CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk

[jimmyjazz 45513]

7 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Which goes to the other point. JJ keeps harping and harping about "January" and how it wasn't that long ago, etc. etc.  Do you know what is different between now and January?  Well, between early December through early February literally half the fucking US population was "vaccinated or boosted" via an Omicron infection.  That's a massive fucking difference.    Unless/until there is a variant that (i) better evades vax immunity and (ii) evades Omicron immunity, then the hospitals are not at risk of a collapse.  Period.

You don't know that.  At all.  Where is the evidence that omicron provided future immunity against new variants?  Where are the data showing how long that immunity lasts, if it even exists?
 

Quote

If that new variant comes along then it's fine to re-evaluate everything including masks on planes. 

I think it is extraordinarily unwise to snap back and forth on public health policy.  It is far more prudent to be a bit more cautious and avoid having to reverse course.  The average American struggles with the idea of new data informing prior policy.  We've seen it, again and again.

[tchookem 3900]

If healthy vaccinated individuals start getting really sick or if the critical care system gets stressed we should reassess but for now we are not seeing that.

This is a problem I've had since April 2020. There has never been a transparent metric for what we will use to reevaluate mandates. There was never a number proposed to say we lift mandates when we hit X. At least I don't remember a number being communicated. At this point it looks like people in charge are saying things seem better, so we can move on. Does that mean that our current numbers (whatever numbers they're using) are the limit? If things take a turn are we headed back to more mandates? I just wish that if we were lifting (or imposing) mandates we had the data presented why it was the appropriate decision.

I don't think things will get worse, I do think everything is heading in the preferred direction, but I also believe that we could have the worst wave yet hit us and people would still be whining about masks.

[wildcat09 29187]

5 minutes ago, pearlandhorn said:

Aren't the vaccines supposed to do that?  Seems like the people who want protecting have been vaccinated and the people who don't want to be protected either 1) don't want to get vaccinated or 2) want people to leave them the hell alone.

There are a lot of people with various health issues who can't get the vaccines and there are a lot of people who can get the vaccines but have certain conditions that can compromise the vaccine's efficacy. You say you just want to be left the hell alone but what you actually want is the unrestrained right to harm those people.

[Sawbonz 27375]

Just a letter to the editor, small sample size etc but yeesh

Efficacy of a Fourth Dose of Covid-19 mRNA Vaccine against Omicron

Quote

Vaccine efficacy against any SARS-CoV-2 infection was 30% (95% confidence interval [CI], −9 to 55) for BNT162b2 and 11% (95% CI, −43 to 44) for mRNA-1273 (Figure 1C). Most infected health care workers reported negligible symptoms, both in the control group and the intervention groups. However, most of the infected participants were potentially infectious, with relatively high viral loads (nucleocapsid gene cycle threshold, ≤25) (Table S6). Vaccine efficacy was estimated to be higher for the prevention of symptomatic disease (43% for BNT162b2 and 31% for mRNA-1273) (Fig. S4).

Time for a new batch looks like

 

 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8799]

So are you saying you support masks on planes, because that seems to be what you are saying since those Democrats were all vaxxed but didn't have masks on the plane.  If I remember, none of them were seriously sick (very mild cases), so it seems to me that if everyone is vaxxed and you do not wear a mask, yeah your risk of getting it goes up, but it won't be serious and you won't be taking up scarce resources. Again, it all comes down to, the fully vaxxed should be back to normal and the anti-vaxxers should be fucking booted from polite society.
 

10% (that was reported) of the passengers caught Covid in what you said was incredibly low chance if a plane was full of vaccinated people.

[Brisketexan 104465]

26 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Just a letter to the editor, small sample size etc but yeesh

Efficacy of a Fourth Dose of Covid-19 mRNA Vaccine against Omicron

Time for a new batch looks like

 

 

Yeah, I'm really interested into seeing the vaccination effort start moving in the direction of looking like the flu vaccine: annual changes to target the most likely strain/variant.

