CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk

[Biff Tannen 45675]

19 minutes ago, Red Five said:

I saw a doctor on tv (CNN?) a few days ago say that he wouldn't feel comfortable eating in a restaurant, even after being vaccinated. Now I'm no doctor, per se, but that seems wrong and incredibly irresponsible to say on national tv. 

I have a friend who is fully vaccinated, but refuses to go out of her apartment (which she has left only a handful of times in the past year) because she is afraid of the variants.  I tried to explain that variants are going to be a thing going forward, for the rest of time, but I think she secretly enjoys the drama.

[HenryJames 66041]

1 hour ago, Don Johnson said:

LOL.  Is this how they motivate us to get vaccinated?  By saying if we do, we can have small family gatherings by July?  What kind of motivation is that?  The message needs to be - get vaccinated, live life.  That's what it should be, and that's how you motivate people to get it.  If you haven't had it by July 4th, that's either a choice (and fuck you) or you're just unlucky and should continue avoid crowds.  But everyone else should do whatever the fuck they want to.

 

Under promise/over deliver. The CDC will have revised their guidelines multiple times before that date. 

[YChang 3443]

15 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

Under promise/over deliver. The CDC will have revised their guidelines multiple times before that date. 

It's like the idea of creating easy and achievable goals isn't a thing...

[Don Johnson 4753]

8 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

Under promise/over deliver. The CDC will have revised their guidelines multiple times before that date. 

I understand under promising, but the context of this statement was when he was basically begging the American people to get the vaccine.  Many of whom are on the fence.  And the reward for getting it sounded pretty shitty.   Honestly its kind of scary that he's saying if we all do our part, the reward is we can have small get togethers.  It reinforces the fears of those who believe there is a faction that doesn't want to us return to normal even after vaccinations.

"But I need you, the American people. I need you, I need every American, to do their part," Biden said. "I need you to get vaccinated when it's your turn and when you can find an opportunity. And to help your family, your friends, your neighbors get vaccinated as well."

 

 

[HenryJames 66041]

It could have been better messaging. 

[Red Five 40853]

"Look Jack, we'll all be licking motherfucking doorknobs like there's no tomorrow by July!"

[Js1 85311]

6 minutes ago, Red Five said:

"Look Jack FAT, we'll all be licking motherfucking doorknobs like there's no tomorrow by July!"

fify

[Okie State 3818]

I agree it's terrible messaging. I don't really understand why people get so worked up about shit like this though. Get the vaccine and do what you want. It's not like we'll have the Gestapo coming around enforcing gatherings. Or maybe we will...I'm wrong pretty often.

[WhatTheBuck 28776]

I became eligible yesterday. I bookmarked some websites and I’ll start looking into scheduling an appointment after the weekend. 

[NWBuck 8552]

2 hours ago, Don Johnson said:

LOL.  Is this how they motivate us to get vaccinated?  By saying if we do, we can have small family gatherings by July?  What kind of motivation is that? 

Seriously! I didn't want to gather with my family under normal circumstances, and now you're telling me I have to because hashtag Covid? Screw that noise...

#ThanksObamasSidekick

[F250 28767]

One of my direct reports in South America was vaccinated today with the Chinese vaccine. What was interesting was his expression of gratitude towards the government of China. I can't say that I have ever heard someone talk about China like that before.

 

I guess the Chinese good will tour they have been doing while we have been telling the rest of the world to fuck off is paying off.

Make America Great Again, indeed.

[LurkingHorn 1066]

I can agree the messaging has been poor from the administration and Fauci over the past few months vis-a-vis encouraging vaccinations, however, has the messaging really hurt the vaccination effort at this point? Last I saw the 7-day moving average was close to 2.5 million doses per day and I would bet we're topping out over 3 million per day in the near future. Are people thinking that would be higher at this point? 

Anecdotally, a lot of my network who was once hesitant about getting the vaccine are now actively searching to find it. I'm optimistic we're going to get there and we're going to actually be in a way better position than many EU countries by the beginning of Q2. 

[YChang 3443]

29 minutes ago, F250 said:

One of my direct reports in South America was vaccinated today with the Chinese vaccine. What was interesting was his expression of gratitude towards the government of China. I can't say that I have ever heard someone talk about China like that before.

