CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk

[Anastasis 23469]

3 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Are those results specific to a particular 2-dose vaccine; i.e., Pfizer or Moderna?  Do they hold for both?

UK real world data, so will be a mix of AZ, PFE, and Moderna. 

 

12 hours ago, Pods said:

Israel says the Delta variant is infecting vaccinated people, representing as many as 50% of new cases. But they're less severe.

 

 

[babysdaddy 2724]

When did the shift from calling the variants uk/South Africa/Brazil/Indian to alpha/delta happen? Feels recent.

[NameAlreadyInUse 5112]

Recently

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20400]

SEC! SEC!   The threat of the delta variant looms large in the unvaccinated South.  I'm of two minds about this.  On the one hand, seeing people suffer tears at the fabric of my humanity. On the other hand, fewer Mississippians. 

The threat of the delta variant looms large in the unvaccinated South (msn.com)



 

[Gatorubet 30239]

Go read the Canadian Reddit and tell me what you see about what they say about their own government

Jesus! I hope this stupidity is really performance art.

[Gatorubet 30239]

On the one hand, seeing people suffer tears at the fabric of my humanity. On the other hand, fewer Mississippians. 

[Anastasis 23469]

12 hours ago, UDontKnow said:

This is the other reason why all those previous suggestions of spacing apart doses were absolutely ridiculous because it failed to take into account the unknown that future variants bring.

Canada disagrees. Vax strategy can and should be dynamic to change as reality on the ground and data evolve. It is not a static dogma. First dose prioritization would have saved lives in setting of supply constraints during Jan -April timeframe. With delta coming on and predominating by end of July, full vaccination has to be prioritized, and getting anyone that has not had any vaccine moving through the regimen. The latter is the real issue as we have demand constraint at this point, not a supply constraint. 

Edited June 27, 2021 by Anastasis

[Bama Chick 28596]

The name “Delta” came from the WHO.

My bet is the UK variant and India variant had Greek alphabet names too but the media just used the country of origin.

Delta originated with the India variant so calling it the “new India variant” or “India variant 2.0” sounded dumb to an editor, so they went with the WHO designation.

[Anastasis 23469]

The Greek letter designations were assigned a few weeks back. U.K. is alpha., SA is beta, Brazil is gamma, India is delta. 

Edited June 27, 2021 by Anastasis

[Pods 7552]

Quote

As of June, WHO began using Greek letters to refer to the variants. The variant that had been first detected in the UK in September last year was classified as Alpha. South Africa is Beta and India is Delta. Variant P.1, which was mentioned as the one in Manaus, because it was identified in that city in Brazil, was renamed Gamma. 

Alpha = UK Variant 

Beta = South African

Gamma = Brazilian = P.1

Delta = Indian (60% more transmissible than Alpha)

Delta + = Evolved form of Delta, currently in low numbers that has an additional mutation, K417N that is also present in other variants. 

Lambda is the latest variant of concern. It's the Andean variant prevalent in Peru. 

 

 

Edited June 27, 2021 by Pods
I see Ana posted the variant Rosetta Stone while I was confirming the info.

[jimmyjazz 45957]

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20400]

 

[Neonmoon 38129]

We’re already at Lambda? What happened to Epsilon? Too much coke?

[Pods 7552]

32 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

We’re already at Lambda? What happened to Epsilon? Too much coke?

Tried to copy/paste earlier from WHO variants of concern page, but ended up having to reformat it. They are all worth keeping an eye on, but especially Zeta, Theta, Kappa and Gamma, because they are evolving in competition with Gamma in SA and Delta in India/SE Asia and showing they are relatively fit against it. Safe assumption they are going to be bad shit, because Delta and Gamma should be kicking their ass, but it's not happening. 

