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Dbeasy

Dbeasy 15526

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I went back two pages in this thread to see if this question has been answered already, so apologize if it has.

Has there been a serious discussion about whether there is any scientific view that allowing the Omnicrom to spread might actually create a firmer resistance to future Covid variants that might be deadlier than Omnicrom? Have heard some doctors privately expressing this view. 

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I'd just like to point out that neither myself nor any of my fellow nurses, fellow advanced nurse practitioners, and other healthcare providers ever swore an oath that we would lay down our lives for

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Welp, it finally happened. I snapped in public today. I went into work for a bit this morning because I’m trying to figure out the safest way to host physicians we are recruiting given our CV-19 sit

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I don't really know what to say anymore tbh. What happened last night is hard to put into words for anyone who hasn't worked in a hospital healthcare setting. Just unreal. Everyone is getting fucked.

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 46969

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3 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

I went back two pages in this thread to see if this question has been answered already, so apologize if it has.

Has there been a serious discussion about whether there is any scientific view that allowing the Omnicrom to spread might actually create a firmer resistance to future Covid variants that might be deadlier than Omnicrom? Have heard some doctors privately expressing this view. 

It doesn't answer your question directly, but the 7-day rolling average for deaths in the US is currently at ~ 2,300 per day.  We've topped 3,000 deaths in a single day a couple of times this past week.

I assume most of those dead Americans were unvaccinated, but it's obviously still a huge risk.  I don't think it's ethically responsible to say "fuck 'em" and let the thing burn through.  We're currently at almost 80% of the worst mortality rate over the entire pandemic.  This can't be ignored, regardless of the lunacy of that particular demographic.

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23699

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6 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

I’m feeling lazy anyone have a link to the breakdown of vaxed vs unvaxed for hospitalizations and deaths with the current surge? 

Seeing 80/20 unvaxxed/vaxxed hospitalizations. If you redefined vaxxed to be "boosted" it's like 95/5, similar to the run rate during delta. 

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Bullneck

Bullneck 19454

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11 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

I’m feeling lazy anyone have a link to the breakdown of vaxed vs unvaxed for hospitalizations and deaths with the current surge? 

Washington State stats:

January 26, 2022  -- Summary

Unvaccinated 12-34 year-olds in Washington are
• 2 times more likely to get COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 12-34 year-olds.
• 5 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 12-34 yearolds.

Unvaccinated 35-64 year-olds are
• 3 times more likely to get COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 35-64 year-olds.
• 7 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 35-64 yearolds.

Unvaccinated 65+ year-olds are
• 4 times more likely to get COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 65+ year-olds.
• 7 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 65+ year-olds.
• 11 times more likely to die of COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 65+ year-olds.

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Willfully Horn

Willfully Horn 8204

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Reinfected, over and over? 

This fucking sucks.

The newest variant cases are found in the largest numbers in India and the Philippines. There’s no connection to those countries’ fully vaxxed rate (low 50s) and the rise of these variants. You’d be a fool to make any such connection and also to think they are part of an ongoing trend for new variants. 

Yeah, getting vaccinated these days is a fool’s errand. Haven’t you heard? It’s over.

And, wear a mask in public? Might as well shave your balls in the neighbor’s kitchen sink, that’s how ridiculous continued mask usage is. Masks don’t work! The studies saying they do are flawed science.

Any benefit is marginal, at best. Studies making claims like: “Masks significantly reduced virus transmission when worn by both the case-patient and the contact, but SARs for each group were higher than anticipated,” are suspect.

Thats just hyperbole, common to all scientists. And, see? Masks don’t work as well as you think! A 50% difference in SARS is minuscule. If it’s not minuscule, it has to be flawed. This new, well no longer new but newish, variant renders all we thought we knew obsolete. Any claim to the contrary is spiking the ball.

 

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C44&as_ylo=2022&as_vis=1&q=covid+prevention+mask+efficacy+study&btnG=#d=gs_qabs&u=%23p%3D1y3uXjAICnsJ

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Skipper

Skipper 6406

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35 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

I notice none of our "natural immunity" posters have been posting in this thread in a while.  I wonder why that is.

