CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk

[Serak The Preparer 3431]

1 hour ago, heso said:

Yep. I loved this line in the email announcement:

”We recognize that some families may prefer a full virtual option for the 2021-22 school year based on this decision. If you have questions about our virtual options or enrollment, please contact…”

I would be shocked to learn that a single one of them pulled their kid out of school over having to wear a mask. 

No, I'm sure this is just part of the group that @slorch knows is fighting to keep kids at home. After all, he said so several times, huge groups of people fighting tooth and nail to avoid sending their kids to school. Of course, when asked several times to indicate who any of these people are, there was no response, but by Jove I think you'll find them now!

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19100]

3 minutes ago, Jive Turkey said:

Trump cannot be happy.  ACB with a big FU to MAGA.

 

Color me pleasantly surprised.  Given the precedent, as problematic as I have read that it is (Not a Lawyer, so may be totally fucking wrong), I am worried that mandates will eventually be overturned.  Apparently Barrett isn't interested in being that person.  She probably doesn't want blood on her hands, either.

[NWBuck 8552]

15 minutes ago, Goredho said:

Had a phone call with someone I know from high school earlier today. He's unvaccinated and was apparently on his deathbed with covid, but seems to be on the other side of it now.  It went like this...

Him:   Man, I no shit thought I was going to die.

Me:  Yep, I mean, it has killed a shit ton of people.  I am glad you are on the mend.

Him:  NO, YOU DON'T GET IT.  I THOUGHT I WAS LITERALLY GOING TO DIE.

Me: ...

Him: ...

Me:  Were you vaccinated?

Him: God no, I wouldn't take that fucking poison.

Me: You know that if you had been vaccinated, you would have either not had symptoms at all or it would have been much less serious.

Him: You need to back off.  Right now.  I will not be coerced, bullied, cajoled, or shamed into putting anything in my body by anyone for any reason. I have no intent to take it so please do not broach the subject again.

Me: Ok.

Him:  ...

Me: ...

Him:  I almost fucking DIED.

Me:  Yep.  Hey, I need to get back to work.  Glad you are on the mend.

Him:  Yeah, thanks man.  Catch you later.

Me: Yep.  *click*

Yup. Same conversation with my brother, the "you've got to do your research!" genius who also decided to go to Florida to hang out with his wife's family (35-50 people, many over 70, probably only about 45% vaccinated, with maybe 59 teeth between all of them). The same genius who's a life-long 2 pack a day smoker who gets winded going up three flights of stairs.

Got Covid last week, haven't heard from him since other than some thumbs up emoji's over the past few days.

[Neonmoon 38129]

We’ve had vaccine mandates for over a hundred years. See Jacobson v Matthew’s. This is not new or controversial. Every fucking child that attends schools is required by law to get vaccinated for certain transmissible diseases, even the now large group of morons refusing to get vaccinated were ALL vaccinated as children. The only reason there is an uproar now is because one entire political party decided to politicize a pandemic. It’s fucking maddening. 

[Anastasis 23469]

8 minutes ago, Jive Turkey said:

Trump cannot be happy.  ACB with a big FU to MAGA.

 

 

 

bUT tHeoCraCy fRoM tHe BenCh!`1!`1

[Sawbonz 27546]

Douche

[Anastasis 23469]

2 hours ago, Asithappens said:

It's one of the three measures of central tendency, or at least that's what my freshman calc teacher said. 

Measures of central tendency are just different types of "averages", ways to characterize a distribution. In common usage, "average" is used to refer to the arithmetic mean, but technically there are many different types of "averages". It's terminology and pedantry. I always referred to these things as measures of central tendency and not "averages". I think that it was  @Huckleberry that actually brought this particular pedantry to my attention when this clip was put forth in the past, and I chose to enthusiastically embrace it. 

Edited August 12, 2021 by Anastasis

[HenryJames 66041]

[Doc Sam Beckett 5792]

DeSantis masking always brings the lulz

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Serak The Preparer said:

No, I'm sure this is just part of the group that @slorch knows is fighting to keep kids at home. After all, he said so several times, huge groups of people fighting tooth and nail to avoid sending their kids to school. Of course, when asked several times to indicate who any of these people are, there was no response, but by Jove I think you'll find them now!

You're right. I was wrong.

Everyone had in-person school in the Spring of 2020.   Nothing is at risk for Fall of 2020/ Spring 2021.

Carry the fuck on.

[jimmyjazz 45898]

5 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Measures of central tendency are just different types of "averages", ways to characterize a distribution. In common usage, "average" is used to refer to the arithmetic mean, but technically there are many different types of "averages". It's terminology and pedantry. I always referred to these things as measures of central tendency and not "averages". I think that it was  @Huckleberry that actually brought this particular pedantry to my attention when this clip was put forth in the past, and I chose to enthusiastically embrace it. 

While you are correct, I'll just go ahead and say I'm glad Carlin just went with the broadly accepted, almost accurate language when crafting the joke. 

"And now here's Tom with the weather."

 

Yes, I know that's Bill Hicks, not George Carlin.  I'm referring to the weather quote.

Look ma, no edits!

[Beau Vine 54211]

UTSA is going full online for at least the first three weeks.

[Born to Run 6569]

On a zoom for Anderson HS.

What a shit show the TEA and Abbot created.

No virtual option allowed. If you don't show up the first week in person, they drop you.
Even better, if you are exposed and symptomatic and have to quarantine for 10 days there is no way to make up in person portion of instruction.

[Bevo in VA 342]

34 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Douche

From the article:

Quote

According to DeSantis, the penalties against the superintendents will be on the "honor system." He said that it will be "on them" to cut their own pay.

 

Is this guy really that stupid?  No need to answer....

[Bookman 4639]

Hey remember all the retards who said that Covid talk would go away after the election?

[JimmyJames 12271]

2 hours ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

Abbot now trying to kill two Austin small businesses:

https://austin.eater.com/2021/8/12/22622221/austin-restaurants-cant-require-proof-of-vaccine-liquor-license-pulled-tabc

 

Texas republicans are nazis. There is no other explanation.

[Bookman 4639]

7 hours ago, Mo Horn said:

I will never understand.

You won't understand because it's difficult to put yourself in the shoes of someone who has difficulty thinking properly.

[JimmyJames 12271]

1 hour ago, Goredho said:

Had a phone call with someone I know from high school earlier today. He's unvaccinated and was apparently on his deathbed with covid, but seems to be on the other side of it now.  It went like this...

Him:   Man, I no shit thought I was going to die.

Me:  Yep, I mean, it has killed a shit ton of people.  I am glad you are on the mend.

Him:  NO, YOU DON'T GET IT.  I THOUGHT I WAS LITERALLY GOING TO DIE.

Me: ...

Him: ...

Me:  Were you vaccinated?

Him: God no, I wouldn't take that fucking poison.

Me: You know that if you had been vaccinated, you would have either not had symptoms at all or it would have been much less serious.

Him: You need to back off.  Right now.  I will not be coerced, bullied, cajoled, or shamed into putting anything in my body by anyone for any reason. I have no intent to take it so please do not broach the subject again.

Me: Ok.

Him:  ...

Me: ...

