CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk

[Captainant 27843]

3 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

If you can afford to lose 3 employees to keep one, you weren't doing something right in the first place, IMO.

Next you'll tell me the people who believe that regulations are the only reason their business failed aren't actually great business owners

[Deej 76965]

11 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Interesting hypothetical I’m going over in my mind- say you are a company that has 103 employees. Most of them happily got vaccinated. Your most valuable employee, by whatever metric, refuses vaccination and refuses testing because freedom. If you don’t want to lose that employee, do you look at terminating multiple employees that are less valuable to get under 100?  Look to take some to contractor (assuming that makes a difference in the edict)?  Those actions would presumably punish the employees that are doing the right thing. 

"Hey, we're gonna have to let a few of you go, and the rest of you, well...let's just say you may want to keep wearing a mask while you're at the office, even though you're all vaccinated. Well, almost all of you, right Fred?"

[GreenspointTexas 9685]

COVID is still really, really fucking bad i  Houston. How do I know? Because the surgery centers and hospitals we staff are fucking insane with surgical cases. Almost all of the surgeons in Houston have shifted their cases to ASCs and surgery centers. Its not sustainable.

 

Ive been a CRNA for over 10 years, and ive never seen it this busy. Usually, this time of year, we are doing 40-50 cases a day at the main surgical hospital im at. Maybe 2-3 late rooms after 5pm. 
 

Now? Every.fucking.day. we have 6-7 late rooms and 60-70 cases. Its insane. CRNAs and Docs are burnt out. Lotta OR staff quitting or leaving at virtually every facility we are staffed (we staff close to 25 facilities throughout Houston). Personally, im very close to being burnt out.

 

The fallout from covid and delta isnt just in the hospitals. There will be a massive shift and dearth in healthcare all over because people cant keep their dicks in their pants for a little while. Healthcare will take years, if not a decade to normalize after this. No hyperbole like I usually love to spout on here. Seriously, the next 4-5 months will be the biggest challenge American healthcare has seen in decades.

Edited September 10, 2021 by GreenspointTexas

[DaysOff 7977]

ballgame

[GreenspointTexas 9685]

ballgame

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Chuckie Finster 22756]

The thing we all need to remember: vaccine mandates are popular with the majority. The minority is just REALLY loud about it. Also, many in the minority do not want the economy to improve, so hiding behind “TYRANNY!!!” or whatever is the current play.

This is a no brainer decision, both politically and ethically, for any leader who actually wants to try and beat this thing.

[Buzzrock 14949]

This was true before Delta. Out of 10 exposures, 9 unvaccinated will catch it. Also Delta is killing 2-5 out of 100 all comers and it is killing young healthy people with no comorbidities at a completely unacceptable rate. It’s probably 1 in 200 or higher. And 1 in 10 have serious long term sequelae. 
 
I had a good friend from high school 49 years old die within the last month. My wife’s best friend from high school lost her husband who was 47 within the past month. All The tertiary hospitals in Dallas Fort Worth are closed for elective procedures and direct admits to the floor because they are full of Covid and 95% of these fuckers are unvaccinated.
 
People are dying of routine, easily treatable medical conditions because they can’t get medical care because of these fucking morons.
 
Do you know what you call people who won’t do something that is in their best interest because someone they don’t like told them to? You call them toddlers. Seriously fuck them and anyone who’s trying to make an argument that we should give a shit about their feelings. Either mandate they get vaccinated or mandate if they get sick they stay the fuck home I really don’t care which at this point

Are you saying that Delta is killing one in 200 young healthy people? That is alarming, I haven’t seen that reported. Covid has killed 15 kids under 18 in Georgia.

[mdmost 43059]

"Biden needs to do something about the numbers under his watch"

Biden announces vaccine mandates. WELL NOT THAT!

Asking nicely doesn't work. Dangling carrots doesn't work. There are segments of society that will not do the sensible thing because either historical distrust of the government or because they're like MN and fed a steady diet of right wing bullshit. So now is the time you have to be the adult and make the choice for the little toddler. 

[DDD Dad 14356]

Are you saying that Delta is killing one in 200 young healthy people? That is alarming, I haven’t seen that reported. Covid has killed 15 kids under 18 in Georgia.

