CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk

[wildcat09 29454]

It's been awhile since I talked with the administration about my proposal that internet trolls get gibbets. I need to check in and see where they are on that.

[ouflak 60]

24 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

To be clear, I think you're trolling and I wasn't really answering your question, as pointing out the absurdity of your question, as though the federal government could ever successfully force 100% vaccination, which is apparently your idiotic metric of success.  FFS, just stay the fuck home and away from me and my loved ones if you're too fucking selfish to be vaccinated.

If only I was the problem. Unfortunately I've got immediate close family who I'm now rather certain will never be vaccinated. I seriously doubt you will ever come into contact with any of them because I doubt you would ever set foot in those neighborhoods. So that's not an issue. But I will be seeing them. And the frustrating thing is that some of them have a point. I can't overcome a generations of mistrust, that even I was to some extent exposed to as a young child.

And yes, by correctly recognizing that forcing 100% vaccination is indeed an idiotic metric of success, that is indeed the only geniune attempt at answering my question(s). Since it's now must be so obvious that we as a nation are not going to get there, why not drop all of the extreme positions and go for something that can maximize our efforts instead? But I think that is simply to reasonable and middle-of-the-road a consideration. The atmosphere is toxic and there is no room for doing things that might actually work.

 

23 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Or die.  That would also work.

Vaccinated and with only an overall 1.6% mortality rate? Seems highly unlikely. However since that mortality rate is somewhat higher for blacks, atleast in part because of built-in biases in the health care system itself, who knows what awaits me and members of my family?

Edited September 29, 2021 by ouflak

[Guest Lobo]

21 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Reminder, 18 months ago, Fox Business News fired Trish Regan for blowing off covid as another means to remove/impeach Trump.

Here in 2021, she would have her own show in the evening.

 

I'd let her blow me off.  Or on.  Whatever the lingo is these days.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33971]

2 hours ago, 4th&Five said:

 

only about 20 months too late

[Anastasis 23520]

Y'all think that this shit is hot for adults with a clearly positive risk benefit dynamic, just wait until the pedi approvals.  Shit is going to get fucking lit. 

[sidis 9873]

28 minutes ago, ouflak said:

And yes, by correctly recognizing that forcing 100% vaccination is indeed an idiotic metric of success, that is indeed the only geniune attempt at answering my question(s). Since it's now must be so obvious that we as a nation are not going to get there, why not drop all of the extreme positions and go for something that can maximize our efforts instead? But I think that is simply to reasonable and middle-of-the-road a consideration. The atmosphere is toxic and there is no room for doing things that might actually work.

i am trying to give you the benefit of the doubt of not just being another troll...and i have read your relatively redundant posts throughout this thread and i'm somewhat confused by: a) what you are trying to achieve, and b) what your position is.

starting with b, when i read the above, as well as a number of other posts from you asking the same questions, i believe i see you stating with some qualitative ambiguity that you think that taking extreme measures for deploying the vaccine is untenable and unrealistic...specifically reciting the challenges of reaching the african american population and its natural reluctance to participate in the vaccine.  it seems you are advocating for a gentler, white-gloved approach to stop shaming, patronizing, whatever it is you think that people that want other people to protect themselves from the harms of covid are doing by advocating for vaccine.  if, after wading through all the bullshit, i am getting at your central purpose accurately, you are representing to the board that you are trying to have a dialogue on more realistic approaches to the deployment of the vaccine without mandates, without shaming, without putting jobs at risks, without committing political suicide, etc...  in the above, you state that we should "drop all the extreme positions."

but when asked what you think we as a society and the governing institutions in the country should do, this was your response in this very thread.

Quote

I think there should be a vaccine mandate without exception for all people (except obviously those who would literally be killed by the procedure). Even some of those who get medical exemptions should get it under heavy medical supervision. No 'religious' exemptions at all. I believe the vaccine is about to be approved for children. None of this vaccine-to-go-school business. They must vaccine whether they attend a public school or not.

now, this is just my opinion but that appears to be a fairly "extreme" position.  so i am confused about what your position is or for what you are advocating.  you appear to be talking out of both sides of your mouth.  is your pseudo-socratic bullshit intended to drive to an extreme position and convey that half-measures are not going to be effective when there are stubborn simpletons all over the country that will resist?  if so, why say we should drop all the extreme positions.

i think you need to reflect on what it is you are trying to accomplish here in the dialogue you are tirelessly pursuing because you cannot seem to line up your own thoughts.

unless, of course, you are just being a troll in which carry on and you can be relegated to where you belong.

