CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk

[Don Johnson 4753]

10 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

disagree.

Covid variants have surged in countries with populations with the highest reasonably possible vax rates.  It was never going to be, "defeated".  

Even if that wasn't true, there are like 4 billion unvaccinated people on the planet.  Alpha didn't come from here.  Delta didn't come from here.  Omicron didn't come from here.  And we don't live on a fortified island.

[RDCanecutter 26426]

During the OG lockdowns, we ate better and cheaper at home, and we've never been the types to order through Doordash and similar, because even though we are jackasses, we are not wasteful jackasses.

The results have been like we got paid thousands of dollars to eat better tasting food and lose 15 pounds of gut. 

Not like we never eat out now, it just turns into "We paid what? For this?" The one good place was a Thanksgiving dinner at a joint on the Pennsylvania/New Jersey borderlands, there were enough Reagan Italians in there to make the trains run on time. Probably got so infected that we all died and just don't know it. Ironically I was the only certifiable non-Italian there yet I encouraged everybody to linger over coffee as the crowds milled about zombie-like on the sidewalk waiting for our table.

[Don Johnson 4753]

1 hour ago, We’reTexas said:

Yes, 44 vaccinated players at Cal tested and they postponed the USC game. Finally the UCSF head AIDS researcher got fed up and wrote a shots-fired op-ed slamming the university’s approach.

I now remember that, but that was just Cal doing the testing, not anything NCAA wide or cnference wide like last season or like what the NFL does.

 

[RomaVicta 29907]

28 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

disagree.

Covid variants have surged in countries with populations with the highest reasonably possible vax rates.  It was never going to be, "defeated".  

 

Thank goodness we didn't even try.

[NWBuck 8552]

16 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Thank goodness we didn't even try.

[InkaUtexas 25918]

Just received this. Daughter still has 2 more finals. 

Dear GW Community Members,

This week, our testing program identified a significant increase in positive COVID-19 cases among members of our university community.  While these cases are not severe and vaccination continues to provide strong protection, it is critical that we act to limit the further spread of cases. In addition, according to the CDC, the Omicron variant is spreading more rapidly as compared to other variants.

Effective immediately, all in-person social gatherings and events are cancelled. In addition, exams scheduled for Friday, December 17, and through the end of the semester will be held virtually.

These actions are consistent with our foremost priority of protecting the health and safety of our students, faculty, and staff.

Students, faculty, and staff will receive more detailed information soon, but we want to share the below guidance with you now:

• Faculty have the option to begin offering virtual exams before Friday.
• Eating is restricted to dining areas only.

We understand that this news comes at an already stressful time during finals and other scheduled end-of-semester activities.  At this time, we have not made any changes regarding spring semester.  We will continue to monitor COVID-19 transmission among our community members and in the region and will update you with more information soon.

 

[jimmyjazz 45915]

1 hour ago, Incredulity said:

disagree.

Covid variants have surged in countries with populations with the highest reasonably possible vax rates.  It was never going to be, "defeated".  

Then explain the sociological logic for scolding someone who decides NOT to unnecessarily increase odds of exposure?  I mean, it's your guy, he's too stupid to step up and make a cogent argument, maybe you can.

[jimmyjazz 45915]

1 hour ago, Don Johnson said:

Even if that wasn't true, there are like 4 billion unvaccinated people on the planet.  Alpha didn't come from here.  Delta didn't come from here.  Omicron didn't come from here.  And we don't live on a fortified island.

It's as if you don't understand how viruses spread.  Let's say 100% of the people in the lower 48 are fully vaccinated, and magically, on the next day 5% of people on inbound airplanes from overseas were covid-positive.  Would that cause a significant uptick in serious disease in the US?

[Don Johnson 4753]

8 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

It's as if you don't understand how viruses spread.  Let's say 100% of the people in the lower 48 are fully vaccinated, and magically, on the next day 5% of people on inbound airplanes from overseas were covid-positive.  Would that cause a significant uptick in serious disease in the US?

Define serious disease.  Is mild or asymptotic Covid 19 a serious disease?   The subject is Covid never going away.  With 4 billion unvaccinated in the world and breakthrough cases very common, I don't see how anyone is surprised its still around here.  In your "magical" scenario, yes, I believe there still would be major outbreaks in cases eventually.  Because 5% more come in the next day.  And the next.  And the next....