[Skipper 6088]

41 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

You don't know that.  At all.  Where is the evidence that omicron provided future immunity against new variants?  Where are the data showing how long that immunity lasts, if it even exists?

WTF.  Omicron (or sub-variants) are something like 95% of current infections last I saw.  How the fuck are you supposed to make policy decisions with respect to hypothetical "new variants" that don't exist.

For what is actually in front of us, there is zero evidence that an Omicron infection is NOT providing protection against subsequent infections.  Of course we don't know how long it will last.  But there is absolutely no reason to assume an Omicron infection is not protective because that's literally how every infectious disease works.   Your constant assuming unprecedented scenarios is a bit bizarre. You may want to follow someone other than Eric Feigl Ding or whatever Covid alarmist is shaping your opinions.

[Anastasis 23375]

34 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Just a letter to the editor, small sample size etc but yeesh

Efficacy of a Fourth Dose of Covid-19 mRNA Vaccine against Omicron

Time for a new batch looks like

 

 

 

29 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

10% (that was reported) of the passengers caught Covid in what you said was incredibly low chance if a plane was full of vaccinated people.

 

You may be in luck!

 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8799]

Those are weird looking tits

[MNLonghornFUKM 8799]

Those are weird looking tits

[Bama Chick 28596]

Just know all of us who work in healthcare think you people whining and wailing and crying about wearing masks on planes are a bunch of pussy titty baby spoiled little fragile weak nuisance pussies.

Way way way wah

[Bama Chick 28596]

Just know all of us who work in healthcare think you people whining and wailing and crying about wearing masks on planes are a bunch of pussy titty baby spoiled little fragile weak nuisance pussies.

Way way way wah

[Bama Chick 28596]

Just know all of us who work in healthcare think you people whining and wailing and crying about wearing masks on planes are a bunch of pussy titty baby spoiled little fragile weak nuisance pussies.

Way way way wah

[Bama Chick 28596]

Just know all of us who work in healthcare think you people whining and wailing and crying about wearing masks on planes are a bunch of pussy titty baby spoiled little fragile weak nuisance pussies.

Way way way wah

[Longhorn_Fan68 33825]

one more time for those in the back!

[jimmyjazz 45513]

43 minutes ago, Skipper said:

WTF.  Omicron (or sub-variants) are something like 95% of current infections last I saw.  How the fuck are you supposed to make policy decisions with respect to hypothetical "new variants" that don't exist.

For what is actually in front of us, there is zero evidence that an Omicron infection is NOT providing protection against subsequent infections.  Of course we don't know how long it will last.  But there is absolutely no reason to assume an Omicron infection is not protective because that's literally how every infectious disease works.   Your constant assuming unprecedented scenarios is a bit bizarre. You may want to follow someone other than Eric Feigl Ding or whatever Covid alarmist is shaping your opinions.

You're kind of hysterical.  I have no idea who Eric Feigl DIng is, either.  I "follow" no entity other than the CDC.

Omicron was the second deadliest variant to date.  You accuse me of making assumptions and yet YOU are the one doing exactly that.  I am saying we need some science to back up your assumptions before we act on them in terms of public health policy.  Don't point the finger at me when you're the one who is being irrational.

[Bama Chick 28596]

one more time for those in the back!

lol I’m so fucking tired, man.

[Skipper 6088]

1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

You're kind of hysterical.  I have no idea who Eric Feigl DIng is, either.  I "follow" no entity other than the CDC.

Omicron was the second deadliest variant to date.  You accuse me of making assumptions and yet YOU are the one doing exactly that.  I am saying we need some science to back up your assumptions before we act on them in terms of public health policy.  Don't point the finger at me when you're the one who is being irrational.

Answer precisely what "assumptions" were being made and how they can be backed up.   You specifically stated "new variants".  How are you supposed to provide "back up" for something that isn't known to exist?    Sure, a new variant could come along that makes us re-think everything.  You know what else could?  A flu that spreads like COVID but is 10X more deadly.  We've been talking about, and living with, that risk for decades.   