• Epsilon  B.1.427/B.1.429  
  • First Detected- United States of America, March 2020
  • Designated variant of concern- 5-Mar-2021  
• Zeta  P.2  
  • First Detected -Brazil, April 2020  
  • Designated variant of concern- 17-Mar-2021
• Eta  B.1.525  
  • First Detected Multiple countries, Dec 2020
  • Designated variant of concern- 17-Mar-2021  
• Theta  P.3  
  • First Detected Philippines, Jan 2021
  • Designated variant of concern- 24-Mar-2021  
• Iota  B.1.526  
  • First Detected United States of America, Nov 2020
  • Designated variant of concern- 24-Mar-2021  
• Kappa  B.1.617.1
  • First Detected- India, October 2020
  • Designated variant of concern- Apr-2021 
• Lambda C.37
  • First Detected- Peru, Dec-2020
  • Designated variant of concern- 14-Jun-2021

[Pods 7552]

I don't know why the idea that COVID wasn't going to evolve to get more severe ever became the dominant thought among epidemiologists, but it violated basic evolutionary biology and it's fucking stupid.

Viruses evolve to spread, so in a quickly lethal virus, it's in the viruses "best interests" to become less deadly. However, COVID develops and kills slowly. People don't usually die of COVID until 6+ weeks after exposure and they infect a shitload of people before then. 

There is literally no selection pressure on the virus not to become more severe, or more deadly, because it has already reproduced so many times by the time that happens. It's the exact same reason so much shit starts falling apart on the human body after age 40-45. Historically, we've already had all the kids we're going to by that age. Those kids have likely had kids and the genes are passed on already. Then the warranty expires. 

[jimmyjazz 45957]

I might regret asking this, but I'm no biologist:  what is the feedback mechanism whereby a virus evolves in such a way as to maximize spread?  Is it literally just random mutation and the most conducive to maximum spread survives?  Mutations that cause quick death themselves die off because the math doesn't work out?

If you tell me that covid is sentient, I'm not gonna sleep for a week.

[Guest]

so NOW we want to qualify covid deaths?

 

LOLz.

 

 

 

Not laughing at the deaths, for sure.  The politics and processes of the whole ordeal are also tragic. Someday, you'll sit on the throne, and the truth will be what you make it.

Edited June 27, 2021 by slorch

[JimmyJames 12271]

12 minutes ago, slorch said:

so NOW we want to qualify covid deaths?

 

LOLz.

 

 

 

Not laughing at the deaths, for sure.  The politics and processes of the whole ordeal are also tragic. Someday, you'll sit on the throne, and the truth will be what you make it.

Trump and the right wing hate machine made it political by repeatedly calling it a hoax. End of story. It is tragic that they are such fucking idiots but what are ya gonna do.

Then they said they didn’t call it a “hoax” but said it was a “democratic hoax.” Like that somehow makes a difference. It has and will cause the death of a lot of their supporters.

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

I might regret asking this, but I'm no biologist:  what is the feedback mechanism whereby a virus evolves in such a way as to maximize spread?  Is it literally just random mutation and the most conducive to maximum spread survives?  Mutations that cause quick death themselves die off because the math doesn't work out?

If you tell me that covid is sentient, I'm not gonna sleep for a week.

All mutations are random. The consequences are not.

 

 

[Neonmoon 38129]

1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

I might regret asking this, but I'm no biologist:  what is the feedback mechanism whereby a virus evolves in such a way as to maximize spread?  Is it literally just random mutation and the most conducive to maximum spread survives?  Mutations that cause quick death themselves die off because the math doesn't work out?

If you tell me that covid is sentient, I'm not gonna sleep for a week.

The feedback mechanism is life. If it’s not growing, it’s dying. Same for humans. It’s a survival mechanism. 

[Pods 7552]

1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

I might regret asking this, but I'm no biologist:  what is the feedback mechanism whereby a virus evolves in such a way as to maximize spread?  Is it literally just random mutation and the most conducive to maximum spread survives?  Mutations that cause quick death themselves die off because the math doesn't work out?

If you tell me that covid is sentient, I'm not gonna sleep for a week.

Yeah, basically natural selection is acting to maximize spread and spread rate. Whether more people die from it 6 weeks later is irrelevant, because the virus has already replicated countless times. 

