CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk

[jimmyjazz 45898]

4 minutes ago, justhookit said:

Nah all good. My point that flew over his head is we can have 100% of our population vaccinated, but a mutation can happen elsewhere in the world and we are right back here like we are with Delta. I don’t give a shit about y’alls argument over the border and immigration. Hook ‘em.

That's not true at all.  We know the vaccines provide significant protection against severe disease and death for the Delta variant.  The reason Delta is raging is because a large number of Americans aren't vaccinated.  If we had 100% coverage, our hospitals would not be filling up.

Now, it might be true that a variant could emerge for which the vaccine has zero efficacy, but so far nothing of the sort has happened.

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

You came in whining about blaming one side for a thing for which they deserve blame.  Came out guns blasting with the “idiot” call outs and how you need to dumb things down for the rest of us apparently as your genius is too much for us lower life forms.

And then you try to shift the conversation from our true actual problem to a theoretical “even if we get 100%” problem.  No thanks.  This idiot is just smart enough to know when someone isn’t worth engaging.

Edited August 1, 2021 by MC Fresh Breath

[WhatTheBuck 28776]

13 minutes ago, justhookit said:

You don’t read well.

You’re a liar and a fraud. 

[justhookit 4191]

7 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

That's not true at all.  We know the vaccines provide significant protection against severe disease and death for the Delta variant.  The reason Delta is raging is because a large number of Americans aren't vaccinated.  If we had 100% coverage, our hospitals would not be filling up.

Now, it might be true that a variant could emerge for which the vaccine has zero efficacy, but so far nothing of the sort has happened.

Actually, we don’t know that for sure yet.  I’m not going to derail this thread any further, but I posted real time real world numbers on the Texas thread. I DO NOT think they are correct, but as of now it doesn’t look good. Meanwhile I’m sitting here in Port A and four restaurants have shut down in the last 3 days due to Covid. These mostly aren’t unvaccinated people. Now, I think we can all agree that the end goal here is to cut the deaths down to an acceptable level so if the vaccines are working, great. I was mostly responding to his attempt to throw me under the bus on the border issue, which I wasn’t doing. But you know that.

[justhookit 4191]

22 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

You came in whining about blaming one side for a thing for which they deserve blame.  Came out guns blasting with the “idiot” call outs and how you need to dumb things down for the rest of us apparently as your genius is too much for us lower life forms.

And then you try to shift the conversation from our true actual problem to a theoretical “even if we get 100%” problem.  No thanks.  This idiot is just smart enough to know when someone isn’t worth engaging.

Y’all really don’t like it when someone comes in here and wants to discuss an issue but not make it about politics.

Edited August 1, 2021 by justhookit

[DDD Dad 14332]

You’re a liar and a fraud. 

Stahp

[DDD Dad 14332]

Y’all really don’t like it when someone comes in here and wants to discuss an issue but not make it about politics.

Stahp

[tigol 2395]

19 minutes ago, justhookit said:

Y’all really don’t like it when someone comes in here and wants to discuss an issue but not make it about politics.

When the vast majority of people that aren't vaccinated are not getting vaccinated due to an idiotic political movement, it's impossible to discuss without politics.

I think I appreciate what you are trying to do, but I hope you can understand why it is not being met with open arms.  People who believe in science have had enough.  There is no reasoning with people who are refusing the vaccine.  There's nothing to discuss.

[Francisco 2.0 32389]

 

 

[justhookit 4191]

4 minutes ago, tigol said:

When the vast majority of people that aren't vaccinated are not getting vaccinated due to an idiotic political movement, it's impossible to discuss without politics.

I think I appreciate what you are trying to do, but I hope you can understand why it is not being met with open arms.  People who believe in science have had enough.  There is no reasoning with people who are refusing the vaccine.  There's nothing to discuss.

Yeah I know and it’s frustrating as fuck. My hope I guess is that if it wasn’t so political a bunch more of the idiots would come around and take the shot. I mean one entire side of my family is enormously Republican and they’ve all been vaccinated. Let’s change the message to only stupid people don’t take the shot. Cut them off from healthcare. Whatever. I’m so done with this crap and it’s starting to feel like we are falling right back in to spring of 2020.