Him:  I almost fucking DIED.

Me:  Yep.  Hey, I need to get back to work.  Glad you are on the mend.

Him:  Yeah, thanks man.  Catch you later.

Me: Yep.  *click*

Never talk to that guy again. He’s a drain on society.

[Francisco 2.0 32389]

13 minutes ago, Bookman said:

Hey remember all the retards who said that Covid talk would go away after the election?

Well, you see, they meant the 2022 midterms.  

 

Edit:  And don't use the that word.  Kinda in poor taste, being 2021 and all.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 12, 2021 by Francisco 2.0

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

 

DEAR JEEBUS WHY DID YOU GIVE ME SHIT FOR BRAINS? YOUR BOY PRESSLEY!

 

[DDD Dad 14332]

Hey remember all the retards who said that Covid talk would go away after the election?

You mean Ted Cruz?

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

I'm uh, developing a habit.

 

 

 

[Biff Tannen 45673]

So we are organizing our fantasy football draft and the one person I would pick that would likely be a dotard supporter replied with this when told that everyone there will be vaccinated:

 

Quote

Great!!  I’m just curious, if you’re vaccinated what the fuck does it matter if somebody is not. You’re protected…

He was then summarily dressed down (in a polite, bedside manner type of way) by the dentist in our group.  That made me chuckle a bit (Seinfeld and all), but very glad he was able to explain it to dumbshit because I wouldn't have been able to be nearly as restrained.

[Francisco 2.0 32389]

We all know why Trump won't do a full-throated vaccine endorsement, but to read a story about the reasoning gives it more meaning:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/donald-trump-keeps-rejecting-pleas-from-allies-for-pro-vax-campaign?ref=home?ref=home

 

Quote

It’s been more than six months since Donald Trump left office and, despite pleas from multiple friends and advisers, the former president has kept refusing to mount anything resembling a real effort to get his supporters vaccinated.

As COVID-19 continues to rip through the United States, Trump has done little more than make sporadic gestures toward the vaccine, including when he said he’d “recommend” people get the shot during a Fox News interview, while underscoring at the same time that he respected people’s “freedoms” to not get vaccinated.

But Trump’s resistance toward truly pushing for people to get the vaccine hasn’t been from lack of trying from some of his allies.

 

Quote

According to four people who’ve independently spoken to Trump about a potential pro-vaccine campaign, the former president has shown little interest in tying his name to broader efforts to get people inoculated.

When asked why Trump hadn’t done more on vaccines, Stephen Moore—who previously advised Trump on economic and coronavirus-related policy—said he didn’t have a “good answer for that.”

 

Quote

Moore, a former top Trump surrogate, said that after he published an op-ed in The Hill late last month arguing that Trump should give a national primetime address with President Joe Biden urging his supporters and voters to get the shot, “especially because of the Delta variant,” Moore made sure to send the article to the former president.

“I know from a friend who works with Trump that they gave it to him…[and that it] got to his desk,” he added. “I think he would be well-advised to make a public statement and a speech [devoted to] really encouraging people to get vaccinated; I think it would influence people…It would be in his own political interest, as well as the nation’s interest.”

 

Spoiler

Whether Trump sees doing that as politically beneficial to himself, however, remains an open question—at best.

According to the four sources who spoke to The Daily Beast about their phone calls and in-person conversations since early this year with Trump or former first lady Melania, the suggestions have varied considerably.

Some have suggested teaming up with the Bidens, while others have told the former president that it would be an awful idea, both on pragmatic and political levels. Several have suggested Donald and Melania Trump star in public service announcements and others videos, such as those featuring highly visible conservative influencers. Others have pitched the former president on dedicating entire interviews and whole speeches to the topic, making appearances at related venues with doctors, prominent Republicans, or pro-vaccine evangelical leaders.

Some have recommended that Trump welcome vaccination drives at his ongoing series of political rallies, while some have kept their proposals as simple as telling Trump that his office and political operation should blast out reminders to get people and their families vaccinated against COVID-19.

Thus far, hardly any of these suggestions have gone anywhere, nor has anything remotely resembling a serious push from the ex-president come to pass. A Trump spokeswoman did not respond to emails seeking comment for this story.

This summer, some high-profile Trump confidants have made pro-vaccine pitches to GOP voters. Sarah Huckabee Sanders, Trump’s former White House press secretary, put out a July opinion piece titled, “The reasoning behind getting vaccinated.”

“Based on the advice of my doctor,” Sanders wrote, “I determined that the benefits of getting vaccinated outweighed any potential risks. I was also reassured after President Trump and his family were vaccinated. If getting vaccinated was safe enough for them, I felt it was safe enough for me.”

And early this month, Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC), a top Trump ally on Capitol Hill, told the Associated Press that he encouraged Trump to “speak up” and “to be aggressive and say, ‘Take the vaccine.’”

More than 400,000 Americans had died of coronavirus when Trump left office, and the death count has swelled to more than 600,000 since. But as Trump has settled into a post-presidency defined largely by prolonging his anti-democratic crusade and settling scores with Republicans who crossed him, the former president has privately dropped hints about why, exactly, he has been so derelict.

According to two of the sources who have spoken to Trump about this, he has occasionally referenced polling and other indicators—such as what he’s seen on TV—that show how the vaccines are unpopular with many of his supporters. This has left the impression with some of those close to Trump that he doesn’t want to push too hard on the subject, so as to not “piss off his base,” one of the two people said.

At other times in recent months, Trump has simply said he doesn’t feel he needs to do any “favors” for Biden, given how much Biden is “destroying” the country—and that if Biden wants to ask him to do something, the sitting president is welcome to ask, the sources recounted.

Although Trump has told unvaccinated supporters to get their coronavirus shots during a handful of public appearances—campaign-style rallies, fundraisers, media interviews—he’s also qualified his endorsement of the vaccines by emphasizing that the “freedoms” not to get it are important, too.

Trump even released a written statement last month sympathizing with anti-vaxxers because, according to Trump, "people are refusing to take the Vaccine because they don't trust [Biden’s] Administration, they don't trust the Election results, and they certainly don’t trust the Fake News, which is refusing to tell the Truth.”

In poll after poll this year, self-identified Republicans have been out of step with the mainstream of Americans on a number of public health issues related to the coronavirus pandemic, from attitudes towards mask requirements, to vaccine hesitancy, to blatant anti-vaccine posturing.

A Morning Consult poll published Wednesday showed approval for local government mask mandates in offices, gyms, and indoor dining areas enjoyed hovering in the low to mid 60 percent range among Americans overall. But the partisan breakdown shows that, despite majorities of independents and Democrats supporting mask mandates, most Republicans are still opposed to them.

The contrast is also reflected in vaccine uptake. Seventy-six percent of those who identify as Democrats or lean Democratic told Morning Consult pollsters they were fully vaccinated but that number shrunk to 62 percent for Republicans and those who lean towards the GOP.

A poll conducted by Monmouth University in late July found that Republicans make up the bulk of those who are staunchly opposed to the vaccine rather than the merely hesitant or procrastinating. Seventeen percent of respondents made up the hardcore of respondents who said they will “likely will never get the vaccine” if they can avoid it. Republicans make up the vast majority of those hardcore refusals, accounting for 70 percent of the “never” respondents compared to just six percent for Democrats.