 

I guess the Chinese good will tour they have been doing while we have been telling the rest of the world to fuck off is paying off.

Make America Great Again, indeed.

Russians and Chinese aren’t stupid... master manipulators 

[4th&Five 41525]

Every time we get cocky with this thing we have massive surges that take us back to zero.  They're trying not to do that when we may actually be close to the end of this.  They can always ease up the language later but as we've seen most Americans won't go backwards with restrictions.

[F250 28767]

39 minutes ago, LurkingHorn said:

Anecdotally, a lot of my network who was once hesitant about getting the vaccine are now actively searching to find it. I'm optimistic we're going to get there and we're going to actually be in a way better position than many EU countries by the beginning of Q2. 

I wonder if we are seeing the toilet paper effect with the vaccine. It's hard to get and a lot of people are rushing to get it so our lizard brain kicks in thinking "I better get one too."

 

[Eastwood 4394]

I wonder if we are seeing the toilet paper effect with the vaccine. It's hard to get and a lot of people are rushing to get it so our lizard brain kicks in thinking "I better get one too."
 

Nope. Can't hoard vaccine. Also, just because you can't get it immediately on the HEB website doesn't mean you can't get it at all. You're actually competing with the same bot programs that are used to scrape the internet for video cards and the new video game consoles. That's why a lot of the appointments are going so fast. But if you dedicate about 30 minutes to the HEB vaccine website, you absolutely will get an appointment. You'll just have to drive for it. My wife got her shot yesterday, she just had to drive 2 hours to get it. Small price to pay, especially if you're 1B like she is.

[Eastwood 4394]

And just after I type that, 29 spots opened up for the Cypress Market HEB. It happens several times a day, just gotta grind the F5 key to get one.

[F250 28767]

16 minutes ago, YChang said:

Russians and Chinese aren’t stupid... master manipulators 

I'd say that the Russians are pretty stupid compared to the Chinese. The Russians might have interfered in our affairs but it was the Chinese that really took advantage of all our mistakes on the world stage. The Chinese thrived thanks to the Russians but at least we don't share a border with the rising superpower like the Russians do.

 

[kevwun 15774]

8 minutes ago, Eastwood said:

And just after I type that, 29 spots opened up for the Cypress Market HEB. It happens several times a day, just gotta grind the F5 key to get one.

Yeah if you are willing to drive 2 or 3 hours, you can get one from HEB with an 1-2 hours of F5'ing.

Edited March 12, 2021 by kevwun

[F250 28767]

3 minutes ago, Eastwood said:

8 minutes ago, F250 said:

I wonder if we are seeing the toilet paper effect with the vaccine. It's hard to get and a lot of people are rushing to get it so our lizard brain kicks in thinking "I better get one too."
 

Nope. Can't hoard vaccine. Also, just because you can't get it immediately on the HEB website doesn't mean you can't get it at all. You're actually competing with the same bot programs that are used to scrape the internet for video cards and the new video game consoles. That's why a lot of the appointments are going so fast. But if you dedicate about 30 minutes to the HEB vaccine website, you absolutely will get an appointment. You'll just have to drive for it. My wife got her shot yesterday, she just had to drive 2 hours to get it. Small price to pay, especially if you're 1B like she is.

Maybe I should have used the Tickle Me Elmo or whatever must have Xmas toy as an example. I didn't mean to imply it was the desire to hoard but there is something that motivates the masses to seek out something that isn't easy to acquire when everyone else is trying to get it at the same time.

The fact that bots are being used as if it's a ticket to the Rolling Stones farewell tour means it's not easily acquired. It's not impossible to get but there is certainly a hustle involved. That perception of scarcity is a big driver for people.

[Eastwood 4394]

Maybe I should have used the Tickle Me Elmo or whatever must have Xmas toy as an example. I didn't mean to imply it was the desire to hoard but there is something that motivates the masses to seek out something that isn't easy to acquire when everyone else is trying to get it at the same time.
The fact that bots are being used as if it's a ticket to the Rolling Stones farewell tour means it's not easily acquired. It's not impossible to get but there is certainly a hustle involved. That perception of scarcity is a big driver for people.

