CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk

[Johnny Sack 8397]

5 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

You do realize that rooting for someone’s death has absolutely no effect on the likelihood of their dying right?

 

Their vaccination status on the other hand has a pretty fucking big impact on that likelihood should they contract Covid

This is true.  Adults should vaccinate.  If they don't, they could be one of the small percentage of people who die from Covid.  If they do vaccinate, their odds of surviving are much higher.  It's like wearing a seatbelt.

I see zero reason to vaccinate kids.

Edited December 30, 2021 by Johnny Sack

[Incredulity 11564]

1 minute ago, Sawbonz said:

You do realize that rooting for someone’s death has absolutely no effect on the likelihood of their dying right?

 

Their vaccination status on the other hand has a pretty fucking big impact on that likelihood should they contract Covid

Lol.

So your standard is, as long as it isn’t murder.

 

[cactusflinthead 27595]

5 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

 

I see zero reason to vaccinate kids.

What bullshit is this?

 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

2 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

What bullshit is this?

 

Common sense.  You are immune to it though.

[Brisketexan 104744]

2 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

What our politicians and parents have done to children and young adults who are at no risk of death in the name of Covid is criminal. Not just mental health she mentioned, but the education our most vulnerable kids were denied -- mostly by Democrat politicians in blue states and cities.

 

 

 

I don't disagree that the shutdown of schools for an extended period had serious cascading consequences.

But I will say this.....it seems that most officials, of all political parties and stripes, are of the mind that any additional shutdown of schools should be avoided if AT ALL possible.  Even during the Delta surge and the current surge, the consensus seems to be "keep the schools open."  That's a good thing.  We have learned -- perhaps at some significant cost -- but we have nonetheless learned, and have adjusted course to strike the right balance.

As opposed to the approach to vaccines by the GQP, which is continued enmity, flat-out lies, and strident opposition (see Senator Ron Johnson just the other day).  I can accept the concept of initial vaccine hesitancy and fear -- it's a novel thing, without significant treatment history behind it.  AND, initially, even trial data didn't tell us how effective they would REALLY be at reducing severe disease/death.  So, while I don't agree with the calculus, I could at least understand the folks who said "I'd rather wait."  Kind of like I may not have agreed with the calculus, but I could at least understand the initial shutdown of schools.  But now that we have a clearer picture, the mindless opposition to and false characterizations of vaccines is unsupportable, unforgivable, and has human costs.

We made bad decisions early on regarding schools, but across the board, we have learned and reversed course.  Whatever harm we caused, we have stopped causing it.

We did a good thing early on regarding vaccines, but even having learned that, an entire political movement is built on opposing them.  It is still causing harm.

The contrast is telling.

[4th&Five 41462]

 

[cactusflinthead 27595]

@Johnny Sack

So no childhood vax for the kids? Or just not this one?

[Brisketexan 104744]

8 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

I see zero reason to vaccinate kids.

So....being that every parent I know has caught viral illnesses their kids brought home, that seems to be a pretty good reason to vaccinate kids.  Not just as potential patients (which they are -- COVID still DOES cause severe illness in some children, albeit at a much lower rate than among adults), but also as virus vectors.  That's always been a reason for a broad vaccination campaign -- to reduce the spread of an illness.  And yes, vaccines due REDUCE transmission (they don't eliminate it, but they do reduce it).

So, little Suzy, vaccinated with a vaccine that has a microscopically small risk profile, is less likely to get seriously ill herself and is less likely to bring a serious illness home to mom, dad, grandma, etc.  That's a pretty good reason to be vaccinated.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

2 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

 

Is this the kid who goes in to get their tonsils out and pops positive on a PCR?

[Johnny Sack 8397]

8 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

@Johnny Sack

So no childhood vax for the kids? Or just not this one?

Shit no.  All my kids are vaccinated and I am extremely pro vax for standard vaccines.  Do not think this one is necessary.  May re-visit in the future.  I am more worried about them getting bitten by a shark when we head to the Caribbean in a couple months than I am about their risk from Covid.  My kids already both had it any way and the only way we knew it because we had them tested when we got it.  It was nothing to them.  I don't see a need or benefit to vaxxing them for this given their low risk.

