CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk

[Don Johnson 4753]

1 hour ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

Welp.

https://www.voanews.com/a/south-africa-readies-hospitals-as-omicron-variant-drives-new-covid-19-wave-/6340912.html

Its hard to tell how bad it is with the numbers in that.  Using whole numbers in regards to cases, but percentage increase in regards to hospitalizations.

Omicron is supposed to be more contagious than Delta.  And if cases rise by 700% in a single week (2300 to 16,000), I would expect hospitalizations to rise by a similar measurement.  Which is what 30-40% increase in Covid beds would be.  But that still doesn't mean its bad.

There's a big difference between going from 1 Covid patient to 7 Covid patients in a week or going from 1,000 patients to 7,000 patients.  Both similar increases, but vastly different hospitalization rates.  What is the hospitalization rate?  What is an "alarming number of children under the age of 5?"

I wish these articles would always just lay out the data.  It may be terrible and if so, we need to know.  But feel like they try and present it in a way to get a "welp" or "that....seems really bad."

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

49 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

I completely understand all that.  But I also think South Africa is a bad place to be looking at this at.  Maybe if you are in certain counties with large unvaccinated numbers, then yes, but they are unique, as is most of Southern Africa.  Again, I think we need to see how this is going to impact Europe.  It is still too early to tell if it is severe.  It is the truth however, that this has most likely been in the US for at least a month, perhaps multiple months (same with Europe).  The upticks in hospitalization numbers are coming from places with low vaccination numbers.  But we are still nowhere near the other surges, so we will have to wait and see.  

I really wish people would stop showing case numbers and look at hospitalizations and deaths.  

Unvaccinated or not, the 'mild' story sure seemed premature to me.  Does it not to you?

 

[Don Johnson 4753]

2 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

Unvaccinated or not, the 'mild' story sure seemed premature to me.  Does it not to you?

 

Based on what numbers?

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

3 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

Based on what numbers?

What numbers make it 'mild?'

 

[Don Johnson 4753]

11 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

What numbers make it 'mild?'

 

Like I said, it may be bad, but impossible to tell from the article you linked.  They are not showing us hospitalization rates.  So I guess I don't see enough evidence to say that Fauci's optimism was premature.

Didn't everyone expect this thing to spread like crazy through South Africa?

Edited December 7, 2021 by Don Johnson

[jimmyjazz 45910]

Well, the South African doctor who put out the first alert regarding the omicron variant reported anecdotally that symptoms were "mild", mostly consisting of fatigue, headache, and body ache, with no loss of taste or smell and no significant drop in O2 levels.

But, as said above, that was early, and severe cases tend to take longer to develop.  It will likely take a couple of weeks or longer to get a better read on the risk.

[Red Five 40856]

We have NC caliber basketball and baseball teams. Don't even think about it Omicron. 

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

17 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

Like I said, it may be bad, but impossible to tell from the article you linked.  They are not showing us hospitalization rates.  So I guess I don't see enough evidence to say that Fauci's optimism was premature.

Didn't everyone expect this thing to spread like crazy through South Africa?

Wasn't aware Fauci had said anything.  Just felt like a whole lot of folks clinging to 'its mild' pretty early.  

 

The article said this:

Quote

 

The NICD says the increase in cases in such a short period of time is “unprecedented” in the trajectory of the pandemic, now in its fourth phase in the country.

“Unfortunately, we’re seeing a more than doubling of hospital admissions each day,” said Ian Sanne, an infectious diseases specialist who serves on South Africa’s COVID-19 presidential advisory committee.

 

You're correct, its not a 'rate' publishing.

Here's a long twitter thread on it.  I have no idea how trustworthy this person is or isn't.

 

[Don Johnson 4753]

4 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

Wasn't aware Fauci had said anything.  Just felt like a whole lot of folks clinging to 'its mild' pretty early.  

 

The article said this:

You're correct, its not a 'rate' publishing.

Here's a long twitter thread on it.  I have no idea how trustworthy this person is or isn't.