Well, people aren't showing up for the Rolling Stones tickets. The HEB my wife was at was saying that they have to solicit people in the store at the end of the day to get one so they don't have to throw out the vaccines for the no-shows. I'm actually going to test this theory out today at my HEB.

[ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2663]

4 minutes ago, Eastwood said:

10 minutes ago, F250 said:

Maybe I should have used the Tickle Me Elmo or whatever must have Xmas toy as an example. I didn't mean to imply it was the desire to hoard but there is something that motivates the masses to seek out something that isn't easy to acquire when everyone else is trying to get it at the same time.
The fact that bots are being used as if it's a ticket to the Rolling Stones farewell tour means it's not easily acquired. It's not impossible to get but there is certainly a hustle involved. That perception of scarcity is a big driver for people.

Well, people aren't showing up for the Rolling Stones tickets. The HEB my wife was at was saying that they have to solicit people in the store at the end of the day to get one so they don't have to throw out the vaccines for the no-shows. I'm actually going to test this theory out today at my HEB.

When I got my first shot at HEB, which was damned lucky to find in Austin, there were only a few people in the time slot and the girl ahead of me had to change her mind because *derp* "I has a work trip scheduled and I didn't know when the follow up shot would be"  so she was begging the pharmacist to reschedule her 2nd shot or make it be in Houston where she would be. He's like nah doesn't work that way, so she declined her shot, which went into an employee's arm. 

[kevwun 15774]

I booked 2 friends for HEB shots today and am about cross-eyed.  Pretty sure I know where every HEB in the state is now.

[washparkhorn 9939]

1 minute ago, F250 said:

Maybe I should have used the Tickle Me Elmo or whatever must have Xmas toy as an example. . . . There is something that motivates the masses to seek out something that isn't easy to acquire when everyone else is trying to get it at the same time.

Agree - it is interesting to watch.  Scarcity breeds desire.

The idea that there may be events only available to the vaccinated may be spurring some of it as well. No one wants to be left out. And for the bad ass outlaws in their own minds out there, the Sooner thrill of jumping the line and getting the vaccine before their turn reinforces their lawless self-image. 

That may not a bad thing for Texans in terms of the epidemic  - especially compared to where they were a few months ago when the vaccines rolled out and when the Plandemic Hoax made it into trumper land. 

Still waiting for the vaccine out here (there are rules in a society). Very happy to see my homestate vaccinating. Get the shots in arms so the non-mask wearing freaks can get on with getting on. 

 

[HenryJames 66041]

 

[HenryJames 66041]

 

[Ten Bears 2481]

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=3700a84845c5470cb0dc3ddace5c376b

Use the map, man.  There are doses out there.

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

22 hours ago, cactusflinthead said:

A truly surly post

 

Between the possible side effects of the vaccine combined with the allsups someone should tweet that guy the shart thread.

[Bama Chick 28596]

Get ready for another Ken Paxton lawsuit!

[Tuco 5076]

PSA: My daughter got her first dose today at the fairgrounds super site. It was crowded, but fast. She has no health issues, is 22, and handled Covid with light symptoms 3 months ago. If she can get one, any of you old fucks can. Sign the fuck Dallas area Texans. Get safe.

[David Dennison 18854]

8 minutes ago, Tuco said:

PSA: My daughter got her first dose today at the fairgrounds super site. It was crowded, but fast. She has no health issues, is 22, and handled Covid with light symptoms 3 months ago. If she can get one, any of you old fucks can. Sign the fuck Dallas area Texans. Get safe.

If you make an appointment, you'll get a shot. 

[HenryJames 66041]

 

[Neonmoon 38129]

Holy shit that’s huge 

[HenryJames 66041]

 

[Anastasis 23469]

who gives a fuck about nerds and excel sheets. 

shot in arms.

we seem to be doing well on that metric.

 

[cactusflinthead 27598]

 

[cactusflinthead 27598]

 

[HenryJames 66041]

 

[Js1 85311]

19 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

Holy shit that’s huge 

Phrasing?

