CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk

[Nice Guy Eddie 13512]

(cross post from the DT thread)

Houston Chronicle article in regards to coddling the unvaccinated: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/columnists/tomlinson/article/Tomlinson-Masks-off-and-let-the-unvaccinated-pay-16282552.php

Bold is my edit:

Quote

Vaccine deniers talk a good game about their freedom, but sadly society does not do enough to hold them responsible for their decisions.

This failure has profound economic costs and creates a free-rider problem. It’s easy to reject a vaccine if you don’t have to pay the financial costs of your illness. This is the persistent problem with libertarian thinking, adherents tend to take all the liberties and accept none of the consequences.

 

[Biff Tannen 45688]

[BrickHorn 18236]

1 minute ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

(cross post from the DT thread)

Houston Chronicle article in regards to coddling the unvaccinated: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/columnists/tomlinson/article/Tomlinson-Masks-off-and-let-the-unvaccinated-pay-16282552.php

Bold is my edit:

 

Yep. My argument has always been: If you don’t get vaccinated and you get COVID, you pay out of pocket for any health care you need. When you run out of money, the health care stops. 

Because paying to keep your dumb ass alive would be socialism. And if there’s anything worse than dying, it’s living in a socialist hellscape where society bears the burden to save idiots from their own stupid, lazy choices. 

[Anastasis 23469]

1 minute ago, BrickHorn said:

Yep. My argument has always been: If you don’t get vaccinated and you get COVID, you pay out of pocket for any health care you need. When you run out of money, the health care stops. 

Because paying to keep your dumb ass alive would be socialism. And if there’s anything worse than dying, it’s living in a socialist hellscape where society bears the burden to save idiots from their own stupid, lazy choices. 

Co-sign. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13512]

Just now, BrickHorn said:

Yep. My argument has always been: If you don’t get vaccinated and you get COVID, you pay out of pocket for any health care you need. When you run out of money, the health care stops. 

Because paying to keep your dumb ass alive would be socialism. And if there’s anything worse than dying, it’s living in a socialist hellscape where society bears the burden to save idiots from their own stupid, lazy choices. 

Unfortunately our healthcare system does not remove financial coverage because of dumb decisions. 

As the article points out, we should all forgo masks and let the unvaccinated deal with outcome. The downside is that it can harm the rest of us if they start to fill up on hospitals.  However if you're unvaccinated and get covid? Deal with going to a pulmonologist with your reduced lung capacity for the rest of your life. 

[Aqua Buddha 14597]

37 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Unfortunately our healthcare system does not remove financial coverage because of dumb decisions. 

As the article points out, [b]we should all forgo masks and let the unvaccinated deal with outcome.[/b] The downside is that it can harm the rest of us if they start to fill up on hospitals.  However if you're unvaccinated and get covid? Deal with going to a pulmonologist with your reduced lung capacity for the rest of your life. 

Yep:

[Bevo14 8311]

Why are there so many assclowns in this country? Get vaccinated you stupid fucks! Just my random thought of the day.

[jimmyjazz 45957]

2 hours ago, HenryJames said:

That dude wouldn’t even fit in an oven.

Fat side up or fat side down?

[Sawbonz 27563]

1 hour ago, BrickHorn said:

Yep. My argument has always been: If you don’t get vaccinated and you get COVID, you pay out of pocket for any health care you need. When you run out of money, the health care stops. 

Because paying to keep your dumb ass alive would be socialism. And if there’s anything worse than dying, it’s living in a socialist hellscape where society bears the burden to save idiots from their own stupid, lazy choices. 

Now do diabetes heart disease and COPD. I think we just solved the healthcare crisis

[Neonmoon 38129]

1 minute ago, Sawbonz said:

Now do diabetes heart disease and COPD. I think we just solved the healthcare crisis

Anyone over a certain BMI is not allowed to eat sugar or bread 

[Orale 1087]

Now do diabetes heart disease and COPD. I think we just solved the healthcare crisis

Those conditions can be prevented with two vaccine shots that literally take a minute? Cool!

[Pods 7552]

On 6/29/2021 at 11:12 AM, Sawbonz said:

If your immunity is based on antibodies to the spike protein you should have lasting immunity because the spike protein cannot change much and still facilitate entry into host cells. I would imagine a change significant enough to prevent antibody attachment would be very likely to hinder the spike protein’s ability to bind to the host

 

This is what all the public health people said last year and was one of the main reasons they claimed we wouldn't get more severe variants. Unfortunately, they were wrong. Most of the WHO variants of concern have multiple mutations to the spike protein and this is how they are evading current vaccines in breakthrough cases.