 

Fauci yesterday.  I find it hard to believe things changed drastically in the last 24 hours.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/06/omicron-covid-variants-risk-profile-starts-to-emerge-with-early-data-.html

“Clearly, in South Africa, omicron has a transmission advantage,” Fauci told CNN, adding that “although it’s too early to make any definitive statements about it, thus far it does not look like there’s a great degree of severity to it.”

“But we’ve really got to be careful before we make any determinations that it is less severe, or really doesn’t cause any severe illness comparable to delta, but thus far the signals are a bit encouraging regarding the severity,” Fauci said.

Edited December 7, 2021 by Don Johnson

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

OK.  Nothing to see here, then.

 

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

5 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

“But we’ve really got to be careful before we make any determinations that it is less severe, or really doesn’t cause any severe illness comparable to delta, but thus far the signals are a bit encouraging regarding the severity,” Fauci said.

This talk right here is like all my family members who are scientists talk.

[Lurch 5930]

Fauci can never be right. He’ll be accused of unwarranted optimism and fear-mongering for the exact same quotes.

That comment is HEAVILY caveated and effectively meaningless.

[Don Johnson 4753]

4 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

This talk right here is like all my family members who are scientists talk.

Trust the science.

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

I've been married to a scientist for a very long time. I learned how to interpret the language and style so that selecting a restaurant could be decided in seconds instead of minutes. It's a process and one learns how to navigate it for a happy marriage.

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

43 minutes ago, Lurch said:

That comment is HEAVILY caveated and effectively meaningless.

Yep.

 

[cactusflinthead 27598]

5 hours ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Not saying it is, but this reads as very fake.

Has real "And these big strong Navy Seals, they come to me with tears in their eyes, and they say 'Mr. President, thank you for saving America. You're the greatest thing to happen to this country'" vibes.

You go on over there and tell them. 

Edit: here ya go. Tell them of your skepticism.

 

Edited December 7, 2021 by cactusflinthead

[Biff Tannen 45678]

Everything I got from that article is exactly what I already knew.

Quote

Unvaccinated people are particularly susceptible to omicron, as are individuals who have not been exposed to COVID-19 before, disease specialist Sanne said.

Get vaxxed you dumb fucks.

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

15 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

You go on over there and tell them. 

Edit: here ya go. Tell them of your skepticism.

 

 

The new widow's line at the end, holy crap.  What, the husband didn't have faith?   

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

Quit being fat, 'merica.

Quote

 

The Coronavirus Attacks Fat Tissue, Scientists Find
The research may help explain why people who are overweight and obese have been at higher risk of severe illness and death from Covid.

Roni Caryn Rabin
By Roni Caryn Rabin
Dec. 8, 2021, 4:05 p.m. ET
From the start of the pandemic, the coronavirus seemed to target people carrying extra pounds. Patients who were overweight or obese were more likely to develop severe Covid-19 and more likely to die.

Though these patients often have health conditions like diabetes that compound their risk, scientists have become increasingly convinced that their vulnerability has something to do with obesity itself.

Now researchers have found that the coronavirus infects both fat cells and certain immune cells within body fat, prompting a damaging defensive response in the body.

“The bottom line is, ‘Oh my god, indeed, the virus can infect fat cells directly,’” said Dr. Philipp Scherer, a scientist who studies fat cells at UT Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas, who was not involved in the research.

“Whatever happens in fat doesn’t stay in fat,” he added. “It affects the neighboring tissues as well.”

The research has not yet been peer-reviewed or published in a scientific journal, but it was posted online in October. If the findings hold up, they may shed light not just on why patients with excess pounds are vulnerable to the virus, but also on why certain younger adults with no other risks become so ill.

The study’s authors suggested the evidence could point to new Covid treatments that target body fat.

“Maybe that’s the Achilles’ heel that the virus utilizes to evade our protective immune responses — by hiding in this place,” Dr. Vishwa Deep Dixit, a professor of comparative medicine and immunology at Yale School of Medicine, said.

The finding is particularly relevant to the United States, which has one of the highest rates of obesity in the world. Most American adults are overweight, and 42 percent have obesity. Black, Hispanic, Native American and Alaska Native people in the U.S. have higher obesity rates than white adults and Asian Americans; they have also been disproportionately affected by the pandemic, with death rates roughly double those of white Americans.