[cactusflinthead 27598]

 

[Francisco 2.0 32389]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Francisco 2.0 32389]

Color me surprised that the legislators in the State of Kansas didn't actually fall for this:

 

https://kansasreflector.com/2021/03/14/kobach-teamed-up-with-wichita-businessman-to-sell-covid-killing-device-an-investigation-found-no-merit-to-their-claims/

 

Quote

In early October, Kris Kobach, Kansas’ former Secretary of State, and Daniel Drake, a Wichita-based venture capitalist-turned-CEO, made a sales pitch to Kansas legislators. The duo wheeled in what looked to lawmakers like a “refrigerator” — a shiny metal box Drake called a “revolutionary” device that would “kill COVID” and bring “several hundred jobs back to Wichita.”

“This stuff is very cutting-edge,” Kobach said. The local development of such exciting technology was why, he told lawmakers, he wanted Kansas to get the “first bite at the apple.”

 

Quote

During their pitch, Drake explained that his company, MoJack Distributors, had developed a line called “Scent Crusher” that uses aerosolized ozone, a tri-oxygen molecule, to sanitize hunting and sports products, “only to realize that we weren’t here today to be able to get hunters or sportsmen to be better athletes or better hunters, but to kill COVID.” He told lawmakers the sample product next to him was part of a new line called “Sarus Systems.”

The former, controversial secretary of state and his new business partner made sweeping claims before the Legislature about the efficacy of Sarus System’s products, but experts say the claims were misleading. After a two-month investigation, Columbia Journalism School was unable to verify the vast majority of their statements.

 

Quote

There is no evidence Sarus Systems has made material steps toward rehoming hundreds of jobs to Kansas, and shipping records show products are currently being manufactured in China. There is also scant evidence their machines, or ozone in general, can safely eliminate SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. And while the pair have hyped the products’ popularity, claiming a three-month backlog and international interest, we were unable to verify any purchases — from the state of Kansas or otherwise.

 

Spoiler

Sarus Systems’ products are designed to be easy to use: The user fills a water tank, drops in one “optimizing agent” tablet containing ozone, turns the machine on, leaves the room and waits as a vapor disinfects everything from personal protective equipment to entire rooms — in just 90 minutes. When first interviewed in October, Drake said his product was superior to commonly used household cleaners certified by the Environmental Protection Agency because “our product actually kills COVID, SARS-CoV-2, everywhere, everywhere, it can touch. So it kills the underneath of the desk, top of the desk, the underneath of the chair, the air in the room, the cracks and crevices in the keyboards. It does a hundred percent super deep clean job that even a human couldn’t do.”

As proof, he pointed to a third-party lab test on the Sarus Systems website done by MRIGlobal, a research institute based in Kansas City, Missouri.The study is heavily redacted and sports a red “CONFIDENTIAL” stamp on the first page. Even the name “Sarus Systems” and its product were redacted — though both Drake and Kobach have publicly said the company paid for the test. The duo gave the Kansas Legislature an unredacted copy of the study, which was obtained by Columbia Journalism School.

MRIGlobal tests products for clients under criteria defined by the clients themselves, according to those familiar with the lab’s work. The study was not designed to prove that these products effectively “kill COVID” in real-world environments, as Drake and Kobach have claimed. In fact, the unredacted version shows the products were tested in extremely controlled rooms and that “stainless steel coupons” — small pieces of stainless steel exposed to the virus — were tested for sanitization. 

Experts who reviewed the unredacted study were unconvinced by the results.

“Ideally, this study would be one small part of a much longer, more complicated investigation, but the surfaces, materials, or ventilation of a typical hospital room or clinical work area are not replicated here,” said UCLA Emergency Medicine physician Mark Morocco. “I doubt that any health care entity would consider such a limited study sufficient to consider utilizing such a system (as Sarus’).” 

In other words, the study makes no suggestion that the product would be effective on porous surfaces, such as a desk or a chair, as Drake claimed. 

The study claims that ozone can sanitize the room at a rate of 99.8% — a figure too low to kill the virus under EPA standards. The study failed to address the health risks of ozone, which, according to the EPA, include lung damage, throat irritation and other respiratory ailments. The EPA considers ozone generators pesticidal devices, and as such, they have not reviewed the safety or efficacy of such products as a means for SARS-CoV-2 sanitization. 

On its webpage “Ozone Generators That Are Sold as Air Cleaners,” the EPA recommends — with italicized emphasis — that consumers use “proven methods of controlling air pollution. These methods include eliminating or controlling pollutant sources, increasing outdoor air ventilation and using proven methods of air cleaning.” They do not recommend the use of ozone for these purposes. 

