CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,130]

Has this been posted anywhere?

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/586539-nih-director-says-trump-republicans-pressured-him-to-back-unproven

On his last day as director of the National Institute of Health (NIH), Francis Collins spoke on how former President Trump pressured him to endorse unproven medical treatments for COVID-19, such as "hydroxychloroquine and blood plasma."

Speaking with "CBS Sunday Morning" correspondent Rita Braver, Collins said, "I have done everything I can to stay out of any kind of political, partisan debates, because it really is not a place where medical research belongs."

However, Collins said he often had to face off against Trump for his refusal to recommend medical treatments for COVID-19 that had not been shown to improve illnesses.

"And I got into a difficult place, and got a bit of a talking-to by the President of the United States about this," he said. "But I stuck my ground."

Sunday was Collins' last day as NIH director after 12 years as the head of the agency. Braver asked Collins if he would have resigned instead of submitting to the White House's demands.

"Yeah, I was not going to compromise scientific principles to just hold onto the job," said Collins, adding that he also refused demands from right-wing lawmakers that Anthony Fauci, now President Biden's chief medical adviser, be fired.

"Can you imagine a circumstance where the director of the NIH, somebody who believes in science, would submit to political pressures and fire the greatest expert in infectious disease that the world has known, just to satisfy political concerns?" said Collins.

When asked about any regrets on how the COVID-19 pandemic was handled, Collins said he wished that the "problem of hesitancy" had been studied more and that he did not foresee so many people refusing the vaccine once they were made available.

With Collins' retirement from the NIH, the agency's principal deputy director Lawrence Tabak will serve as the acting director of the NIH beginning on Monday.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,130]

And another one.  Collins is telling it like it is.

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/586548-collins-warns-1-million-covid-19-infections-per-day-possible-in-us?utm_source=thehill&utm_medium=widgets&utm_campaign=es_recommended_content

Francis Collins, the outgoing National Institutes of Health director, warned on Sunday that the U.S. could clock 1 million COVID-19 infections per day if Americans don’t take coronavirus precautions.

The retiring NIH director, whose last day was Sunday, cautioned on NPR’s “Weekend Edition” that the highly transmissible omicron variant could still spark millions of cases in the U.S., even if it ends up causing milder disease. 

“Even if it has a somewhat lower risk of severity, we could be having a million cases a day if we’re not really attentive to all of those mitigation strategies,” he said. “And you know a small fraction of a big number is still a really big number.”

 

“I don’t know that we’ll hit that but there are certainly projections that say that could happen with a virus that seems to doubling most places where it’s been every two to four days,” he added.

While at least 43 states have detected the omicron strain, scientists say the current increases in cases, hospitalizations and deaths can be attributed to the delta variant, which the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) estimates makes up almost 97 percent of all U.S. COVID-19 cases. 

Increased spread of the omicron strain with 57 different mutations could further strain U.S. testing capacity and hospitals, experts have said. 

Collins said he worries “a lot” about the stressed health care system and the possibility of temporarily losing health care workers who catch the virus.   

"I know people are tired of this," he said. "I'm tired of it too, believe me. But the virus is not tired of us.”

The CDC considers a majority of counties in the U.S. to have high and substantial transmission ahead of the holiday weekend.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,130]

And I find it funny the CDC and NY are still thinking this wave is Delta.  This shit that is circulating in NYC is NOT Delta.  It is Omicron.  

[Biff Tannen 45,695]

3 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

"Can you imagine a circumstance where the director of the NIH, somebody who believes in science, would submit to political pressures and fire the greatest expert in infectious disease that the world has known, just to satisfy political concerns?" said Collins.

And here's where the right stopped reading.  

[DDD Dad 14,346]

Has this been posted anywhere?
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/586539-nih-director-says-trump-republicans-pressured-him-to-back-unproven

On his last day as director of the National Institute of Health (NIH), Francis Collins spoke on how former President Trump pressured him to endorse unproven medical treatments for COVID-19, such as "hydroxychloroquine and blood plasma."

Speaking with "CBS Sunday Morning" correspondent Rita Braver, Collins said, "I have done everything I can to stay out of any kind of political, partisan debates, because it really is not a place where medical research belongs."

However, Collins said he often had to face off against Trump for his refusal to recommend medical treatments for COVID-19 that had not been shown to improve illnesses.

"And I got into a difficult place, and got a bit of a talking-to by the President of the United States about this," he said. "But I stuck my ground."