 

I tend to anthropomorphize the explanations a bit, because it's an easier way to relate the topics to non-specialists, but there is definitely no sentience involved. 

There are several ways for changes to the genetic material to occur, mutation is the most commonly known. There's also genetic drift and a few others. Some really weird shit can happen when viruses jump species, but that's already taken place, so the dominant one here is mutation.

One caveat, mutations are recessive traits, so they are selected against by default. The vast majority are immediately removed from the population and do not survive to a second generation. To anthropomorphize for a moment, think of a virus like a car. It's a machine that works pretty well as it is. If you open the hood of your car, grab a random wire and insert it into a different place, it almost always will make the car quit working. The odds that you would improve it are insanely low. Same thing with organisms and viruses, most changes to a functioning system are going to be bad. For that reason, they are selected against by default.

This tells you when you see a mutation increasing in percentage in the population, that it is conferring an advantage to the organism, or the virus, and is being selected for by natural selection. Even rare events are common in really large populations, so we're seeing lots of genetic experimentation. 

 

Delta is some weird shit. 

Delta has changed symptoms, so it's not detected as quickly. The mild symptoms are more similar to a common cold, or allergies than before, so it's going to slip through the cracks and be harder to quash. Natural selection has selected for maximum spread and spreading in shorter intervals of contact. This is why we're seeing Delta in particular be much more transmissible in kids. I am speculating on this, but it's fairly basic first principles that Natural Selection will also cause increased asymptomatic spread. 

Delta is also crazy contagious for the unvaccinated. I read some reports this morning out of Sydney where contact tracing is suggesting infections after 5-10 seconds of shared contact passing each other in a mall. 

[Pods 7552]

If you are vaccinated, get ready for boosters. The mRNA vaccines are incredible and will save our asses. 

It's probably not a terrible idea to get an anti-body test. I've been thinking about it recently, because I didn't have a strong reaction to the vaccine either time. 

 

If you aren't vaccinated, do it now and keep your ass isolated and masked until full immunity. Delta and the coming variants are going to fucking wreck you.

Even if you've already had COVID. Gamma and Delta both frequently infect people that have already had COVID. 

 

[Pods 7552]

WHO recommends fully vaccinated individuals wear masks. 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/25/delta-who-urges-fully-vaccinated-people-to-continue-to-wear-masks-as-variant-spreads.html

Israel reinstates mask mandate after 10 days, cases quadrupled. 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/25/israel-resumes-indoor-mask-requirement-after-rise-in-covid-cases

 

Fucking sucks, but I'd be wearing a mask if you're around unvaccinated people for any length of time in enclosed spaces. The vaccines are still really good against severe cases. Keep any exposures down and you're probably fine from the currently existing variants.

The shit currently percolating in the masses of unvaccinated is why we're going to eventually need boosters. 

[jimmyjazz 45957]

1 hour ago, Pods said:

It's probably not a terrible idea to get an anti-body test. I've been thinking about it recently, because I didn't have a strong reaction to the vaccine either time.

Another basic question:  does the anti-body test distinguish between prior covid infection and simple vaccine response?  Like many people, I'm a bit curious about a round of persistent dry cough and short-term fever I had in Feb 2020, but I've been doubly vaccinated (Moderna), regardless.  Would a test tell me if I've actually had the disease?

[WhatTheBuck 28783]

8 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

The name “Delta” came from the WHO.

Maybe they had a long delay on a flight through Atlanta. 

[Anastasis 23469]

27 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Another basic question:  does the anti-body test distinguish between prior covid infection and simple vaccine response?  Like many people, I'm a bit curious about a round of persistent dry cough and short-term fever I had in Feb 2020, but I've been doubly vaccinated (Moderna), regardless.  Would a test tell me if I've actually had the disease?

There are different tests for nucleocapsid and  spike antibodies if you seek them out. The former would come from infection, the latter from vax. 