Originally, Sarus Systems’ website indicated it was “an establishment registered with the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.” But the agency confirmed it had not reviewed the products and was not certifying any ozone technology for COVID-19 response.

After being presented with a detailed set of questions related to the company’s claims about the EPA, the website was changed. It now reads, “Sarus Systems designs and distributes products produced by manufacturers registered with the Environmental Protection Agency.” Drake did not explain the change in his statement, saying he stood by his claims and did not feel the company had been misleading.

Drake’s existing ozone line, distributed under the name Scent Crusher, “effectively eliminates odors” on hunting gear. Sarus Systems’ products, which include sanitizing totes, chests, closets and room sanitizers for commercial and residential use, work similarly. However, while Scent Crusher’s products cost, at the most, $349.99, Sarus’ cost up to $15,000, according to a presentation Kobach and Drake made to the Jackson County Board of County Commissioners on Sept. 14. 

Drake would not offer specific details on the difference between the two lines in order to explain the cost difference, only saying in a statement that Sarus Systems’ products “utilize several extra processes to further atomize and accelerate the ability to eliminate virus in a larger everyday setting.”

Kobach joined Sarus Systems following his loss for the Republican senate nomination to now-Sen. Roger Marshall last summer. He said he was “intrigued” by Drake’s pitch for a product that would, in Drake’s words, “kill COVID.” In an interview, Kobach described his role as “providing assistance for Dan in terms of pointing out where to go … navigating government contracting and decision-making in allocating resources at the state level in the post-COVID world.”

Kobach has a fraught history in Kansas. Before his failed Senate bid, he unsuccessfully ran for governor while serving as secretary of state. As secretary, he caused intense controversy by pushing harsh voter integrity measures, including a requirement that voters show documented proof of citizenship. That law was overturned in federal court in 2018. Kansas’ recent attempt to revive the law by appealing to the U.S. Supreme Court was unsuccessful. 

Drake claims he had the idea to modify his Scent Crusher products for SARS-CoV-2 disinfection last January, when he was working with the Los Angeles Emergency Management Department.

“They were using our prototypes on another product,” he said in an interview. “And they called me and asked, ‘Hey, would your system kill COVID?’ Probably,” Drake said.

But Ellen Linaac, the department’s administrative and finance division chief, said they had no record of ever working with Drake. In fact, the department outsources all of its PPE cleaning to Coastal Environmental Services in Huntington Beach, Linaac said. A Coastal Environmental Services spokesperson said the company has no relationship with Drake. 

Drake would not say who in the department he’d spoken to. In a statement, he said “there are thousands of people in the emergency network of LA” and mentioned, without offering more specificity, a “test site” in which unnamed emergency management employees offered him encouragement.

While Kobach claimed before legislators that Sarus Systems had a three-month backorder, and Drake claimed in interviews that the Minister of Health in Brazil, the Minister of Tourism in the Dominican Republic, and the corporate owners of Marriott Hotels had expressed interest, none of the reported buyers returned calls for comment. Moreover, though the duo presented the product at two local Kansas sheriff’s offices, in Jackson and Shawnee counties, neither office confirmed its interest. When asked to confirm purchases, Drake said “we do not comment on specific interest or orders for our products,” despite having named alleged customers in previous interviews.

There is also no public evidence that Sarus Systems is “close” to bringing any jobs to Kansas, as Drake claimed to legislators in September.

“We’re based in Wichita,” Drake said in an October interview. “We’ve got a plan in place to replace our manufacturing (in China) with sub-assembly stuff here. (Kansas is) taking out-of-work aircraft workers and access capacity in the aircraft manufacturing business to create these products. So, I think (Sarus Systems) can shift those back this way. … We’re running through a host of local manufacturers with a combination of some state opportunities to do that here in Kansas.”

Shang-Jin Wei, professor of Chinese business and economy at Columbia Business School, said this plan would not be cost-effective. Given how much cheaper low-skilled labor is in China, the “only practical” way to move hundreds of jobs to Kansas would be to relocate only the technology-intensive side of production to the United States — with the extensive aid of government incentives. Wei said the government is unlikely to provide these incentives while unemployment remains at its current low levels. 