“This could well be contributing to severe disease,”  Dr. Catherine Blish, a professor at Stanford University Medical Center and one of the report’s two senior authors, said. “We’re seeing the same inflammatory cytokines that I see in the blood of the really sick patients being produced in response to infection of those tissues.”

Body fat used to be thought of as inert, a form of storage. But scientists now know that the tissue is biologically active, producing hormones and immune-system proteins that act on other cells, promoting a state of nagging low-grade inflammation even when there is no infection.

Inflammation is the body’s response to an invader, and sometimes it can be so vigorous that it is more harmful than the infection that triggered it.

Fat tissue is composed mostly of fat cells, or adipocytes. It also contains pre-adipocytes, which mature into fat cells, and a variety of immune cells, including a type called adipose tissue macrophages.

Dr. Blish, with colleagues at Stanford and in Germany and Switzerland, carried out experiments to see if fat tissue obtained from bariatric surgery patients could become infected with the coronavirus, and tracked how various types of cells responded.

The fat cells themselves could become infected, the scientists found, yet did not become very inflamed. But certain immune cells called macrophages also could be infected, and they developed a robust inflammatory response.

Even stranger, the pre-adipocytes were not infected, but contributed to the inflammatory response. (The scientists did not examine whether particular variants were more destructive in this regard than others.)

The research team also obtained fat tissue from the bodies of European patients who had died of Covid and discovered the coronavirus in fat near various organs.

The idea that adipose tissue might serve as a reservoir for pathogens is not new, Dr. Dixit said. Body fat is known to harbor a number of them, including H.I.V. and the influenza virus.

The coronavirus appears to be able to evade the body fat’s immune defenses, which are limited and incapable of fighting it effectively. And in people who are obese, there can be a lot of body fat.

A man whose ideal weight is 170 pounds but who weighs 250 pounds is carrying a substantial amount of fat in which the virus may “hang out,” replicate and trigger a destructive immune system response, said Dr. David Kass, a professor of cardiology at Johns Hopkins.

“If you really are very obese, fat is the biggest single organ in your body,” Dr. Kass said.

The coronavirus “can infect that tissue and actually reside there,” he said. “Whether it hurts it, kills it or at best, it’s a place to amplify itself — it doesn’t matter. It becomes kind of a reservoir.”

As the inflammatory response snowballs, cytokines trigger even more inflammation and the release of additional cytokines. “It’s like a perfect storm,” he said.

Dr. Blish and her colleagues speculated that infected body fat may even contribute to “long Covid,” a condition describing troublesome symptoms like fatigue that persist for weeks or months after recovery from an acute episode.

The data also suggest that Covid vaccines and treatments may need to take into account the patient’s weight and fat stores.

“This paper is another wake-up call for the medical profession and public health to look more deeply into the issues of overweight and obese individuals, and the treatments and vaccines we’re giving them,” said Barry Popkin, a professor of nutrition at University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, who has studied the heightened risk that Covid poses to those with obesity.

“We keep documenting the risk they have, but we still aren’t addressing it,” Dr. Popkin said.

 

 

Now if they'll just study my theory on goatees as virus storage pods. 

[DigglerontheHoof 21195]

Fat magas dying....I'm okay w/ that. 

[Don Johnson 4753]

 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33869]

maybe this is the plague we all prayed for. it's taking out the stupid and fat - win?

[Longhorn_Fan68 33869]

maybe this is the plague we all prayed for. it's taking out the stupid and fat - win?

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

1 hour ago, Don Johnson said:

 

Quote

The WHO has warned it could take weeks to determine how infectious the variant is, whether it causes more severe illness and how effective treatments and vaccines are against it.

Well, OK.  

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

Since this is the official political side of the site:

Quote

 

A GOP senator suggested gargling mouthwash to kill the coronavirus. Doctors and Listerine are skeptical.

Sen. Ron Johnson (R-Wis.) recommended mouthwash as a treatment for the coronavirus during a town hall meeting Wednesday, immediately drawing criticism for suggesting gargling would offer protection.

The senator has been criticized for spreading conspiracy theories about the coronavirus and has promoted the use of drugs that have shown little to no evidence that they are effective in treating covid-19. YouTube this year suspended his account for violating the company’s medical misinformation policies. He has also expressed skepticism about the efficacy of coronavirus vaccine mandates and doses, which have undergone vigorous health testing.