Covid is not the bubonic plague.  The vaccines we currently have are not the smallpox vaccine or the polio vaccine that eradicates the disease.  If it was the plague or did eradicate it, I would get them jabbed.

Edited December 30, 2021 by Johnny Sack

[Sawbonz 27447]

12 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Lol.

So your standard is, as long as it isn’t murder.

 

Ah yes. Wishing something bad on someone you don’t even know and will never meet is just one step below killing someone. That was one of the Commandments on the tablet that Moses dropped

[Johnny Sack 8397]

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

So....being that every parent I know has caught viral illnesses their kids brought home, that seems to be a pretty good reason to vaccinate kids.  Not just as potential patients (which they are -- COVID still DOES cause severe illness in some children, albeit at a much lower rate than among adults), but also as virus vectors.  That's always been a reason for a broad vaccination campaign -- to reduce the spread of an illness.  And yes, vaccines due REDUCE transmission (they don't eliminate it, but they do reduce it).

So, little Suzy, vaccinated with a vaccine that has a microscopically small risk profile, is less likely to get seriously ill herself and is less likely to bring a serious illness home to mom, dad, grandma, etc.  That's a pretty good reason to be vaccinated.

If mom, dad and grandma have the vaccine, they should not be at risk from Covid.  Or not a material risk.  If they are not vaccinated, they made the choice to assume the small risk of dying from Covid.

I don't need to put a novel vaccine in my kids who are not at risk to protect me or any other adult.  I have the vaccine. I don't give a shit about Covid.  Nor do I give a shit about any adult who is dumb enough not to get jabbed.

[aggie08 21445]

17 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

I see zero reason to vaccinate kids.

Do you have kids, man? If so, did you already forget the medley of shots they got birth and then again at their two month appointment?

I might be on board with you that the Covid vaccine shouldn't be mandated for children yet (though we're delaying the inevitable as it eventually will be required along with most other essential vaccines to attend public school), but it's still a good idea in most situations. No, they're not going to die of Covid, but if I can reduce the risk of serious symptoms, it's a conversation that I'm going to have as a parent.

 

Edited December 30, 2021 by aggie08
Nevermind, you answered above

[Sawbonz 27447]

6 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

 

I am somewhat biased against this guy because he’s a fucking crackpot. Sometimes he’s right, and maybe he is here, but I know the data from North Texas pediatric admissions are showing an increase in Covid positives among admitted pediatric inpatients, but most of those have been admitted for other reasons and are popping positive due to routine testing of all inpatients. I have no idea if that’s what’s going on in New York or not.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

I am pro vaccine for kids.  Probably militantly so.  I just do not see the Covid vaccine necessary right now for mine.  Given their low risk and the fact both already had it and were asymptomatic.  I don't think others that choose differently for their kids are stupid or are taking a dumb risk.  This is just our calculus.

Edited December 30, 2021 by Johnny Sack

[Sawbonz 27447]

8 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

I am pro vaccine for kids.  Probably militantly so.  I just do not see the Covid vaccine necessary right now for mine.  Given their low risk and the fact both already had it and were asymptomatic.  I don't think others that choose differently for their kids are stupid or are taking a dumb risk.  This is just our calculus.

School-age children should get the Covid vaccine and boosters for the same reason they get rubella as part of the MMR and regular pertussis boosters. The likelihood of a healthy child or adolescent having significant illness or death or long-term health consequences from either of those diseases is vanishingly small. The only reason those are in the mandatory list is to protect infants, the elderly and the immunocompromised (and the unborn in the case of rubella). It is long established (and effective) public health policy, and it has only ever been questioned by nutjobs and quacks/ snake oil salesman

Edited December 30, 2021 by Sawbonz

[Johnny Sack 8397]

7 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

School-age children should get the Covid vaccine and boosters for the same reason they get rubella as part of the MMR and regular pertussis boosters. The likelihood of a healthy child or adolescent having significant illness or death or long-term health consequences from either of those diseases is vanishingly small. The only reason those are in the mandatory list is to protect infants, the elderly and the immunocompromised (and the unborn in the case of rubella). It is long established (and effective) public health policy, and it has only ever been questioned by nutjobs and quacks/ snake oil salesman

Does MMR vax have nearly the amount of break through cases as Covid vax?  I see the Covid vax as a prophylactic against not getting seriously injured or dead. But it does not seem capable of shutting the virus down like MMR has done.  Or polio or smallpox.