Despite his inaction, this is a situation that Trump himself has acknowledged is a problem among conservatives—and he even acknowledged that it could be a huge problem as early as September, before he lost the 2020 presidential contest.

“It was a glancing conversation in the Oval Office in September, in between meetings, and I mentioned how vaccine hesitancy was likely going to be a big problem, especially among Republicans and Trump supporters,” Michael Caputo, a former Trump campaign adviser who later served as the assistant secretary of public affairs at the Department of Health and Human Services under Trump, said in an interview in March. “And he said, ‘Yes, I understand, and it’s a problem.’”

Caputo added that he’d been told Trump had other conversations after he left the administration. “We started getting more and more suspicious of [anti-vaccine sentiment on the right] as I left,” Caputo said. “We were talking amongst ourselves in HHS in August, saying that it was ironic that the most vaccine-hesitant among us were our friends, our allies. And we still face that question.”

In April, Caputo told CNN he visited Trump at Mar-a-Lago just weeks before, adding that they “spoke about vaccine hesitancy and what can be done about it.”

But as 2021 went on, Republican hostility toward the COVID vaccines has been reinforced and stoked by some of the biggest names in right-wing media and MAGA-land.

On Fox News, Laura Ingraham has been among the most frequent critics of COVID-19 vaccines on the network, according to a Media Matters study. Primetime host Tucker Carlson has also wrongly declared to his audience that “maybe the vaccine doesn’t work” and has recklessly suggested that vaccines are killing dozens of people a day.

This phenomenon, of course, did not spring out of nowhere.

For one, a mid-2016 study conducted by Washington State University for The Daily Beast found that anti-vaxxer respondents frequently said they believed Trump shared their views, compared to Democrats, who were much more pro-vaccine. The correlation pointed to a relatively recent shift in partisan attitudes towards vaccines, as polling in the late 2000s and early 2010s didn’t show a strong correlation between partisan affiliation and attitudes towards vaccination.

As for the current Trump fundraising operation, there isn’t much shyness when it comes to hitting up donors and supporters with messages encouraging vaccine “freedom.” 

On Wednesday afternoon, Team Trump texted supporters asking, “Why haven’t you claimed your ‘FREEDOM PASSPORT’ shirt from President Trump?”

The link sends users to a page from WinRed, the Republican fundraising platform, offering a white T-shirt emblazoned with the American flag and the words “THIS IS MY FREEDOM PASSPORT” for a $45 donation.

While the page text itself doesn’t mention vaccines, metadata tags in the page’s html code instruct social media platforms to apply a more direct headline when the link is posted to Facebook or Twitter: “FREEDOM PASSPORTS > VACCINE PASSPORTS.”

 

 

Edited August 13, 2021 by Francisco 2.0

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19100]

13 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

We all know why Trump won't do a full-throated vaccine endorsement, but to read a story about the reasoning gives it more meaning:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/donald-trump-keeps-rejecting-pleas-from-allies-for-pro-vax-campaign?ref=home?ref=home

 

 

 

 

  Hide contents

Whether Trump sees doing that as politically beneficial to himself, however, remains an open question—at best.

According to the four sources who spoke to The Daily Beast about their phone calls and in-person conversations since early this year with Trump or former first lady Melania, the suggestions have varied considerably.

Some have suggested teaming up with the Bidens, while others have told the former president that it would be an awful idea, both on pragmatic and political levels. Several have suggested Donald and Melania Trump star in public service announcements and others videos, such as those featuring highly visible conservative influencers. Others have pitched the former president on dedicating entire interviews and whole speeches to the topic, making appearances at related venues with doctors, prominent Republicans, or pro-vaccine evangelical leaders.

Some have recommended that Trump welcome vaccination drives at his ongoing series of political rallies, while some have kept their proposals as simple as telling Trump that his office and political operation should blast out reminders to get people and their families vaccinated against COVID-19.

Thus far, hardly any of these suggestions have gone anywhere, nor has anything remotely resembling a serious push from the ex-president come to pass. A Trump spokeswoman did not respond to emails seeking comment for this story.

This summer, some high-profile Trump confidants have made pro-vaccine pitches to GOP voters. Sarah Huckabee Sanders, Trump’s former White House press secretary, put out a July opinion piece titled, “The reasoning behind getting vaccinated.”

“Based on the advice of my doctor,” Sanders wrote, “I determined that the benefits of getting vaccinated outweighed any potential risks. I was also reassured after President Trump and his family were vaccinated. If getting vaccinated was safe enough for them, I felt it was safe enough for me.”

And early this month, Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC), a top Trump ally on Capitol Hill, told the Associated Press that he encouraged Trump to “speak up” and “to be aggressive and say, ‘Take the vaccine.’”

More than 400,000 Americans had died of coronavirus when Trump left office, and the death count has swelled to more than 600,000 since. But as Trump has settled into a post-presidency defined largely by prolonging his anti-democratic crusade and settling scores with Republicans who crossed him, the former president has privately dropped hints about why, exactly, he has been so derelict.

According to two of the sources who have spoken to Trump about this, he has occasionally referenced polling and other indicators—such as what he’s seen on TV—that show how the vaccines are unpopular with many of his supporters. This has left the impression with some of those close to Trump that he doesn’t want to push too hard on the subject, so as to not “piss off his base,” one of the two people said.

At other times in recent months, Trump has simply said he doesn’t feel he needs to do any “favors” for Biden, given how much Biden is “destroying” the country—and that if Biden wants to ask him to do something, the sitting president is welcome to ask, the sources recounted.

Although Trump has told unvaccinated supporters to get their coronavirus shots during a handful of public appearances—campaign-style rallies, fundraisers, media interviews—he’s also qualified his endorsement of the vaccines by emphasizing that the “freedoms” not to get it are important, too.

Trump even released a written statement last month sympathizing with anti-vaxxers because, according to Trump, "people are refusing to take the Vaccine because they don't trust [Biden’s] Administration, they don't trust the Election results, and they certainly don’t trust the Fake News, which is refusing to tell the Truth.”

In poll after poll this year, self-identified Republicans have been out of step with the mainstream of Americans on a number of public health issues related to the coronavirus pandemic, from attitudes towards mask requirements, to vaccine hesitancy, to blatant anti-vaccine posturing.

A Morning Consult poll published Wednesday showed approval for local government mask mandates in offices, gyms, and indoor dining areas enjoyed hovering in the low to mid 60 percent range among Americans overall. But the partisan breakdown shows that, despite majorities of independents and Democrats supporting mask mandates, most Republicans are still opposed to them.

The contrast is also reflected in vaccine uptake. Seventy-six percent of those who identify as Democrats or lean Democratic told Morning Consult pollsters they were fully vaccinated but that number shrunk to 62 percent for Republicans and those who lean towards the GOP.

A poll conducted by Monmouth University in late July found that Republicans make up the bulk of those who are staunchly opposed to the vaccine rather than the merely hesitant or procrastinating. Seventeen percent of respondents made up the hardcore of respondents who said they will “likely will never get the vaccine” if they can avoid it. Republicans make up the vast majority of those hardcore refusals, accounting for 70 percent of the “never” respondents compared to just six percent for Democrats.