[HornOnTheBayou 8978]

1 hour ago, wildcat09 said:

It's been awhile since I talked with the administration about my proposal that internet trolls get gibbets. I need to check in and see where they are on that.

But how is that going to stop every troll? What about trolls that don't work for large companies or go to school? I mean, look, I'm anti-troll, but I'm just asking questions.

Edited September 29, 2021 by HornOnTheBayou

[ouflak 60]

39 minutes ago, sidis said:

now, this is just my opinion but that appears to be a fairly "extreme" position. 

That part you quoted was indeed the trolling part, as others quickly noticed and pointed out. Don't get me wrong. I do think that the current Biden 'mandate' is barely more than political grandstanding. But we are simply not going to get 100% of the people vaccinated. And it's looking like we're probably not even going to get to that magical herd immunity percentage, atleast not by means of vaccinations. A big reason for that, in my opinion - but I believe based on very sound observation of what's going on around me and expoused by example in this thread, is that so many, encouraged by the media, have taken extreme positions instead of being willing to look for common ground. There are people on several sides of this literally wishing death on those who have different views on all of this, even if they might fundamentally agree on so many other things. I see a strange radicalized "Us" versus "Them" mentality, in what seems to me to ironically be the case that everybody here is "Us", and likewise everybody here is "Them", and yet nobody else sees it. *shrug* So maybe I'm wrong. I refuse to hate anybody because they want to enforce a vaccine mandate, and I refuse to hate anybody because they don't want a vaccine. I think we ought find a way through that everybody can live with and that would be most effective in the long run. But I think that's not going to happen now. I'm frustrated. But I think that the only thing left to do now is wait until Covid finally passes out of the news cycle and media minds, the outrageous headlines no longer get enough clicks, this thread sinks off the first page and we all move on.

 

Maybe then, I can approach some of the people closest to me about getting vaccinated, and it doesn't immediately cause them to throw up a bunch of razorwire heavily armed defenses up.

Edited September 29, 2021 by ouflak

[4th&Five 41725]

 

[C-Man 27413]

5 hours ago, ouflak said:

Just to clarify, I'm not asking whether they should get vaccinated or not, I'm asking whether you guys think that someone who has been confirmed tested positive for both Covid and its antibodies, should still be required by their employer to get a vaccine or lose their job?

It may seem like only a slightly different question. But, as some have posted, it's clear that a good number of people are never going to get vaccinated, even to the point of losing their jobs. Others will provide all sorts of fake evidence that they have been, again never ever actually getting vaccinated. So will get exemptions, perhaps religious, and many will never actually ever be required to get vaccinated if they just don't happen fall under such a mandate because of their life circumstances. So I want to keep the topics separate and get an idea for what people here think.

The thing is there is no universal time that COVID-infected people retain antibodies and therefore "immune" temporarily or otherwise. I had COVID in March 2020. By December 2020, there no detectable antibodies remaining in my system. There is no telling when they went away. I just felt like having an antibody test done again in December. Was I still immune? Maybe. But reports were starting to crop up about people getting COVID possibly for a second time.

 

2 hours ago, cactusflinthead said:

From r/Texas. Dateline Mansfield

 

 

 

 

Nobody told me Chad Briscoe got ordained.