It's becoming beyond clear that COVID has completely warped the way a lot of people think about risk tolerance.  Night and day from February 2020.

 

[jimmyjazz 45513]

@Skipper LMAO.  Stop lecturing people about risk when you clearly don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

A lack of evidence that omicron does NOT provide immunity does not mean it DOES provide immunity.  We are just a gnat's ass past that wave.  Look at the charts.  Something new -- could be BA2, could be something else -- could be just around the corner.  Your hair trigger to say "all is well" is counterproductive.  We JUST went through a highly fatal wave and you are scolding people who would prefer to be a bit more cautious?  Fuck that.

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

7 hours ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

So Broadway is doing the opposite of what I think they should do.  They are doing away with proof of vaccination, but keeping masks.  I wish they would keep requiring the proof of vaccination and booster (because fuck you if you do not have a medical reason to not get vaccinated) and do away with the masks. 

I think it would make a whole lot of fucking sense if the airlines required you to be vaccinated to fly and then did away with the mandate.  If everyone on the flight is vaccinated, the risk is incredibly low.

 

Replacing one mandate with another more stringent one? 
 

Btw for the sake of your mandate what’s fully vaccinated to you, P? What ages are included? All children 5 and up?
 

5 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

Just know all of us who work in healthcare think you people whining and wailing and crying about wearing masks on planes are a bunch of pussy titty baby spoiled little fragile weak nuisance pussies.

Way way way wah

Not exactly. Where I work there’s plenty of people wondering when we’ll go back to not being required to wear them throughout the hospital. Just in OR like old days. It’s pretty similar to the recent airport situation. A lot of masks half on, people pulling them up and down continuously. 
 

 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Immaculate Vibes

[Skipper 6088]

1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

@Skipper LMAO.  Stop lecturing people about risk when you clearly don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

A lack of evidence that omicron does NOT provide immunity does not mean it DOES provide immunity.  We are just a gnat's ass past that wave.  Look at the charts.  Something new -- could be BA2, could be something else -- could be just around the corner.  Your hair trigger to say "all is well" is counterproductive.  We JUST went through a highly fatal wave and you are scolding people who would prefer to be a bit more cautious?  Fuck that.

You are probably the same guy that said "we don't know for sure deaths will be down in April" when we were arguing about this nonsense in February.  If you want to take the position that Omicron COULD somehow behave differently than every other coronavirus known to man including every variant of Covid-19 and provide zero future protection, you go right ahead.   

The rest of us that live in the real world can be pretty fucking sure that Omicron just washed a wave of natural vaccination across more than half the US population in 2.5 months and unless/until a new variant comes that evades prior immunity, hospitals are in fine shape for the foreseeable future.   Most of us think it's actually ok to react in real time to CURRENT risks instead of panic about what hypothetically could happen months from now.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Skipper

[wild_turkey 3150]

1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

We are just a gnat's ass past that wave.  Look at the charts.  Something new -- could be BA2, could be something else -- could be just around the corner.  Your hair trigger to say "all is well" is counterproductive.  We JUST went through a highly fatal wave and you are scolding people who would prefer to be a bit more cautious?  Fuck that.

Omicron and Delta were deadly waves for unvaccinated people. I don't know of a resource that looks at the U.S. as a whole, but the Texas DSHS website breaks down cases and deaths according to vaccination status within the state of Texas. It would be reasonable to extrapolate this data to the U.S. as a whole.

https://www.dshs.texas.gov/immunize/covid19/data/vaccination-status.aspx

During Omicron, the daily death rate for unvaccinated  people peaked at 14.8 deaths per 100,000 people. During Delta, the daily death rate for unvaccinated people peaked at 19.9 deaths per 100,000 people. Those are not great numbers, but they are in unvaccinated people who have been given every opportunity to get a simple shot to save themselves and they refuse to do so.