 

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2021/06/23/science.abi6226.full

Effect of natural mutations of SARS-CoV-2 on spike structure, conformation, and antigenicity

SARS-CoV-2 variants with multiple spike mutations enable increased transmission and antibody resistance...

 

 

Almost everyone on the planet catching COVID today is catching a more infectious form due to at least one mutation to the spike protein. It emerged a little over a year ago and is present in most of the other variant forms, which have stacked more spike mutations on top of it. 

https://www.lanl.gov/updates/sars-cov-2-variant.php

Tracking SARS-CoV-2 Spike mutations

A SARS-CoV-2 variant carrying the Spike protein amino acid change D614G has become the most prevalent form in the global pandemic.

In this paper, the Los Alamos team and their colleagues provided evidence that particular SARS-CoV-2 mutation was associated with increased viral transmission and the spread of COVID-19, was more infectious in cell culture, and was associated with higher levels viral genetic material in the upper respiratory tract of infected individuals. The variant in question, D614G, makes a small but effective change in the virus’s ‘Spike’ protein, which the virus uses to enter human cells.

 

There IS an upper bound on how much change can occur on the spike protein before it stops functioning, but data shows there's still plenty of room to accumulate some nasty combinations. This is where the mRNA booster vaccines will shine. 

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2652]

6 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Boom! It’s not difficult. From my 2nd dose of Pfizer. If I were dead then I wouldn’t care if you saw the other side of the card that shows my name and birth date. 

I mean, do you want me to call up his widow, who I have never met and ask her to send me a proof of vaccination for internet people?  The day after he died Lol

[Pods 7552]

1 minute ago, Xian said:

I mean, do you want me to call up his widow, who I have never met and ask her to send me a proof of vaccination for internet people?  The day after he died Lol

Well, the day he died would have been better, but we didn't know about it yet. 

[WhatTheBuck 28783]

4 hours ago, formermav43 said:

Who’d have thought that posting photos of vaccination cards to satisfy random message board posters wouldn’t be a priority?

Have you been vaccinated?

[formermav43 4606]

7 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Have you been vaccinated?

I’ll try to remember to leave my next of kin instructions to answer that to your satisfaction in the event of my death.

[WhatTheBuck 28783]

27 minutes ago, Xian said:

I mean, do you want me to call up his widow, who I have never met and ask her to send me a proof of vaccination for internet people?  The day after he died Lol

I’m saying I doubt whether he was actually vaccinated without seeing proof. And, from what I’ve seen from the people who use Facebook and Twitter, if he really was vaccinated then I would expect that proof to have already been posted. So I have no idea whether the guy was vaccinated or not. It could be a lie. And if it’s a lie then that’s a sinister message to send. 

[WhatTheBuck 28783]

6 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

I’ll try to remember to leave my next of kin instructions to answer that to your satisfaction in the event of my death.

I’ll take that as a no. 

[formermav43 4606]

Just now, WhatTheBuck said:

I’ll take that as a no. 

I expected nothing less of your keen insight.

[WhatTheBuck 28783]

Just now, formermav43 said:

I expected nothing less of your keen insight.

I don’t trust you but I’ll bet I’m right. 

[formermav43 4606]

Just now, WhatTheBuck said:

I don’t trust you but I’ll bet I’m right. 

[Anastasis 23469]

We’ve completed the re-entry maneuvers in my family. We’re moving on. I am comfortable with the remaining risks and we will course correct if the data dictate. Until then we are exercising mental health days instead of living in holes. 

[WhatTheBuck 28783]

13 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

You’re a Trump supporter, right?

[formermav43 4606]

[Biff Tannen 45688]

Y'all should just fuck and get it overwith.

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2652]

58 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

I’m saying I doubt whether he was actually vaccinated without seeing proof. And, from what I’ve seen from the people who use Facebook and Twitter, if he really was vaccinated then I would expect that proof to have already been posted. So I have no idea whether the guy was vaccinated or not. It could be a lie. And if it’s a lie then that’s a sinister message to send. 