That’s not what he said. He said that young, healthy people without comorbidities are among those dying.

Edit: well maybe he did say that.

I’m not seeing those numbers in the stats I’ve reviewed (seems off by a factor of 10) but even at a lower rate it’s really bad.

[crash_davis 23115]

nsiap.

grandmother is anti vax. her daughter and her daughter's family get sick. little girl dies. little boy at the hospital.

fuck these selfish people. seriously fuck them. these kids never had a chance with stupid parents and grandparents.

 

 

[Foosters 17889]

MNLonghorn believes it's better for children like that to die, than for adults to take Covid tests once a week.

 

[mdmost 43059]

MN and the Daily Texan crowd didn't care about deaths under Trump because that was all olds and fat people who they thought would die anyway. Now that it's younger people and kids, they suddenly give a shit and Biden is to blame. Not people like them who minimized everything, said we should just go wide open and not protect anyone, puppeted personal choice bullshit since the beginning, and helped foster an environment of distrust that's allowed millions of morons to help keep this virus going and making it deadlier. But yeah, Biden's at fault here. 

[Buzzrock 14949]

I was wondering so I looked it up: 98.1% of US businesses have fewer than 100 employees. They employ 33.4% of all employees.

https://sbecouncil.org/about-us/facts-and-data/

So while the mandate won’t apply to the vast majority of businesses, it will cover 2/3 of all workers. Google says there are about 157M workers.

I wonder if you can split a 150 person company into two legal entities to dodge the mandate.

Once again, the lawyers will make hay.

[Deej 76965]

30 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

nsiap.

grandmother is anti vax. her daughter and her daughter's family get sick. little girl dies. little boy at the hospital.

fuck these selfish people. seriously fuck them. these kids never had a chance with stupid parents and grandparents.

 

 

Fuck everyone donating money to her GoFundMe. "I killed my children. Pay me."

[Js1 85612]

26 minutes ago, mdmost said:

MN and the Daily Texan crowd didn't care about deaths under Trump because that was all olds and fat people who they thought would die anyway. Now that it's younger people and kids, they suddenly give a shit and Biden is to blame. Not people like them who minimized everything, said we should just go wide open and not protect anyone, puppeted personal choice bullshit since the beginning, and helped foster an environment of distrust that's allowed millions of morons to help keep this virus going and making it deadlier. But yeah, Biden's at fault here.  they are Trump supporters. 

fify. 

[Incredulity 11683]

Gottlieb on CNBC this AM said that the private employer mandate won't be able to  implemented until Fall 22.  He frankly questioned the value of it at that point versus the acrimony created currently.

 

On the 100 employee level, it is the default level used on most, if not all, federal level mandates.  So I think its there by default.  It will be very interesting to see what the standard is for, "ensuring employees are vaccinated".  It sounds like the federal employee mandate is being based on attestment, which will just be a bunch of bullshit anyway.

[MissingInAction 25208]

 

 

[Js1 85612]

This morning, I saw the new thing is "Invermectin won a Noble Prize, it's so legit, why are they not letting us take this!!!"

Why yes - it did

Quote

William C. Campbell and Satoshi Ōmura discovered a new drug, Avermectin, the derivatives of which have radically lowered the incidence of River Blindness and Lymphatic Filariasis, as well as showing efficacy against an expanding number of other parasitic diseases.

The only parasitic disease going around is brain worms.  Don't think it treats that, yet. 

[LurkingHorn 1072]

Honest question regarding the mandates: is it legal for the feds to simply require proof of vaccination or prior infection for domestic flights? I'm skeptical this company mandate is going to amount to much because you already see a whole bunch of posters presenting hypotheticals to get around it. 

It sure seems like requiring this for air travel would be way more effective. You want to take your summer vacation to cooler climate? Get the shot or drive your ass there. 

[jimmyjazz 46249]

9 minutes ago, Js1 said:

This morning, I saw the new thing is "Invermectin won a Noble Prize, it's so legit, why are they not letting us take this!!!"

Why yes - it did

There's a fake quote circulating that is attributed to William Campbell, one of the prize winners, where he allegedly claims ivermectin cures covid-19.  He never said that.

[Js1 85612]

Holy fuck, if anyone thought that was an actual real quote, they really do have brain worms. 