[Celery Man 20951]

Well balls. The CNBC article didn’t quite state explicitly - is the guidance on “masks” for vaccinated people based on

1)“95% + mask > 95%” for protecting yourself, or

2)similar but for preventing (asymptomatic) spread,

3) a general “this one is fucking shit up so just batten down the hatches people “

4) something different?

 We’ve been trying to follow guidance throughout but have not been masking up since being fully vaccinated (and most people  around here/Wake Forest seem to be either doing the same or being unvaccinated idiots). We also have a two month old baby. Not that I’ve been just taking the baby places constantly, but I haven’t been too worried about it for baby (obviously unvaccinated/unmasked) if I need to wear her into a store to get groceries. Should I reassess the risk there and avoid taking her into places?

[bolverk 29679]

I'm not sure whether the NYTimes "hot spot" map is behind the paywall, but I just checked it for the first time in a week or so. The previous Ozark Mountains hot spot has grown considerably and Northeast Texas is looking bad too.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/covid-cases.html

[Mo Horn 8843]

Quote

According to the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 46.1% of the total US population has been vaccinated against Covid-19. Alabama, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi and Wyoming are among the states with the lowest vaccination rates, with less than 35% of their population fully vaccinated.

 From a CNN article. These all have something in common, but I just can't put my finger on it. 

[lmao 178]

13 hours ago, Pods said:

If you are vaccinated, get ready for boosters. The mRNA vaccines are incredible and will save our asses. 

It's probably not a terrible idea to get an anti-body test. I've been thinking about it recently, because I didn't have a strong reaction to the vaccine either time. 

 

If you aren't vaccinated, do it now and keep your ass isolated and masked until full immunity. Delta and the coming variants are going to fucking wreck you.

Even if you've already had COVID. Gamma and Delta both frequently infect people that have already had COVID. 

 

While this is probably true I feel like a lot of people have moved on. I'm in SoCal where the vast majority of people followed the rules, restrictions, got vaccinated, etc. Was at the farmers market last week and it was basically wall to wall people (a lot of families) without a mask in sight other than maybe a few vendors.  Even most of them were maskless. Things are basically operating like the pre-covid days. I can't imagine what its like in say Oklahoma or Q parts of the country, no fucking way they're getting boosters or going to follow prevenitive measures.

[tchookem 3900]

While this is probably true I feel like a lot of people have moved on. I'm in SoCal where the vast majority of people followed the rules, restrictions, got vaccinated, etc. Was at the farmers market last week and it was basically wall to wall people (a lot of families) without a mask in sight other than maybe a few vendors.  Even most of them were maskless. Things are basically operating like the pre-covid days. I can't imagine what its like in say Oklahoma or Q parts of the country, no fucking way they're getting boosters or going to follow prevenitive measures.

Just got back from Yellowstone. Masks were very rare in Wyoming. But the only sideways glances my son got happened in the Abilene Chick-fil-A.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13512]

14 hours ago, Pods said:

WHO recommends fully vaccinated individuals wear masks. 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/25/delta-who-urges-fully-vaccinated-people-to-continue-to-wear-masks-as-variant-spreads.html

Israel reinstates mask mandate after 10 days, cases quadrupled. 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/25/israel-resumes-indoor-mask-requirement-after-rise-in-covid-cases

 

Fucking sucks, but I'd be wearing a mask if you're around unvaccinated people for any length of time in enclosed spaces. The vaccines are still really good against severe cases. Keep any exposures down and you're probably fine from the currently existing variants.

The shit currently percolating in the masses of unvaccinated is why we're going to eventually need boosters. 

It obviously is better to wear masks to prevent the spread of COVID just as it would help with colds/flu spread. The problem that I see with general WHO statements is that they are providing guidance for the entire world, including countries that have low/zero vaccination rates.  

Over the last week, I'm seeing at least half of the people at Houston grocery stores unmasked, including me. The positive tests and hospitalization rates are still very low in Houston. It will be interesting to see how much that ticks up with mask behavior changing. I imagine it will go up but the question is how much.