His facebook is open and as another poster said he talked about searching for and taking the JJ months ago. Way before he was sick.   Recently he and his wife have posted about every stage of the sickness up until he died. 
 

assuming it is all a lie. Thats really involved.  Especially the dying part. 

[Neonmoon 38129]

10 minutes ago, Xian said:

His facebook is open and as another poster said he talked about searching for and taking the JJ months ago. Way before he was sick.   Recently he and his wife have posted about every stage of the sickness up until he died. 
 

assuming it is all a lie. Thats really involved.  Especially the dying part. 

You have to really commit to the bit to sell it 

[Captainant 27671]

4 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

Anyone over a certain BMI is not allowed to eat sugar or bread 

[Sawbonz 27563]

4 hours ago, Pods said:

 

This is what all the public health people said last year and was one of the main reasons they claimed we wouldn't get more severe variants. Unfortunately, they were wrong. Most of the WHO variants of concern have multiple mutations to the spike protein and this is how they are evading current vaccines in breakthrough cases.

 

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2021/06/23/science.abi6226.full

Effect of natural mutations of SARS-CoV-2 on spike structure, conformation, and antigenicity

SARS-CoV-2 variants with multiple spike mutations enable increased transmission and antibody resistance...

 

 

Almost everyone on the planet catching COVID today is catching a more infectious form due to at least one mutation to the spike protein. It emerged a little over a year ago and is present in most of the other variant forms, which have stacked more spike mutations on top of it. 

https://www.lanl.gov/updates/sars-cov-2-variant.php

Tracking SARS-CoV-2 Spike mutations

A SARS-CoV-2 variant carrying the Spike protein amino acid change D614G has become the most prevalent form in the global pandemic.

In this paper, the Los Alamos team and their colleagues provided evidence that particular SARS-CoV-2 mutation was associated with increased viral transmission and the spread of COVID-19, was more infectious in cell culture, and was associated with higher levels viral genetic material in the upper respiratory tract of infected individuals. The variant in question, D614G, makes a small but effective change in the virus’s ‘Spike’ protein, which the virus uses to enter human cells.

 

There IS an upper bound on how much change can occur on the spike protein before it stops functioning, but data shows there's still plenty of room to accumulate some nasty combinations. This is where the mRNA booster vaccines will shine. 

Almost every person on the planet catching covid right now is not vaccinated. There has been no evidence published in peer review study that delta or delta+ variant can evade the immunity given from current mRNA vax. 
 

ETA breakthrough infections are rare and serious illness from breakthrough infections, while not nonexistent, are exceedingly rare. 

Edited June 30, 2021 by Sawbonz

[Sawbonz 27563]

4 hours ago, Orale said:

5 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

Now do diabetes heart disease and COPD. I think we just solved the healthcare crisis

Those conditions can be prevented with two vaccine shots that literally take a minute? Cool!

I thought we were talking about people taking financial responsibility for their health problems resulting from their bad decisions. Why should how much time the poor decisions take come into play?

[Sawbonz 27563]

18 hours ago, Xian said:

Just found a local east texas republican shock jock just died of covid today. He claimed to have gotten the JJ vaccine. If so, things might be getting interesting out there for all the one dose people. 

Name?

[Pods 7552]

52 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Almost every person on the planet catching covid right now is not vaccinated. There has been no evidence published in peer review study that delta or delta+ variant can evade the immunity given from current mRNA vax. 
 

ETA breakthrough infections are rare and serious illness from breakthrough infections, while not nonexistent, are exceedingly rare. 

 

That isn't what you said and if it was, I wouldn't have disagreed with you. Delta and Delta+ are going to wreck shop on the unvaccinated, but immunized people are probably good. The vast majority of the people catching COVID right now are unvaccinated. We don't disagree. 

 

On 6/29/2021 at 11:12 AM, Sawbonz said:

If your immunity is based on antibodies to the spike protein you should have lasting immunity because the spike protein cannot change much and still facilitate entry into host cells. I would imagine a change significant enough to prevent antibody attachment would be very likely to hinder the spike protein’s ability to bind to the host

 

This is the post my post was in response to. This post is repeating incorrect conventional wisdom that mutations to the spike protein can't evolve without the virus losing the ability to infect people. It's not your fault, that's what everyone with any kind of official platform said for the first 6 months of the pandemic, but it's wrong and it was demonstrably wrong almost immediately. The first spike protein mutation, D614G, was observed in Feb 2020. It caused increased infectivity and evaded antibodies. Info on it started appearing in pre-prints by May 2020 and peer-reviewed journals over the summer, but the messaging was very slow to change. Yet one more in the countless pile of things the Trump admin fucked up. 