Despite his inaction, this is a situation that Trump himself has acknowledged is a problem among conservatives—and he even acknowledged that it could be a huge problem as early as September, before he lost the 2020 presidential contest.

“It was a glancing conversation in the Oval Office in September, in between meetings, and I mentioned how vaccine hesitancy was likely going to be a big problem, especially among Republicans and Trump supporters,” Michael Caputo, a former Trump campaign adviser who later served as the assistant secretary of public affairs at the Department of Health and Human Services under Trump, said in an interview in March. “And he said, ‘Yes, I understand, and it’s a problem.’”

Caputo added that he’d been told Trump had other conversations after he left the administration. “We started getting more and more suspicious of [anti-vaccine sentiment on the right] as I left,” Caputo said. “We were talking amongst ourselves in HHS in August, saying that it was ironic that the most vaccine-hesitant among us were our friends, our allies. And we still face that question.”

In April, Caputo told CNN he visited Trump at Mar-a-Lago just weeks before, adding that they “spoke about vaccine hesitancy and what can be done about it.”

But as 2021 went on, Republican hostility toward the COVID vaccines has been reinforced and stoked by some of the biggest names in right-wing media and MAGA-land.

On Fox News, Laura Ingraham has been among the most frequent critics of COVID-19 vaccines on the network, according to a Media Matters study. Primetime host Tucker Carlson has also wrongly declared to his audience that “maybe the vaccine doesn’t work” and has recklessly suggested that vaccines are killing dozens of people a day.

This phenomenon, of course, did not spring out of nowhere.

For one, a mid-2016 study conducted by Washington State University for The Daily Beast found that anti-vaxxer respondents frequently said they believed Trump shared their views, compared to Democrats, who were much more pro-vaccine. The correlation pointed to a relatively recent shift in partisan attitudes towards vaccines, as polling in the late 2000s and early 2010s didn’t show a strong correlation between partisan affiliation and attitudes towards vaccination.

As for the current Trump fundraising operation, there isn’t much shyness when it comes to hitting up donors and supporters with messages encouraging vaccine “freedom.” 

On Wednesday afternoon, Team Trump texted supporters asking, “Why haven’t you claimed your ‘FREEDOM PASSPORT’ shirt from President Trump?”

The link sends users to a page from WinRed, the Republican fundraising platform, offering a white T-shirt emblazoned with the American flag and the words “THIS IS MY FREEDOM PASSPORT” for a $45 donation.

While the page text itself doesn’t mention vaccines, metadata tags in the page’s html code instruct social media platforms to apply a more direct headline when the link is posted to Facebook or Twitter: “FREEDOM PASSPORTS > VACCINE PASSPORTS.”

 

 

Aghhhh, they are grifting with a T-Shirt.  Damn it!

[JimmyJames 12271]

18 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

We all know why Trump won't do a full-throated vaccine endorsement, but to read a story about the reasoning gives it more meaning:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/donald-trump-keeps-rejecting-pleas-from-allies-for-pro-vax-campaign?ref=home?ref=home

 

 

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Whether Trump sees doing that as politically beneficial to himself, however, remains an open question—at best.

According to the four sources who spoke to The Daily Beast about their phone calls and in-person conversations since early this year with Trump or former first lady Melania, the suggestions have varied considerably.

Some have suggested teaming up with the Bidens, while others have told the former president that it would be an awful idea, both on pragmatic and political levels. Several have suggested Donald and Melania Trump star in public service announcements and others videos, such as those featuring highly visible conservative influencers. Others have pitched the former president on dedicating entire interviews and whole speeches to the topic, making appearances at related venues with doctors, prominent Republicans, or pro-vaccine evangelical leaders.

Some have recommended that Trump welcome vaccination drives at his ongoing series of political rallies, while some have kept their proposals as simple as telling Trump that his office and political operation should blast out reminders to get people and their families vaccinated against COVID-19.

Thus far, hardly any of these suggestions have gone anywhere, nor has anything remotely resembling a serious push from the ex-president come to pass. A Trump spokeswoman did not respond to emails seeking comment for this story.

This summer, some high-profile Trump confidants have made pro-vaccine pitches to GOP voters. Sarah Huckabee Sanders, Trump’s former White House press secretary, put out a July opinion piece titled, “The reasoning behind getting vaccinated.”

“Based on the advice of my doctor,” Sanders wrote, “I determined that the benefits of getting vaccinated outweighed any potential risks. I was also reassured after President Trump and his family were vaccinated. If getting vaccinated was safe enough for them, I felt it was safe enough for me.”

And early this month, Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC), a top Trump ally on Capitol Hill, told the Associated Press that he encouraged Trump to “speak up” and “to be aggressive and say, ‘Take the vaccine.’”

More than 400,000 Americans had died of coronavirus when Trump left office, and the death count has swelled to more than 600,000 since. But as Trump has settled into a post-presidency defined largely by prolonging his anti-democratic crusade and settling scores with Republicans who crossed him, the former president has privately dropped hints about why, exactly, he has been so derelict.

According to two of the sources who have spoken to Trump about this, he has occasionally referenced polling and other indicators—such as what he’s seen on TV—that show how the vaccines are unpopular with many of his supporters. This has left the impression with some of those close to Trump that he doesn’t want to push too hard on the subject, so as to not “piss off his base,” one of the two people said.

At other times in recent months, Trump has simply said he doesn’t feel he needs to do any “favors” for Biden, given how much Biden is “destroying” the country—and that if Biden wants to ask him to do something, the sitting president is welcome to ask, the sources recounted.

Although Trump has told unvaccinated supporters to get their coronavirus shots during a handful of public appearances—campaign-style rallies, fundraisers, media interviews—he’s also qualified his endorsement of the vaccines by emphasizing that the “freedoms” not to get it are important, too.

Trump even released a written statement last month sympathizing with anti-vaxxers because, according to Trump, "people are refusing to take the Vaccine because they don't trust [Biden’s] Administration, they don't trust the Election results, and they certainly don’t trust the Fake News, which is refusing to tell the Truth.”

In poll after poll this year, self-identified Republicans have been out of step with the mainstream of Americans on a number of public health issues related to the coronavirus pandemic, from attitudes towards mask requirements, to vaccine hesitancy, to blatant anti-vaccine posturing.

A Morning Consult poll published Wednesday showed approval for local government mask mandates in offices, gyms, and indoor dining areas enjoyed hovering in the low to mid 60 percent range among Americans overall. But the partisan breakdown shows that, despite majorities of independents and Democrats supporting mask mandates, most Republicans are still opposed to them.

The contrast is also reflected in vaccine uptake. Seventy-six percent of those who identify as Democrats or lean Democratic told Morning Consult pollsters they were fully vaccinated but that number shrunk to 62 percent for Republicans and those who lean towards the GOP.

A poll conducted by Monmouth University in late July found that Republicans make up the bulk of those who are staunchly opposed to the vaccine rather than the merely hesitant or procrastinating. Seventeen percent of respondents made up the hardcore of respondents who said they will “likely will never get the vaccine” if they can avoid it. Republicans make up the vast majority of those hardcore refusals, accounting for 70 percent of the “never” respondents compared to just six percent for Democrats.