[cactusflinthead 27598]

The CoronavirusOutbreak

• Latest Updates
• Maps and Cases
• The Delta Variant
• States Behind on Vaccine Goals
• Vaccine Maps

LIVEUpdated 

June 28, 2021, 1:01 p.m. ET3 minutes ago

3 minutes ago

Covid Live Updates: Mix-and-Match Vaccines Provide Strong Immunity, Study Finds

Pfizer and AstraZeneca work together well in a two-dose vaccination schedule; so do three doses of AstraZeneca, researchers find in separate studies.

 

Here’s what you need to know:

• Mixing Pfizer and AstraZeneca vaccines provides strong protection, according to a preliminary study.

• A study finds that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines could offer protection for years.

• A third dose of the AstraZeneca vaccine is found to boost immune response.

• A cascading series of failures left hospitals across India without medical oxygen.

• Australia faces simultaneous outbreaks, fueled by the Delta variant.

• With an influx of British tourists on the horizon, Spain tightens entry requirements.

• Migrant workers flee Bangladesh’s capital ahead of a new lockdown.

• Young adults are among the biggest barriers to mass immunity.

 

 

VACCINE PROTECTION

Mixing Pfizer and AstraZeneca vaccines provides strong protection, according to a preliminary study.

 

 

 

 

General practitioner displaying empty vials of the Pfizer and AstraZeneca vaccines in Berlin in April.Credit...Fabrizio Bensch/Reuters

Early results from a British vaccine study suggest that mixing different brands of vaccines can provoke a protective immune response against Covid-19. In the trial, volunteers produced high levels of antibodies and immune cells after getting one dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine and one dose of the AstraZeneca-Oxford shot.

Administering the vaccines in either order is likely to provide potent protection, Dr. Matthew Snape, a vaccine expert at the University of Oxford, said at a news conference on Monday. “Any of these schedules, I think could be argued, would be expected to be effective,” he said.

Dr. Snape and his colleagues began the trial, called Com-COV, in February. In the first wave of the study, they gave 830 volunteers one of four combinations of vaccines. Some got two doses of either Pfizer or AstraZeneca, both of which have been shown to be effective against Covid-19. Others got a dose of AstraZeneca, followed by one of Pfizer, or vice versa.

For the first wave of volunteers, the researchers waited four weeks between doses. Studies have found that the AstraZeneca vaccine provides stronger protection if the second dose is delayed for up to 12 weeks, so the researchers are also running a separate 12-week trial which should deliver results next month.

The researchers found that volunteers reported more chills, headaches and muscle pain than people who get two doses of the same vaccine. But the side effects were short-lived.

Dr. Snape and his colleagues then drew blood to measure the immune response in the volunteers. They found that those who got two doses of Pfizer-BioNTech produced levels of antibodies about 10 times as high as those who got two doses of AstraZeneca. Volunteers who got Pfizer followed by AstraZeneca showed antibody levels about five times as high as those with two doses of AstraZeneca. And volunteers who got AstraZeneca followed by Pfizer reached antibody levels about as high as those who got two doses of Pfizer.

Dr. Snape said that the differences would most likely narrow in the volunteers who get a second dose after 12 weeks, when the AstraZeneca vaccine has had more time to strengthen its effects.

The study also found that using different vaccines produced a higher level of immune cells primed to attack the coronavirus than did giving two doses of the same vaccine. Dr. Snape said it wasn’t clear yet why mixing had that advantage. “It’s very intriguing, let’s say that much,” he said.

Dr. Snape and his colleagues have begun a similar trial, adding vaccines from Moderna and Novavax to the list of possibilities.

For now, he said, the best course of action remains getting two doses of the same vaccine. Large clinical trials have clearly demonstrated that this strategy reduces the chances of getting Covid-19. “Your default should be what is proven to work,” Dr. Snape said.

But there are many cases in which that may not be possible. Vaccine shipments are sometimes delayed because of manufacturing problems, for example. Younger people in some countries have been advised not to get a second dose of AstraZeneca because of concerns about the small risk of developing blood clots. In such situations, it’s important to know whether people can switch to another vaccine.