[jimmyjazz 45898]

34 minutes ago, justhookit said:

Actually, we don’t know that for sure yet.  I’m not going to derail this thread any further, but I posted real time real world numbers on the Texas thread. I DO NOT think they are correct, but as of now it doesn’t look good. Meanwhile I’m sitting here in Port A and four restaurants have shut down in the last 3 days due to Covid. These mostly aren’t unvaccinated people. Now, I think we can all agree that the end goal here is to cut the deaths down to an acceptable level so if the vaccines are working, great. I was mostly responding to his attempt to throw me under the bus on the border issue, which I wasn’t doing. But you know that.

I don't know what you mean by "the Texas thread".  If you have information that says a significant fraction of severe disease and death from Delta are vaccinated, then post it here, too.

[justhookit 4191]

1 minute ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

 

Blow it all up.

[WhatTheBuck 28776]

11 minutes ago, tigol said:

When the vast majority of people that aren't vaccinated are not getting vaccinated due to an idiotic political movement, it's impossible to discuss without politics.

I think I appreciate what you are trying to do, but I hope you can understand why it is not being met with open arms.  People who believe in science have had enough.  There is no reasoning with people who are refusing the vaccine.  There's nothing to discuss.

“Stahp” 😢

[jimmyjazz 45898]

. . . and before someone posits the asymptotic case wherein 100% of severe disease and death in a 100% vaccinated society are people who have been vaccinated . . . "stahp".  We're not there.

[justhookit 4191]

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

I don't know what you mean by "the Texas thread".  If you have information that says a significant fraction of severe disease and death from Delta are vaccinated, then post it here, too.

It’s the Texas Covid thread . Data is incomplete from Friday and in the accompanying YouTube presentation they said 95% of hospitalizations were unvaxxed which is GREAT news considering roughly 60% of the adult population is vaxxed.

Vaccine Breakthrough Cases in Nueces County
(217 cases)
• # hospitalized – 25
• #deaths–4
Vaccine Status: Moderna 78
Pfizer 57 J&J 30 Unknown 01
Time Infected: 25 to 54 days after last vaccine
 

link - https://www.cctexas.com/detail/covid-19-update

[jimmyjazz 45898]

3 minutes ago, justhookit said:

It’s the Texas Covid thread . Data is incomplete from Friday and in the accompanying YouTube presentation they said 95% of hospitalizations were unvaxxed which is GREAT news considering roughly 60% of the adult population is vaxxed.

Doesn't this support what I said?

[justhookit 4191]

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

Doesn't this support what I said?

For sure. But Delta just got here. They have one entire confirmed case.

Anyway I’m not arguing with you at all, we agree. I just took offense to mchammer trying to say that I was referencing border/immigration policy, which I clearly wasn’t. I’m hardheaded, but I’m the only one that has avoided discussing politics at all in this conversation, which was pretty much my original point. Peace.

[pyrohornIII 4814]

2 hours ago, justhookit said:

This is kind of where I was going. Thank you. I think. “Them” is roughly 35% of our population. 70ish% of those are Republicans. 100% are idiots. Forgive me for not looking up the real numbers.

Regardless the other real problem we have is the rest of the world which I think is a little less than 10% vaccinated. I haven’t heard any talk of shutting our borders down, so here we are. Y’all scream at political parties all you like.

As far as closing our borders, aren't there some pretty severe travel restrictions set by other countries on visiting the US? 

U.S. will not lift travel restrictions, citing Delta variant, White House says

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/exclusive-us-will-not-lift-travel-restrictions-citing-delta-variant-official-2021-07-26/

 

Maybe at the southern border the first thing we should do is vaccinate everyone who attempts entry (after testing negative).  If they refuse, an automatic rejection.  Then whether deported, detained or allowed entry, at least we know they are vaccinated.   Probably some ACLU case though would pop up.   

 

And yes, in the meantime the Republicans continue to deflect from the consequences of their inaction by creating more chaos, inciting more fear and hatred.   

[justhookit 4191]

Also greater than 10% of cases going to hospital and 4/217 deaths isn’t good, but I think the 217 number is waaaaaay low.

Edited August 1, 2021 by justhookit

[jimmyjazz 45898]

8 minutes ago, justhookit said:

For sure. But Delta just got here. They have one entire confirmed case.

You said the numbers don't look good.  I have no idea what you were specifically referring to.

[Biff Tannen 45673]

30 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

 

I mean, it does seem like people who remain unvaccinated are by and large people that, from a geopolitical perspective, the world might be better of without. But that’s mean to say. 

[justhookit 4191]

6 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

You said the numbers don't look good.  I have no idea what you were specifically referring to.

Well I clarified that in the post after it but maybe you didn’t see that. Those numbers don’t look off to you?