ITT in the last 24 hours there is an article about Cornell shutting down its campus with 900 cases despite everyone on campus required to be vaccinated and wear masks.  The NFL players are at 94% and the personnel at 100%, and there is a big outbreak this week.   Thanks to the vaccines (and those groups' age and health) probably not a single one will be at risk.  But still a "significant uptick."

Now, if we were 100% vaccinated, we probably would hardly test and we probably wouldn't know or care that Covid was still around.  But like you said, that's "magical."

[jimmyjazz 45915]

6 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

Define serious disease.  Is mild or asymptotic Covid 19 a serious disease?   The subject is Covid never going away.  With 4 billion unvaccinated in the world and breakthrough cases very common, I don't see how anyone is surprised its still around here.  In your "magical" scenario, yes, I believe there still would be major outbreaks in cases eventually.  Because 5% more come in the next day.  And the next.  And the next....

ITT in the last 24 hours there is an article about Cornell shutting down its campus with 900 cases despite everyone on campus required to be vaccinated and wear masks.  The NFL players are at 94% and the personnel at 100%, and there is a big outbreak this week.   Thanks to the vaccines (and those groups' age and health) probably not a single one will be at risk.  But still a "significant uptick."

Now, if we were 100% vaccinated, we probably would hardly test and we probably wouldn't know or care that Covid was still around.  But like you said, that's "magical."

I just don't understand how people don't see the glaringly obvious truth that a much higher vaccination rate would help, but whatever.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19101]

5 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I just don't understand how people don't see the glaringly obvious truth that a much higher vaccination rate would help, but whatever.

It does.  We need to be at at least 90% fully vaxxed (and fully vaxxed now means with the booster to be clear).  

I am 99.9% certain, without getting this thing sequenced, that I have Omicron.  I have what anyone else would identify as a cold.  I think I was exposed on Sunday, and I started immediately having symptoms.  Given what we have read upthread, that kind of makes sense.  The slight fever I had last night was probably my immune response.  Honestly, I have felt fine.  Have had a lot of energy.  It is kind of nuts and NOT like when other people I know have had COVID.  So if this is what this is moving to, we will be fine.   But we need the whole world to be highly vaccinated.  It gives this thing less vessels to mutate in.  

[Don Johnson 4753]

Just now, jimmyjazz said:

I just don't understand how people don't see the glaringly obvious truth that a much higher vaccination rate would help, but whatever.

Who doesn't see that?  I see that. 

What I disagree with is the idea that the 3% of the world's unvaccinated in the US not getting vaccinated is why this thing isn't long gone. 

It doesn't help.  Its dumb for them.  But if they changed their mind tomorrow the worldwide pandemic isn't over.

The UK just hit its highest daily total.  That means they have more cases in a day at 75% vaccinated than they ever did with 0%.  In fact, the 78k blew past the previous record of 68k. 

 

[Don Johnson 4753]

8 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

It does.  We need to be at at least 90% fully vaxxed (and fully vaxxed now means with the booster to be clear).  

I am 99.9% certain, without getting this thing sequenced, that I have Omicron.  I have what anyone else would identify as a cold.  I think I was exposed on Sunday, and I started immediately having symptoms.  Given what we have read upthread, that kind of makes sense.  The slight fever I had last night was probably my immune response.  Honestly, I have felt fine.  Have had a lot of energy.  It is kind of nuts and NOT like when other people I know have had COVID.  So if this is what this is moving to, we will be fine.   But we need the whole world to be highly vaccinated.  It gives this thing less vessels to mutate in.  

I hope Omicron is a blessing is disguise.  Because it sure seems like everyone* is going to get it sooner or later.

*an exaggeration but it sure seem like nothing is stopping it from spreading.

[jimmyjazz 45915]

8 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

Who doesn't see that?  I see that. 

What I disagree with is the idea that the 3% of the world's unvaccinated in the US not getting vaccinated is why this thing isn't long gone. 

It doesn't help.  Its dumb for them.  But if they changed their mind tomorrow the worldwide pandemic isn't over.

I'm not even remotely suggesting our actions in the US could influence the global pandemic.

