CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk

[Buzzrock 14,926]

What do you think is a bigger public health threat: 60% unvaxed of 12% of the total US population or 50% of 60% of the total US population? Even a coach should be able to get that one

Blacks are the least likely to get vaccinated. It’s important to figure out why that is and resolve it. It might even help with the Trumper group, which needs to be helped too.

Personally I think the messaging and the “science” has been so scrambled, on top of the general approach of telling people that they are stupid pieces of shit (and then acting surprised when that doesn’t work) that the only thing that is going to work now is paying people. I don’t understand why we haven’t done that already. We’re throwing money at everything else these days: what’s more important than getting everyone vaccinated? $500, $1000 a pop. Whatever it costs.

[Sawbonz 27,578]

5 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

Blacks are the least likely to get vaccinated. It’s important to figure out why that is and resolve it. It might even help with the Trumper group, which needs to be helped too.

Personally I think the messaging and the “science” has been so scrambled, on top of the general approach of telling people that they are stupid pieces of shit (and then acting surprised when that doesn’t work) that the only thing that is going to work now is paying people. I don’t understand why we haven’t done that already. We’re throwing money at everything else these days: what’s more important than getting everyone vaccinated? $500, $1000 a pop. Whatever it costs.

It’s important on an individual basis for the unvaccinated. But in terms of virus spread 105M unvaxed vs 25M?  That’s just troll shit. 

[Buzzrock 14,926]

It’s important on an individual basis for the unvaccinated. But in terms of virus spread 105M unvaxed vs 25M?  That’s just troll shit. 

Of course the larger group of people presents a larger contagion threat. Duh. But understanding why the most hesitant group is so could end up being critical to the greater goal.

Or maybe you just hate Black people (am I doing CR right?).

[Neonmoon 38,129]

30 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

Blacks are the least likely to get vaccinated

Can I see your math Lt. Gov Patrick?

[Buzzrock 14,926]

It’s been posted many times.

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210202/black-vaccine-hesitancy-rooted-in-mistrust-doubts

[tigol 2,398]

3 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

It’s been posted many times.

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210202/black-vaccine-hesitancy-rooted-in-mistrust-doubts

What percent of the population do the unvaccinated black people represent?

 

Now do white people.

[SubliminalHorn 6,806]

18 hours ago, PassiveAggressiveCoach said:

Where are the tombstones saying Cuomo shoved a COVID patient in my nursing home? 

Still holding onto mistakes made waayy at the beginning of the pandemic? How about we worry about what’s happening today?

[BrickHorn 18,237]

43 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

Blacks are the least likely to get vaccinated.

I don’t know what’s going on with you today, but you’re on an impressive run of wrong. Recent polling (as in, last week instead of February) shows blacks are more likely than whites to be vaccinated.

[Sawbonz 27,578]

26 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

Of course the larger group of people presents a larger contagion threat. Duh. But understanding why the most hesitant group is so could end up being critical to the greater goal.

Or maybe you just hate Black people (am I doing CR right?).

We’ve been over why they are the most hesitant group. Over and over. You want to take a crack at it

[Beantown Express 2.0 6,559]

44 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

Blacks are the least likely to get vaccinated. It’s important to figure out why that is and resolve it. It might even help with the Trumper group, which needs to be helped too.

Personally I think the messaging and the “science” has been so scrambled, on top of the general approach of telling people that they are stupid pieces of shit (and then acting surprised when that doesn’t work) that the only thing that is going to work now is paying people. I don’t understand why we haven’t done that already. We’re throwing money at everything else these days: what’s more important than getting everyone vaccinated? $500, $1000 a pop. Whatever it costs.

So you think if these people were offered money they would lose their beliefs that the vaccine is dangerous?  They are idiots but we have seen that they are stubborn idiots about everything.  See “Trump is still my President” and “gee this horse paste sounds like a good idea”.  They wouldn’t take the money and then they would start saying Bill Gates is paying for people to get the vaccine so he can control them.  Can’t change stupid.

[Buzzrock 14,926]

What percent of the population do the unvaccinated black people represent?
 
Now do white people.

Je. Sus. Christ.

[Sawbonz 27,578]

3 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

I don’t know what’s going on with you today, but you’re on an impressive run of wrong. Recent polling (as in, last week instead of February) shows blacks are more likely than whites to be vaccinated.