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/23/delta-variant-pfizer-covid-vaccine-39percent-effective-in-israel-prevents-severe-illness.html

and that’s why it would be really concerning. We will know in a month or so.

 

[Chuckie Finster 22694]

First time running errands in a few weeks. Mask usage WAAAAYY up, at least in the Katy area.

[Francisco 2.0 32389]

 

 

[UDontKnow 10444]

1 hour ago, pyrohornIII said:

As far as closing our borders, aren't there some pretty severe travel restrictions set by other countries on visiting the US? 

U.S. will not lift travel restrictions, citing Delta variant, White House says

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/exclusive-us-will-not-lift-travel-restrictions-citing-delta-variant-official-2021-07-26/

 

Maybe at the southern border the first thing we should do is vaccinate everyone who attempts entry (after testing negative).  If they refuse, an automatic rejection.  Then whether deported, detained or allowed entry, at least we know they are vaccinated.   Probably some ACLU case though would pop up.   

 

And yes, in the meantime the Republicans continue to deflect from the consequences of their inaction by creating more chaos, inciting more fear and hatred.   

This makes too much goddamn sense from a public health standpoint for it to ever come to fruition.

[deac_tracy 516]

Injecting dewormers into the blood stream to own the libz

[atomheartbevo 89648]

7 hours ago, justhookit said:

instead of tweets like that maybe beat them over the head with the science. I mean I know that won’t actually work but let’s try something other than what we are doing which isn’t working?

Nothing will work.  I'm in Texas.  My governor will not let local school districts and cities take the measures that they feel are appropriate, because our governor does not want to offend Republican voters.  He won't even let schools mandate masks for those who are too young.

He won't let a school board in Houston or Austin mandate masks for those too young to be vaccinated, because he doesn't want to offend a Republican in Lubbock or Amarillo or Midland.

Our governor has a law degree from Vanderbilt, which is a solid school.  He has a finance degree from UT.  The tree didn't fall on his head.

 

[atomheartbevo 89648]

My niece is going to a private school here in Texas.  Recently as the Delta stuff took off, the school mentioned on their FB page that they would be mandating masks for those who are too young to be vaccinated.  A parent lost her shit and nearly went into fucking qanon territory about the government trying to condition kids (this was a private school mind you) and that this was all a liberal ploy.  Somebody from the school chimed in and said she'd be getting the tuition refunded and that they should look elsewhere for their daughter's education.

Meanwhile, public schools can't mandate masks for those too young to be vaccinated, because Abbott doesn't want to offend people like that woman mentioned above.

[atomheartbevo 89648]

4 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

I come from a medical family and also married into one, so it’s extra nuts to me. I try to remind myself that most people have a distrust of the medical community, for whatever reason. 

I married into one (wife's mom, dad, and step-mom are all medical professionals, and siblings/aunts/uncles are as well), and this whole pandemic thing has been fucking excruciating for me on a completely different level, one that you are probably familiar with.  I have in-laws who believe this is all a fucking hoax, and watching that play out amongst the family has been like watching a train wreck in slow motion..

I have relatives on my side who are free to contact my in-laws for medical advice, but they would rather listen to Tucker.

[Captainant 27653]

1 hour ago, justhookit said:

I’m hardheaded, but I’m the only one that has avoided discussing politics at all in this conversation, which was pretty much my original point.

Thing is... Going out of your way to ignore the broader context and instigating factors to our terrible COVID response, you're not avoiding politics, you're providing cover and glossing over the maladministration of our COVID response. 

Our problems with vaccine hesitancy and crackpot treatments are straight from the trump admin press desk and from trump's own lips. Sorry it makes you uncomfortable that hundreds of thousands of Americans died otherwise preventable deaths if they hadn't had so many lies whispered in their ears by the trump-right.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19100]

1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

I mean, it does seem like people who remain unvaccinated are by and large people that, from a geopolitical perspective, the world might be better of without. But that’s mean to say. 

It may be mean, but it is true.  Embrace the meanness.  I am at the point of saying fuck it, let them die.

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

50 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

My niece is going to a private school here in Texas.  Recently as the Delta stuff took off, the school mentioned on their FB page that they would be mandating masks for those who are too young to be vaccinated.  A parent lost her shit and nearly went into fucking qanon territory about the government trying to condition kids (this was a private school mind you) and that this was all a liberal ploy.  Somebody from the school chimed in and said she'd be getting the tuition refunded and that they should look elsewhere for their daughter's education.