 

1 minute ago, ouflak said:

That part you quoted was indeed the trolling part, as others quickly noticed and pointed out. Don't get me wrong. I do think that the current Biden 'mandate' is barely more than political grandstanding. But we are simply not going to get 100% of the people vaccinated. And it's looking like we're probably not even going to get to that magical herd immunity percentage, atleast not by means of vaccinations. A big reason for that, in my opinion - but I believe based on very sound observation of what's going on around me and expoused by example in this thread, is that so many, encouraged by the media, have taken extreme positions instead of being willing to look for common ground. There are people on several sides of this literally wishing death on those who have different views on all of this, even if they might fundamentally agree on so many other things. I see a strange radicalized "Us" versus "Them" mentality, in what seems to me to ironically be the case that everybody here is "Us", and likewise everybody here is "Them", and yet nobody else sees it. *shrug* So maybe I'm wrong. I refuse to hate anybody because they want to enforce a vaccine mandate, and I refuse to hate anybody because they don't want a vaccine. I think we ought find a way through that everybody can live with and that would be most effective in the long run. But I think that's not going to happen now. I'm frustrated. But I think that the only left to do now is wait until Covid finally passes out of the news cycle and media minds, the outrageious headlines no longer get enough clicks, this thread sinks off the first page and we all move on.

Those of us who are doing the right thing and thinking of society on a grander scale than how if effects just us personally are sick and fucking tired of waiting for some sense of normalcy come back. We'd like to ditch masks. We'd like to travel freely, go to sporting events and concerts, dine at restaurants and not worry about our kids getting COVID from their lab partner at school and bringing it home and getting their grandparents sick. We'd like there to be guaranteed room at the ER's if we happen to have a heart attack or get involved in a serious car accident. The selfish are not allowing us to get back to that as quickly as we could and we are sick and fucking tired of it!

[Gatorubet 30437]

 
Congrats.  After the call, he went to Facebook/Twitter/TikTok/whatever and bitched to his dwindling (chortles) circle of followers how you are nothing more than a librul attorney

He would not be - ‘wrong’.

I have shared a beaker of Mississippi kiddie blood with Soros. (Damn hard to get Mississippi virgin blood once they reach Jr. High. ).

You need to hang with the ultra-rich for that.

[Satoshi 129]

 

[Captainant 28004]

Oh wow GRUhorn found another professional contrarian MD to burnish his credibility with

[Grandioso 2592]

11 minutes ago, Satoshi said:

 

Maybe, slightly, possibly overdramatic and an overreaction. Anyways, Progressivism deserved a better eulogy. 

[Francisco 2.0 32442]

17 minutes ago, Satoshi said:

 

 

Oh, fuck off wanker.  You've downplayed this shit for well over a year now, in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

[sidis 9873]

1 hour ago, ouflak said:

That part you quoted was indeed the trolling part, as others quickly noticed and pointed out. Don't get me wrong. I do think that the current Biden 'mandate' is barely more than political grandstanding. But we are simply not going to get 100% of the people vaccinated. And it's looking like we're probably not even going to get to that magical herd immunity percentage, atleast not by means of vaccinations. A big reason for that, in my opinion - but I believe based on very sound observation of what's going on around me and expoused by example in this thread, is that so many, encouraged by the media, have taken extreme positions instead of being willing to look for common ground. There are people on several sides of this literally wishing death on those who have different views on all of this, even if they might fundamentally agree on so many other things. I see a strange radicalized "Us" versus "Them" mentality, in what seems to me to ironically be the case that everybody here is "Us", and likewise everybody here is "Them", and yet nobody else sees it. *shrug* So maybe I'm wrong. I refuse to hate anybody because they want to enforce a vaccine mandate, and I refuse to hate anybody because they don't want a vaccine. I think we ought find a way through that everybody can live with and that would be most effective in the long run. But I think that's not going to happen now. I'm frustrated. But I think that the only thing left to do now is wait until Covid finally passes out of the news cycle and media minds, the outrageous headlines no longer get enough clicks, this thread sinks off the first page and we all move on.