I am suggesting that our actions in the US could affect the spread of disease . . . in the US.  1:1 correlation?  No, we allow international travel.  But it would help.  A lot.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19101]

3 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

I hope Omicron is a blessing is disguise.  Because it sure seems like everyone* is going to get it sooner or later.

*an exaggeration but it sure seem like nothing is stopping it from spreading.

No, I think this is accurate.  I think everyone will get this one.  However, if it really is like a cold or flu for 99.9% of the people that get it due to a combination of it being less severe AND more people are vaccinated/boosted, then that is a very, very good thing.

[Don Johnson 4753]

11 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I'm not even remotely suggesting our actions in the US could influence the global pandemic.

Gotcha but that's the conversation you jumped in on when you quoted me.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Don Johnson

[Neonmoon 38129]

8 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

No, I think this is accurate.  I think everyone will get this one.  However, if it really is like a cold or flu for 99.9% of the people that get it due to a combination of it being less severe AND more people are vaccinated/boosted, then that is a very, very good thing.

Yep. Less severe is always a good thing. 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33869]

I just don't get the misinformation campaign that still continues today. People inclined to put an R next to their name are 3x more likely to die from covid. I know it's not an absolute causation/correlation situation, but if I were a high-ranking GOP member, I would be alarmed that of the ~800k US deaths recorded, potentially ~600k were people that might vote for my party. It's amazing, really.

[Anastasis 23469]

53 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

No, I think this is accurate.  I think everyone will get this one.  However, if it really is like a cold or flu for 99.9% of the people that get it due to a combination of it being less severe AND more people are vaccinated/boosted, then that is a very, very good thing.

Agree.  It's gonna hit everyone eventually.  Either you are vaccinated/boosted and primed to response, in which case the outcomes will likely be significantly less severe, or you are going to roll the dice with whatever the current variant is dishing out. All bets off if you get a situation with complete immune escape, but I think thats unlikely.  

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19101]

So, slight update today.  Temp totally back to my normal 97.5.  Congestion is still the worst.  I also am sneezing quite a bit.  Not a significant cough at all.  I have almost no sense of smell and my sense of taste is pretty muted, but that is pretty normal for me when I have significant congestion (years ago, on a trip to Ireland, I either got a sinus infection or a wicked cold, and I could not smell or taste anything...made the Irish Whiskey tasting pretty fucking useless).  Also, my ears are kind of stopped up as well (again, that usually goes hand in hand with congestion for me).    

I have not felt tired or fatigued yet, though I did take an hour nap this afternoon because I could.  I have been very, very thirsty all day. I have had a ton of water, and my mouth feels dry all the time.  

 

[jimmyjazz 45915]

My stepson called us sick for a ride home this AM from his job at HEB -- they were open -- and his symptoms are suspicious, mainly the cough.  He's double vaxxed but not boosted.  We'll see.  Might be our turn.

[ROFL BOX 6649]

23 hours ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

I tend to just throw them in, everywhere, you know.

 

[Asithappens 974]

6 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Is there a reason you care whether or not I dine in at restaurants?  It's not like I've been a big restaurant patron over the last 15-20 years, anyway, given 7 family members plus various hangers on living under my roof for a long time.  I cook.  I'm not paying for anything but date night with my wife when I can cook most of it just as well for 25% of the cost. 

Sorry to disappoint you, ace.

I love both Minnesota and The Clash. You two mofos need to get along.

Unless I got all that wrong, then I'll just slink away.

[jimmyjazz 45915]

13 minutes ago, Asithappens said:

I love both Minnesota and The Clash.

+ rep for being one of the few people who ever gets the user name

[Guest Lobo]

If there can be a Portugal. The Man.  Why can't there be a "Minnesota.  The Clash." band?

csb/ I got high with Mick Jones & Rob Spragg (the Alabama 3) behind Mother Egan's at SXSW in 2008/2009-ish.  Why those two Englishmen chose an EPCOT-themed Irish bar or my lame ass to hang with, I'll never know.  But the fucking stories...

 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Lobo

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

Agree.  It's gonna hit everyone eventually.  Either you are vaccinated/boosted and primed to response, in which case the outcomes will likely be significantly less severe, or you are going to roll the dice with whatever the current variant is dishing out. All bets off if you get a situation with complete immune escape, but I think thats unlikely.  