Sunday was Collins' last day as NIH director after 12 years as the head of the agency. Braver asked Collins if he would have resigned instead of submitting to the White House's demands.

"Yeah, I was not going to compromise scientific principles to just hold onto the job," said Collins, adding that he also refused demands from right-wing lawmakers that Anthony Fauci, now President Biden's chief medical adviser, be fired.

"Can you imagine a circumstance where the director of the NIH, somebody who believes in science, would submit to political pressures and fire the greatest expert in infectious disease that the world has known, just to satisfy political concerns?" said Collins.

When asked about any regrets on how the COVID-19 pandemic was handled, Collins said he wished that the "problem of hesitancy" had been studied more and that he did not foresee so many people refusing the vaccine once they were made available.

With Collins' retirement from the NIH, the agency's principal deputy director Lawrence Tabak will serve as the acting director of the NIH beginning on Monday.

But you forget that he posted a dorky folk song video about COVID. /Anastasis

[babysdaddy 2,725]

21 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

And I find it funny the CDC and NY are still thinking this wave is Delta.  This shit that is circulating in NYC is NOT Delta.  It is Omicron.  

Do we know that? Is NY sequencing these positive cases?  I haven't seen anything one way or another confirming Omicron versus Delta, just that a handful of cases have been Omicron.  I know yours was a mild case and it seems like NY hospitals are not being overrun however the city has a very high vax rate.  

[babysdaddy 2,725]

 

Thread response from Bhattacharya on Collins.  Leadership turnover in this case is a good thing, regardless of how you feel about Collins, given how certain segments of the population take information from him.  Fauci should probably step down as well for the same reason (guy is a lightening rod and half the country won't listen to him regardless of what he says).

[tchookem 3,905]

In all honesty and no snark, this is the most bullshit thing they do.  "If you just wouldn't be so 'woke' and annoying, we wouldn't have to vote for this absolute shitbag human being that in no way really personifies our real feelings!!1!!"
 
This is how they excuse what they do.  It's yet another way to avoid responsibility in the party of personal responsibility. 

Yes, the fraternal twin of "If you'd just ignore our partisan bullshit and not call us on it, we wouldn't be forced to deflect by calling you partisan, so now we have to double down on the partisan bullshit. Why do you make everything political?"

[DDD Dad 14,346]

 
Thread response from Bhattacharya on Collins.  Leadership turnover in this case is a good thing, regardless of how you feel about Collins, given how certain segments of the population take information from him.  Fauci should probably step down as well for the same reason (guy is a lightening rod and half the country won't listen to him regardless of what he says).

The Great Barrington Declaration was total bullshit. Characterizing the mounting of a response wasn’t coordinated propaganda (at least as the term propaganda is generally considered false information).

To the extent it was an effort to counter the bullshit to save lives by using “propaganda” , that is, a coordinated message to present facts to protect the public, I’m okay with that.

[Aqua Buddha 14,599]

35 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

And I find it funny the CDC and NY are still thinking this wave is Delta.  This shit that is circulating in NYC is NOT Delta.  It is Omicron.  

Likely true.

Also, to Gottlieb’s point, SA cases spiked and collapsed all in a few weeks.  Hospitalizations and deaths never spiked.  His working theory is that it was extremely contagious and the real number is 10x reported and even still, there wasn’t a big uptick.

[BrickHorn 18,258]

42 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

And I find it funny the CDC and NY are still thinking this wave is Delta.  This shit that is circulating in NYC is NOT Delta.  It is Omicron.  

Omicron might be taking over, but the data suggests that this December spike was almost entirely driven by delta: https://coronavirus.health.ny.gov/covid-19-variant-data

 

 

[babysdaddy 2,725]

14 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

The Great Barrington Declaration was total bullshit. Characterizing the mounting of a response wasn’t coordinated propaganda (at least as the term propaganda is generally considered false information).

To the extent it was an effort to counter the bullshit to save lives by using “propaganda” , that is, a coordinated message to present facts to protect the public, I’m okay with that.

So we are clear, I was not endorsing the GBD (and hadn't really even heard about it until this past weekend) , just information for discussion around here in the political thread 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,881]

Can't wait for someone to try to convince me that this is somehow wrong and that vaccines still don't work

 

[elfenix 34,331]

nsiap

 

[JimmyJames 12,271]

2 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Can you elaborate on the manner in which Democrats politicized the virus?

Sure thing. They weaponized a hoax virus in order to take down trump to prevent him from being re-elected. 
 