Meanwhile, public schools can't mandate masks for those too young to be vaccinated, because Abbott doesn't want to offend people like that woman mentioned above.

It was documented over a year ago that Betsy DeVos saw the pandemic as an opportunity to make inroads in increasing privatization and school vouchers. It's two fold: makes more money with tax dollars and allows for socioeconomic segregation at a greater scale. For those who argue that the vouchers can be used for poor students to attend better schools, have not seen how that is scaled up in most states. For example, Indiana (https://in.chalkbeat.org/2021/2/11/22279169/indiana-house-budget-378-million-vouchers-limit-poverty-aid-for-schools )

[justhookit 4191]

59 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Thing is... Going out of your way to ignore the broader context and instigating factors to our terrible COVID response, you're not avoiding politics, you're providing cover and glossing over the maladministration of our COVID response. 

Our problems with vaccine hesitancy and crackpot treatments are straight from the trump admin press desk and from trump's own lips. Sorry it makes you uncomfortable that hundreds of thousands of Americans died otherwise preventable deaths if they hadn't had so many lies whispered in their ears by the trump-right.

I am not going out of my way to ignore it and the other 364 days of the year are quite enough to dissect the gross incompetence of Trump and our government. I’m saying our messaging is not working.

I only quoted 1 paragraph but there’s more…..

“Vaccine hesitancy is a global problem. Surveys in 2021 report that between 50% and 60% of all respondents worldwide would be willing to receive a covid-19 vaccine, with wide variations across countries.1213 In the UK, surveys have found variation in willingness to have a vaccine between ethnic groups. The UK Household Longitudinal survey asked 12 035 participants (in November 2020) “how likely or unlikely would you be to take the vaccine?” Overall only 18% of respondents were hesitant (answering unlikely or very unlikely), in contrast with high levels of hesitancy in people of Black ethnicity (72%) followed by South Asians of Pakistani and Bangladeshi heritage (both 42%), and mixed ethnicities (32%), though levels of vaccine hesitancy were comparable with White people in respondents of Chinese ethnicity.14 UK data (as of 11 March 2021) show lower vaccination rates (among those eligible for vaccination) in Black African and Black Caribbean (58.8% and 68.7%, respectively), Bangladeshi (72.7%), and Pakistani (74%) ethnic groups compared with White British (91.3%), and lower vaccination rates in people who live in more deprived areas (most deprived 87%, least deprived 92.1%).15”

https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n1138

[Captainant 27653]

1 minute ago, justhookit said:

I am not going out of my way to ignore it and the other 364 days of the year are quite enough to dissect the gross incompetence of Trump and our government. I’m saying our messaging is not working.

I only quoted 1 paragraph but there’s more…..

“Vaccine hesitancy is a global problem. Surveys in 2021 report that between 50% and 60% of all respondents worldwide would be willing to receive a covid-19 vaccine, with wide variations across countries.1213 In the UK, surveys have found variation in willingness to have a vaccine between ethnic groups. The UK Household Longitudinal survey asked 12 035 participants (in November 2020) “how likely or unlikely would you be to take the vaccine?” Overall only 18% of respondents were hesitant (answering unlikely or very unlikely), in contrast with high levels of hesitancy in people of Black ethnicity (72%) followed by South Asians of Pakistani and Bangladeshi heritage (both 42%), and mixed ethnicities (32%), though levels of vaccine hesitancy were comparable with White people in respondents of Chinese ethnicity.14 UK data (as of 11 March 2021) show lower vaccination rates (among those eligible for vaccination) in Black African and Black Caribbean (58.8% and 68.7%, respectively), Bangladeshi (72.7%), and Pakistani (74%) ethnic groups compared with White British (91.3%), and lower vaccination rates in people who live in more deprived areas (most deprived 87%, least deprived 92.1%).15”

https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n1138

I don't understand this reflexive "well even IF people did the right thing, it wouldn't matter" that is becoming more characteristic of the """totally not political""" mindset. It's just another brand of whataboutism that's used to perpetuate the doublethink and protection of trump's COVID response. 

[Lurch 5930]

Crazy bad here in Jax

[justhookit 4191]

3 minutes ago, Captainant said:

I don't understand this reflexive "well even IF people did the right thing, it wouldn't matter" that is becoming more characteristic of the """totally not political""" mindset. It's just another brand of whataboutism that's used to perpetuate the doublethink and protection of trump's COVID response. 