Despite his inaction, this is a situation that Trump himself has acknowledged is a problem among conservatives—and he even acknowledged that it could be a huge problem as early as September, before he lost the 2020 presidential contest.

“It was a glancing conversation in the Oval Office in September, in between meetings, and I mentioned how vaccine hesitancy was likely going to be a big problem, especially among Republicans and Trump supporters,” Michael Caputo, a former Trump campaign adviser who later served as the assistant secretary of public affairs at the Department of Health and Human Services under Trump, said in an interview in March. “And he said, ‘Yes, I understand, and it’s a problem.’”

Caputo added that he’d been told Trump had other conversations after he left the administration. “We started getting more and more suspicious of [anti-vaccine sentiment on the right] as I left,” Caputo said. “We were talking amongst ourselves in HHS in August, saying that it was ironic that the most vaccine-hesitant among us were our friends, our allies. And we still face that question.”

In April, Caputo told CNN he visited Trump at Mar-a-Lago just weeks before, adding that they “spoke about vaccine hesitancy and what can be done about it.”

But as 2021 went on, Republican hostility toward the COVID vaccines has been reinforced and stoked by some of the biggest names in right-wing media and MAGA-land.

On Fox News, Laura Ingraham has been among the most frequent critics of COVID-19 vaccines on the network, according to a Media Matters study. Primetime host Tucker Carlson has also wrongly declared to his audience that “maybe the vaccine doesn’t work” and has recklessly suggested that vaccines are killing dozens of people a day.

This phenomenon, of course, did not spring out of nowhere.

For one, a mid-2016 study conducted by Washington State University for The Daily Beast found that anti-vaxxer respondents frequently said they believed Trump shared their views, compared to Democrats, who were much more pro-vaccine. The correlation pointed to a relatively recent shift in partisan attitudes towards vaccines, as polling in the late 2000s and early 2010s didn’t show a strong correlation between partisan affiliation and attitudes towards vaccination.

As for the current Trump fundraising operation, there isn’t much shyness when it comes to hitting up donors and supporters with messages encouraging vaccine “freedom.” 

On Wednesday afternoon, Team Trump texted supporters asking, “Why haven’t you claimed your ‘FREEDOM PASSPORT’ shirt from President Trump?”

The link sends users to a page from WinRed, the Republican fundraising platform, offering a white T-shirt emblazoned with the American flag and the words “THIS IS MY FREEDOM PASSPORT” for a $45 donation.

While the page text itself doesn’t mention vaccines, metadata tags in the page’s html code instruct social media platforms to apply a more direct headline when the link is posted to Facebook or Twitter: “FREEDOM PASSPORTS > VACCINE PASSPORTS.”

 

 

Lol. Trump isn’t gonna tell his supporters to get the vaccine because he doesn’t given one shit about them and if they die. He’s the most narcissistic asshole who ever lived. He had to be hospitalized due to Covid and when he got out, told everyone not to worry about it and to just get on with their lives.

[lmao 178]

2 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

While you are correct, I'll just go ahead and say I'm glad Carlin just went with the broadly accepted, almost accurate language when crafting the joke. 

"And now here's Tom with the weather."

 

Yes, I know that's Bill Hicks, not George Carlin.  I'm referring to the weather quote.

Look ma, no edits!

I wonder how Carlin, Hicks, or even Patrice would critique where we're at today. 

[conVINCEd 21469]

9 minutes ago, lmao said:

I wonder how Carlin, Hicks, or even Patrice would critique where we're at today. 

I would pay a large sum of money to watch a Carlin stand up routine right now.

[Pods 7552]

Cross-posted from DT

Interesting article in pre-print (not yet peer reviewed) from the Mayo Clinic comparing Pfizer and Moderna and how they fare over time, including against Delta. It's not peer reviewed yet, but it's also the Mayo Clinic, so I've got a reasonable level of confidence in it. It's important information that's been asked for a lot on these threads, so I'm going to break it down.

Remember though, there is a chance the study won't get published, or will be published with revisions.  

This post is going to be a lot of words, but there's a lot to unpack here. Even the TL:DR is long.

 

TL:DR Both mRNA vaccines are still highly effective against ICU visits and deaths at 6 months. There were no recorded deaths in this group for either vaccine in this study. Pfizer declined hard in July against infections and less against hospitalizations, but continues to prevent ICU visits and deaths at the same rate as Moderna. Pfizer is less effective against Delta than Alpha. 

As of July, Moderna confers a 50% risk reduction for overall infection over Pfizer. In Florida, it's a 60% reduction.

There is no statistical difference in ICU visits and no deaths for either vaccine.

Risks are still low overall for fully vaccinated people of either vaccine.  The number of breakthroughs is still very low at 326 total so far. 

 

The study ran until July 29, so it does include Delta taking over. Patients from Arizona, Florida, Iowa, Minnesota, and Wisconsin. Not a great cross-section of America, but what we have for now.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.06.21261707v2

 

Quote

43,895 mRNA-1273-vaccinated individuals, 35,902 were fully vaccinated.     43,895 BNT162b2-vaccinated individuals, 37,573 were fully vaccinated

Breakthroughs were rare, with twice as many occurring in the Pfizer cohort.  

Quote

breakthrough infections n = 106 for Moderna; n = 220 for Pfizer

 

Quote

From January 2021 until July 2021

Infections 

Moderna-: 86%, 95%CI: 81-90.6%      Pfizer: 76%, 95%CI: 69-81%)

 

Hospitalizations

Moderna: 91.6%, 95% CI: 81-97%        Pfizer: 85%, 95% CI: 73-93%

 

ICU admissions

Moderna: 93.3%, 95% CI: 57-99.8%  Pfizer: 87%, 95% CI:46-98.6%, p=1.2×10−3

 

No deaths for either cohort. 

 

They noticed the vaccine effectiveness was declining in April 2021 from Moderna-93% and Pfizer-86% effective to 86% and 76% respectively. So they started collecting data comparing the vaccines against one another in Feb 2021. 

 

Quote

These estimates of effectiveness against infection (86% and 76%) were lower than those that we previously observed in the Mayo Clinic Health System through April 20, 2021 (Moderna: 93.3%, 95% CI: 85.7-97.4%; Pfizer: 86.1%, 95% CI: 82.4-89.1%).6 We thus analyzed the effectiveness of full vaccination longitudinally on a monthly basis starting in February 2021 

 

July arrived and so did Delta. 

 

Quote

Notably, the Delta variant prevalence in Minnesota increased from 0.7% in May to over 70% in July whereas the Alpha variant prevalence decreased from 85% to 13% over the same time period. 

 

They noticed a much bigger decline, especially for Pfizer, correlated with Delta's arrival in force.  Correlation doesn't necessarily imply causation and they can't yet say if the increased infections are due to Delta evading the vaccine, or declining immunity, though they do show that Pfizer is more effective against Alpha than it is against Delta. 