I mean shit, my understanding is all sorts of mammals get Covid and can transmit it.  At this time, I don't see the vaccine eradicating Covid like MMR has effectively done to measles.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19096]

7 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Does MMR vax have nearly the amount of break through cases as Covid vax?  I see the Covid vax as a prophylactic against not getting seriously injured or dead. But it does not seem capable of shutting the virus down like MMR has done.  Or polio or smallpox.

I mean shit, my understanding is all sorts of mammals get Covid and can transmit it.  At this time, I don't see the vaccine eradicating Covid like MMR has effectively done to measles.

It was doing a really good job until Delta (most likely due to waning immunity) and Omicron (which can get around the vaccine).  However, still doesn't matter.  With the vaccine and a booster, your chances of a good outcome are exponentially better than if you are unvaccinated.  And kids should be vaccinated.  

[Sawbonz 27447]

4 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Does MMR vax have nearly the amount of break through cases as Covid vax?  I see the Covid vax as a prophylactic against not getting seriously injured or dead. But it does not seem capable of shutting the virus down like MMR has done.  Or polio or smallpox.

I mean shit, my understanding is all sorts of mammals get Covid and can transmit it.  At this time, I don't see the vaccine eradicating Covid like MMR has effectively done to measles.

Measles has not been effectively eradicated because there are just enough wingnuts to keep the vax rate around 90%, which is low enough to allow outbreaks (many of which are breakthrough infections). I guess we’ll never know if the Covid vaccine is comparably effective because we have the usual wingnuts plus another big chunk of Qtards which is going to max us out at around 75%

 

Animal reservoirs for Covid 19 would make it hard if not impossible to eradicate, but that’s no reason to abandon sound public health policy 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

2 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Measles has not been effectively eradicated because there are just enough wingnuts to keep the vax rate around 90%, which is low enough to allow outbreaks (many of which are breakthrough infections). I guess we’ll never know if the Covid vaccine is comparably effective because we have the usual wingnuts plus another big chunk of Qtards which is going to max us out at around 75%

 

Animal reservoirs for Covid 19 would make it hard if not impossible to eradicate, but that’s no reason to abandon sound public health policy 

I mean we have what, 300 or so cases of Measles a year in the USA?  That's pretty much eradication.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19096]

1 minute ago, Johnny Sack said:

I mean we have what, 300 or so cases of Measles a year in the USA?  That's pretty much eradication.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_New_York_measles_outbreak

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1912514

That case level is BECAUSE kids are required to get vaccinations before enrolling in school.  When there are kids who are not vaccinated, things like the two links above happen.  This isn't hard.

Edited December 30, 2021 by PenelopeWitherspoon

[Johnny Sack 8397]

I see it like a flu vaccine.  Helps some in transmission depending on strain and mutation.  Not every going to get rid of it regardless.  Main benefit of Covid vaxx  is outcomes are much better,

We need to move on past this.  Idiots who want to assume the risk do so at their own peril.  Freaking Chicago is apparently about to go back to remote learning.  That is some evil shit to do to poor kids.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

2019 was bad for measles.  But it is usually low

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19096]

1 minute ago, Johnny Sack said:

I see it like a flu vaccine.  Helps some in transmission depending on strain and mutation.  Not every going to get rid of it regardless.  Main benefit of Covid vaxx  is outcomes are much better,

We need to move on past this.  Idiots who want to assume the risk do so at their own peril.  Freaking Chicago is apparently about to go back to remote learning.  That is some evil shit to do to poor kids.