“This provides reassuring evidence that should work,” Dr. Snape said.

— Carl Zimmer

 

Tracking the Coronavirus ›

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VACCINE PROTECTION

A study finds that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines could offer protection for years.

 

 

 

 

Prepped Pfizer and Moderna vaccines at a pharmacy in Little Rock, Ark., in March.Credit...Rory Doyle for The New York Times

The vaccines made by Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna set off a persistent immune reaction in the body that may protect against the coronavirus for years, scientists reported on Monday.

The findings add to growing evidence that most people immunized with the mRNA vaccines may not need boosters, so long as the virus and its variants do not evolve much beyond their current forms — which is not guaranteed. People who recovered from Covid-19 before being vaccinated may not need boosters even if the virus does make a significant transformation.

“It’s a good sign for how durable our immunity is from this vaccine,” said Ali Ellebedy, an immunologist at Washington University in St. Louis who led the study, which was published in the journal Nature.

The study did not consider the vaccine made by Johnson & Johnson, but Dr. Ellebedy said he expected the immune response to be less durable than that produced by mRNA vaccines.

Dr. Ellebedy and his colleagues reported last month that in people who had survived Covid-19, immune cells that recognize the virus remained in the bone marrow for at least eight months after infection. A study by another team indicated that so-called memory B cells continue to mature and strengthen for at least a year after infection.

Based on those findings, researchers suggested that immunity might last years, possibly a lifetime, in people who were infected and later vaccinated. But it was unclear whether vaccination alone might have a similarly long-lasting effect.

After an infection or a vaccination, a specialized structure called the germinal center forms in lymph nodes. This structure is an elite school of sorts for B cells.

The broader the range and the longer these cells have to practice, the more likely they are to be able to thwart variants of the virus that may emerge.

After infection with the coronavirus, the germinal center forms in the lungs. But after vaccination, the cells’ education takes place in lymph nodes in the armpits, within reach of researchers.

Dr. Ellebedy’s team found that 15 weeks after the first dose of vaccine, the germinal center was still highly active in all 14 of the participants, and that the number of memory cells that recognized the coronavirus had not declined.

“The fact that the reactions continued for almost four months after vaccination — that’s a very, very good sign,” Dr. Ellebedy said. Germinal centers typically peak one to two weeks after immunization, and then wane.

“Usually by four to six weeks, there’s not much left,” said Deepta Bhattacharya, an immunologist at the University of Arizona. But germinal centers stimulated by the mRNA vaccines are “still going, months into it, and not a lot of decline in most people.”

Dr. Bhattacharya noted that most of what scientists know about the persistence of germinal centers is based on animal research. The new study is the first to show what happens in people after vaccination.

The results suggest that a vast majority of vaccinated people will be protected over the long term — at least, against the existing variants. But older adults, people with weak immune systems and those who take drugs that suppress immunity may need boosters; people who survived Covid-19 and were later immunized may never need them at all.

Exactly how long the protection from mRNA vaccines will last is hard to predict. In the absence of variants that sidestep immunity, in theory immunity could last a lifetime, experts said. But the virus is clearly evolving.

 

 

--- it's a messy copy. Gonna leave it anyway.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/06/28/world/covid-vaccine-coronavirus-mask/a-study-finds-that-the-pfizer-and-moderna-vaccines-could-offer-protection-for-years

[Neonmoon 38129]

Saw this article this morning. 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/study-finds-pfizer-and-moderna-covid-vaccines-may-offer-protection-for-years-as-australia-struggles-to-contain-delta-variant-11624892042

Quote

The vaccines developed by Pfizer with German partner BioNTech and Moderna using mRNA technology may offer protection against the coronavirus-borne illness COVID-19 for years, according to a new study published Monday.