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.29.069054v2

https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(20)30820-5?_returnURL=https%3A%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com%2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS0092867420308205%3Fshowall%3Dtrue

It was always a flawed hypothesis, off by 180 degrees from reality, because if the spike protein is how the virus enters the cells, this area is actually under intense selection pressure, as we've seen direct evidence of from the variants. 

We now KNOW, not only that the spike protein can mutate, but that these mutations ARE causing increased infectivity and evading antibodies. We know these variants likely cause reinfection in patients that have already had COVID. 

The second link in my previous post showed almost every person catching COVID on the planet right now is catching one of the variant strains,  with at least one significant mutation to the spike protein that both increases infectivity and evades anti-bodies. My first link in my previous post showed that some of the variants have multiple mutations to the spike protein that also increase infectivity and evade antibodies and are worse than the single mutation forms.

Mutations are removed from a population by default. The null hypothesis going forward should be that if we see further mutations to the spike protein increasing in frequency in a population, the mutation is likely conferring an additional boost to infectivity and evasion of anti-bodies, because otherwise the new variant would be outcompeted by the old one. 

[Sawbonz 27563]

42 minutes ago, Pods said:

that mutations to the spike protein can't evolve without the virus losing the ability to infect people

I didn’t say that

 

Immunity doesn’t only mean inability to be infected. In fact there is disagreement about whether the immunity conferred by mRNA vaccines even prevents infection

 

and I stand by my statement that if the spike mutates enough to prevent the mRNA vaccine from being effective, those mutations will decrease its ability to cause infection. Nothing you quoted and no peer reviewed study to date indicates otherwise 

Edited July 1, 2021 by Sawbonz

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2652]

3 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

Name?

Jeff LeBlanc on FB

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Saw this on the way down to Fulton. No, I didn’t even bother going to the site. 
 

[Captainant 27671]

4 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:

Saw this on the way down to Fulton. No, I didn’t even bother going to the site. 
 

lmao out of morbid curiosity I took a look and it's a shitty grift selling t-shirts. Dude bought the domain on June 5th according to icann. Can't make this shit up.

[Born to Run 6569]

Saw this on the way down to Fulton. No, I didn’t even bother going to the site. 
 

One of my brother,'s in laws near that area had a similar sticker on his truck, but smaller. He's dead.

I would feel bad, but his side of that family spread covid around, put my brother at risk, my mom and others, killed a few in 2020, didn't get vaxed, clowned on our precautions as late as March and killed a few more in 2021 including himself. 6 weeks in the hospital. I'd say Karma, but nah, those nurses shouldn't have had to deal with that shit for no reason.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19101]

My brother is fucking around and he is going to find out.  He got angry at me saying he is tired of people of telling him to get the vaccine.  I told him I would be really fucking angry with him if him being unvaccinated caused the death of one of our parents because he brought COVID home to them (they have the J&J shot, which we do not have real world numbers on for the Delta variant yet).  I am fucking tired of his fucking feelings.  

I pay the mortgage on my parent's house and he lives with them.  I am basically putting my foot down.  He needs to get vaccinated to continue to live there.  Otherwise, I cut the money off.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19101]

46 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

My brother is fucking around and he is going to find out.  He got angry at me saying he is tired of people of telling him to get the vaccine.  I told him I would be really fucking angry with him if him being unvaccinated caused the death of one of our parents because he brought COVID home to them (they have the J&J shot, which we do not have real world numbers on for the Delta variant yet).  I am fucking tired of his fucking feelings.  

I pay the mortgage on my parent's house and he lives with them.  I am basically putting my foot down.  He needs to get vaccinated to continue to live there.  Otherwise, I cut the money off.

Message delivered.  We shall see.  

The exact conversation with my brother:

Me: "I really wish you would consider getting the vaccine.  Specifically, the Moderna or Pfizer.  I am worried about the Delta variant.  Mom and dad got J&J, and I am not sure what the efficacy of their vaccine is against this new variant......

Him:  "My feelings are hurt when people try and pressure me...."

Me: "Well, my feelings would be hurt if you killed one of our parents because you were unvaccinated."

Him: "You shouldn't talk to your family like that." and he hung up.