Quote

• Republicans who support Trump more than party: 46 percent

Covid may just fix the glitch

[Buzzrock 14,926]

I don’t know what’s going on with you today, but you’re on an impressive run of wrong. Recent polling (as in, last week instead of February) shows blacks are more likely than whites to be vaccinated.

Thanks for posting that, it’s entirely likely that I’m not 100% up to speed on the latest numbers. That said, I don’t think poll data is the best way to get that info.

The CDC said “Black people have received smaller shares of vaccinations compared to their shares of cases and the total population in about half of states reporting data.” This is from August 18th.

https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-data-on-covid-19-vaccinations-race-ethnicity/

If we have cracked the Black hesitancy problem then that’s awesome (I don’t think we’re there yet). Maybe it can help the Trumper problem.

[Buzzrock 14,926]

So you think if these people were offered money they would lose their beliefs that the vaccine is dangerous?  They are idiots but we have seen that they are stubborn idiots about everything.  See “Trump is still my President” and “gee this horse paste sounds like a good idea”.  They wouldn’t take the money and then they would start saying Bill Gates is paying for people to get the vaccine so he can control them.  Can’t change stupid.

Yes I think a large number of them would take the vaccine if paid. There’s no equation that gets us to 100% (25% can’t take it anyway).

[Captainant 27,680]

7 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

If we have cracked the Black hesitancy problem then that’s awesome (I don’t think we’re there yet). Maybe it can help the Trumper problem

I really doubt that, considering the trumpian vaccine hesitancy is rooted in "MUH FREEDUMZ!" and the black community has experiences within living memory of the federal government using their community as an unwitting and unwilling petri dish. 

Sort of a different set of issues I'd argue. 

But yeah sure, focus on <15% of the population instead of >60% of the population. That'll definitely get you results quickly. 

[Buzzrock 14,926]

I really doubt that, considering the trumpian vaccine hesitancy is rooted in "MUH FREEDUMZ!" and the black community has experiences within living memory of the federal government using their community as an unwitting and unwilling petri dish. 
Sort of a different set of issues I'd argue. 
But yeah sure, focus on 60% of the population. That'll definitely get you results quickly. 

I never said instead of. You obviously think Black people deserve less attention than Trumpers.

[Captainant 27,680]

Just now, Buzzrock said:

I never said instead of. You obviously think Black people deserve less attention than Trumpers.

Hah who pissed in your Cheerios this morning? My apologies for misinterpreting your last series of posts focusing on only the black community and saying that if we figure them out THEN we can figure out the red hats. 

Whatever man, you seem tense. Do you want to go shit post in the DT looting thread to feel better?

[Anastasis 23,475]

Meanwhile, in Saudi Arabia, a MERS-CoV case has popped up out of the camel reservoir. 

 

 

 

[DaysOff 7,951]

11 hours ago, Pods said:

 

Second sentence in the article.

I have Good News/Bad News for you. Covid already does this with an asymptomatic period and not killing the infected for several weeks. It's why there is no selection pressure driving it to become more mild. The vaccine is unlikely to produce any response you wouldn't already see naturally. 

Having a shitload of infected people causes the same problem. Delta and Gamma both evolved in populations with zero vaccinated people and many previously infected ones. 

 

Yep. The virus doesn't care if you're smptomatic or not, live or not. It just wants to replicate and survive. We'd be better off if it was more Ebola like and killed the host of faster instead of letting said host attend a crowded Kenny Chesney concert.

[jimmyjazz 45,978]

6 minutes ago, DaysOff said:

We'd be better off if it was more Ebola like and killed the host of faster instead of letting said host attend a crowded Kenny Chesney concert.

Well, I'm not so sure about that.

[PsychMike 1,552]

 

 

[Sawbonz 27,578]

54 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

I never said instead of. You obviously think Black people deserve less attention than Trumpers.

Black people have a generations old lack of access to healthcare relative to white people. This coupled with also having been the unwitting victims of immoral and deadly medical experiments make them on the whole less likely to be willing and able to be vaccinated than white people. The unprecedented outreach of this vaccine drive into underserved communities, along with being faced with the reality of the deadliness of this virus as it affects their friends and loved ones is bringing many around as the poll referenced above indicates. 
 