COVID-19 itself would also likely prevent the plan. Even though COVID-19 has temporarily created a high unemployment rate, Wei said, the new factory wouldn’t be much help as most factories have had to reduce production to prevent the spread.

“Once COVID is gone,” Wei said, “presumably all the factories already in the states will resume their normal production, mak(ing) it less obvious for the local government to subsidize a potential production like this.”

 Closing out the meeting with Kansas legislators eager to break for lunch, Drake requested to make one final point.

“We are close to bringing several hundred jobs back to Wichita,” he said. “So even though we’ve produced a lot of this in Asia, this is meant to be done right here.”

Drake would not offer more specifics about his plan to bring jobs to Kansas, only saying that he’s “spent time” working on a manufacturing plan, and that “selecting good manufacturing sites with the proper workforce” is “a process.”

 

[washparkhorn 9939]

18 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

In early October, Kris Kobach, Kansas’ former Secretary of State, and Daniel Drake, a Wichita-based venture capitalist-turned-CEO, made a sales pitch to Kansas legislators. The duo wheeled in what looked to lawmakers like a “refrigerator” — a shiny metal box Drake called a “revolutionary” device that would “kill COVID” and bring “several hundred jobs back to Wichita.”

Kris Kobach is a repugnant grifter. 

[WhatTheBuck 28776]

8 hours ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

In early October, Kris Kobach, Kansas’ former Secretary of State, and Daniel Drake, a Wichita-based venture capitalist-turned-CEO, made a sales pitch to Kansas legislators. The duo wheeled in what looked to lawmakers like a “refrigerator” — a shiny metal box Drake called a “revolutionary” device that would “kill COVID” and bring “several hundred jobs back to Wichita.”

“This stuff is very cutting-edge,” Kobach said. The local development of such exciting technology was why, he told lawmakers, he wanted Kansas to get the “first bite at the apple.”

And yet it couldn’t detect any significant evidence of actual voter fraud.

[Bama Chick 28596]

It’s 5:20 AM and I’m at a plant for an on-site vaccination clinic.

We’ll be here 14 hours. Scheduled to vaccinate 642 people.

I have 36 more such events on my calendar over the next 12 weeks.

I’m tired but it feels good, man.

[956 Worldwide 34705]

Not a political post, but a thank you to @Bama Chick and anyone else reading involved in the creation or administration of this vaccine.  I live overseas and the past month or so, watching the U.S. spring into action (albeit with some bumps) and begin kicking ass at getting our huge continent spanning nation vaccinated has been inspiring.  A feeling that we can finally get shit done again, like the America I grew up believing again.  It's not limited to just me, plenty of foreigners are feeling like the U.S. is getting its groove back.

Russia and China will make some hay by viewing their shots as a foreign policy tool first and a public health at home tool second, but in the long run I think people understand and admire the fact that the big democracies are taking care of their citizens. 

[El Diablo 4232]

I drop in here rarely and it's usually with questions as I don't follow CR topics. So with that said, what's the cost of the various vaccines (however you want to measure that) and who is paying Moderna/Pfizer/J&J for there efforts? A followup, what is the "final" cost expected to be? Put final in quotes because I realize this may go on for years so maybe limit time frame to this time next year? I dunno, just dumb questions. 

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

Shocked, shocked I tell you....

 

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

13 minutes ago, El Diablo said:

 who is paying Moderna/Pfizer/J&J for there their efforts?

For this question, it is the federal government paying for the vaccines so we all are so to speak. Others may be able to answer more specifically, and HCP may charge a fee for the administration of the shot, but it is my understanding that we, the people, are ultimately the foundation upon which public health rests.

[Tuco 5076]

12 hours ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

Color me surprised that the legislators in the State of Kansas didn't actually fall for this:

 

https://kansasreflector.com/2021/03/14/kobach-teamed-up-with-wichita-businessman-to-sell-covid-killing-device-an-investigation-found-no-merit-to-their-claims/

 

 

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Sarus Systems’ products are designed to be easy to use: The user fills a water tank, drops in one “optimizing agent” tablet containing ozone, turns the machine on, leaves the room and waits as a vapor disinfects everything from personal protective equipment to entire rooms — in just 90 minutes. When first interviewed in October, Drake said his product was superior to commonly used household cleaners certified by the Environmental Protection Agency because “our product actually kills COVID, SARS-CoV-2, everywhere, everywhere, it can touch. So it kills the underneath of the desk, top of the desk, the underneath of the chair, the air in the room, the cracks and crevices in the keyboards. It does a hundred percent super deep clean job that even a human couldn’t do.”