Compare those same waves of Covid with vaccinated people which saw a peak of about 1 death per day per 100,000 vaccinated people for each wave. That's pretty damn low for people who did the right thing, got their shot, and had some personal responsibility when it comes to their own health. Even though lots of vaccinated people still got Omicron and Delta, those waves of Covid can hardly be portrayed as "highly fatal" for vaccinated people. Omicron was basically a cold for most vaccinated people.

Where there seems to be some disconnect between your opinion and the opinion of many others here (myself included), is whether or not we should give a shit what happens to unvaccinated people at this point in the pandemic. You seem to lump vaccinated and unvaccinated people together because deaths are deaths.

I agree that any deaths are tragic, but I am far beyond the point of going out of my way to do anything to protect a person who was too selfish to get a shot for the greater good. They've made their decisions and my personal opinion (which I believe is shared by many other fully vaccinated people), is that we are tired of being asked to modify our lifestyle and behaviors because a section of our society wouldn't get a simple shot. What happens to unvaccinated people only matters to me from the standpoint of whether or not our healthcare system is being overrun by their presence in our hospitals, which currently is not the case. It sucks when they die, but it also sucks when people die from any other reason that was entirely preventable. People aren't arguing to ban fast food because heart disease and diabetes are major killers. Let people make their own foolish healthcare decisions if they want to.

I'm not here to tell you that you should or should not care about unvaccinated people. That's up to you. I'm just explaining that for many of us, the only relevant statistics for the pandemic at this stage are how the virus is affecting vaccinated people, which has been fairly minimal for a LONG time now. Not just since February 2022, but since summer 2021.

So yeah, we're over it. And no, I don't want to wear a mask on a plane if I don't have to. I did my part wearing a mask on planes - and every day all day at work (healthcare)  - for the past 2+ years. It's time to move on.

Edited April 20, 2022 by wild_turkey

[Skipper 6088]

5 minutes ago, wild_turkey said:

Where there seems to be some disconnect between your opinion and the opinion of many others here (myself included), is whether or not we should give a shit what happens to unvaccinated people at this point in the pandemic. You seem to lump vaccinated and unvaccinated people together because deaths are deaths.

I agree that any deaths are tragic, but I am far beyond the point of going out of my way to do anything to protect a person who was too selfish to get a shot for the greater good. They've made their decisions and my personal opinion (which I believe is shared by many other fully vaccinated people), is that we are tired of being asked to modify our lifestyle and behaviors because a section of our society wouldn't get a simple shot. What happens to unvaccinated people only matters to me from the standpoint of whether or not our healthcare system is being overrun by their presence in our hospitals, which currently is not the case.

Well articulated.  I'll add at this point the percentage of people that (i) are not vaccinated, (ii) have never had COVID and (iii) are at high risk of severe disease from COVID is very small.   Much smaller than it was 6 months ago or 6 months before that.  This is the key takeaway.  Based on what we know right now with respect to current known variants, there is not a path for the healthcare system to be overrun.   The reason Omicron was not comparatively as bad in Texas as it was in other locations from a severe disease standpoint is largely thought to be because of the larger Delta wave.

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

5 hours ago, Anastasis said:

 

 

You may be in luck!

 

Think I read about a fall distribution of it.  Thinking I will hold off on a second booster until then.  

 

[Anastasis 23375]

4 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

Think I read about a fall distribution of it.  Thinking I will hold off on a second booster until then.  
 

Yeah, I am coasting on one booster for the foreseeable future. Not boosting the kids. In setting of low community transmission, gonna wait for v2 with the omiChronic. 