I cannot speak to Chicago, but NYC is getting hit massively by Omicron, and they are determined to keep schools open.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/29/nyregion/nyc-schools-testing.html

[Brisketexan 104744]

1 minute ago, Johnny Sack said:

I mean we have what, 300 or so cases of Measles a year in the USA?  That's pretty much eradication.

And not many cases of pertussis, either......but my son got a breakthrough case when he was 14 or so, and it was super-shitty for him.  Awful, damned near debilitating cough for a week, followed by a lingering miserable cough for well over a month.

No vaccine is perfect.  But the fewer unvaxxed you have, the fewer transmissions you have.

My son most likely caught pertussis from an unvaxxed person.  I wish that person had been vaxxed, so my clearly vulnerable son (to a breakthrough infection) wouldn't have gotten sick.  The risk of a materially negative outcome of the pertussis vaccine is infinitesimally low (just like it's turning out to be the case with the mrna vaccines).  On balance, the math says you are better off getting it, and you benefit those around you to boot.

[BrickHorn 18199]

1 hour ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

He's got 4000 positive points. It will take a month.

It’s easier just to put him on ignore. Trolls get bored when you pay them no heed. 

[immamac 42555]

Can you stop fucking reporting posts that aren't trolling just because you disagree with someone's opinion regardless of how stupid it may or may not be to you. 

Immortal actually thinks these things. He's not getting a free pass to troll, but he's not pumping antivax theories or telling people to not vaccinate like maninblack was. 

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

On balance, the math says you are better off getting it, and you benefit those around you to boot.

Vax critics keep missing the fundamental point: vaccines are to protect the general population, not the individual. Decrease the viral load at every available opportunity. Doesn't matter whether the risk of dangerous symptoms is low for kids -- the viral load is still high if they are unvaxxed cariers, and it's not just wise to get them vaxxed, it's immoral not to.

[Sawbonz 27447]

Just now, Johnny Sack said:

I mean we have what, 300 or so cases of Measles a year in the USA?  That's pretty much eradication.

Smallpox is the only virus that has been eradicated. The only chance of catching it is from a lab mishap or bioterrorism event.

If measles vax rates drop to the mid 70’s in the US you would see massive outbreaks. Look at what happens in places where measles vaccine is unavailable or outlawed (war torn areas and areas where the taliban etc are in control). Also those outbreaks can have mortality rates > 10%.

That could happen here if the qtards spread their idiocy to include refusal of traditional vaccines (and some are calling for that).  Sound public health policy has a huge impact on vaccine efficacy 

[Brisketexan 104744]

1 minute ago, Sawbonz said:

That could happen here if the qtards spread their idiocy to include refusal of traditional vaccines (and some are calling for that).  Sound public health policy has a huge impact on vaccine efficacy 

That is 100% their play now -- they are openly saying so.  End ALL vaccine mandates/requirements.  All of them.

We are intent on stupiding ourselves to death.  We're likely to succeed, because we have a LOT of stupid available.

[Bama Chick 28596]

I just had to go up to my office on my vacation to update our public facing communications. We’ve gone back to Red Visitation Levels - no visitors.

Our cases tripled in 36 hours.

A third are vaccinated (that usually runs 5-10%). NONE are boosted. We’re also seeing our first significant numbers of pediatric patients sick enough to come to the ER.

It’s a shitshow because our already woefully low staffing numbers are being impacted by sick/isolating employees.

Happy Fucking New Year.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

27 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Smallpox is the only virus that has been eradicated. The only chance of catching it is from a lab mishap or bioterrorism event.

If measles vax rates drop to the mid 70’s in the US you would see massive outbreaks. Look at what happens in places where measles vaccine is unavailable or outlawed (war torn areas and areas where the taliban etc are in control). Also those outbreaks can have mortality rates > 10%.

That could happen here if the qtards spread their idiocy to include refusal of traditional vaccines (and some are calling for that).  Sound public health policy has a huge impact on vaccine efficacy 

Anti vaxxers (not Covid vax) spans the political spectrum.  Some of the lowest vaccine rates are in deep blue areas.   Granola hippy libs and fundamental Christian weirdos.  