 

July 2021 effectiveness against infection

 

Quote

Moderna: 76%, 95% CI: 58-87%     Pfizer: 42%, 95% CI: 13-62%

 

Quote

95% confidence intervals of the estimates for effectiveness against infection did not overlap (Moderna: 81-90.6%; Pfizer: 69-81%) 

 

 

July comparison

Quote

In most states, individuals vaccinated with Moderna were less likely to experience breakthrough infections over the duration of the study period (IRRFlorida: 0.42, 95% CI: 0.28-0.62; IRRWisconsin: 0.52, 95% CI: 0.26-1.0; IRRArizona: 0.39, 95% CI: 0.15-0.92; IRRIowa: 0.0, 95% CI: 0.0-1.6) (Table 5). Considering all states together, mRNA-1273 conferred a two-fold risk reduction against breakthrough infection compared to Pfizer (IRR = 0.50, 95% CI: 0.39-0.64)

 

They speculate the same reasons for Moderna being more effective that have been speculated by myself and others on here (larger doses and longer dosing interval), but also note the lipids used to coat the spike protein are different.

Unfortunately, they didn't analyze date of vaccination, so it's not clear if it's waning immunity, or Delta, or something else. I think it's likely it's both, but that's my own opinion. 

 

Quote

Finally, while we did observe a recent reduction in vaccine effectiveness in July, we did not analyze the risk of infection relative to the date of vaccination. The reduced effectiveness could be due to waning immunity over time, the dynamic landscape of SARS-CoV-2 variants, or other factors that were not considered here.

 

They do find that Pfizer is less effective at preventing symptomatic infection against Delta, than it was against Alpha, though still highly effective. 

 

Quote

We observed a pronounced reduction in the effectiveness of Pfizer coinciding with the surging prevalence of the Delta variant in the United States, but this temporal association does not imply causality, and there are likely several factors contributing to changes in vaccine effectiveness over time. Consistent with our findings, a previous test-negative case-control study found that full vaccination with Pfizer was less effective in preventing symptomatic infection with the Delta variant (88.0%, 95% CI: 85-90.1%) than with the Alpha variant (93.7%, 95% CI: 91.6-95.3%), although it was highly effective against both.17

 

[Biff Tannen 45673]

2 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

So we are organizing our fantasy football draft and the one person I would pick that would likely be a dotard supporter replied with this when told that everyone there will be vaccinated:

 

He was then summarily dressed down (in a polite, bedside manner type of way) by the dentist in our group.  That made me chuckle a bit (Seinfeld and all), but very glad he was able to explain it to dumbshit because I wouldn't have been able to be nearly as restrained.

Ha, when trumpkin tried to pipe up with vaccine "info" he knew, the dentist couldn't take it anymore.

Quote

If you really want me to explain to you why about a dozen things you just said are absolute horseshit, find me at the draft.  I’ve hit my quota for today.

 

[Pods 7552]

Edit to my previous post at the bottom, they said their results are consistent with previous findings that Pfizer is less effective against Delta than Alpha. They weren't looking at that in this study. 

[Francisco 2.0 32389]

 

 

[henrygandorf 29189]

2 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

So we are organizing our fantasy football draft and the one person I would pick that would likely be a dotard supporter replied with this when told that everyone there will be vaccinated:

Great!!  I’m just curious, if you’re vaccinated what the fuck does it matter if somebody is not. You’re protected…

He was then summarily dressed down (in a polite, bedside manner type of way) by the dentist in our group.  That made me chuckle a bit (Seinfeld and all), but very glad he was able to explain it to dumbshit because I wouldn't have been able to be nearly as restrained.

i'm sure this type of thing has been posted several times, and you likely don't need my help with metaphors, but my personal favorite response to this exact type of nonsense is, "what do you care if i drive drunk?  your seatbelt and airbags work fine, right?  you're protected."

[C-Man 27214]

SIAP, but a group of people were protesting outside Clay Jenkins’ Park Cities home this evening. I believe it was organized by that awful Park Cities Parents Unite! group. WFAA reported the protesters were chanting, “I can’t breathe.”

Fucking disgusting.

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

1 hour ago, Pods said:

Cross-posted from DT

Interesting article in pre-print (not yet peer reviewed) from the Mayo Clinic comparing Pfizer and Moderna and how they fare over time, including against Delta. It's not peer reviewed yet, but it's also the Mayo Clinic, so I've got a reasonable level of confidence in it. It's important information that's been asked for a lot on these threads, so I'm going to break it down.

Remember though, there is a chance the study won't get published, or will be published with revisions.  

This post is going to be a lot of words, but there's a lot to unpack here. Even the TL:DR is long.

 

TL:DR Both mRNA vaccines are still highly effective against ICU visits and deaths at 6 months. There were no recorded deaths in this group for either vaccine in this study. Pfizer declined hard in July against infections and less against hospitalizations, but continues to prevent ICU visits and deaths at the same rate as Moderna. Pfizer is less effective against Delta than Alpha. 

As of July, Moderna confers a 50% risk reduction for overall infection over Pfizer. In Florida, it's a 60% reduction.

There is no statistical difference in ICU visits and no deaths for either vaccine.

Risks are still low overall for fully vaccinated people of either vaccine.  The number of breakthroughs is still very low at 326 total so far. 

 

The study ran until July 29, so it does include Delta taking over. Patients from Arizona, Florida, Iowa, Minnesota, and Wisconsin. Not a great cross-section of America, but what we have for now.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.06.21261707v2

 

Breakthroughs were rare, with twice as many occurring in the Pfizer cohort.  

 

 

They noticed the vaccine effectiveness was declining in April 2021 from Moderna-93% and Pfizer-86% effective to 86% and 76% respectively. So they started collecting data comparing the vaccines against one another in Feb 2021. 

 

 

July arrived and so did Delta. 

 

 

They noticed a much bigger decline, especially for Pfizer, correlated with Delta's arrival in force.  Correlation doesn't necessarily imply causation and they can't yet say if the increased infections are due to Delta evading the vaccine, or declining immunity, though they do show that Pfizer is more effective against Alpha than it is against Delta. 

 

July 2021 effectiveness against infection

 

 

 

 

July comparison

 

They speculate the same reasons for Moderna being more effective that have been speculated by myself and others on here (larger doses and longer dosing interval), but also note the lipids used to coat the spike protein are different.

Unfortunately, they didn't analyze date of vaccination, so it's not clear if it's waning immunity, or Delta, or something else. I think it's likely it's both, but that's my own opinion. 

 

 

They do find that Pfizer is less effective at preventing symptomatic infection against Delta, than it was against Alpha, though still highly effective. 

 

 

I “boosted” my J&J and with a Moderna shot a few weeks ago.  I got auto registered for the second shot.  Between this and the stories indicating everyone is going to wind up getting a booster I currently think I will keep that appointment.

[RDCanecutter 26411]

4 hours ago, Jive Turkey said:

Trump cannot be happy.  ACB with a big FU to MAGA.

 

"She acted alone and gave no explanation."

I'll take "What happens if somebody has firing synapses, and gets to be a Supreme Court Judge for life no matter what Trumpkins think?" Alex.

[conVINCEd 21469]

6 minutes ago, C-Man said:

SIAP, but a group of people were protesting outside Clay Jenkins’ Park Cities home this evening. I believe it was organized by that awful Park Cities Parents Unite! group. WFAA reported the protesters were chanting, “I can’t breathe.”