The study, conducted by researchers at Washington University in St. Louis, suggests that people vaccinated with those shots may not need boosters, as long as the virus does not mutate or give rise to new vaccine-resistant variants. It also found that people who have recovered from COVID before being vaccinated “produced the most robust serologic responses,” showing they enjoy a strong immune response.

The study has been peer-reviewed, according to Nature, although it published it before copy editing and proofing.

Separately, an Oxford University study found that a third dose of the AstraZeneca AZN, +1.01% AZN, +1.96% vaccine administered more than six months after the second could boost protection against COVID-19. The researchers found that a third dose leads to a substantial increase in antibodies and induces a strong boost to immune response against the virus, including variants. The findings, which have not yet been peer-reviewed, were published in a preprint study on Monday.

Here is the Washington University study. 

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03738-2_reference.pdf

I'm the person who will get the booster no matter what, because variants, but it's nice to know protection might last for years. 

[ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2676]

Starting to feeling more and more guilty that I signed spouse up to get vaxxed back in March and it ended up being the J&J shot. 

[Anastasis 23469]

1 hour ago, ChuckNorrisActionJeans said:

Starting to feeling more and more guilty that I signed spouse up to get vaxxed back in March and it ended up being the J&J shot. 

If I was her I’d boost with a single mRNA shot imo. Data in mixed regimens coming out and looks good. 

[The Dog 44054]

2 hours ago, ChuckNorrisActionJeans said:

Starting to feeling more and more guilty that I signed spouse up to get vaxxed back in March and it ended up being the J&J shot. 

 

12 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

If I was her I’d boost with a single mRNA shot imo. Data in mixed regimens coming out and looks good. 

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/a-mix-and-match-approach-to-covid-19-vaccines-could-provide-logistical-and-immunological-benefits

Talk to your doc and see what he/she says about getting a single dose of Pfizer/Moderna. 

[WBT 20572]

2 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

Saw this article this morning. 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/study-finds-pfizer-and-moderna-covid-vaccines-may-offer-protection-for-years-as-australia-struggles-to-contain-delta-variant-11624892042

Here is the Washington University study. 

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03738-2_reference.pdf

I'm the person who will get the booster no matter what, because variants, but it's nice to know protection might last for years. 

All the studies I have seen show no drop in antibodies over time but everything you read in the non-scientific media is that everyone will need an annual booster.  I don't understand what that's based on.

[Captainant 27671]

17 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

If I was her I’d boost with a single mRNA shot imo. Data in mixed regimens coming out and looks good. 

 

5 minutes ago, The Dog said:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/a-mix-and-match-approach-to-covid-19-vaccines-could-provide-logistical-and-immunological-benefits

Talk to your doc and see what he/she says about getting a single dose of Pfizer/Moderna. 

thanks for the insight around this - my wife and I both got J&J shots since it was the first one available to us, and I've wondered about if we're even able to get boosters of other vaccine types. I figured it wouldn't make much difference at this point since it's just a mechanism to train your immune system's memory, but it's good to know I won't ask my doctor a stupid question lol

[Pods 7552]

1 minute ago, WBT said:

All the studies I have seen show no drop in antibodies over time but everything you read in the non-scientific media is that everyone will need an annual booster.  I don't understand what that's based on.

The anti-bodies last a long time and if everyone in the world was getting vaccinated with mRNA/Astra Zeneca in the immediate future, the current vaccines would get us through this. Pfizer (96% against severe disease) does well on Delta still. So does Astra Zeneca. Moderna likely does, but I've had a hard time finding actual data for it.

However, billions of people are unvaccinated and the virus is continuing to evolve in a huge reservoir. Because it takes so long to kill people, there is no selection pressure to constrain the evolution. Natural Selection will continue to select for COVID that can escape current vaccines.

The mRNA vaccines can be adapted to changing variants very quickly. Moderna and Pfizer can pump out a booster that handles new variants very quickly, but it's always going to be whack-a-mole until rich countries prioritize vaccinating billions in the rest of the world. We're likely looking at booster shots whenever the vaccine efficacy drops below some critical threshold against dominant variants, whatever the public health folks think that threshold should be. 