[Celery Man 20899]

42 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_New_York_measles_outbreak

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1912514

That case level is BECAUSE kids are required to get vaccinations before enrolling in school.  When there are kids who are not vaccinated, things like the two links above happen.  This isn't hard.

He ignored this because he is dishonest as well as stupid.

[Sawbonz 27447]

9 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Anti vaxxers (not Covid vax) spans the political spectrum.  Some of the lowest vaccine rates are in deep blue areas.   Granola hippy libs and fundamental Christian weirdos.  

Yes but the people in charge of those deep blue areas don’t pander to those kooks. The Republican party leaders not only pander to the qtards, the qtards are getting elected and are making a run at taking over the party. 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

1 minute ago, Sawbonz said:

Yes but the people in charge of those deep blue areas don’t pander to those kooks. The Republican party leaders not only pander to the qtards, the qtards are getting elected and are making a run at taking over the party. 

They just pander to a different brand of kooks.  Actually a bunch of different brands of kooks.  

[Johnny Sack 8397]

16 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

He ignored this because he is dishonest as well as stupid.

I didn’t ignore it.  See post 48503 on this page.  

[Sawbonz 27447]

2 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

They just pander to a different brand of kooks.  Actually a bunch of different brands of kooks.  

Yes but we’re talking public health here. 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

3 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Yes but we’re talking public health here. 

I concede Dems have mostly the right views on Covid vaccines.  Not a fan of government mandates for them as a condition to work.  The contractor mandate was absurd.  Requiring off site remote workers of companies with federal contracts was absurd.  

Edited December 30, 2021 by Johnny Sack

[Sawbonz 27447]

Just now, Johnny Sack said:

I concede Dems have mostly the right views on Covid vaccines.  Not a fan of government mandates for them to work.  

And yet you are for govt mandated childhood vaccination schedule 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

2 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

And yet you are for govt mandated childhood vaccination schedule 

Yes.  They have proven efficacy against transmission and a long safety record.  
 

You see cases in 90 percent vaxxed NY?

They also don’t require 3-4 shots per year.  

Edited December 30, 2021 by Johnny Sack

[Celery Man 20899]

14 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

I didn’t ignore it.  See post 48503 on this page.  

You ignored her point unless that was you agreeing with her.

[Sawbonz 27447]

8 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Yes.  They have proven efficacy against transmission and a long safety record.  
 

You see cases in 90 percent vaxxed NY?

They also don’t require 3-4 shots per year.  

NYC is nowhere close to 90% vaxed 

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

Counts shooting through the roof where I'm at, which seems to match the rest of the country.   However, the hospitalized locally are still 96% unvaccinated.  

Edited December 30, 2021 by MC Fresh Breath

[jimmyjazz 45599]

4 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

NYC is nowhere close to 90% vaxed 

It doesn't speak directly to your point, but it is telling nonetheless.  NYC positivity increase in unvaxxed appears to be ~ 10X that of vaxxed, as of a week ago:

Edited December 30, 2021 by jimmyjazz

[BrickHorn 18199]

5500 cases per capita? That’s an INSANE re-infection rate. 

[Incredulity 11564]

Oh, Hai…

just tested positive on an Abbott home test.  Mother, Brother, SIL all tested positive and I was with them on Christmas.  Scratchy throat is only symptom right now.

 

Case counts to the moon.

[DDD Dad 14268]

2 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Oh, Hai…

just tested positive on an Abbott home test.  Mother, Brother, SIL all tested positive and I was with them on Christmas.  Scratchy throat is only symptom right now.

 

Case counts to the moon.

Congratulations.  Aren't you glad you're vaccinated?

[Incredulity 11564]

2 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Congratulations.  Aren't you glad you're vaccinated?

Of course.

Feel free to quote any post I have made that is anti-vax.

 

[DDD Dad 14268]

Just now, Incredulity said:

Of course.

Feel free to quote any post I have made that is anti-vax.

 

I wasn't implying you had made any such posts.  

[Sawbonz 27447]

72% vaccinated in NYC as of today. Not counting the MAGA rubes who invaded Manhattan for Christmas