He proceeded to tell my mom I told him what to do.  She knows I did not, and I said I was using facts and he brought in feelings.  Fuck his feelings.  

[Longhorn_Fan68 33871]

40 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Message delivered.  We shall see.  

The exact conversation with my brother:

Me: "I really wish you would consider getting the vaccine.  Specifically, the Moderna or Pfizer.  I am worried about the Delta variant.  Mom and dad got J&J, and I am not sure what the efficacy of their vaccine is against this new variant......

Him:  "My feelings are hurt when people try and pressure me...."

Me: "Well, my feelings would be hurt if you killed one of our parents because you were unvaccinated."

Him: "You shouldn't talk to your family like that." and he hung up.

He proceeded to tell my mom I told him what to do.  She knows I did not, and I said I was using facts and he brought in feelings.  Fuck his feelings.  

time to sever the cord. 

[Aqua Buddha 14597]

3 hours ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

My brother is fucking around and he is going to find out.  He got angry at me saying he is tired of people of telling him to get the vaccine.  I told him I would be really fucking angry with him if him being unvaccinated caused the death of one of our parents because he brought COVID home to them (they have the J&J shot, which we do not have real world numbers on for the Delta variant yet).  I am fucking tired of his fucking feelings.  

I pay the mortgage on my parent's house and he lives with them.  I am basically putting my foot down.  He needs to get vaccinated to continue to live there.  Otherwise, I cut the money off.

I'm stunned at the number of people I know floating their parents, myself included.  We had to buy my mom a house and when we were doing the loan docs, our banker woman said she did those ALL the time.  Said it was a lot more common than people thought.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19101]

3 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

I'm stunned at the number of people I know floating their parents, myself included.  We had to buy my mom a house and when we were doing the loan docs, our banker woman said she did those ALL the time.  Said it was a lot more common than people thought.

I am not on the loan docs.  I offered to pay for my parents' house since they did so much for me, so I am doing so.  But I do not have to.  And unless they force the issue with my brother, then I will not anymore.  My mom has tried, but he is one of those that will dig in his heels because he is a stubborn, selfish asshole.

The amount of disinformation out there about the vaccines, anyone that posts it on social media is ACTUALLY hurting people.  This shit needs to stop.    

[DonkeyCigars 143]

I read this today, do smart people think COVID-19 could be similar?

Quote

 

A few months ago, I asked folks on Twitter if they could recommend some good books about the eradication of smallpox. Most people recommended books about Edward Jenner, who in 1796 was the first to demonstrate an effective smallpox vaccine. That’s revealing, because I’d asked about the eradication of smallpox, and smallpox wasn’t eradicated in 1796. Not even close.

While eradication would have been impossible without a highly effective vaccine, it also required the highly effective use of information. Or as Datini might have said, it required not losing your way from your nose to your mouth.

Ever since the vaccine for smallpox was demonstrated in 1796, people dreamed of eradicating the disease. But those dreams kept failing to come true. In trying to vaccinate the entire planet, over and over again, the vaccinators never managed to reach quite enough people. In poorer countries, smallpox lingered in rural areas or neglected communities. A generation of babies were born without any immunity and, soon enough, the disease returned.

In the mid-1960s, smallpox was still killing two million people a year. 

 

 

[4th&Five 41554]

 

[gmr548 16580]

I read this today, do smart people think COVID-19 could be similar?

 
A few months ago, I asked folks on Twitter if they could recommend some good books about the eradication of smallpox. Most people recommended books about Edward Jenner, who in 1796 was the first to demonstrate an effective smallpox vaccine. That’s revealing, because I’d asked about the eradication of smallpox, and smallpox wasn’t eradicated in 1796. Not even close.
While eradication would have been impossible without a highly effective vaccine, it also required the highly effective use of information. Or as Datini might have said, it required not losing your way from your nose to your mouth.
Ever since the vaccine for smallpox was demonstrated in 1796, people dreamed of eradicating the disease. But those dreams kept failing to come true. In trying to vaccinate the entire planet, over and over again, the vaccinators never managed to reach quite enough people. In poorer countries, smallpox lingered in rural areas or neglected communities. A generation of babies were born without any immunity and, soon enough, the disease returned.
In the mid-1960s, smallpox was still killing two million people a year. 
 

 

No one has seriously talked about eradicating COVID. It spreads too fast and too many people won’t get the vaccine.