His latest remarks run up against medical advice from a major producer of mouthwash and health experts.

“Standard gargle, mouthwash, has been proven to kill the coronavirus,” Johnson said, according to an audio recording of his remarks. “If you get it, you may reduce viral replication. Why not try all these things?”

Johnson later shared on Twitter a study on a public website that concluded mouthwash provides “modest benefits” in lowering viral loads in saliva. That study recruited 176 adults who had tested positive for the virus but were asymptomatic or showing mild symptoms.

Though mouthwash can partially kill off parts of the coronavirus in a person’s mouth, most infections occur through the nose, health experts said. “Even if gargling kills some of the virus, it won’t be able to clean the nasal area, nor the viruses that’s already penetrated deeper into the body,” said Kim Woo-Joo, an infectious-disease expert at Korea University.

“We’re looking at how [mouthwash] actually works on the virus itself rather than what it does to the body. I think those are two separate questions,” Nicholas Rowan, an ear, nose and throat surgeon and assistant professor at Johns Hopkins Medicine, told The Washington Post last year.

Raymond Niaura, interim chair of the epidemiology department at New York University, said that gargling wouldn’t hurt if accompanied by vaccination.

“That way, one would be at reduced risk for infection and have good smelling breath,” he wrote in an email. [AKA, The MC Fresh Breath Method]

A dental-professional-focused website run by Listerine, one of the world’s most widely used mouthwash products, specifically says the evidence is not strong enough to conclude that it is helpful against covid-19.

Listerine “is not intended to prevent or treat COVID-19 and should be used only as directed on the product label,” the website notes in bold.

The senator could not be immediately reached for comment.

Johnson, like many other conservatives, has backed the use of ivermectin as a treatment for covid-19. There is little evidence that the drug used on humans and livestock as an anti-parasitic works against the disease.

The Food and Drug Administration has warned people against using ivermectin to fight the coronavirus, saying such actions could prove lethal. “You are not a horse. You are not a cow. Seriously, y’all. Stop it,” the agency tweeted in August.

What is ivermectin, and how did people get the idea it can treat covid?

Johnson also supported the use of hydroxychloroquine, a drug that was hyped as a potential answer to the coronavirus by President Donald Trump last year.

Numerous studies and health experts have advised against using hydroxychloroquine, particularly when vaccines and, increasingly, other therapeutics are readily available in the United States. In June 2020, a study published in the New England Journal of Medicine found that hydroxychloroquine was no more effective than a placebo — in this case, a vitamin — in protecting people who had been exposed to the coronavirus.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/12/09/ron-johnson-mouthwash-covid/

[Biff Tannen 45678]

1 hour ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

Since this is the official political side of the site:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/12/09/ron-johnson-mouthwash-covid/

He's one of the dumbest in a sea of dumb.  A true believer.

Also, I saw congress overturned the vaccine mandate for businesses with more than 100 employees.  Thanks Manchin and Tester.  JFC.

[DDD Dad 14338]

Is this sort of thing not subject to filibuster? D cannot prevent a vote with fewer than 60 in favor?

Senate rules are arcane to be sure.

[Incredulity 11669]

1 minute ago, DDD Dad said:

Is this sort of thing not subject to filibuster? D cannot prevent a vote with fewer than 60 in favor?

Senate rules are arcane to be sure.

https://www.yahoo.com/now/bidens-vaccine-mandate-face-senate-100000568.html

 

Republicans brought up the repeal for a vote using a procedural tool called the Congressional Review Act, which allows Congress to overturn rules created by federal agencies and only requires 51 votes to pass the Senate.

[DDD Dad 14338]

https://www.yahoo.com/now/bidens-vaccine-mandate-face-senate-100000568.html
 
Republicans brought up the repeal for a vote using a procedural tool called the Congressional Review Act, which allows Congress to overturn rules created by federal agencies and only requires 51 votes to pass the Senate.

Thank you

[Incredulity 11669]

 

Had the same question, heard it described on a podcast this AM.