 

Maybe then, I can approach some of the people closest to me about getting vaccinated, and it doesn't immediately cause them to throw up a bunch of razorwire heavily armed defenses up.

so if i am understanding you right, you were trolling when you proposed a 100% vaccine when someone asked you in good faith what should be done.

now that i understand that, all i am hearing is a bunch of emotional plea for people to stop being mean to each other as a way to move past the pandemic...as if it is the genesis of any sort of tribalism that exists.

do you have any actual, real-world and novel suggestions as to how people who post on facebook memes that getting vaccinated is equivalent to getting the mark of the beast, sharing that to encourage others to feel the same way, and delaying our ability to actually move past the pandemic should be treated other than a bunch of ambiguous, qualitative horseshit?

what is your suggestion to try to slow a pandemic that kills 1,600 people in the united states every day right now?  there is a developed vaccine that has been demonstrated to severely mitigate that number that many of us would like the population to get for inoculation purposes and to quell the propagation of this thing and there are people who, for no actually good reason, are attempting to undermine that.  and then you blame the vaccine advocates for making it an "us vs. them" tribal issue.

i am losing my ability to convince myself you are discussing in good faith here. 

[Don Johnson 4758]

1 hour ago, C-Man said:

The thing is there is no universal time that COVID-infected people retain antibodies and therefore "immune" temporarily or otherwise. I had COVID in March 2020. By December 2020, there no detectable antibodies remaining in my system. There is no telling when they went away. I just felt like having an antibody test done again in December. Was I still immune? Maybe. But reports were starting to crop up about people getting COVID possibly for a second time.

Can't the same be said for vaccine antibodies?  I mean no one who got Pfizer back in January/February expected to be needing to get a booster just 6 months later.  Even that isn't a universal time of the antibodies running out or a definite need.  Just a recommendation for some high risk to be on the safe side.

Those of us with Moderna have no idea what we are supposed to do.  At least with infection you can test for antibodies regularly and easily.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only vaccine antibody test I've seen is the study many around here have participated in.

[C-Man 27413]

1 minute ago, Don Johnson said:

Can't the same be said for vaccine antibodies?  I mean no one who got Pfizer back in January/February expected to be needing to get a booster just 6 months later.  Even that isn't a universal time of the antibodies running out or a definite need.  Just a recommendation for some high risk to be on the safe side.

Those of us with Moderna have no idea what we are supposed to do.  At least with infection you can test for antibodies regularly and easily.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only vaccine antibody test I've seen is the study many around here have participated in.

100%. I'm only pointing that out to the crowd that says, "Well, I've had COVID. I don't need to get the vaccine." The NBA player whose video circulated yesterday comes to mind. Hey genius, when did you have COVID?

I admit I was on the fence about the vaccine last fall when it was becoming close to reality. They weren't sure at that time if you could even get COVID a second time. Why get a vaccine if it wasn't necessary, right? Well, the idea that you could get it twice -- and who the fuck knows about Delta or other strains? -- and my antibodies being gone made the decision to get vaxxed pretty simple. I'll get the booster when I'm advised to get it.

[C-Man 27413]

14 minutes ago, sidis said:

i am losing my ability to convince myself you are discussing in good faith here. 

Narrator: He's not.

[cactusflinthead 27615]

8 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

Can't the same be said for vaccine antibodies?  I mean no one who got Pfizer back in January/February expected to be needing to get a booster just 6 months later.  Even that isn't a universal time of the antibodies running out or a definite need.  Just a recommendation for some high risk to be on the safe side.

Those of us with Moderna have no idea what we are supposed to do.  At least with infection you can test for antibodies regularly and easily.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only vaccine antibody test I've seen is the study many around here have participated in.

I get a vaccine every year.

Last pandemic was influenza right?

Every fucking year if need be. Goats get wormed every year too. Rabies for the critters, plus parvo and whatever else.

Get used to it.

[Don Johnson 4758]

8 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

I get a vaccine every year.

Last pandemic was influenza right?

Every fucking year if need be. Goats get wormed every year too. Rabies for the critters, plus parvo and whatever else.

Get used to it.

As do I.  I am used to it.  Do I need to get a Moderna shot every 12 months?

Edited September 29, 2021 by Don Johnson

[cactusflinthead 27615]

1 minute ago, Don Johnson said:

As do I.  I am used to it.  Do I need to get a Moderna shot every 12 months?

Maybe. I had Pfizer. Why not both?

[Don Johnson 4758]

Just now, cactusflinthead said:

Maybe. I had Pfizer. Why not both?