As proof, he pointed to a third-party lab test on the Sarus Systems website done by MRIGlobal, a research institute based in Kansas City, Missouri.The study is heavily redacted and sports a red “CONFIDENTIAL” stamp on the first page. Even the name “Sarus Systems” and its product were redacted — though both Drake and Kobach have publicly said the company paid for the test. The duo gave the Kansas Legislature an unredacted copy of the study, which was obtained by Columbia Journalism School.

MRIGlobal tests products for clients under criteria defined by the clients themselves, according to those familiar with the lab’s work. The study was not designed to prove that these products effectively “kill COVID” in real-world environments, as Drake and Kobach have claimed. In fact, the unredacted version shows the products were tested in extremely controlled rooms and that “stainless steel coupons” — small pieces of stainless steel exposed to the virus — were tested for sanitization. 

Experts who reviewed the unredacted study were unconvinced by the results.

“Ideally, this study would be one small part of a much longer, more complicated investigation, but the surfaces, materials, or ventilation of a typical hospital room or clinical work area are not replicated here,” said UCLA Emergency Medicine physician Mark Morocco. “I doubt that any health care entity would consider such a limited study sufficient to consider utilizing such a system (as Sarus’).” 

In other words, the study makes no suggestion that the product would be effective on porous surfaces, such as a desk or a chair, as Drake claimed. 

The study claims that ozone can sanitize the room at a rate of 99.8% — a figure too low to kill the virus under EPA standards. The study failed to address the health risks of ozone, which, according to the EPA, include lung damage, throat irritation and other respiratory ailments. The EPA considers ozone generators pesticidal devices, and as such, they have not reviewed the safety or efficacy of such products as a means for SARS-CoV-2 sanitization. 

On its webpage “Ozone Generators That Are Sold as Air Cleaners,” the EPA recommends — with italicized emphasis — that consumers use “proven methods of controlling air pollution. These methods include eliminating or controlling pollutant sources, increasing outdoor air ventilation and using proven methods of air cleaning.” They do not recommend the use of ozone for these purposes. 

Originally, Sarus Systems’ website indicated it was “an establishment registered with the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.” But the agency confirmed it had not reviewed the products and was not certifying any ozone technology for COVID-19 response.

After being presented with a detailed set of questions related to the company’s claims about the EPA, the website was changed. It now reads, “Sarus Systems designs and distributes products produced by manufacturers registered with the Environmental Protection Agency.” Drake did not explain the change in his statement, saying he stood by his claims and did not feel the company had been misleading.

Drake’s existing ozone line, distributed under the name Scent Crusher, “effectively eliminates odors” on hunting gear. Sarus Systems’ products, which include sanitizing totes, chests, closets and room sanitizers for commercial and residential use, work similarly. However, while Scent Crusher’s products cost, at the most, $349.99, Sarus’ cost up to $15,000, according to a presentation Kobach and Drake made to the Jackson County Board of County Commissioners on Sept. 14. 

Drake would not offer specific details on the difference between the two lines in order to explain the cost difference, only saying in a statement that Sarus Systems’ products “utilize several extra processes to further atomize and accelerate the ability to eliminate virus in a larger everyday setting.”

Kobach joined Sarus Systems following his loss for the Republican senate nomination to now-Sen. Roger Marshall last summer. He said he was “intrigued” by Drake’s pitch for a product that would, in Drake’s words, “kill COVID.” In an interview, Kobach described his role as “providing assistance for Dan in terms of pointing out where to go … navigating government contracting and decision-making in allocating resources at the state level in the post-COVID world.”

Kobach has a fraught history in Kansas. Before his failed Senate bid, he unsuccessfully ran for governor while serving as secretary of state. As secretary, he caused intense controversy by pushing harsh voter integrity measures, including a requirement that voters show documented proof of citizenship. That law was overturned in federal court in 2018. Kansas’ recent attempt to revive the law by appealing to the U.S. Supreme Court was unsuccessful. 