This and my personal experiences make me wonder if we should quit calling themselves "breakthrough infections."  Especially since it seems lots of folks think more and more vaccinated people will be infected.

Hospitalized versus Non-hospitalized infection maybe?

 

 

 

[DaysOff 7947]

I have a cold, at least that's what my Binax now test says. Nevertheless my company isn't fucking around and I'm on covid protocol for 10 days. I've flown the last 9 Christmas days, so maybe this won't be so bad.

[RDCanecutter 26426]

33 minutes ago, Lobo said:

csb/ I got high with Mick Jones & Rob Spragg (the Alabama 3) behind Mother Egan's at SXSW in 2008/2009-ish.  Why those two Englishmen chose an EPCOT-themed Irish bar or my lame ass to hang with, I'll never know.  But the fucking stories...

Englishmen will ride the ferry back and forth to Calais just to swill beer in a booth that looks like a stripped-down Ruby Tuesdays with the bright lights turned on for power-washing the floor. If they consciously chose any given US bar, it's probably because

1. It was there

2. It was open

3. It was closer than the bus stop bench in the drizzling rain where they had previously decided to drink

[ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2666]

54 minutes ago, Lobo said:

If there can be a Portugal. The Man.  Why can't there be a "Minnesota.  The Clash." band?

csb/ I got high with Mick Jones & Rob Spragg (the Alabama 3) behind Mother Egan's at SXSW in 2008/2009-ish.  Why those two Englishmen chose an EPCOT-themed Irish bar or my lame ass to hang with, I'll never know.  But the fucking stories...

 

Mother Egan's was for micks. The owner was even named Mick. Now we got the triple Mick connection. Serendipity

[Guest Lobo]

Yeah, they were two Irishmen that opened it...they were backed by some Dellionaire angel investors.  Those guys were cool.  Funny thing is every Irish guy associated with the Consulate, Mother Egan's, Fado, B.D. Riley's, or the other joint in midtown---they all drank at Bull McCabe's.  It was their home away from home.  I doubt that place is still there.  Shit, are any of 'em?  

[Mdhorn 5949]

1 hour ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

This and my personal experiences make me wonder if we should quit calling themselves "breakthrough infections."  Especially since it seems lots of folks think more and more vaccinated people will be infected.

Hospitalized versus Non-hospitalized infection maybe?

I got my booster along with the flu shot in October and although I've been fine every time before, the combination put me in the hospital for four days with four blood clots in my lungs.  They labeled it thrombosis even though I haven't traveled nor have been stationary for any period of time.  However, they hadn't had any problems with Pfizer so didn't want to attribute it to it even though that is 100% what it was.  I was told the drugs created a perfect storm and that no, you should not get both the flu and booster together.  I was tested 3 times during the day for COVID and was negative.  Oh well, part of a collapsed lung later along with Xarelto for the next year I guess.  My former boss got a similar thing from her Pfizer booster--both of our clots began in our left leg.  Would I do it again, I'd get the booster and wait a few weeks on the flu shot.   But good luck everybody and stay safe.  Omicron is here now along with probably something else new that hasn't been identified yet.  

[jimmyjazz 45915]

4 minutes ago, Mdhorn said:

I got my booster along with the flu shot in October and although I've been fine every time before, the combination put me in the hospital for four days with four blood clots in my lungs.  They labeled it thrombosis even though I haven't traveled nor have been stationary for any period of time.  However, they hadn't had any problems with Pfizer so didn't want to attribute it to it even though that is 100% what it was.  I was told the drugs created a perfect storm and that no, you should not get both the flu and booster together.  I was tested 3 times during the day for COVID and was negative.  Oh well, part of a collapsed lung later along with Xarelto for the next year I guess.  My former boss got a similar thing from her Pfizer booster--both of our clots began in our left leg.  Would I do it again, I'd get the booster and wait a few weeks on the flu shot.   But good luck everybody and stay safe.  Omicron is here now along with probably something else new that hasn't been identified yet.  

Good lord.  I'm glad you're doing better (I hope)?

[Incredulity 11669]

... any condescending lectures about vax and boosters from Surly Leftists, given the above?

Edited December 16, 2021 by Incredulity

[DDD Dad 14338]

Just now, Incredulity said:

any condescending lectures about vax and boosters from Leftist given the above?