Do I need to get used to this excellent medical advice?

[Brisketexan 105701]

3 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

Do I need to get used to this excellent medical advice?

SHUTUP AND EAT YOUR HORSE PASTE!  IF YOU DON'T EAT YOUR HORSE PASTE, YOU CAN'T HAVE ANY HCQ!

[Don Johnson 4758]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

SHUTUP AND EAT YOUR HORSE PASTE!  IF YOU DON'T EAT YOUR HORSE PASTE, YOU CAN'T HAVE ANY HCQ!

Do I need to get used to this excellent medical advice?

[cactusflinthead 27615]

5 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

Do I need to get used to this excellent medical advice?

Might want to get used to curt replies as well.

What else do you need from me? What part of allllll the antibodies did you misunderstand?

It's settled that vaccinated individuals have a higher count and a wider variety of antibodies. Why not get as wide a range as is available?

 

[elfenix 34396]

@hayden_horn can you see if @ouflak is also posting from a london IP?

[hayden_horn 11374]

4 minutes ago, elfenix said:

@hayden_horn can you see if @ouflak is also posting from a london IP?

lol it's not london, it's amsterdam.

strange thing is a very much love both those cities, but it seems to be how this sort of trolling works. i understand vpns, and they've forever changed how we figure out trolls, but jesus, it becomes obvious when you take a look.

[kevwun 15964]

Amazon has cloud stuff that runs through the UK and Microsoft has the same thing with the Netherlands.  We have a geo-ip filter on our firewall at work and I had to open up both countries because any website that used AWS or Azure wouldn't work with them blocked.

[TheRealRonWeaver? 1259]

1 hour ago, Satoshi said:

 

I've got a hunch this dude wrote his own Wikipedia entry.

[ouflak 60]

I live in Manchester, England for all those interested. I thought that was in my profile (just checked, it is). All of my family (except wife and kids) lives in Florida and Oklahoma (where I was born). Curiously, my VPN is going through the Netherlands at the moment. Not sure why as it 99% of the time defaults to the UK.

Edited September 29, 2021 by ouflak

[C-Man 27413]

18 minutes ago, ouflak said:

I live in Manchester, England for all those interested. I thought that was in my profile (just checked, it is). All of my family (except wife and kids) lives in Florida and Oklahoma (where I was born). Curiously, my VPN is going through the Netherlands at the moment. Not sure why as it 99% of the time defaults to the UK.

[Anastasis 23520]

Seems like there should be a way to add something like: "posting from: State/Country" under the avatar information. 

[ouflak 60]

9 minutes ago, C-Man said:

I was thinking of that episode when I noticed my VPN! Don't know how many will get that reference though.

Edited September 29, 2021 by ouflak

[Captainant 28004]

I wonder if surly stores any useragent telemetry on posters... If multiple accounts have the same useragent signature, slap em with a sock/troll banner

[DDD Dad 14401]

7 hours ago, fuggled said:

My man, you've asked the same question a dozen times already.  You obviously aren't getting the answer you want to hear.  Would you like to try just putting your opinion out here and see were that goes?

[wildcat09 29454]

14 minutes ago, ouflak said:

I was thinking of that episode when I noticed my VPN! Don't know how many will get that reference though.

Only the secret geniuses like yourself watch one of the longest running TV shows of all time.

[Bama Chick 28596]

I've got a hunch this dude wrote his own Wikipedia entry.

He’s an associate professor at UCSF in hematology/oncology. No public health or epidemiology or infectious disease training.

He got “Twitter famous” for being anti-mask for children and blasting the APA for recommending masks in schools. When actual pediatricians challenged him, he blocked them all on social media.

He’s a frequent subject of derision and ridicule on Med Twitter.

His ambitions seem to be geared toward becoming a “television doctor”.

He’s giving medical advice outside his area of specialty and being an attention whore while doing it.

[NameAlreadyInUse 5141]

4 hours ago, Don Johnson said:

Can't the same be said for vaccine antibodies?  I mean no one who got Pfizer back in January/February expected to be needing to get a booster just 6 months later.  Even that isn't a universal time of the antibodies running out or a definite need.  Just a recommendation for some high risk to be on the safe side.