 

 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19074]

41 minutes ago, wild_turkey said:

Omicron and Delta were deadly waves for unvaccinated people. I don't know of a resource that looks at the U.S. as a whole, but the Texas DSHS website breaks down cases and deaths according to vaccination status within the state of Texas. It would be reasonable to extrapolate this data to the U.S. as a whole.

https://www.dshs.texas.gov/immunize/covid19/data/vaccination-status.aspx

During Omicron, the daily death rate for unvaccinated  people peaked at 14.8 deaths per 100,000 people. During Delta, the daily death rate for unvaccinated people peaked at 19.9 deaths per 100,000 people. Those are not great numbers, but they are in unvaccinated people who have been given every opportunity to get a simple shot to save themselves and they refuse to do so.

Compare those same waves of Covid with vaccinated people which saw a peak of about 1 death per day per 100,000 vaccinated people for each wave. That's pretty damn low for people who did the right thing, got their shot, and had some personal responsibility when it comes to their own health. Even though lots of vaccinated people still got Omicron and Delta, those waves of Covid can hardly be portrayed as "highly fatal" for vaccinated people. Omicron was basically a cold for most vaccinated people.

Where there seems to be some disconnect between your opinion and the opinion of many others here (myself included), is whether or not we should give a shit what happens to unvaccinated people at this point in the pandemic. You seem to lump vaccinated and unvaccinated people together because deaths are deaths.

I agree that any deaths are tragic, but I am far beyond the point of going out of my way to do anything to protect a person who was too selfish to get a shot for the greater good. They've made their decisions and my personal opinion (which I believe is shared by many other fully vaccinated people), is that we are tired of being asked to modify our lifestyle and behaviors because a section of our society wouldn't get a simple shot. What happens to unvaccinated people only matters to me from the standpoint of whether or not our healthcare system is being overrun by their presence in our hospitals, which currently is not the case. It sucks when they die, but it also sucks when people die from any other reason that was entirely preventable. People aren't arguing to ban fast food because heart disease and diabetes are major killers. Let people make their own foolish healthcare decisions if they want to.

I'm not here to tell you that you should or should not care about unvaccinated people. That's up to you. I'm just explaining that for many of us, the only relevant statistics for the pandemic at this stage are how the virus is affecting vaccinated people, which has been fairly minimal for a LONG time now. Not just since February 2022, but since summer 2021.

So yeah, we're over it. And no, I don't want to wear a mask on a plane if I don't have to. I did my part wearing a mask on planes - and every day all day at work (healthcare)  - for the past 2+ years. It's time to move on.

So are you saying we can go back to not giving a shit about unvaccinated people?  Cause I have been there since Summer of 2021.  Seriously though, it isn't those folks I worry for.  It is the people for whom the vaccine doesn't generate an immune response or people who medically cannot get a vaccine.  Those are the folks I am interested in trying to protect.  The people who should be shunned from society are the selfish assholes, not those who cannot generate an immune response or medically cannot take the vaccine.

[jimmyjazz 45513]

I'll just continue to be concerned for everyone, not just the smarties that get their vaxxes.  Y'all can be happy that unvaxxed and immunocompromised and other random people die, that looks good on you.

Tomorrow is 4 months for me from booster #1, I'm lining up.  You know, doing my part.

What a depressing thread.

[fattyflattie 4636]

Dulles was about 70/30 for masked/unmasked today.  Sat up front in Penelopes part of the plane, about 70/30 unmasked to masked. Was really curious what it was like in the back today.   IAH was about 40% masked this afternoon on arrival. Maybe less.  I figure by next week it’ll be down to 10% here in IAH and 35-40% at IAD. 

[wild_turkey 3150]

Y'all can be happy that unvaxxed and immunocompromised and other random people die, that looks good on you.

No one here said they are happy that unvaccinated or immunocompromised people die.

I said that I am tired of modifying my behavior (e.g. wearing a mask on a plane) to protect unvaccinated people. I will continue to wear a mask when in a situation that I am required to do so, but I’m also happy to see masking requirements regressing.

Huge difference from that and being happy that unvaccinated people die.

[Anastasis 23375]

12 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Y'all can be happy that unvaxxed and immunocompromised and other random people die, that looks good on you.

What is wrong with you jimmy? Nobody is happy that people die. 