Oh you.gif

[Incredulity 11669]

Just now, DDD Dad said:

Oh you.gif

Own your shit fuckwad.

[JimmyJames 12271]

5 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

... any condescending lectures about vax and boosters from Surly Leftists, given the above?

Yes you should get them and if you don’t you’re a complete dumbass.

[Incredulity 11669]

Just now, JimmyJames said:

Yes you should get them and if you don’t you’re a complete dumbass.

"damn the torpedos"

[Born to Run 6569]

+ rep for being one of the few people who ever gets the user name

Wait a minute, only a few people know The Clash? Gee Wally...

[jimmyjazz 45915]

4 minutes ago, Born to Run said:

1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

+ rep for being one of the few people who ever gets the user name

Wait a minute, only a few people know The Clash? Gee Wally...

You'd be surprised.  Half this board probably thinks you took on a John Mellencamp user name.

[Biff Tannen 45678]

14 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

... any condescending lectures about vax and boosters from Surly Leftists, given the above?

Has there been a big push to get both the flu and Covid vax at the same time?

[RDCanecutter 26426]

5 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

"damn the torpedos"

Which was an actual battle cry that led to a victory, Battle of Mobile Bay. I sense that you mentioned it thinking it was foolhardy or something.

But put me in the No-Lecture camp as regards vaccines. I don't care if you get one or not.

[Incredulity 11669]

Just now, Biff Tannen said:

Has there been a big push to get both the flu and Covid vax at the same time?

laughable.  

[Biff Tannen 45678]

38 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Yeah, they were two Irishmen that opened it...they were backed by some Dellionaire angel investors.  Those guys were cool.  Funny thing is every Irish guy associated with the Consulate, Mother Egan's, Fado, B.D. Riley's, or the other joint in midtown---they all drank at Bull McCabe's.  It was their home away from home.  I doubt that place is still there.  Shit, are any of 'em?  

BD Riley’s still exists at Mueller, last I checked. 

[Biff Tannen 45678]

1 minute ago, Incredulity said:

laughable.  

I keep up with this thread pretty much every day. Quote it for me please. If I missed it, I’ll admit it. 

[DDD Dad 14338]

15 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Own your shit fuckwad.

[Anastasis 23469]

48 minutes ago, Mdhorn said:

I got my booster along with the flu shot in October and although I've been fine every time before, the combination put me in the hospital for four days with four blood clots in my lungs.  They labeled it thrombosis even though I haven't traveled nor have been stationary for any period of time.  However, they hadn't had any problems with Pfizer so didn't want to attribute it to it even though that is 100% what it was.  I was told the drugs created a perfect storm and that no, you should not get both the flu and booster together.  I was tested 3 times during the day for COVID and was negative.  Oh well, part of a collapsed lung later along with Xarelto for the next year I guess.  My former boss got a similar thing from her Pfizer booster--both of our clots began in our left leg.  Would I do it again, I'd get the booster and wait a few weeks on the flu shot.   But good luck everybody and stay safe.  Omicron is here now along with probably something else new that hasn't been identified yet.  

Whoa. That really sucks.  Wife just did both at the same time with no ill effects.  

[Anastasis 23469]

MD, what was your first shot?  JNJ by chance in the mix?  

Edited December 16, 2021 by Anastasis

[Incredulity 11669]

23 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I keep up with this thread pretty much every day. Quote it for me please. If I missed it, I’ll admit it. 

dude, I know you will want to pedant any post regarding the need for boosters and flu shots.   

Is your position that the threads consensus hasn't been, "I want boosters like skittles"?(rep to whomever coined that before)

[Biff Tannen 45678]

1 minute ago, Incredulity said:

dude, I know you will want to pedant any post regarding the need for boosters and flu shots.   

Is your position that the threads consensus hasn't been, "I want boosters like skittles"?(rep to whomever coined that before)

Boosters, sure. Boosters plus another vax?  Haven’t seen it. That’s literally what you said. 

[Anastasis 23469]

I will take boosters like skittles and a few anecdotes regarding serious adverse events won't change that. 

Of course, I also have a look at the hazard ratios for PE, DVT, and Stroke post COVID vs. matched controls. 

If there is data that the risk of clots associated with boosting outweighs the risk of clots associated with acute COVID and post acute recovery, I'll reconsider.

Until then, gigavax.