Seriously to “both sides” this is incredibly stupid. Do we really need to pull up all the video from the right wing hate machine pundits who repeatedly called the virus a hoax through the entire month of February, 2020? Or the right wing politician idiots like MTG, Palin and that GED short bus whore from Colorado minimizing it to this very day? 
 

To this day there are right wing mouthbreathing morons who still think it was and is a democratic hoax all because of how the republicans politicized the virus from the very beginning and still are with their “muh freedumbs” anti vaccine stances. 
 

He’ll just yesterday trump himself and Bill Oreilly got boos for telling their audience of morons they themselves were triple vaxed and that it saves lives. 
 

Only one side made a pandemic political and it was the Republican Party of under educated stupidity. 

[TwiceHorn 31,514]

12 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

So we are clear, I was not endorsing the GBD (and hadn't really even heard about it until this past weekend) , just information for discussion around here in the political thread 

Whether it was bullshit or not (I think it probably was), basically is not susceptible to proof, either way.  It was a matter of educated speculation about which reasonable minds could differ.

What is interesting is that it was spawned by an economic think tank that seems to be somewhat right-oriented, although ostensibly non-partisan.  https://www.aier.org/article/the-great-barrington-declaration-one-year-on/

That CDC muckety-mucks disagreed with it is not partisan politics, although it probably falls within the broader "matter of policy" umbrella of politics.   It's not surprising that those who are primarily health-driven, with a side of economics, disagree with those who are economics-driven, with a side of health.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,881]

thinking the party is coming to grips with the fact that they've killed 500k+/- of their constituents and it might be time to change the messaging

but probably not.

[Anastasis 23,481]

57 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

Do we know that? Is NY sequencing these positive cases?  I haven't seen anything one way or another confirming Omicron versus Delta, just that a handful of cases have been Omicron.  I know yours was a mild case and it seems like NY hospitals are not being overrun however the city has a very high vax rate.  

Here are the NY variant data, from:https://coronavirus.health.ny.gov/covid-19-variant-data

The Omicron variant was first confirmed in New York State on December 2, 2021. For samples of SARS-CoV-2 collected between November 21 and December 4, 2021 from New York that are sequenced and entered into GISAID, 1.1% were the Omicron variant.

Between December 5 and December 11, CDC’s program for HHS Region 2 (New York, New Jersey, Virgin Islands, Puerto Rico) estimated 13.1% of samples were the Omicron variant, compared to 2.0% in the previous one-week period

 

Probably not dominant strain yet, but heading that direction with a bullet.  I think that UK went majority omicron a few days ago. 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,130]

1 hour ago, babysdaddy said:

Do we know that? Is NY sequencing these positive cases?  I haven't seen anything one way or another confirming Omicron versus Delta, just that a handful of cases have been Omicron.  I know yours was a mild case and it seems like NY hospitals are not being overrun however the city has a very high vax rate.  

 

41 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

Omicron might be taking over, but the data suggests that this December spike was almost entirely driven by delta: https://coronavirus.health.ny.gov/covid-19-variant-data

 

 

The current spike is Omicron.  Perhaps the earlier shit was Delta, especially the stuff driving upstate, but the stuff in NYC is absolutely Omicron.

1.  They are not testing all samples.  

2.  You saw that between December 5 and December 11, it went from 97.5 Delta to 86.5 Delta (i.e. Omicron came on really strong).  That is significant.  We are already 10 days past December 11.

[tx 3 putt 77,245]

 

 

 

[Biff Tannen 45,695]

30 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

He’ll just yesterday trump himself and Bill Oreilly got boos for telling their audience of morons they themselves were triple vaxed and that it saves lives. 

This is fantastic.  Just the dumbest people.  And there are MILLIONS of them.  History will look back at this as a massive failure of education.

[The Royal We 3,072]

33 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

This is fantastic.  Just the dumbest people.  And there are MILLIONS of them.  History will look back at this as a massive failure of education success of disinformation.

FIFY

[atomheartbevo 89,762]

1 hour ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

thinking the party is coming to grips with the fact that they've killed 500k+/- of their constituents and it might be time to change the messaging

but probably not.

Trump doesn't give a shit about the party.  He's just pissed that other people/companies are getting credit for the vaccine rollout.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,881]

and none of us can travel because these fucks won't get vaccinated. I finally have money and opportunity to travel, and I can't. I hate this fucking timeline.

 

Edited December 20, 2021 by Longhorn_Fan68

[TwiceHorn 31,514]

A couple of interesting tidbits from the patent front on Moderna.