 

Unvaxxed need to get vaxxed. Immunocompromised need to wear fitted N95 or better masks and avoid high risk situations. And most of the rest of us need to embrace some form of return to normalcy in the setting of low community transmission while we can, and reassess continually if shit gets sideways. I think that we will be dealing with a sliding scale wrt risk avoidance moving forward.  Right now is a good time if you are in Austin and surrounding areas to take advantage imo. You may not like it, I don't necessarily, but this appears to be the new normal. I ain't itching to get on an plane any time soon, but if I was really worried about it I would wear an fitted N95 and feel ok about it without regard to what anyone was doing around me.  I certainly would not bitch and moan about people not wearing their masks while I sit up front and sip my cocktails and eat pretzels or whatever. People are done with the theatre of much of it.  That doesn't mean that they want random people to die. 

[Anastasis 23375]

16 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Dulles was about 70/30 for masked/unmasked today.  Sat up front in Penelopes part of the plane, about 70/30 unmasked to masked. Was really curious what it was like in the back today.   IAH was about 40% masked this afternoon on arrival. Maybe less.  I figure by next week it’ll be down to 10% here in IAH and 35-40% at IAD. 

I have not been in an airport since Feb 2020 and I do not miss one bit of business travel at all. 

 

[jimmyjazz 45513]

4 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

What is wrong with you jimmy?

Nothing.

 

Quote

Nobody is happy that people die. 

I think that's a stretch.

 

Quote

Unvaxxed need to get vaxxed. Immunocompromised need to wear fitted N95 or better masks and avoid high risk situations. And most of the rest of us need to embrace some form of return to normalcy in the setting of low community transmission while we can, and reassess continually if shit gets sideways. I think that we will be dealing with a sliding scale wrt risk avoidance moving forward.  

I know you agree that oscillating public health policy is a bad thing.  The right thing to do is to be cautious, so policy doesn't need to be reversed.  In that light, I am talking EXCLUSIVELY in terms of public transit, and I think removing the mask mandates for air/bus/train/subway travel is ill-advised.  Wait a month or two.  See if things stay low.

Nothing is fucking "wrong with me".  Read what I write.

[Anastasis 23375]

7 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I think that's a stretch.

You are right. 

 

[Anastasis 23375]

9 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I know you agree that oscillating public health policy is a bad thing.  The right thing to do is to be cautious, so policy doesn't need to be reversed. 

At this point in the pandemic, I don't have a problem with sliding scale policy based on objective criteria such as community transmission rates. The problem is that we have not been provided with objective criteria. Still. At this point with shit. People are done man. We needed clear off ramps in early 2021 once vax came online. We had those discussions on this board at the time about the need, even hedging concerns around variants and staying frosty. I think that if you give people objective and measurable public health goals, you at least have something to work towards and some basis behind a public health policy that can be defended openly. The alternative is political polling, the court system, political machinations, and run up to mid terms. We are operating under the alternative for the foreseeable future. 

[MonkeyDoughnut 10134]

"IF the CDC says it's needed?". Would there would be anything to appeal if they didn't?

[TXSooner518 2432]

Interesting read: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2022/04/covid-vaccine-is-effective-immunocompromised/629596/.

[TXSooner518 2432]

Interesting read: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2022/04/covid-vaccine-is-effective-immunocompromised/629596/.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8799]

You're kind of hysterical.  I have no idea who Eric Feigl DIng is, either.  I "follow" no entity other than the CDC.
Omicron was the second deadliest variant to date.  You accuse me of making assumptions and yet YOU are the one doing exactly that.  I am saying we need some science to back up your assumptions before we act on them in terms of public health policy.  Don't point the finger at me when you're the one who is being irrational.

Was it the second deadliest or was it coat riding with delta deaths after the delta wave was coming down?