Fucking disgusting.

My wife taught in the Park Cities for a long time, and I’m not sure I ever met a parent of one of her students that would do such a thing, and I broke bread with plenty of them.  The ones I still follow on social media because I am too lazy to delete people I don’t really interact with anymore are woke moms with dads who go along to get along.  A little subtle racism? Sure.  But the education level there prevents full on stupidity in my experience.  I’m sure there are plenty of HP olds who are doing what they are told to do via Facebook, but the ones with school age kids are generally reasonable, well-educated human beings.  It’s also possible that the wife didn’t accept dinner invitations from the loons.

[cactusflinthead 27598]

I knew he'd have something to say about the recent school board meeting in Tennessee.

Nsiap

How could I pass up Buttercream in a hat and housecoat?

 

 

Edited August 13, 2021 by cactusflinthead

[RDCanecutter 26411]

2 hours ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

I'm uh, developing a habit.

 

 

 

Hope she makes it. I don't have it in me to get mad at telenovela stars who rush into a room in a push-up bra, spewing a stream of loud inaccurate invective, who then throw a vase at your dead father's portrait while daring you to jump up, grab them, and crush them close in your arms. YOUR BROTHER PABLO WOULD HAVE DONE THAT. If you were only half the man he was.

[jimmyjazz 45898]

9 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

I knew he'd have something to say about the recent school board meeting in Tennessee.

Nsiap

 

He's nearing the breaking point, and I don't blame him.  Every video gets just a little more real.  Smart dude.

[RDCanecutter 26411]

2 hours ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Aghhhh, they are grifting with a T-Shirt.  Damn it!

If it's any consolation, they probably won't enjoy life once they become T-Shirt Artist Rich.

[brakeman 28359]

On 8/11/2021 at 7:22 PM, RomaVicta said:

I know you know it, but it's such irony that the "champions of local rule" are being smacked in the nose by this constituency.

These local men and women are getting the latest information later than your national boys and likely later than the governor. They see serious shit that the hear-and-see-no-evil (they damn sure speak it, though) leaders of the GQP Death Cult tries to sit on.

Local government including school boards see the astoundingly large writing on the wall. We're looking at a more dangerous plague that has likely (according a virologist on CNN) already spawned other variants of unknown lethality.

State government is the last ditch of the traitors as they desperately cling to power. This mutiny by local government is an unforeseen ally to the republic. Local GOPs and Dems would just as soon not see the young and the very young killed and possibly maimed by the disease. These local guys don't get the big dollars that the big boys in DC or Austin get.

Local guys are like unpaid interns at the Soylent Corporation. Thanks but no thanks to the office and perqs if it means being party to murder.

I find this heartening. Somebody in government other than Dems in DC is actually doing something. Local yokels show up to stamp their feet and promise God's punishment, but the local magistrates and medical establishment won't be stopped.

This is a heroic tale. We'll see if it's the Alamo or San Jacinto.

 

not to take us off topic but both were pretty bad outcomes.

the alamo, we lost a battle to remain a slave trading institution.

the battle at  san jacinto, we let a local terrorist go because he was a mason.

[Pods 7552]

26 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

I “boosted” my J&J and with a Moderna shot a few weeks ago.  I got auto registered for the second shot.  Between this and the stories indicating everyone is going to wind up getting a booster I currently think I will keep that appointment.

Not a doctor disclaimer added, but I would expect you likely have pretty good protection. The J&J data out of South Africa was decent against Alpha and Beta. The booster data I've seen for the mRNA vaccines shows a substantial immune response against Delta. I haven't seen any data on boosters with J&J, but will keep my eyes peeled and post if I do.   

Two things to think about. 1) There may be a substantial increased immune response if you delay the second shot. There's evidence emerging that this is the case for mRNA. It may, or may not apply here. 2) You may not need one for 6-8 months and getting the second one now may limit when you can take the next booster.  

I'm not sure what I'd do personally, if I was in your shoes, but I would likely wait until a little more data comes in depending on my viral exposure. If you are healthy with no co-morbidities and reasonably confident you can keep from getting infected for a few weeks, I'd wait and see if some more consensus emerges. 

[brakeman 28359]

4 hours ago, HenryJames said:

I think he will figure it out after a long  long trial. 

[Anastasis 23469]

2 minutes ago, Pods said:

I'm not sure what I'd do personally, if I was in your shoes, but I would likely wait until a little more data comes in depending on my viral exposure. If you are healthy with no co-morbidities and reasonably confident you can keep from getting infected for a few weeks, I'd wait and see if some more consensus emerges. 

If I had a prime JNJ shot and was 2 weeks post delayed second dose mRNA shot I would be feeling pretty high on the cotton right about now. No need for third shot at this point, imo.  I would not seek it out, but if I was already in line for a shot I might just be inclined to fuck around and find out. 

[Pods 7552]

2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

If I had a prime JNJ shot and was 2 weeks post delayed second dose mRNA shot I would be feeling pretty high on the cotton right about now. No need for third shot at this point, imo.  I would not seek it out, but if I was already in line for a shot I might just be inclined to fuck around and find out. 

I wouldn't cancel it just yet for sure. When is the appointment @MC Fresh Breath? 

[jimmyjazz 45898]

So the FDA has authorized a 3rd dose of Pfizer or Moderna for certain individuals.  I'm curious to see what proof is required to qualify?

Dose Tres

 

Spoiler

The Food and Drug Administration on Thursday authorized third doses of Pfizer-BioNTech’s and Moderna’s coronavirus vaccines for some people with weakened immune systems, giving physicians more leeway to protect those who did not respond enough to an initial series of shots.

The authorization, in the form of updates to the existing emergency use authorizations for the two vaccines, applies to people who received solid organ transplants and others with similarly compromised immune systems, the F.D.A. said.

The agency’s decision came a day before the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s independent advisory committee was set to consider and vote on whether to recommend the move. The committee is likely to give its approval, and the C.D.C. would follow with its own endorsement of the additional doses.

“The F.D.A. is especially cognizant that immunocompromised people are particularly at risk for severe disease,” Dr. Janet Woodcock, the acting F.D.A. commissioner, said in a statement. “After a thorough review of the available data, the F.D.A. determined that this small, vulnerable group may benefit from a third dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna Vaccines.”

The authorization of the third doses kicks off what promises to be a busy next stretch for federal vaccine regulators — and a new phase of the nation’s inoculation drive. By the start of next month, the agency is expected to grant full approval to Pfizer-BioNTech’s vaccine. That will most likely prompt a wave of vaccination mandates from companies and organizations that waited to require vaccination until the F.D.A. fully cleared a vaccine.

At the same time, government scientists and regulators are grappling with whether more Americans will need booster shots, a hotly debated move that many scientists argue is not yet supported by data. Other countries such as Israel and Germany have implemented booster policies.

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Share this article.
“Other individuals who are fully vaccinated are adequately protected and do not need an additional dose of Covid-19 vaccine at this time,” Dr. Woodcock said in her statement Thursday, adding that the agency was “actively engaged in a science-based, rigorous process with our federal partners to consider whether an additional dose may be needed in the future.”

