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Mrs Whiggins

By Mrs Whiggins
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wildcat09

wildcat09 29348

Posted
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30 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

Sure.  So it's groovy to needlessly pay for well over $100k of healthcare for someone who could have avoided it with a shot that costs around $35.  Never mind the health care workers in the ICU, who were already exhausted, but had to clean up her shit for weeks.

I am completely out of sympathy.  

You're leaving a couple zeroes out of their medical costs.

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I'd just like to point out that neither myself nor any of my fellow nurses, fellow advanced nurse practitioners, and other healthcare providers ever swore an oath that we would lay down our lives for

Bama Chick
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Welp, it finally happened. I snapped in public today. I went into work for a bit this morning because I’m trying to figure out the safest way to host physicians we are recruiting given our CV-19 sit

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I don't really know what to say anymore tbh. What happened last night is hard to put into words for anyone who hasn't worked in a hospital healthcare setting. Just unreal. Everyone is getting fucked.

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lemonlime

lemonlime 5503

Posted
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3 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

You're leaving a couple zeroes out of their medical costs.

Never mind the health care costs for all the people she gave Covid to.   According to the article, she was in Vegas, had symptoms there, still went to Cirque de Soleil, and then was admitted to a hospital after they returned to Texas, so presumably also got on a plane with Covid.

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lemonlime

lemonlime 5503

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4 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

He is also missing replacing that 1 with a bigger number. 

She.  And yeah.  I was being conservative in my estimate.  From the same WaPo article:

Fourteen days after she arrived at the hospital, the group concluded it was time to move Diana to another machine called ECMO, or extracorporeal membrane oxygenation, in which the blood is pumped outside the body to give the lungs and heart a chance to rest. The decision to put a patient on ECMO is not taken lightly. The therapy, developed in the 1970s, is lifesaving in the right circumstances. But it can also lead to bleeding, stroke, seizure, blood clots and infection. Moreover, the equipment is scarce, the staffing intensive, and the treatment can run up hospital bills in the millions.

 
Diana Crouch spent 139 days in the hospital with covid. (Family photo)

At the beginning of the pandemic, many people were worried about rationing ventilators, but instead it’s been ECMO that has been in limited supply nationwide. “That is the tough part nobody wants to talk about,” Dezfulian said. “There are a limited number of pumps, and you make some decisions on the likelihood they will have a long life and a good life.”

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105093

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7 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

These are just the worst fucking people.

This.

"Brisket, your beloved daughter is receiving intensive medical care for a condition that may prove to be terminal.  We would expect that you'd want to visit her.  She is scared and alone, she's just a kid.  Our facility does require that you get this shot before you come in.  When would you like to schedule it?"

Brisket: "NEVER!  FREEEEEEDOM!!!!!"

Dude.  WTF?  If you told me that it was an injection of fucking raw sewage, I would take it because NOTHING is going to stop me from getting to my kid.  NOTHING.

These fucking psychopaths are choosing an insane, misinformation-fed political position OVER THEIR OWN FUCKING CHILDREN.  This  is how fucking psychotic shit is these days.

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17529

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6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

This.

"Brisket, your beloved daughter is receiving intensive medical care for a condition that may prove to be terminal.  We would expect that you'd want to visit her.  She is scared and alone, she's just a kid.  Our facility does require that you get this shot before you come in.  When would you like to schedule it?"

Brisket: "NEVER!  FREEEEEEDOM!!!!!"

Dude.  WTF?  If you told me that it was an injection of fucking raw sewage, I would take it because NOTHING is going to stop me from getting to my kid.  NOTHING.

These fucking psychopaths are choosing an insane, misinformation-fed political position OVER THEIR OWN FUCKING CHILDREN.  This  is how fucking psychotic shit is these days.

fuck you @Immaculate Vibes

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DDD Dad

DDD Dad 14332

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1 hour ago, lemonlime said:

She.  And yeah.  I was being conservative in my estimate.  From the same WaPo article:

Fourteen days after she arrived at the hospital, the group concluded it was time to move Diana to another machine called ECMO, or extracorporeal membrane oxygenation, in which the blood is pumped outside the body to give the lungs and heart a chance to rest. The decision to put a patient on ECMO is not taken lightly. The therapy, developed in the 1970s, is lifesaving in the right circumstances. But it can also lead to bleeding, stroke, seizure, blood clots and infection. Moreover, the equipment is scarce, the staffing intensive, and the treatment can run up hospital bills in the millions.

 
Diana Crouch spent 139 days in the hospital with covid. (Family photo)

At the beginning of the pandemic, many people were worried about rationing ventilators, but instead it’s been ECMO that has been in limited supply nationwide. “That is the tough part nobody wants to talk about,” Dezfulian said. “There are a limited number of pumps, and you make some decisions on the likelihood they will have a long life and a good life.”