[MNLonghornFUKM 8799]

You're kind of hysterical.  I have no idea who Eric Feigl DIng is, either.  I "follow" no entity other than the CDC.
Omicron was the second deadliest variant to date.  You accuse me of making assumptions and yet YOU are the one doing exactly that.  I am saying we need some science to back up your assumptions before we act on them in terms of public health policy.  Don't point the finger at me when you're the one who is being irrational.

Was it the second deadliest or was it coat riding with delta deaths after the delta wave was coming down?

[Skipper 6088]

11 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

  In that light, I am talking EXCLUSIVELY in terms of public transit, and I think removing the mask mandates for air/bus/train/subway travel is ill-advised.  Wait a month or two.  See if things stay low.

Nothing is fucking "wrong with me".  Read what I write.

Based on 'reading what you write', I don't think there is ever actually going to be a time where you would actually support easing of restrictions.  Covid Zero is never going to happen.  Never.  Things might get slightly better if you tack on an Omicron specific booster but hard to imagine you will have >50% uptake of that.  So this is probably about the best it's going to be with upticks/waves as immunity wanes and Omicron mutates with hopefully a slight further reduction in hospitalizations/deaths over time as we eventually reach ~ 100% getting some form of protection. But from a risk of transmission standpoint, and from a personal risk standpoint (i.e., availability of vaccines, therapeutics and N95's) it's the best it's been in 2+ years.  

[Goredho 17302]

I just lost my step mother to covid.  75 years old, unvaccinated.  She was a southern baptist who completely bought into the alt-truth narrative regarding covid and vaccines.  She had somehow managed to avoid covid with no precautions taken this whole time.  But a couple weeks ago she apparently caught it, got sick, it got serious, went to the hospital, died two days later.  I had no idea until one of her biological children (likewise an alt-truth believer) called me yesterday to let me know she had died of “pneumonia.”  Another, more sensible of her biological children called me later and told me the pneumonia was the result of covid.  

I’m sad.  She was a big figure in my childhood, but we had grown distant as our world views had become pretty radically opposed.  I wish she would have just taken the vaccine.  I wish she could have been allowed to just be a conservative Christian  without being unwittingly conscripted as cannon fodder in this ridiculous war being waged against harsh, uncomfortable reality.

I keep turning to this passage from a River Runs Through It that has always resonated with me:

”Each one of us here today will at one time in our lives look upon a loved one who is in need and ask the same question: We are willing to help, Lord, but what, if anything, is needed? For it is true we can seldom help those closest to us. Either we don't know what part of ourselves to give or, more often than not, the part we have to give is not wanted. And so it is those we live with and should know who elude us. But we can still love them - we can love completely without complete understanding.”

[jimmyjazz 45513]

58 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Based on 'reading what you write', I don't think there is ever actually going to be a time where you would actually support easing of restrictions.

So, you're accusing me of lying.  I've got that going for me, which is nice.

[wildcat09 29187]

59 minutes ago, Goredho said:

I just lost my step mother to covid.  75 years old, unvaccinated.  She was a southern baptist who completely bought into the alt-truth narrative regarding covid and vaccines.  She had somehow managed to avoid covid with no precautions taken this whole time.  But a couple weeks ago she apparently caught it, got sick, it got serious, went to the hospital, died two days later.  I had no idea until one of her biological children (likewise an alt-truth believer) called me yesterday to let me know she had died of “pneumonia.”  Another, more sensible of her biological children called me later and told me the pneumonia was the result of covid.  

I’m sad.  She was a big figure in my childhood, but we had grown distant as our world views had become pretty radically opposed.  I wish she would have just taken the vaccine.  I wish she could have been allowed to just be a conservative Christian  without being unwittingly conscripted as cannon fodder in this ridiculous war being waged against harsh, uncomfortable reality.

I keep turning to this passage from a River Runs Through It that has always resonated with me:

”Each one of us here today will at one time in our lives look upon a loved one who is in need and ask the same question: We are willing to help, Lord, but what, if anything, is needed? For it is true we can seldom help those closest to us. Either we don't know what part of ourselves to give or, more often than not, the part we have to give is not wanted. And so it is those we live with and should know who elude us. But we can still love them - we can love completely without complete understanding.”