Unvaccinated who support Trump over party think

The virus is a hoax or

If real it was engineered by communist China to kill us and

The vaccine was rushed, is dangerous, and ineffective if not an actual spreader of the virus and

Even if the vaccine is safe and effective they refuse to take it because the government wants them to and

The government and physicians, hospitals, and pharmacists are conspiring with Big Pharma to suppress use of an anti malarial and an antiparasitic (despite one showing  no clinical effects and the other only showing shorter duration of anosmia in mild to moderate cases) and

The most reasonable explanation for this conspiracy is to kill large numbers of freedom loving patriots in order to further the communist agenda of the left

 

Which group concerns you more?  

[Buzzrock 14,926]

Hah who pissed in your Cheerios this morning? My apologies for misinterpreting your last series of posts focusing on only the black community and saying that if we figure them out THEN we can figure out the red hats. 
Whatever man, you seem tense. Do you want to go shit post in the DT looting thread to feel better?

Just following your bad-argument lead. I’ll try not to let it happen again.

This thread makes me grumpy because I don’t believe those who say they are hoping for alternative therapies (based on how they pounce on any discussion of such or any skepticism about our current approach), and I worry that the current vaccines aren’t going to end the pandemic (despite being the best option we currently have).

I’ll go back to the guitar threads for awhile.

[Celery Man 20,969]

There's a ton of complexity with the issue of black Americans and medical care. There's a ton of frustration around bad faith arguments from the anti-life crowd that are 100% intended to

• distract, deflect, and confuse such that nothing productive can happen
• blame the libs for the problems that they are actively and purposefully exacerbating, thereby owning the libs in addition to distracting/deflecting/confusing

"black democrats are responsible for the failure of the vaccination to contain the pandemic" is a perfect one of these bad faith arguments. It hits all of the buttons of being difficult to talk about, white guilt, just a shade enough of truthiness that you can do all kinds of ben shapiro shit whenever someone denies that that is the problem, and of course it is complete horseshit.

[Captainant 27,680]

6 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

Just following your bad-argument lead. I’ll try not to let it happen again.

This thread makes me grumpy because I don’t believe those who say they are hoping for alternative therapies (based on how they pounce on any discussion of such or any skepticism about our current approach), and I worry that the current vaccines aren’t going to end the pandemic (despite being the best option we currently have).

I’ll go back to the guitar threads for awhile.

What is the end outcome you hope to achieve with "alternative therapies"? Is it reduced deaths, hospitalizations, and risk of long COVID?

If so - the absolute best option is a vaccine. A proactive, low cost, low impact technique. That's broadly and easily available in the US right now.

So rather than turning that knob up to 11 for the largest demographic in US - you think the best way to reduce deaths is horse paste? Or to start investigating and trialing it with COVID now? Costing time, energy, and resources - all to chase down and validate some aggy fucking conspiracy? Do you really think that will get more people vaccinated? 

[Hornius Emeritus 12,471]

36 minutes ago, PsychMike said:

 

 

Ahem.  It wasn't Marie Antoinette but Catherine the Great who  was the ultimate neighsayer.  

Edited August 31, 2021 by Hornius Emeritus

[hornian 5,219]

7 minutes ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

Ahem.  It wasn't Marie Antoinette but Catherine the Great who  was the ultimate neighsayer.  

Which brings me to my favorite Venture Bros quote: "Don't Wince"

[Guest Lobo]

10 minutes ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

Ahem.  It wasn't Marie Antoinette but Catherine the Great who  was the ultimate neighsayer.  

then which one fucked the horse? 

[wildcat09 29,355]

23 minutes ago, Captainant said:

What is the end outcome you hope to achieve with "alternative therapies"? Is it reduced deaths, hospitalizations, and risk of long COVID?

If so - the absolute best option is a vaccine. A proactive, low cost, low impact technique. That's broadly and easily available in the US right now.

So rather than turning that knob up to 11 for the largest demographic in US - you think the best way to reduce deaths is horse paste? Or to start investigating and trialing it with COVID now? Costing time, energy, and resources - all to chase down and validate some aggy fucking conspiracy? Do you really think that will get more people vaccinated? 

He's hoping one can vindicate all the bullshit his heterodox IDW hero has spent months pimping, which has resulted in who knows how many deaths.