[ConferenceRoom 6147]

2 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Holy fuck, if anyone thought that was an actual real quote, they really do have brain worms. 

Requesting permission to enter the fantasy land where that scenario is still qualified with an "if." 

[Beau Vine 54469]

2 hours ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

If you can afford to lose 3 employees to keep one, you weren't doing something right in the first place, IMO.

What if the one has great big gazongas?

[Judge Roybeanbag 11821]

1 hour ago, Buzzrock said:

Are you saying that Delta is killing one in 200 young healthy people? That is alarming, I haven’t seen that reported. Covid has killed 15 kids under 18 in Georgia.

I think he's saying 1 out of every 200 that are infected, but that's just my take.

[Don Johnson 4757]

2 hours ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

If you can afford to lose 3 employees to keep one, you weren't doing something right in the first place, IMO.

False.  In this hypothetical, the company is forced to choose.  There are many companies that would choose 1 super valuable employee over 3 less valuable employees.  They would prefer to have all 4, but forced to choose would be better off keeping the one super valuable employee.

Think of every company that you think of as successful.  All of them can probably "afford" to lose 3 employees.  All them probably have lost multiple employees every year to retirement, competitors, firings, etc.  They probably didn't want to lose them, but the fact that they could afford to and keep chugging along means they were doing something right in the first place.

[Incredulity 11683]

The 80/20 rule certainly applies to employees.

The 103 scenario is a red herring though, as its got to be a miniscule percentage of employers over 100 that are within a remotely tenable amount of firings to get below the mandate.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11821]

15 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

False.  In this hypothetical, the company is forced to choose.  There are many companies that would choose 1 super valuable employee over 3 less valuable employees.  They would prefer to have all 4, but forced to choose would be better off keeping the one super valuable employee.

Think of every company that you think of as successful.  All of them can probably "afford" to lose 3 employees.  All them probably have lost multiple employees every year to retirement, competitors, firings, etc.  They probably didn't want to lose them, but the fact that they could afford to and keep chugging along means they were doing something right in the first place.

That's possibly true, but like you said this was a hypothetical.  Take the hypothetical that the super valuable employee gets Covid infects a few other employees, spends a month in the hospital racking up $1 million or so in medical costs, and possibly dies.  Increasing the employers healthcare premium and fucking over the remaining employees.  "Super valuable" is subjective and in that scenario the decision making person doesn't look so good.

Edited September 10, 2021 by Judge Roybeanbag

[Don Johnson 4757]

3 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

That's possibly true, but like you said this was a hypothetical.  Take the hypothetical that the super valuable employee gets Covid infects a few other employees, spends a month in the hospital racking up $1 million or so in medical costs, and possibly dies.  Increasing the employers healthcare premium and fucking over the remaining employees.  "Super valuable" is subjective and in that scenario the decision making person doesn't look so good.

Well, that's totally different than the comment I disagreed with and if you would've posted that, I wouldn't have disagreed.  Obviously, if you choose a super valuable employee and they become less valuable (in hospital, not working and racking up a million in costs) or dead and no longer producing, that is a poor decision.

But that's not what you said.  You implied that no employee is worth losing 3 lesser employees and any company in that situation isn't doing it right in the first place.  

[lemonlime 5503]

Or you could just convince the "super valuable employee" who's also somehow simultaneously too fucking stupid to get vaccinated to get tested weekly.  If your "super valuable employee" won't even consent to testing to protect 102 other people maybe, just maybe, he or she isn't "super valuable."

[Judge Roybeanbag 11821]

2 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

Well, that's totally different than the comment I disagreed with and if you would've posted that, I wouldn't have disagreed.  Obviously, if you choose a super valuable employee and they become less valuable (in hospital, not working and racking up a million in costs) or dead and no longer producing, that is a poor decision.

But that's not what you said.  You implied that no employee is worth losing 3 lesser employees and any company in that situation isn't doing it right in the first place.  

Fair enough - I wasn't trying to argue with you, I suppose in "normal times" there are situations where 1 employee is worth another 3 (hence salary differences), but I was thinking in terms of same position, like sales people or something.  I think we're all on the same page.

[jimmyjazz 46249]

Man, that's a finely parsed hypothetical.  I'm pretty sure it wouldn't happen in the real world more than . . . once?