What's wild is how many different countries in the world have similar partisanship to us right now but never made most covid measures a partisan issue. It's hard to imagine an alternate history where testing and masking weren't immediately made into a red/blue thing here, but much of it turned on initial Republican messaging, which was just based on trying to appease Trump's whims. He didn't want testing because it would make the numbers on the tv go up and make him look bad, and he didn't want masking because he thought wearing a mask made him look like a pussy. And because of that, many hundreds of thousands more died than probably otherwise would have.

[jimmyjazz 45513]

1 hour ago, Goredho said:

I just lost my step mother to covid.  75 years old, unvaccinated.  She was a southern baptist who completely bought into the alt-truth narrative regarding covid and vaccines.  She had somehow managed to avoid covid with no precautions taken this whole time.  But a couple weeks ago she apparently caught it, got sick, it got serious, went to the hospital, died two days later.  I had no idea until one of her biological children (likewise an alt-truth believer) called me yesterday to let me know she had died of “pneumonia.”  Another, more sensible of her biological children called me later and told me the pneumonia was the result of covid.  

I’m sad.  She was a big figure in my childhood, 

Sorry to hear this.  Political differences or not, it's hard to lose family.

[Hookah Horns 3058]

8 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

What's wild is how many different countries in the world have similar partisanship to us right now but never made most covid measures a partisan issue. It's hard to imagine an alternate history where testing and masking weren't immediately made into a red/blue thing here, but much of it turned on initial Republican messaging, which was just based on trying to appease Trump's whims. He didn't want testing because it would make the numbers on the tv go up and make him look bad, and he didn't want masking because he thought wearing a mask made him look like a pussy. And because of that, many hundreds of thousands more died than probably otherwise would have.

Of all the nefarious and incompetent shit TFG did to hurt America, I think this bullshit will be the number 1 thing he's remembered for. It's the greatest failure of leadership in the history of the office. Trump blows away Andrew Johnson in that category. And history will note that reelection was teed up for him if only he'd have just swung at the ball instead of shoving it up his fat orange ass. 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19074]

4 hours ago, Goredho said:

I just lost my step mother to covid.  75 years old, unvaccinated.  She was a southern baptist who completely bought into the alt-truth narrative regarding covid and vaccines.  She had somehow managed to avoid covid with no precautions taken this whole time.  But a couple weeks ago she apparently caught it, got sick, it got serious, went to the hospital, died two days later.  I had no idea until one of her biological children (likewise an alt-truth believer) called me yesterday to let me know she had died of “pneumonia.”  Another, more sensible of her biological children called me later and told me the pneumonia was the result of covid.  

I’m sad.  She was a big figure in my childhood, but we had grown distant as our world views had become pretty radically opposed.  I wish she would have just taken the vaccine.  I wish she could have been allowed to just be a conservative Christian  without being unwittingly conscripted as cannon fodder in this ridiculous war being waged against harsh, uncomfortable reality.

I keep turning to this passage from a River Runs Through It that has always resonated with me:

”Each one of us here today will at one time in our lives look upon a loved one who is in need and ask the same question: We are willing to help, Lord, but what, if anything, is needed? For it is true we can seldom help those closest to us. Either we don't know what part of ourselves to give or, more often than not, the part we have to give is not wanted. And so it is those we live with and should know who elude us. But we can still love them - we can love completely without complete understanding.”

I am sorry for your loss.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8799]

Philly after zero cities followed their lead for bringing back indoor masks

[workswithseed 2033]

We had to wear masks at Zion to get on the shuttle, but a day later we didn't at Bryce Canyon shuttle. I'm guessing it had to do with the plane mask requirement?

[Don Johnson 4744]

4 hours ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Philly after zero cities followed their lead for bringing back indoor masks

 

[GreenspointTexas 9556]

Cases back up above 50k for first time in 2 months