[Homercles 10,206]

19 hours ago, PassiveAggressiveCoach said:

The spread is not the same but it is still quite significant. Vaccinated spread the virus and not at some minuscule small rate. The vax will not stop the spread. That's just a fact. It will severely reduce the impacts of I fection though. Reason enough to take it of you haven't been infected previously. 

Ahh the ole ‘no solution is perfect so let’s do nothing instead’ troupe I remember from gun control, electricity regulation Feb ‘21, climate change, etc.  

[Js1 85,424]

10 minutes ago, Homercles said:

Ahh the ole ‘no solution is perfect so let’s do nothing instead’ troupe I remember from gun control, electricity regulation Feb ‘21, climate change, etc.  

Yep - modern day Republicanism in a nutshell:

[jimmyjazz 45,978]

Sometimes complex problems have fairly simple but multi-faceted solutions:

- vaccinate everyone who is able to be vaccinated

- develop effective therapeutics to help with breakthrough infections, or infections in those who can't be vaccinated

- promote behavior that helps mitigate the risk of transmission

- let science dictate which potential therapeutics are bullshit

 

I know, I live in fantasyland.

[cactusflinthead 27,601]

 

[wildcat09 29,355]

3 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Sometimes complex problems have fairly simple but multi-faceted solutions:

- vaccinate everyone who is able to be vaccinated

- develop effective therapeutics to help with breakthrough infections, or infections in those who can't be vaccinated

- promote behavior that helps mitigate the risk of transmission

- let science dictate which potential therapeutics are bullshit

 

I know, I live in fantasyland.

The thing you're missing, is that all scientists are actually in on a great big conspiracy trying to cover up the most effective treatments so they can pimp a vaccine that kills nearly as many people as covid, and the people you really need to listen to are heterodox podcasters who have the balls to stand up to the elites. And don't forget to give those podcasters your money. 

[HenryJames 66,128]

 

[Brisketexan 105,158]

35 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Sometimes complex problems have fairly simple but multi-faceted solutions:

- vaccinate everyone who is able to be vaccinated

- develop effective therapeutics to help with breakthrough infections, or infections in those who can't be vaccinated

- promote behavior that helps mitigate the risk of transmission

- let science dictate which potential therapeutics are bullshit

 

I know, I live in fantasyland.

This.  It's as simple as this.

Against any attack, the smartest strategy is to take easy and effective measures that deter the attackers (vaccines).  As part of that strategy, you also  engage in secondary measures that prevent attackers from getting through (masks, distancing, etc. as may be helpful).  Then, as a LAST LINE OF DEFENSE, you have a plan to take out the attackers who get through (therapies). 

The problem is not trying therapies.  Doctors desperately want therapies that work.  The problem is that the dominant conversation about all therapies 1) has embedded in it some magical thinking that it presents a miracle cure that will obviate the need for anything else (see HCQ and ivermectin discussions -- go to Texags if you want to see how those go), and 2) that therapies are pushed as a SUBSTITUTE for vaccines and any other mitigating measures.

When the message is "take ivermectin, that's all you need, masks and vaccines are a commie plot," then yeah, that's a shit message that's literally gotten a lot of people killed.  If the message was what Jimmy just posted above......there wouldn't be any resistance to it at all.

[lemonlime 5,503]

2 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

Black people have a generations old lack of access to healthcare relative to white people. This coupled with also having been the unwitting victims of immoral and deadly medical experiments make them on the whole less likely to be willing and able to be vaccinated than white people. The unprecedented outreach of this vaccine drive into underserved communities, along with being faced with the reality of the deadliness of this virus as it affects their friends and loved ones is bringing many around as the poll referenced above indicates. 
 

Unvaccinated who support Trump over party think

The virus is a hoax or

If real it was engineered by communist China to kill us and

The vaccine was rushed, is dangerous, and ineffective if not an actual spreader of the virus and

Even if the vaccine is safe and effective they refuse to take it because the government wants them to and

The government and physicians, hospitals, and pharmacists are conspiring with Big Pharma to suppress use of an anti malarial and an antiparasitic (despite one showing  no clinical effects and the other only showing shorter duration of anosmia in mild to moderate cases) and

The most reasonable explanation for this conspiracy is to kill large numbers of freedom loving patriots in order to further the communist agenda of the left

 

Which group concerns you more?  

Well, we know which group concerns him more....