First, and less political, Moderna was trying to invalidate the patents of Arbutus Biopharma relating to lipid nanoparticles, which are evidently a key component to delivery of mRNA vaccines.  It has lost in those attempts. https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/moderna-loses-bid-to-invalidate-vaccine-delivery-patents-teeing-up-potential-lawsuit  Less money for Moderna, as it is probably going to have to pay Arbutus, probably Pfizer also.

More interesting on the political front, Moderna and NIH were embroiled in a dispute as to whether NIH scientists should be named inventors on the vaccine patent(s).  That's a very tricky question, but Moderna appears to have conceded that the NIH scientists are proper inventors.  https://www.cbsnews.com/news/moderna-covid-vaccine-patent-dispute-national-institutes-health/

That means that the US government is now co-owner of the Moderna vaccine patent and is free to license it to whomever it deems appropriate, on whatever terms it deems appropriate.

It still doesn't solve the "know-how" problems in actually making the vaccine.

[Bozo_Casanova 26,511]

6 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

First Randalls appointment I was able to get was January 5th.  I'm calling them daily, though, just in case one frees up.  I got a Tarrytown Pharmacy slot on Dec 28, so that's better.

East Austin Medicine shop does walk-ins,  and APH is doing walk in clinics at multiple locations almost every day. 

[Anastasis 23,481]

Costco does walkins as well, or at least has been doing them recently. 

[Anastasis 23,481]

21 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

That means that the US government is now co-owner of the Moderna vaccine patent and is free to license it to whomever it deems appropriate, on whatever terms it deems appropriate.

US taxpayers should definitely get a return on their investment, whether financial or otherwise. 

[Willfully Horn 8,041]

Our own TB has shared the hardship she and her colleagues face, and that toll isn’t going to disappear any time soon.

I read a Reddit post by a doctor who has thrown in the towel. I surely don’t blame any who do, though I do fear what might happen if the resignations become more commonplace.

I’ll link the hellish post; it is a first hand account of this doc’s breaking point, and it wasn’t Covid or dying patients that pushed him over the edge. It was the crazy roaring throughout our country. And, though the doc doesn’t state it, the crazy sprung from TFG.

https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/comments/rakxun/my_career_of_treating_patients_has_ended/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

[Anastasis 23,481]

Wellthatescalatedquickly.gif

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#variant-proportions

Not sure how accurate their model is, but for what it is worth this would suggest that omicron is predominant variant in most of the country.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,881]

7 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Wellthatescalatedquickly.gif

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#variant-proportions

Not sure how accurate their model is, but for what it is worth this would suggest that omicron is predominant variant in most of the country.

that has been reported all day today. reading around 70-75% of all new cases are omicron

[Macklemore 2,873]

At this point in the pandemic, 2 years in with readily available vaccines with public fatigue, does anyone really think re-imposing a mask mandate will have any real effect. Imposing and lifting mask mandates every few months like a yo-yo. Wore my mask all the time when mandated and have gotten the vaccine and booster. Sick and tired of this bs by overzealous government Karens. Take your mask and shove it DC.

Edited December 20, 2021 by Macklemore

[JimmyJames 12,271]

4 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

At this point in the pandemic, 2 years in with readily available vaccines with public fatigue, does anyone really think re-imposing a mask mandate will have any real effect. Imposing and lifting mask mandates every few months like a yo-yo. Wore my mask all the time and have gotten vaccine and booster. Sick and tired of this bs by overzealous government Karens. Take your mask and shove it DC.

I’m sick and tired of whinny ass bitches like you saying masky hurt facey. Get over it.

Edited December 20, 2021 by JimmyJames

[Walden Ponderer 12,639]

3 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

I’m sick and tired of whinny ass bitches like you saying masky hurt facey. Get over it.

No shit. I wore a mask even when it wasn't required. It was no big deal. Never has been. Why the hell anybody feels oppressed by a mask is a goddamned mystery.

[Biff Tannen 45,695]

5 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

I’m sick and tired of whinny ass bitches like you saying masky hurt facey. Get over it.

This. It’s not that big of a deal. Man up and do something good for your fellow man for once. Even if you don’t believe it does anything, you’ve been doing it for two years, what’s another couple of months?  Fucking snowflakes. My god. 

[tx 3 putt 77,245]

[atomheartbevo 89,762]

26 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

I’m sick and tired of whinny ass bitches like you saying masky hurt facey. Get over it.