Those of us with Moderna have no idea what we are supposed to do.  At least with infection you can test for antibodies regularly and easily.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only vaccine antibody test I've seen is the study many around here have participated in.

Umm, I think anyone who was thinking ahead was thinking that this would be a regular part of our lives for a good while and unless everyone in the world quickly went and got the shot, we'd be dealing with ongoing flare ups due to waning effectiveness of vaccines/disease antibodies on a regular basis for at least a few years.  I figured I'd be getting a booster shot periodically, at least.  Now we've gotten enough data to understand that yes, boosters are going to be required and we have a general time frame as well, at least for two of  the vaccines.  I suspect when Moderna turns in their numbers they are going to be pretty similar to Pfizer.  

I mean, you can pretend to be dumb, but all of this stuff logically follows if you think about all the other vaccines that are available for all manner of other diseases in both humans and animals.  The only time we stop with vaccines is when enough people/animals have gotten sick/vaccinated that we've eradicated the illness.  And the only reason we don't get some boosters for diseases that still roam the planet is because there's no one telling us we need to in order to go back to work, or because our risk diminishes for certain diseases as we age out of childhood.  This isn't something new with COVID, this is just maybe something you never thought about before COVID.  But now you know, and you can think about it some, and I'm sure you'll be fine with following the protocol.

[4th&Five 41725]

 

[ROFL BOX 6650]

21 hours ago, ouflak said:

I live in Manchester, England for all those interested. I thought that was in my profile (just checked, it is). All of my family (except wife and kids) lives in Florida and Oklahoma (where I was born). Curiously, my VPN is going through the Netherlands at the moment. Not sure why as it 99% of the time defaults to the UK.

Where in Florida?

[Macanudo 13103]

6 minutes ago, ROFL BOX said:

Where in Florida?

You know, that town on the water.   Near the beach.  Where his Canadian girlfriend moved to after high school.   You wouldn't know her though.

[Biff Tannen 45786]

29 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

 

C'mon down Abbott and Co!

[kevwun 15964]

Please sue Mark Cuban.  He's much smarter and can afford better lawyers.

Edited September 30, 2021 by kevwun

[Post Oak 20359]

1 hour ago, 4th&Five said:

 

As an owner of my favorite team, I'm not a fan of Cuban.  But on this, good for him.

[VivaNaranja 466]

I had to have my car inspected today.  The place was empty except for me and the mechanic.  I walk in wearing my mask. 20 year old mechanic is unmasked.  I shrug to myself and go through the routine handing him keys etc. I go sit in the waiting room and take my mask off since it's empty.  Ten minutes later he calls me up. I put my mask back on and go to pay.

 

Dumb Ass Mechanic: "You know, that mask doesn't work."

Me: "You know, COVID is a respiratory disease."

DAM: "Well, masks are useless.  They've proven that it passes through spores."

Me: "Umm, how do you think spores transmit?  Do you think they roll along on the floor like a marble?  They pass through the air."

DAM: "Well, I had COVID and I have a history of asthma.  I just lost my sense of smell for a few days."

Me: "Do you think perhaps there's a correlation between you refusing to wear a mask and you catching COVID?"

DAM [blank stare]

Guess I know where not to take my car next time.  Idiot World

Edited September 30, 2021 by VivaNaranja

[Gourmand 7776]

23 minutes ago, VivaNaranja said:

Dumb Ass Mechanic: "You know, that mask doesn't work."

To which I'd reply "well I have Covid so I guess you'll find out soon enough."

[conVINCEd 21474]

Crazy ass world we are living in when a 20 year old kid working at Jiffy Lube feels compelled to dispense medical advice to a stranger.

[workswithseed 2139]

On 9/29/2021 at 1:11 PM, hayden_horn said:

lol it's not london, it's amsterdam.

strange thing is a very much love both those cities, but it seems to be how this sort of trolling works. i understand vpns, and they've forever changed how we figure out trolls, but jesus, it becomes obvious when you take a look.

Vpn?

[Francisco 2.0 32442]

JFC.