[The Royal We 3072]

On 8/20/2021 at 9:15 AM, The Royal We said:

Welp, got the call last night that I've been expecting and dreading since this whole shitshow started - my mom and dad both tested positive yesterday.  Both unvaxxed, mom is in good health, dad is 70 y.o., overweight, has emphysema, still hits the lung darts and has had some heart issues within the last few years.  Mom got it at an exercise class last Thursday, started feeling shitty on Sunday and has been in bed most of the week.  Dad has no symptoms yet but both of them tested positive yesterday.

The way they've approached Covid has been a huge source of tension in our family pretty much the entire time.  I pleaded, begged, yelled, cussed at them, etc. to get the jab, but they wouldn't do it.  They check all the nutter boxes - talked up and maybe took HCQ, resisted wearing masks, bragged to me this summer about finding a "holistic" doctor to give them Ivermectin and got mad at me when (pre-vax) I didn't want to take my family to large family gatherings with people that I knew were being careless.

The hell of it is, my pops told me that after they tested positive yesterday that they somehow got their hands on and took the antibody treatment.  He reluctantly admitted to me that it wasn't FDA approved and was experimental, but has shown good results according to people they talked to.  What the fucking fuck!?  The vax is scary, will magnetize your arm, isn't approved, was rushed, whatever, but the antibody treatment when your chickens finally come home to roost is just A-O-Fucking-K!?

They live in a small town that doesn't have the capabilities to treat someone crashing with Covid, so I don't know where they will go if things go pear-shaped.  My hope is that pops getting the antibody treatment before symptoms might save his ass.  I don't really know how effective they are, but it certainly can't hurt.  They've got a pulse Ox and are monitoring their levels, so far so good.

I'm so fucking bitter this morning but am trying my best to be stoic.  The echo chamber of BS is very real and very dangerous.

 

I never closed the loop here, but either my folks were really lucky or the decision to get the Regeneron treatment when they did saved my old man's life.  He never even had any symptoms while my mom got the shit kicked out of her for a few days.  Pops was going to get an antibody test yesterday and should have the results early next week.  I'm curious to see what that looks like.  My mom tells me she's made a full recovery, but I'll get to see with my own eyes next week on a visit.  I'm willing to bet she's still not at 100% lung capacity even though she probably won't admit it to me.

[CooterBrown 18033]

It still blows my mind there are so many anti-vax nurses. I'd love to see the breakdown by education (LVN, RN, NP, etc)

You do realize that nurse is just below stripper on the crazy scale.

[jimmyjazz 46249]

3 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

You do realize that nurse is just below stripper on the crazy scale.

I spent 10 days in St. David's with pneumonia in my 20's.  My main nurse was smokin' hot and seemingly as crazy as a shithouse rat.  The dream scenarios that never played out kept me going and probably saved my life.

[CooterBrown 18033]

Or you could just convince the "super valuable employee" who's also somehow simultaneously too fucking stupid to get vaccinated to get tested weekly.  If your "super valuable employee" won't even consent to testing to protect 102 other people maybe, just maybe, he or she isn't "super valuable."

No one is irreplaceable. If they were, companies worldwide would grind to a halt during their vacations and when the eventually leave. Employees and especially their managers need to understand this. You are one gear in a machine with thousands of gears. You don’t mean shit.

[Js1 85612]

5 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

No one is irreplaceable. If they were, companies worldwide would grind to a halt during their vacations and when the eventually leave. Employees and especially their managers need to understand this. You are one gear in a machine with thousands of gears. You don’t mean shit.

We live in a bottom-line business culture.  If its between higher premiums and healthcare costs for the company or firing this super great awesome Cubicle Warrior....

That dude is fucked.  It'll come down to costs - unvaccinated employees are going to cost these companies more.  

[ROFL BOX 6649]

9 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I spent 10 days in St. David's with pneumonia in my 20's.  My main nurse was smokin' hot and seemingly as crazy as a shithouse rat.  The dream scenarios that never played out kept me going and probably saved my life.

I guess the unanswered questions here are 1.  have you looked her up on FB & what does she look like now?

[wildcat09 29429]

2 hours ago, Foosters said:

MNLonghorn believes it's better for children like that to die, than for adults to take Covid tests once a week.