Are you really trying to spike the ball over a twitter thread posted on a Sunday?  I saw it yesterday outside of this site and found it interesting.  It's also pure speculation.  For one, I've never seen the stat that "60-70%" of unvaccinated have had Covid.  The estimated number I've seen was around 50%.  So would like to see backup as that is higher than I would have thought pre-Omicron wave (which is what we should be talking about when discussing current hospitalizations).  Second, the percentage that really matters for increasing hospitalizations is over 65 without vax or natural immunity.  If we are speculating here, I'm guessing the 20-40 unvaxed population has a MUCH higher percentage with natural immunity compared to 65+.   In other words, I would have guessed (since we are all speculating here) that most of the unvaxed in hospitals do not have any natural immunity.  But don't get me wrong, I fully expect the data to also show 65+ SHOULD probably be vaxed regardless of infection status (just like data has shown they should also be boosted).  Is it going to show the same for younger population?  We'll see.  

Regarding Ashish, he's a good follow but also doctor that has tweeted strong opinions and extrapolated anecdotal experiences throughout this pandemic in an attempt to make sure he gets TV appearances. I think he's one of the "better" ones in that regard for sure and absolutely not a constant fear mongerer like some so I actually pay attention to what he has to say.  But still have to see him a bit for what he is.

There should be plenty of ACTUAL evidence on hospitalizations on the back side of this wave.   We may not be able to extrapolate it to this next variant but we'll have something like 40% infected with omicron across an 8-9 week period with a backdrop of no immunity, natural immunity, 2X vaxed, boosted across all age groups.   So studies will be interesting.

The actual studies through the Delta wave indicated strong protection from severe disease.   If that turns out to be wrong lord knows we'll all hear it.

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 18183

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2 hours ago, Skipper said:

Regarding Ashish, he's a good follow but also doctor that has tweeted strong opinions and extrapolated anecdotal experiences throughout this pandemic in an attempt to make sure he gets TV appearances. I think he's one of the "better" ones in that regard for sure and absolutely not a constant fear mongerer like some so I actually pay attention to what he has to say.  But still have to see him a bit for what he is.

Is it fair to point out that Dr. Ashish primary profession is directly in the medical field as a practicing physician, researcher, and teacher while, Dr. Peter Attia's, one of your go to sources, primary business is as a media personality (with a paid subscription plan) and officer/adviser for health app companies? I'm just saying it seems like "see him a bit for what he is" has to apply to Dr. Attia a lot more forcefully than Dr. Ashish. 

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Neonmoon

Neonmoon 38130

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4 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Is it fair to point out that Dr. Ashish primary profession is directly in the medical field as a practicing physician, researcher, and teacher while, Dr. Peter Attia's, one of your go to sources, primary business is as a media personality (with a paid subscription plan) and officer/adviser for health app companies? I'm just saying it seems like "see him a bit for what he is" has to apply to Dr. Attia a lot more forcefully than Dr. Ashish. 

#bothsides

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Skipper

Skipper 6406

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7 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Is it fair to point out that Dr. Ashish primary profession is directly in the medical field as a practicing physician, researcher, and teacher while, Dr. Peter Attia's, one of your go to sources, primary business is as a media personality (with a paid subscription plan) and officer/adviser for health app companies? I'm just saying it seems like "see him a bit for what he is" has to apply to Dr. Attia a lot more forcefully than Dr. Ashish. 

Attia has a concierge practice that he doesn't appear to be expanding.  But yes, I mean you have to look at all of them for what they are.  Attia hasn't really touched COVID for over a year when I think he recently got fed up with the logical inconsistencies.  I've enjoyed the commentary but primarily pay attention to Attia for non-Covid related items.   He freely admits he has limited interest in Covid once Vaccines were available to protect his patients.  Now, is he currently profiting off of/expanding listeners based on growing frustration among restrictions?  Probably.  I'll be disappointed if he continues to pivot to that base for profit purposes but not surprised.

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PenelopeWitherspoon

PenelopeWitherspoon 19279

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8 hours ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

Another one, PW.
 

UK NHS scraps mandate for health care workers. 
 

 

Congrats.  Seems like a stupid policy to me.  What exactly is your fucking point, you disingenuous troll?

How about this essay from John Barry.  Seems kind of important, and it looks like we are going to continue to fuck around and find out as a society.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/31/opinion/covid-pandemic-end.html

To clarify, it is fucking stupid that the Uk would change mandates for the NHS.  You work for the NHS, you should be vaccinated or find another fucking job.  