[Pods 7552]

1 minute ago, Captainant said:

 

thanks for the insight around this - my wife and I both got J&J shots since it was the first one available to us, and I've wondered about if we're even able to get boosters of other vaccine types. I figured it wouldn't make much difference at this point since it's just a mechanism to train your immune system's memory, but it's good to know I won't ask my doctor a stupid question lol

I'll second what Ana and The Dog said. That's absolutely what I would do if I was in your situation as well. Try to get an mRNA second shot and you'll be golden. The data I've seen on combination shots of any of the majors is really good. 

[Guest Lobo]

22 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

We’re already at Lambda? What happened to Epsilon? Too much coke?

A lot of outstanding young viruses figure they'll mutate Omega or they won't mutate at all.  /marmalard 

[Pods 7552]

14 hours ago, Celery Man said:

Well balls. The CNBC article didn’t quite state explicitly - is the guidance on “masks” for vaccinated people based on

1)“95% + mask > 95%” for protecting yourself, or

2)similar but for preventing (asymptomatic) spread,

3) a general “this one is fucking shit up so just batten down the hatches people “

4) something different?

 We’ve been trying to follow guidance throughout but have not been masking up since being fully vaccinated (and most people  around here/Wake Forest seem to be either doing the same or being unvaccinated idiots). We also have a two month old baby. Not that I’ve been just taking the baby places constantly, but I haven’t been too worried about it for baby (obviously unvaccinated/unmasked) if I need to wear her into a store to get groceries. Should I reassess the risk there and avoid taking her into places?

My default this whole time has been to overly err on the side of caution. I'd rather be wrong by being careful than fuck around and find out. I would definitely not take a young baby around unvaccinated folks for any stretch of time especially indoors. The odds she would get sick and die are VERY low, but they aren't zero. My bigger concern would be consequences from possible long covid with regard to epigenetic effects during development. Again, low odds, but unknowable odds right now and that would be too much uncertainty for me to risk it. 

Problem is, they are handling this like a public relations crisis, as much as a public health one. Public health and epidemiologists have also been frustratingly slow and incorrect frequently during this. Reddit kicked their ass up and down if you could filter it out from the chaff. If there is a problem, official channels will be slow to identify and report it. 

So, we're erring on the side of abundant caution. My family is still masking indoors, but not outdoors, or at to-go windows. We visit with vaccinated friends unmasked. 

[Anastasis 23469]

1 hour ago, WBT said:

All the studies I have seen show no drop in antibodies over time but everything you read in the non-scientific media is that everyone will need an annual booster.  I don't understand what that's based on.

The lay press needs to sell clicks. Scary variant talk and the never ending pandemic serves those ends. 

[Judge Roybeanbag 11819]

22 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

The lay press needs to sell clicks. Scary variant talk and the never ending pandemic serves those ends. 

Maybe.  Problem is, the people that have sowed and profited from distrust of factual news haven’t died yet.  Yet.  

[mdmost 43002]

We can never forget the massive injustice that happened this day last year during the height of Covid!

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19101]

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/a-mix-and-match-approach-to-covid-19-vaccines-could-provide-logistical-and-immunological-benefits
Talk to your doc and see what he/she says about getting a single dose of Pfizer/Moderna. 

I just recommended my folks do the same. They got J&J.

[NameAlreadyInUse 5112]

3 hours ago, mdmost said:

We can never forget the massive injustice that happened this day last year during the height of Covid!

Thinking this over, why on the hell would you make your first restaurant after 3.5 months be a meal that you are only willing to eat under very particular circumstances?  Seems like after taking a quarter off you’d want to pick your absolute favorite thing as a welcome back. So entitled and stupid. 

[Anastasis 23469]

Imagine getting bent out of shape over shredded cheese from a bag. 

[washparkhorn 9939]

2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Imagine getting bent out of shape over shredded cheese from a bag. 

Food texture and consistency creates anxiety for far too many people. 

There's probably a pill for it.