20 minutes ago, Walden Ponderer said:

No shit. I wore a mask even when it wasn't required. It was no big deal. Never has been. Why the hell anybody feels oppressed by a mask is a goddamned mystery.

19 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

This. It’s not that big of a deal. Man up and do something good for your fellow man for once. Even if you don’t believe it does anything, you’ve been doing it for two years, what’s another couple of months?  Fucking snowflakes. My god. 

I'm going to be pretty much wearing a mask from here on out when I'm out in public shopping or whatever.

Because if shit goes sideways, I'm going to be wearing a motherfucking mask so that it's harder to ID me on the surveillance video and social media.

 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,130]

43 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Wellthatescalatedquickly.gif

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#variant-proportions

Not sure how accurate their model is, but for what it is worth this would suggest that omicron is predominant variant in most of the country.

73% of all new cases.  I would like to say told you so to the people upthread who told me the current surge in NYC was Delta.  No, it isn't.  It is definitely Omicron.  And I am 99% sure the version I caught was Omicron.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,130]

32 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

At this point in the pandemic, 2 years in with readily available vaccines with public fatigue, does anyone really think re-imposing a mask mandate will have any real effect. Imposing and lifting mask mandates every few months like a yo-yo. Wore my mask all the time when mandated and have gotten the vaccine and booster. Sick and tired of this bs by overzealous government Karens. Take your mask and shove it DC.

You are such a whiny cunt.  

[Macklemore 2,873]

35 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

I’m sick and tired of whinny ass bitches like you saying masky hurt facey. Get over it.

Wear one if you want, leave me the fuck alone. I refuse to wear one unless forced. Fuck the government for mandating it at this point. 2 fucking years in. The government can shove it.

[Biff Tannen 45,695]

1 minute ago, Macklemore said:

Wear one if you want, leave me the fuck alone. I refuse to wear one unless forced. Fuck the government for mandating it at this point. 2 fucking years in. The government can shove it.

[staboner 4,984]

[Macklemore 2,873]

35 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

This. It’s not that big of a deal. Man up and do something good for your fellow man for once. Even if you don’t believe it does anything, you’ve been doing it for two years, what’s another couple of months?  Fucking snowflakes. My god. 

That’s the point. It’s been 2 years. The media fear-mongering and handwringing about another variant that causes mild symptoms amongst the vaccinated. Enough. If we leave it up to St. Fauci and the other assholes in charge, this will never end.

Edited December 21, 2021 by Macklemore

[Guest]

4 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Trump doesn't give a shit about the party.  He's just pissed that other people/companies are getting credit for the vaccine rollout.

Trump likes him some Trump.  That has never changed.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,130]

2 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

That’s the point. It’s been 2 years. The media fear-mongering and handwringing about another variant that causes mild symptoms amongst the vaccinated. Enough. If we leave it up to St. Fauci and the other assholes in charge, this will never end.

Do us all a favor and stay the fuck out of the Northeast if you are not willing to wear a fucking mask.  NYC definitely doesn't want or need selfish assholes like you.  

[bolverk 29,700]

1 minute ago, Macklemore said:

Wear one if you want, leave me the fuck alone. I refuse to wear one unless forced. Fuck the government for mandating it at this point. 2 fucking years in. The government can shove it.

"The government..." Icono, you live in fucking Houston. Unless you're hopping on a flight anytime soon, you don't have to wear a damn mask virtually anywhere by order of "the government."

Personally, living in Austin, I've been voluntarily wearing one almost everywhere (especially outdoors) all the time since last week, because it helps with cedar fever. Besides, with the cooler weather, it's no big deal...at all. 

Do you get this worked up about having to wear a shirt and shoes in 7-11? Stop acting like a child.

[jimmyjazz 46,001]

1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

East Austin Medicine shop does walk-ins,  

THANK YOU.

I called, they said they don't do appointments, most waits were short, so I buzzed over there and had to wait about 10 seconds after filling out the paperwork.

What a relief.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Do us all a favor and stay the fuck out of the Northeast if you are not willing to wear a fucking mask.  NYC definitely doesn't want or need selfish assholes like you.  

LOlz  Not true at all.  Wait I see one Giants fan with a mask, and 1 Dallas fan.

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by slorch

[NameAlreadyInUse 5,114]

Wait, didn't Icono self ban from Cloak Room, and now he's created a sock just for the purpose of posting in Cloak Room? 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,130]

1 minute ago, slorch said:

LOlz  Not true at all.

 

You do realize that Giants stadium is in New Jersey, right?  It isn't in NYC.