 

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Willfully Horn

Willfully Horn 8204

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3 hours ago, Skipper said:

Are you really trying to spike the ball over a twitter thread posted on a Sunday?

Ding ding ding. We have a weiner. Attempted shut down discussion play is out of bounds. The ball will be placed on the forty yard line.

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Willfully Horn

Willfully Horn 8204

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1 hour ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

interesting breakdown on some of these questions. 

My ‘priors’ were all about keeping my 87 year old MIL healthy. She has one kidney, and, at one point, dealt with diabetes. 

I dare say your ‘priors’ coincided with supporting Trump. I think that because I don’t remember you castigating that terrorist for trying to overthrow the will of the people. If I’m right, fuck right off. If I’m wrong, state as much.

You help politicize this virus and it’s disease, and you continue to dilute the expectation that everyone get vaxxed and wear masks. Actual experts say everyone should do both those things, though as Dahobbs points out, politics enters this particular fray. Fuck that shit. 
 

If you’ve been taking your cues from Trumpsterfire, you’ve been wrong for years, but that doesn’t affect you. You’ve no more self awareness than a dog licking it’s own asshole while in public. (Stonekettle).

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DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt

DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301

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30 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

wait, you mean to tell me all those "natural immunity" people were full of shit? no waaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy!!!!!

Not sure the credentials of that guy you quoted so I’m just going to believe the high school football coach that posts here. Dude knows his stuff.

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lemonlime

lemonlime 5503

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14 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

My ‘priors’ were all about keeping my 87 year old MIL healthy. She has one kidney, and, at one point, dealt with diabetes. 

I dare say your ‘priors’ coincided with supporting Trump. I think that because I don’t remember you castigating that terrorist for trying to overthrow the will of the people. If I’m right, fuck right off. If I’m wrong, state as much.

You help politicize this virus and it’s disease, and you continue to dilute the expectation that everyone get vaxxed and wear masks. Actual experts say everyone should do both those things, though as Dahobbs points out, politics enters this particular fray. Fuck that shit. 
 

If you’ve been taking your cues from Trumpsterfire, you’ve been wrong for years, but that doesn’t affect you. You’ve no more self awareness than a dog licking it’s own asshole while in public. (Stonekettle).

That's also a meaningless number.  Hell, I agree we should "get on with our lives," whatever that means.  I also think people should wear masks indoors when possible and get vaccinated.  And that doing those things also increases the ability to "get on with our lives."  Why the natural immunity crew conflates "getting on with our lives," with being selfish assholes who won't do the bare minimum shit that doesn't impact your life, such as getting a jab or wearing mask in the supermarket, is a confusing mystery....

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

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2 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

Is it fair to point out that Dr. Ashish primary profession is directly in the medical field as a practicing physician, researcher, and teacher while, Dr. Peter Attia's, one of your go to sources, primary business is as a media personality (with a paid subscription plan) and officer/adviser for health app companies? I'm just saying it seems like "see him a bit for what he is" has to apply to Dr. Attia a lot more forcefully than Dr. Ashish. 

Yeah but 5g. 

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Sawbonz

Sawbonz 28081

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Twitter strings are terrible for making an argument. Nothing I have seen shows a clinical advantage for immunized vs recovered in providing protection from serious illness/death, and nothing in that string shows me otherwise. Ashish implies but presents no data that show the majority of current unvaxed hospitalizations are among those previously infected, and that assertion goes against current thought (or maybe he links somewhere and I missed it

Also we know immunity with vaccination wanes so it would not be surprising if the same is true for prior infection. Also he should end with “why not just vaccinate and get boosted?”

it is clear that vaxed and boosted confers superior protection over remote infection in terms of contracting Covid. It is not clear that there is superior protection from serious illness death

His whole thread does not sit well w me

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Longhorn_Fan68

Longhorn_Fan68 34079

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1 minute ago, JimmyJames said:

Here’s my solution. Everyone just get vaxxed and then just shut up about it. 
 

Alternatively everyone be forced to get vaxxed, and if you don’t want to you get a free greyhound bus ticket to Mexico. 

wtf did Mexico do? send them to remote parts of Alaska and tell them to stfu. if you want to be part of society, then play by society's rules

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