[workswithseed 2103]

2 hours ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

Since this is the official political side of the site:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/12/09/ron-johnson-mouthwash-covid/

I feel like a name like yours, you were already doing that.

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

I can confirm that Listerine doesn't do squat regarding this virus. I use it religiously, and I just tested positive.

Probably got it the very same day I got my booster, if my math is right. Can confirm it's better to be vaxxed,  -- I had some sniffles last week, but no other symptoms at all. Anyway, double-secret probationary quarantine it is.

[jimmyjazz 45910]

18 minutes ago, Walden Ponderer said:

I can confirm that Listerine doesn't do squat regarding this virus. I use it religiously, and I just tested positive.

Probably got it the very same day I got my booster, if my math is right. Can confirm it's better to be vaxxed,  -- I had some sniffles last week, but no other symptoms at all. Anyway, double-secret probationary quarantine it is.

Hope it remains mild.  What made you test?  Contact tracing from a known case, or the sniffles?

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

Just now, jimmyjazz said:

Hope it remains mild.  What made you test?  Contact tracing from a known case, or the sniffles?

We're in a "party pod" with two other families who have children with the same gene mutation as our son. We all get tested before every get-together.

[deac_tracy 516]

This thread needs more Christmas spirit!

 

 

[jimmyjazz 45910]

Would.

[DDD Dad 14338]

Would.

She’s all yours, cowboy.

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

53 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

I feel like a name like yours, you were already doing that.

I kind of snuck something into that article referencing that.  Was seeing if anyone would catch it.  

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

50 minutes ago, Walden Ponderer said:

I can confirm that Listerine doesn't do squat regarding this virus. I use it religiously, and I just tested positive.

Probably got it the very same day I got my booster, if my math is right. Can confirm it's better to be vaxxed,  -- I had some sniffles last week, but no other symptoms at all. Anyway, double-secret probationary quarantine it is.

Sorry dude.  Let me join the chorus of hope it stays mild.  If so, getting your quarantine time done in-between the holidays is better than losing actual holiday plans.  If you had any, that is.  

[Biff Tannen 45678]

53 minutes ago, Walden Ponderer said:

We're in a "party pod" with two other families who have children with the same gene mutation as our son. We all get tested before every get-together.

Is there a bowl of keys involved in this?

[AnotherUTFan 9740]

I just learned that an old friend and coworker died of COVID this week, he got sick during Thanksgiving i was told. A good dude, though we haven't really kept up since I left. He was several years younger than me. His brother was best friends with Ricky Williams, funny thing to remember. They went to HS together at Patrick Henry in San Diego. Really sad news.

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

Sorry for your loss.  

[Anastasis 23469]

3 hours ago, deac_tracy said:

This thread needs more Christmas spirit!

 

 

What a world. 

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

Good read.  Not a happy one, but a good read.

 

https://www.newyorker.com/science/medical-dispatch/in-new-mexico-the-pandemic-rages-on

 

[Sbbruin 21849]

Jim Brewer is... what's the opposite of funny?

 

[jimmyjazz 45910]

Prior to his freakout over covid policies at various tour stops, Breuer could tell a pretty good story most of the time, and was never political.  He's completely sold out to the Trump base at this point, though.  Seems an odd hill to die on.

[Red Five 40856]

I don’t get it.

[CooterBrown 18007]

He peaked with Goat Boy which was arguably the lamest unfunniest bit to ever air on SNL.

[Guest Lobo]

So as an astute observer of standup comedy over the decades, you got your observational comics, your political comics, your dirty/blue comics, your social commentary comics, your funny story comics, your gag/hook comics, your impression comics, your one-liner comics, your dark comics, and your clean comics.  

Jim Breuer is none of those.  He has created an entirely new type of standup.  Bird Comedy.  Bold move, not sure it's gonna pay off.  

$50 says if Trump wins in 2024, the 2025 Correspondent's dinner will be hosted by Jim Breuer.  

Did anybody have "Bird Comedy" on their 2021 bingo card?  I had "Bird Law", "Bird Box", and "Bird Flu"....but not "Bird Comedy"

[4th&Five 41527]

36 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

He peaked with Goat Boy which was arguably the lamest unfunniest bit to ever air on SNL.