 

Remember how fucking furious people like him were last year that they couldn't get a haircut? They turned into absolute lunatics because their hair salon was closed for a month. They're not even willing to go an extra few weeks in between haircuts to save thousands of lives, of course they don't give a shit about kids dying.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13528]

Last October, CNN went to a small MO town to report on their politicization of mask wearing. They've been decimated by the delta wave, and no big surprise are fairly anti-vax. CNN returned to talk to them.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/09/us/ozarks-missouri-covid-vaccine/index.html

two interviews stand out

1. guy lost his wife to covid in July and he plans to get vaccinated. Plans? What's he waiting for.
2. Friend of guy #1 who previously had  COVID. He says that the medical industry withheld the vaccine until after the election to screw over Trump, so he's showing them by not getting the vaccine.

 

[JimmyJames 12271]

6 hours ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Would you be for mandating the vaccine to receive welfare checks? If not, why?

Yes I would be in favor of that. Next question. 

[jimmyjazz 46249]

11 minutes ago, ROFL BOX said:

I guess the unanswered questions here are 1.  have you looked her up on FB & what does she look like now?

Well, it was circa 1990, so I didn't file her name away in the memory bank in the off chance someone would create a social media empire.  Short version:  no, and no idea.

[Js1 85612]

3 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Yes I would be in favor of that. Next question. 

This.  You want a government service? Be vaccinated.  Want a government contract for building a road? 100% vaccination rate required. Etc. etc. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

2 hours ago, crash_davis said:

nsiap.

grandmother is anti vax. her daughter and her daughter's family get sick. little girl dies. little boy at the hospital.

fuck these selfish people. seriously fuck them. these kids never had a chance with stupid parents and grandparents.

 

 

That is absolutely infuriating. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

1 hour ago, Beau Vine said:

What if the one has great big gazongas?

I think that’s one of the exceptions to the vaccine mandate. 

[jimmyjazz 46249]

8 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Last October, CNN went to a small MO town to report on their politicization of mask wearing. They've been decimated by the delta wave, and no big surprise are fairly anti-vax. CNN returned to talk to them.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/09/us/ozarks-missouri-covid-vaccine/index.html

two interviews stand out

1. guy lost his wife to covid in July and he plans to get vaccinated. Plans? What's he waiting for.
2. Friend of guy #1 who previously had  COVID. He says that the medical industry withheld the vaccine until after the election to screw over Trump, so he's showing them by not getting the vaccine.

 

That was the southern end of our athletics conference, so I'd go down there for HS wrestling.  If you've ever seen the movie "Winter's Bone" . . . well, it's basically a documentary.

[JimmyJames 12271]

14 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Last October, CNN went to a small MO town to report on their politicization of mask wearing. They've been decimated by the delta wave, and no big surprise are fairly anti-vax. CNN returned to talk to them.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/09/us/ozarks-missouri-covid-vaccine/index.html

two interviews stand out

1. guy lost his wife to covid in July and he plans to get vaccinated. Plans? What's he waiting for.
2. Friend of guy #1 who previously had  COVID. He says that the medical industry withheld the vaccine until after the election to screw over Trump, so he's showing them by not getting the vaccine.

 

Dying to “own the Libs” is a new republican tradition. Kind of like the come and take it sign at UTSA football games. I really don’t have a problem with either one of these new traditions. 

[MissingInAction 25208]

Re: anti vax nurses

According my RN and MD pals its the LVNs that are the problem. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

7 minutes ago, MissingInAction said:

Re: anti vax nurses

According my RN and MD pals its the LVNs that are the problem. 

Yep. And the CNAs. You have to be fairly smart to be an RN. Below that, not so much. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13528]

13 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

That is absolutely infuriating. 

Agree. It would seem to be likely that mom's attitude towards COVID is why her daughter is dead. Hopefully she learns from it but doubtful. Many in this frame of mind console themselves that it's God's will.

[CooterBrown 18033]

1 minute ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Agree. It would seem to be likely that mom's attitude towards COVID is why her daughter is dead. Hopefully she learns from it but doubtful. Many in this frame of mind console themselves that it's God's will.

They can't take responsibility for anything in their lives...it's the government's fault, it's that immigrant's fault, it's the media's fault, on and fucking on.

No surprise they will never own their own stupid decisions.