Death panels!

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105093

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5 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Death panels!

I mean....the fucking 50,000 foot deep layer of irony would be hysterical.....if we weren't literally watching people die because of it.

Also, of course, their choices are functionally murdering other people, because of their consumption of scarce resources.  If there's one ECMO left in the area, and the doctors conclude that patient A, an unvaxxed COVID patient, has a 50% chance of surviving if given ECMO treatment, and another non-COVID patient who needs ECMO would have a lesser chance -- say 40% chance of surviving if given ECMO treatment -- then the docs are going to give the ECMO to the COVID patient.  Meaning that the other patient is toast, even though he actually had a 40% chance of survival (a pretty damned material chance).  But he never got that chance.....because someone else who had "done the research, and will never get the Fauci ouchie!" fucked around and found out.

We are murderously selfish in this country.  And it's only getting worse, because that is the kind of choice that is glorified at the expense of every other option.

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Mdhorn

Mdhorn 5947

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

ah, so you are for socialism after all.

Like Chris Crouch, only when it's for his family.  Now if they decide to home remedy and trepan the illness like the rest of the knuckle draggers, then gotdam that's a man of his word.  Otherwise, going to cost the lot of us.  

Edited by Mdhorn
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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

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2 hours ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

No. It’s not groovy. I’m just saying it’s the last thing I would take from that story. There’s stupid motherfuckers all day everyday that do stupid shit that costs us all a lot of money. Whether it’s ignoring diabetes and ending up with life threatening infections or on lifelong dialysis, or getting drunk and wrecking cars and people, or even families not letting go of relatives that are lost causes.
 

The human costs of the staff working hard to save them do suck, but the rest of it is all Monopoly money sloshing around. 
 

Says the anti vaxxer idiot. It’s ok to be an anti vaxxer because diabetics and drunk driving. 

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Gourmand

Gourmand 7774

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I tried to read that WaPo article yesterday and just couldn't get through the entire thing because of the rage and sadness it pulled out of me. Like others have said....of course he's a cop, of course they are MAGAts, of course they get on damn airplane for a Vegas vacation during a pandemic, unvaccinated, while pregnant.

I mean, where is your goddamn common sense??!??! How can you be pregnant and not get vaccinated??? 🤬

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Longhorn_Fan68

Longhorn_Fan68 33867

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1 minute ago, Gourmand said:

I tried to read that WaPo article yesterday and just couldn't get through the entire thing because of the rage and sadness it pulled out of me. Like others have said....of course he's a cop, of course they are MAGAts, of course they get on damn airplane for a Vegas vacation during a pandemic, unvaccinated, while pregnant.

I mean, where is your goddamn common sense??!??! How can you be pregnant and not get vaccinated??? 🤬

or why the fuck would you want to go to Vegas?

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tchookem

tchookem 3900

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Hmm… from the article, “When you sit there and you see your wife on life support because of covid, you throw out politics,” says Chris Crouch, who now urges people to get vaccinated.”
And in the photograph, his cap… But damn. What a tough situation and how fortunate for them everyone pulled through more or less.
So Mr. Crouch, do you think you might be wrong about a few other things?
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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17529

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1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

How does that convert to real world effectiveness against positivity, hospitalization, and death?

I don't know that it does. But, I found it interesting nonetheless. It probably deserves further research to verify the results and understand better the cause and whether it is an effect that we can take advantage of, whether for Covid or future mRNA vaccines. 

This bit was interesting as well, particularly with possible booster implications:

Quote

there was no trend of decreasing RBD antibodies in those with natural immunity for up to 9 months in our dataset. However, our data revealed a large variation of their levels that were stable in given individuals. In comparison, while mRNA vaccines resulted in much higher RBD antibody levels than natural infections, this hyper-elevated level appeared to be less stable with samples at 6 months past the second dose. While our work is still very preliminary, there is a recent study observing similar rapid decline in RBD antibody within 6 months of BNT162b2 vaccine42, which is further strengthened by its clinical waning protection against SARS-CoV-2 infection in several studies42,43,44.

 

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17529

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22 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

 

 

 

10 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

well, I'm stunned.

Another way of saying that is 68% of covid-19 hospital admissions were admitted specifically for Covid-19. That's the significant majority of them. That seems like a pretty big deal. Everyone knew the data was inflated because its hard to break this stuff out, but apparently it wasn't really that inflated. 

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45897

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52 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

well, I'm stunned.

Why are you stunned?  Were you expecting all "normal" causes of severe illness to go away once covid showed up?  Does it surprise you that (for instance) a cancer patient or a heart attack victim might be admitted to the hospital and then test positive for covid?

The sheer effort you put into being contrarian must be exhausting.

