Some governors, including Mr. Cuomo, are insisting on a separate reserve for second doses.

“I am holding second doses that are for people who are scheduled for second doses,” Mr. Cuomo said in a recent interview. He added: If “I have your mother’s second dose earmarked and sitting on a shelf, I don’t consider that unused.”

In Virginia, the job of breaking through supply logjams has fallen to Dr. Avula. Mr. Northam plucked him from his job as health director for Richmond and the surrounding county on Jan. 6 to run the state’s vaccine program.

It was three weeks into the nation’s rollout, and Virginia was ranked near the bottom of states in shots delivered. Announcing Dr. Avula’s appointment, Mr. Northam warned hospitals, pharmacies and health care providers of consequences if they did not pick up the pace.

“You use it or you lose it,” he said. “I want you to empty those freezers and get shots in arms.”

Still, more than two weeks later, state data showed that Virginia was using only 45 percent of doses.

 

 

Edited by Anastasis
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Anastasis

Anastasis 23485

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15 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

 

 

The findings provide strong arguments in favor of delaying the second dose of the two-shot vaccine, as the U.K. has done. They could also have substantial implications on vaccine policy and distribution around the world, simplifying the logistics of distributing the vaccine.

A single shot of the vaccine is 85% effective in preventing symptomatic disease 15 to 28 days after being administered, according to a peer-reviewed study conducted by the Israeli government-owned Sheba Medical Center and published in the Lancet medical journal. Pfizer and BioNTech recommend that a second dose is administered 21 days after the first.

The finding is a vindication of the approach taken by the U.K. government to delay a second dose by up to 12 weeks so it could use limited supplies to deliver a single dose to more people, and could encourage others to follow suit. Almost one-third of the U.K.’s adult population has now received at least one vaccine shot. Other authorities in parts of Canada and Europe have prioritized an initial shot, hoping they will have enough doses for a booster when needed.

Preliminary data also suggest that the other widely used vaccine in the U.K. developed by AstraZeneca PLC and the University of Oxford could have a substantial effect after a first dose.

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23485

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France considering moving to one dose regimen for people previously infected with COVID.  Essentially the infection replaces the prime dose, and the vaccine becomes the boost dose.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/covid-vaccine-dose-immunity-france/2021/02/18/f719409e-714d-11eb-8651-6d3091eac63f_story.html

PARIS — France is weighing whether to give people previously infected with the coronavirus only one vaccine dose instead of two, a practice that if enacted here and followed by other countries could free up tens of millions of doses.

“It’s likely that we’ll see similar moves elsewhere, given that we’re facing a shortage of vaccine doses,” said Tobias Kurth, the director of the Institute of Public Health at Berlin’s Charité hospital.

France’s health advisory body has recommended that one shot provides sufficient protection, acting like a booster shot, for previously infected people.

“People who have already been infected retain an immunological memory,” the advisory body said in a release justifying its changed guidance.

The nonbinding guidance still needs to be approved by the French government, which usually follows the body’s recommendations, though it has been hesitant to deviate from standard practices in its coronavirus vaccination campaign.

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