Drake claims he had the idea to modify his Scent Crusher products for SARS-CoV-2 disinfection last January, when he was working with the Los Angeles Emergency Management Department.

“They were using our prototypes on another product,” he said in an interview. “And they called me and asked, ‘Hey, would your system kill COVID?’ Probably,” Drake said.

But Ellen Linaac, the department’s administrative and finance division chief, said they had no record of ever working with Drake. In fact, the department outsources all of its PPE cleaning to Coastal Environmental Services in Huntington Beach, Linaac said. A Coastal Environmental Services spokesperson said the company has no relationship with Drake. 

Drake would not say who in the department he’d spoken to. In a statement, he said “there are thousands of people in the emergency network of LA” and mentioned, without offering more specificity, a “test site” in which unnamed emergency management employees offered him encouragement.

While Kobach claimed before legislators that Sarus Systems had a three-month backorder, and Drake claimed in interviews that the Minister of Health in Brazil, the Minister of Tourism in the Dominican Republic, and the corporate owners of Marriott Hotels had expressed interest, none of the reported buyers returned calls for comment. Moreover, though the duo presented the product at two local Kansas sheriff’s offices, in Jackson and Shawnee counties, neither office confirmed its interest. When asked to confirm purchases, Drake said “we do not comment on specific interest or orders for our products,” despite having named alleged customers in previous interviews.

There is also no public evidence that Sarus Systems is “close” to bringing any jobs to Kansas, as Drake claimed to legislators in September.

“We’re based in Wichita,” Drake said in an October interview. “We’ve got a plan in place to replace our manufacturing (in China) with sub-assembly stuff here. (Kansas is) taking out-of-work aircraft workers and access capacity in the aircraft manufacturing business to create these products. So, I think (Sarus Systems) can shift those back this way. … We’re running through a host of local manufacturers with a combination of some state opportunities to do that here in Kansas.”

Shang-Jin Wei, professor of Chinese business and economy at Columbia Business School, said this plan would not be cost-effective. Given how much cheaper low-skilled labor is in China, the “only practical” way to move hundreds of jobs to Kansas would be to relocate only the technology-intensive side of production to the United States — with the extensive aid of government incentives. Wei said the government is unlikely to provide these incentives while unemployment remains at its current low levels. 

COVID-19 itself would also likely prevent the plan. Even though COVID-19 has temporarily created a high unemployment rate, Wei said, the new factory wouldn’t be much help as most factories have had to reduce production to prevent the spread.

“Once COVID is gone,” Wei said, “presumably all the factories already in the states will resume their normal production, mak(ing) it less obvious for the local government to subsidize a potential production like this.”

 Closing out the meeting with Kansas legislators eager to break for lunch, Drake requested to make one final point.

“We are close to bringing several hundred jobs back to Wichita,” he said. “So even though we’ve produced a lot of this in Asia, this is meant to be done right here.”

Drake would not offer more specifics about his plan to bring jobs to Kansas, only saying that he’s “spent time” working on a manufacturing plan, and that “selecting good manufacturing sites with the proper workforce” is “a process.”

 

"There is also scant evidence their machines, or ozone in general, can safely eliminate SARS-CoV-2..."

That's the critical word.  It's not that tough to kill (deactivate, neutralize, whatever) coronavirus.  Ozone will definitely kill bacteria, and likely "inactivate" most viruses, but so does a lot shit. You could, as Trump suggest, inject bleach.  You could, as my idiot brother-in-law did, claim that his gym was safe to reopen because he used a machine that vaporized hydrogen peroxide.  The trick is not killing a whole lot of human cells with it.  So I could see this as a reasonable approach to sanitizing equipment (masks, equipment), but terrible for sanitizing spaces.  

One of the techs that HVAC vendors are pushing is "needle point ionization":  basically jolting the air with electricity to split molecules and give them a charge.  It does a couple of things: 1) makes contaminants clump together, so they can be filtered out more easily, 2) damage the molecules in viruses.  But, when you split O2 molecules, they recombines as O3 (ozone).  They have to monitor to the ozone production, to avoid degrading the interior air quality.  What responsible engineers view as a dangerous byproduct, Kobach is pursuing as a goal.  (Assuming he was pushing space sterilization, not equipment sterilization.)