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Bama Chick

Bama Chick 28596

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This whole “Did they die of COVID or with COVID?” is another bullshit deflection and distraction.

Our pulmonologists and critical care docs have lately been talking about what they’re calling the “COVID tip”.

We all know COVID is particularly dangerous to people with underlying conditions.

So let me give one example of an actual patient we had last week.

55 year old male with HBP and kidney disease. He was in the early stages - on a diuretic and BP meds and special diet. Still working full time and living a normal life.

He got a mild case of COVID.

Within a week he was in the ICU with kidney failure. It killed him. Cause of death was kidney failure.

His disease was controlled and manageable but COVID accelerated and worsened his kidney disease and “tipped” him into kidney failure.

So he would be classified as dying WITH COVID.

But if he never caught COVID, his disease wouldn’t have progressed so that it got so bad it killed him in a week’s time.

Use whatever semantics you like if it makes you feel better or you think it gives you a winning talking point but that man doesn’t leave behind a wife, three kids, and two grandkids if he didn’t catch COVID.

COVID is “tipping” stable diabetic patients, stable patients with heart disease and high blood pressure, stable patients with many other conditions into crisis, hospitalization, and death.

Someone who gets shot, ends up in the hospital, pops COVID positive on a routine test on admission, but ultimately dies from their injuries from the accident is a patient that died WITH COVID.

Someone with controlled diabetes who catches COVID and subsequently deteriorates into a diabetic crisis and dies didn’t die WITH COVID. They died from diabetes BECAUSE of COVID.

The very real kidney patient and the hypothetical diabetic would not have died if they didn’t get COVID.

People are dying WITH COVID.

People are dying FROM COVID.

People are dying BECAUSE of COVID.

To lump the third group with the first is dishonest.

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23466

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

This whole “Did they die of COVID or with COVID?” is another bullshit deflection and distraction.

Our pulmonologists and critical care docs have lately been talking about what they’re calling the “COVID tip”.

We all know COVID is particularly dangerous to people with underlying conditions.

So let me give one example of an actual patient we had last week.

55 year old male with HBP and kidney disease. He was in the early stages - on a diuretic and BP meds and special diet. Still working full time and living a normal life.

He got a mild case of COVID.

Within a week he was in the ICU with kidney failure. It killed him. Cause of death was kidney failure.

His disease was controlled and manageable but COVID accelerated and worsened his kidney disease and “tipped” him into kidney failure.

So he would be classified as dying WITH COVID.

But if he never caught COVID, his disease wouldn’t have progressed so that it got so bad it killed him in a week’s time.

Use whatever semantics you like if it makes you feel better or you think it gives you a winning talking point but that man doesn’t leave behind a wife, three kids, and two grandkids if he didn’t catch COVID.

COVID is “tipping” stable diabetic patients, stable patients with heart disease and high blood pressure, stable patients with many other conditions into crisis, hospitalization, and death.

Someone who gets shot, ends up in the hospital, pops COVID positive on a routine test on admission, but ultimately dies from their injuries from the accident is a patient that died WITH COVID.

Someone with controlled diabetes who catches COVID and subsequently deteriorates into a diabetic crisis and dies didn’t die WITH COVID. They died from diabetes BECAUSE of COVID.

The very real kidney patient and the hypothetical diabetic would not have died if they didn’t get COVID.

People are dying WITH COVID.

People are dying FROM COVID.

People are dying BECAUSE of COVID.

To lump the third group with the first is dishonest.

None of this is relevant to the study that was just posted, unless you just think that objective criteria are simply unfathomable.  

 

Screenshot-2022-02-17-233147.jpg

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Bama Chick

Bama Chick 28596

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None of this is relevant to the study that was just posted, unless you just think that objective criteria are simply unfathomable.  
 
Screenshot-2022-02-17-233147.jpg

No shit.

I’m not arguing with the study.

I’m arguing with the morons misinterpreting the study and jumping to incorrect conclusions to prop up a dishonest agenda.
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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17529

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25 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

Nobody did that

 

Maybe you can say no one has done in this thread since the study was posted. But you can't say "nobody did that" as you know damn well there are people doing it right now. And a lot of them did so in response to Gottlieb's tweet that was posted in this thread. 

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23466

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2 hours ago, babysdaddy said:

Nobody did that

I didn't think that I saw anyone here doing so either. But apparently if anybody anywhere on social media is doing it, rant on.  

The underlying cause of death coding is a separate but important issue. Death certificates allow for coding underlying causal chain, so identifying COVID as a contributing factor from death certificates is technically feasible. But being able glean insights from those data is dependent on the quality of the coding, which is highly variable. CDC has all of those data.  I don't think that you need a BECAUSE classification, that should just be par of the FROM class. 

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