[Anastasis 23469]

Some interesting data on long covid in pediatric setting. 

 

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.16.21257255v1

Although nobody doubts the existence of long COVID in children, it is still unclear to what extent children are affected. The Ciao Corona study is a longitudinal cohort investigating SARS-CoV-2 seroprevalence and clustering of cases among around 2500 children from 55 randomly selected primary and secondary schools in the canton of Zurich in Switzerland. Between June 2020 and April 2021, we completed three testing phases where we collected venous blood for serological analysis (ABCORA 2.0 test) and asked about symptoms with online questionnaires. We compared children who tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 antibodies in October/November 2020 with those who tested negative. Children who were seronegative in October/November 2020 and seroconverted or were not retested by March/April 2021 were excluded from the analysis (n=256). In March-May 2021 we assessed the presence of symptoms occurring since October 2020, lasting for at least 4 weeks, and persisting for either >4 weeks or >12 weeks. Overall, 1355 of 2503 children with a serology result in October/November 2020 and follow up questionnaire in March/April 2021 were included. Among seropositive and seronegative 6-to 16-year-old children and adolescents, 9% versus 10% reported at least one symptom beyond 4 weeks, and 4% versus 2% at least one symptom beyond 12 weeks. None of the seropositive children reported hospitalization after October 2020. Seropositive children, all with a history of pauci-symptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection, did not report long COVID more frequently than seronegative children. This study suggests a very low prevalence of long COVID in a randomly selected population-based cohort of children followed over 6 months after serological testing.

[NWBuck 8568]

Dad and new wife (mom died, and you don't want pics of anyone mentioned in this post) are in town for 5 days (uninvited, just decided "hey, we're coming out to visit in June/July").

Took two cars to go vacay at a National Park, drove up yesterday and back today. Conversation about balancing "rights" and responsibilities led to the following:

"Well, I'm not vaccinated either. I don't trust Bill Gates, Dr Fauci, or our government..." (my dad's wife, midway through a three hour drive home, after being unmasked around my kids for two days)

While my wife/kids are all vaccinated, I should probably mention that one of my daughters is immunocompromised (and we had to work closely with her physicians to get her vaxed safely). Today's revelation led to my discovering that my wife really does pick up on some of the colorful swear words that I've used during football season.

I understand (cognitively) people's fears/logic/stupidity about not getting vaccinated. What I'm really unhinged about is that this wasn't something that was shared before they arrived or at any point prior to getting in spending time with the kids. At least give me the chance to make a decision about what response (if any) might be needed or taken for my family.

[gmr548 16580]

Dad and new wife (mom died, and you don't want pics of anyone mentioned in this post) are in town for 5 days (uninvited, just decided "hey, we're coming out to visit in June/July").
Took two cars to go vacay at a National Park, drove up yesterday and back today. Conversation about balancing "rights" and responsibilities led to the following:
"Well, I'm not vaccinated either. I don't trust Bill Gates, Dr Fauci, or our government..." (my dad's wife, midway through a three hour drive home, after being unmasked around my kids for two days)
While my wife/kids are all vaccinated, I should probably mention that one of my daughters is immunocompromised (and we had to work closely with her physicians to get her vaxed safely). Today's revelation led to my discovering that my wife really does pick up on some of the colorful swear words that I've used during football season.
I understand (cognitively) people's fears/logic/stupidity about not getting vaccinated. What I'm really unhinged about is that this wasn't something that was shared before they arrived or at any point prior to getting in spending time with the kids. At least give me the chance to make a decision about what response (if any) might be needed or taken for my family.

What you have to understand is these people do not give a fuck about anyone else. They don’t care about any kind of social responsibility or common good, and if your daughter were to get seriously ill, step grandmother would no doubt see that as worthwhile to protect her right not to wear a mask. However, the mild inconvenience of coordinating travel plans with you and taking appropriate precautions around your immunocompromised child is an assault on their freedom. They can only see the situation for how it impacts them individually.

[Bookman 4639]

If Covid tears through the unvaccinated right now, wouldn't we get to herd immunity sooner?

[WhatTheBuck 28783]

18 minutes ago, Bookman said:

If Covid tears through the unvaccinated right now, wouldn't we get to herd immunity sooner?

No. The more people who have it, the more chances it has to mutate into new forms that our vaccinations don’t protect us against.