Also, to add, only one of these groups is going around holding widespread rallies against masks and vaccines and trying to convince others through their elected offices, TV/radio shows, etc. not to get vaxxed.

[Brisketexan 105,158]

5 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

 

I'm curious...which med school is it that teaches "vaccines don't work and are a commie control method?"  Because, ummm, I'd  like to avoid any doc trained at said school.

[Buzzrock 14,926]

He's hoping one can vindicate all the bullshit his heterodox IDW hero has spent months pimping, which has resulted in who knows how many deaths.

There’s my boy!

[Buzzrock 14,926]

Sorry to be back so soon, but this is encouraging news that paying people could work:

https://abc13.com/harris-county-vaccine-incentive-ending-money-for-covid-shot/10987048/

According to Hidalgo, three weeks prior to the incentive, the public health department was administering an average of 431 first doses per day.

On Aug. 17, the day the incentive was announced, the average number of first doses per day almost doubled to 914. The next day, that number shot up to 1,596 people who got their first dose.

"And it's just gone up from there," Hidalgo said.

[wildcat09 29,355]

2 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

There’s my boy!

 

The people you listen to are just this lady speaking in softer tones of voice:

 

9 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

 

Good job on finding something that makes you feel smarter than the sheeple, though.

[Brisketexan 105,158]

6 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

Well, we know which group concerns him more....

Also, to add, only one of these groups is going around holding widespread rallies against masks and vaccines and trying to convince others through their elected offices, TV/radio shows, etc. not to get vaxxed.

And a whole lot of fucking this.  One group is actively campaigning AGAINST vaccines, sometimes literally attacking vaccination sites (for real, this has happened) and harassing vaccine providers.  The other group is just wary/has less access.

But, you know, that second one, that's the problem that's killing thousands of Americans right now.

[jimmyjazz 45,978]

My only problem with paying people to get vaccinated is that it seems likely this will be an annually administered vaccine, or maybe even more often than that.  At $1K per person per year, that's $330B (+/- depending on children, frequency etc.), which is not exactly cheap.

Of course, it should be weighed against the loss of productivity and economic effects of more widespread virus.

[Macanudo 12,989]

2 hours ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

Ahem.  It wasn't Marie Antoinette but Catherine the Great who  was the ultimate neighsayer.  

Don't forget Mr. Hands.   He liked it rough too.

[Biff Tannen 45,691]

4 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

Don't forget Mr. Hands.   He liked it rough too.

[JimmyJames 12,271]

Hey bud! What’s your problem?

[Don Johnson 4,754]

33 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

 

This may be unpopular, but from what I've seen nurses are some of the worst anti-vaxxers.  Last numbers I saw have them around 50% vaccinated, while the physicians are around 96%. 

Classic case of knowing just enough to be dangerous.  And unfortunately, people trust them on this stuff.

Edited August 31, 2021 by Don Johnson

[Sawbonz 27,578]

43 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

The thing you're missing, is that all scientists are actually in on a great big conspiracy trying to cover up the most effective treatments so they can pimp a vaccine that kills nearly as many people as covid, and the people you really need to listen to are heterodox podcasters who have the balls to stand up to the elites. And don't forget to give those podcasters your money. 

What you want them listening to homodox podcasters ? 

[Bullneck 19,178]

Men, where are you? Men. Wake up, smell the coffee. Let’s go. Make men great again. Make men men again. Men, men. Let’s go, men, I need you. I need you in the coming weeks because when we walk into those school boards, we’re gonna have everything we need to do to go in there with those 9-0 school boards that voted to put these masks back on the children with no scientific — it’s done.

Quote

GOP Candidate Suggests Forcibly Removing School Board Members Over Mask Mandates

Pennsylvania’s Steve Lynch told a crowd this weekend, “I’m going in with 20 strong men and I’m gonna give them an option — they can leave or they can be removed.”

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/steve-lynch-gop-candidate-force-school-board-mask-mandates_n_612d3b7ae4b0f562f3e13b0a?utm_source=spotim&utm_medium=spotim_recirculation

 

Edited August 31, 2021 by Bullneck

[RDCanecutter 26,453]

43 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

 

Demonic-Entity-Spotting Nurse? You know she's a freak in the sack. Sure, you wake up tied to the bed getting beat with the narrow edge of a 2 x 4, but the night before would have been fun.