The United States is the latest country to begin offering third doses to those with weaker immune systems. France has offered additional vaccine doses to certain people with poor immune responses since April, and Germany and Hungary recently followed suit.

About 3 percent of Americans have weakened immune systems for a variety of reasons, from a history of cancer to the use of certain medications such as steroids.

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The F.D.A.’s decision to limit the category of people with weakened immune systems who should receive the extra dose was expected. Many scientists argue that the immunocompromised population is too diverse to uniformly recommend additional shots of coronavirus vaccine. Some may be protected by the standard vaccine dosage, despite their conditions. Others may be poorly shielded by the vaccines, but unable to benefit from an additional shot.

Studies suggest that patients such as organ transplant recipients are in between — often showing little immune response to the standard vaccine regimen, but benefiting from a third shot. One recent randomized, placebo-controlled study by Canadian researchers found that a third dose of the Moderna vaccine improved the immune response of people in that group.

 

Edited August 13, 2021 by jimmyjazz

[brakeman 28359]

 

[brakeman 28359]

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

So the FDA has authorized a 3rd dose of Pfizer or Moderna for certain individuals.  I'm curious to see what proof is required to qualify?

Dos Tres

 

  Hide contents

The Food and Drug Administration on Thursday authorized third doses of Pfizer-BioNTech’s and Moderna’s coronavirus vaccines for some people with weakened immune systems, giving physicians more leeway to protect those who did not respond enough to an initial series of shots.

The authorization, in the form of updates to the existing emergency use authorizations for the two vaccines, applies to people who received solid organ transplants and others with similarly compromised immune systems, the F.D.A. said.

The agency’s decision came a day before the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s independent advisory committee was set to consider and vote on whether to recommend the move. The committee is likely to give its approval, and the C.D.C. would follow with its own endorsement of the additional doses.

“The F.D.A. is especially cognizant that immunocompromised people are particularly at risk for severe disease,” Dr. Janet Woodcock, the acting F.D.A. commissioner, said in a statement. “After a thorough review of the available data, the F.D.A. determined that this small, vulnerable group may benefit from a third dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna Vaccines.”

The authorization of the third doses kicks off what promises to be a busy next stretch for federal vaccine regulators — and a new phase of the nation’s inoculation drive. By the start of next month, the agency is expected to grant full approval to Pfizer-BioNTech’s vaccine. That will most likely prompt a wave of vaccination mandates from companies and organizations that waited to require vaccination until the F.D.A. fully cleared a vaccine.

At the same time, government scientists and regulators are grappling with whether more Americans will need booster shots, a hotly debated move that many scientists argue is not yet supported by data. Other countries such as Israel and Germany have implemented booster policies.

Did you know you can share 10 gift articles a month, even with nonsubscribers?
Share this article.
“Other individuals who are fully vaccinated are adequately protected and do not need an additional dose of Covid-19 vaccine at this time,” Dr. Woodcock said in her statement Thursday, adding that the agency was “actively engaged in a science-based, rigorous process with our federal partners to consider whether an additional dose may be needed in the future.”

The United States is the latest country to begin offering third doses to those with weaker immune systems. France has offered additional vaccine doses to certain people with poor immune responses since April, and Germany and Hungary recently followed suit.

About 3 percent of Americans have weakened immune systems for a variety of reasons, from a history of cancer to the use of certain medications such as steroids.

Editors’ Picks

Eye Drops Were Supposed to Help Her Vision. Why Did It Feel Worse?

Can We Ever Look at Titian’s Paintings the Same Way Again?

The March of the Karens
The F.D.A.’s decision to limit the category of people with weakened immune systems who should receive the extra dose was expected. Many scientists argue that the immunocompromised population is too diverse to uniformly recommend additional shots of coronavirus vaccine. Some may be protected by the standard vaccine dosage, despite their conditions. Others may be poorly shielded by the vaccines, but unable to benefit from an additional shot.

Studies suggest that patients such as organ transplant recipients are in between — often showing little immune response to the standard vaccine regimen, but benefiting from a third shot. One recent randomized, placebo-controlled study by Canadian researchers found that a third dose of the Moderna vaccine improved the immune response of people in that group.

 

nope, because of anti-vax and waste.

just walk up and ask, brother.

[Anastasis 23469]

2 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

So the FDA has authorized a 3rd dose of Pfizer or Moderna for certain individuals.  I'm curious to see what proof is required to qualify?

Dos Tres

 

  Reveal hidden contents

The Food and Drug Administration on Thursday authorized third doses of Pfizer-BioNTech’s and Moderna’s coronavirus vaccines for some people with weakened immune systems, giving physicians more leeway to protect those who did not respond enough to an initial series of shots.

The authorization, in the form of updates to the existing emergency use authorizations for the two vaccines, applies to people who received solid organ transplants and others with similarly compromised immune systems, the F.D.A. said.

The agency’s decision came a day before the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s independent advisory committee was set to consider and vote on whether to recommend the move. The committee is likely to give its approval, and the C.D.C. would follow with its own endorsement of the additional doses.

“The F.D.A. is especially cognizant that immunocompromised people are particularly at risk for severe disease,” Dr. Janet Woodcock, the acting F.D.A. commissioner, said in a statement. “After a thorough review of the available data, the F.D.A. determined that this small, vulnerable group may benefit from a third dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna Vaccines.”

The authorization of the third doses kicks off what promises to be a busy next stretch for federal vaccine regulators — and a new phase of the nation’s inoculation drive. By the start of next month, the agency is expected to grant full approval to Pfizer-BioNTech’s vaccine. That will most likely prompt a wave of vaccination mandates from companies and organizations that waited to require vaccination until the F.D.A. fully cleared a vaccine.

At the same time, government scientists and regulators are grappling with whether more Americans will need booster shots, a hotly debated move that many scientists argue is not yet supported by data. Other countries such as Israel and Germany have implemented booster policies.

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“Other individuals who are fully vaccinated are adequately protected and do not need an additional dose of Covid-19 vaccine at this time,” Dr. Woodcock said in her statement Thursday, adding that the agency was “actively engaged in a science-based, rigorous process with our federal partners to consider whether an additional dose may be needed in the future.”

The United States is the latest country to begin offering third doses to those with weaker immune systems. France has offered additional vaccine doses to certain people with poor immune responses since April, and Germany and Hungary recently followed suit.

About 3 percent of Americans have weakened immune systems for a variety of reasons, from a history of cancer to the use of certain medications such as steroids.

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The F.D.A.’s decision to limit the category of people with weakened immune systems who should receive the extra dose was expected. Many scientists argue that the immunocompromised population is too diverse to uniformly recommend additional shots of coronavirus vaccine. Some may be protected by the standard vaccine dosage, despite their conditions. Others may be poorly shielded by the vaccines, but unable to benefit from an additional shot.

Studies suggest that patients such as organ transplant recipients are in between — often showing little immune response to the standard vaccine regimen, but benefiting from a third shot. One recent randomized, placebo-controlled study by Canadian researchers found that a third dose of the Moderna vaccine improved the immune response of people in that group.

 

Hey, just a few months behind other countries leading the way. Good job bureaucrats.