Ok, whatever.

I’m outta here. Sure y’all will miss me.

[JimmyJames 12271]

3 hours ago, justhookit said:

Yeah I know and it’s frustrating as fuck. My hope I guess is that if it wasn’t so political a bunch more of the idiots would come around and take the shot. I mean one entire side of my family is enormously Republican and they’ve all been vaccinated. Let’s change the message to only stupid people don’t take the shot. Cut them off from healthcare. Whatever. I’m so done with this crap and it’s starting to feel like we are falling right back in to spring of 2020.

It is a fact that the greatest single indicator that you won’t get the vaccine is you voted for trump. Sorry if that doesn’t fit your supposed apolitical stance. 

[Doc Sam Beckett 5792]

Doctors are still prescribing hydroxy as part of the covid cocktail for treatment?? 

[YChang 3443]

30 minutes ago, justhookit said:

Ok, whatever.

I’m outta here. Sure y’all will miss me.

Hey, fwiw I really appreciated your thread in Daily Texan about Covid counts in Texas.

Speaking for myself, I think maybe you just have a higher tolerance on wanting to downplay (?) the politics of Covid then some of us here. I think for most of us, we’ve moved past the merely being frustrated with people who don’t vaccinated. And it’s hard to separate the politics from it because most that are unvaccinated in the US lean in the GOP/Trump way of thinking.

I don’t know… if it’s too late for those. But not being a “social deviant” is a factor for behavior change. So I do think as a tool… politicizing it and mentioning it loudly and often is a method to shame some of these folks. 

Edited August 1, 2021 by YChang

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

SIAP. Tax this guy's church; all he does is preach politics. I don't believe I heard the word "God" once in that clip. He may "not want their money" now, but if they pass on from not being vaccinated, he's going to find less in the offering plate.

 

[atomheartbevo 89648]

The problem is that a lot of these folks pushing back against vaccines and masks are True Believers, and it is hard to get through to True Believers, mental illness or not.

They will scream at you (at least one of my in-laws will) that you are being manipulated by the media, and government (once Biden was sworn in), big tech, the CDC, the entire healthcare industry, etc. and that you are being fed fake news.

Meanwhile, they are sending you links from dubious Facebook groups, Zerohedge, Tucker Carlson, etc.

And when you point out that they are literally spreading fake news from untrustworthy sources, they simply don't understand.  It's not just confirmation bias, although that's a huge part of it.

They simply cannot filter when they are being fed fake news.  They just can't.

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

1 minute ago, atomheartbevo said:

The problem is that a lot of these folks pushing back against vaccines and masks are True Believers, and it is hard to get through to True Believers, mental illness or not.

They will scream at you (at least one of my in-laws will) that you are being manipulated by the media, and government (once Biden was sworn in), big tech, the CDC, the entire healthcare industry, etc. and that you are being fed fake news.

Meanwhile, they are sending you links from dubious Facebook groups, Zerohedge, Tucker Carlson, etc.

And when you point out that they are literally spreading fake news from untrustworthy sources, they simply don't understand.  It's not just confirmation bias, although that's a huge part of it.

They simply cannot filter when they are being fed fake news.  They just can't.

That might be the congregation, but this "preacher" is traveling around the US "preaching" that the election was fraudulent and his twitter account is all politics. He's making money representing the Church of the Blessed Grifter, not his Global Vision Bible Church. His only vision is watching money being put in his  pocket.

[jimmyjazz 45898]

1 hour ago, justhookit said:

Ok, whatever.

I’m outta here. Sure y’all will miss me.

Don't be such a pussy.  If you truly think you have something to offer, say it.  Otherwise, leave.  Enough of the martyr complex.

[Francisco 2.0 32389]

39 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

They simply cannot filter when they are being fed fake news.  They just can't.

 

Or, they can.  They just choose not to.

 

 

[tx 3 putt 76905]

1 hour ago, Lurch said:

Crazy bad here in Jax
 

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

To add to the Florida news, they set a record with those hospitalizations.

 

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20395]

Canada now beginning to kick ass. Europe almost up there with U.S.

 

 

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

Shut up Jeanine. Sad thing is, people will buy this reaction/excuse.

 

[aggie08 21496]

...says the clearly vaccinated person taking pride in how many people she helped convince not take it.

America.

[atomheartbevo 89648]

13 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

To add to the Florida news, they set a record with those hospitalizations.

 

Good to see Republican politicians are letting the China virus walk all over them without putting up a fight.