CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk

[Ghost of LL 15665]

I get your argument, but it is undeniably wrong to let those fuckers make the selfish, short sighted decision that contributed to their fucked-ness, and then give them a fucking bailout because they're too big to fail.
We've done that before. Fuck that. Make some fucking heads roll and make changes so we never need to intervene to protect a private corporation from their own selfish profit seeking. They need the bailout? Make. Them. Earn. It. 

I don’t think we’re saying different things. There should be conditions attached. But the bailout is necessary and proper to save an industry that is critical to our economy.


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[Lurch 5949]

We made money off of the GM bailout. I’d hope we’d leverage the same approach here.

[Gil Bang 26177]

Fuck, this is all depressing.

 

Here's a break:

 

[Brisketexan 106630]

Airlines shouldn't have spent $50 billion on stock buybacks when they now need $50 billion for bailouts. Should have saved that money for a rainy day rather than pumping up their stock prices for greedy shareholders and overpaid executives. The buybacks were part of the reason this asset bubble became so large.
Need a bailout? Turn over the keys and we will find RESPONSIBLE managers for these "too big to fail" behemoths. 

I don’t think we’re saying different things. There should be conditions attached. But the bailout is necessary and proper to save an industry that is critical to our economy.


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Both are true.
Here’s a simple solution: one of the strings attached should be that every share an airline bought back in the past 24 months is transferred to the US government as a new stockholder. For zero price. That way, we taxpayers share in the increase in share price as the airlines recover.

[bad_teammate 13481]

Chuck proposing low-interest loans for small businesses.

Established Democratic leadership all sit in a room and plan how to squander every possible opportunity.

[washparkhorn 9967]

3 minutes ago, Lurch said:

We made money off of the GM bailout. I’d hope we’d leverage the same approach here.

100% False.

[4th&Five 41905]

19 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

 

Can I get a redo on my primary vote? 
 

(I voted for Liz)

[gmr548 16681]

6 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Chuck proposing low-interest loans for small businesses.

Established Democratic leadership all sit in a room and plan how to squander every possible opportunity.

Wow.

[Guest Lobo]

11 minutes ago, Lurch said:

We made money off of the GM bailout. I’d hope we’d leverage the same approach here.

Yes, money was paid from GM to the Federal Government.  In the same way I sent Visa "a monetary payment" last month.  Doesn't mean, they ended up better off.  

[jw4381 3242]

On 3/16/2020 at 4:48 PM, GhostOfTomJoad said:

Harris county showing real leadership. Abbott is spinning his fucking wheels. Mrs. Ghost works for DSHS and they're still waiting for him to give the go ahead to activate emergency plans. Only he can, and as a result offices across the state aren't working in unison. Texas still doesn't have a defined COVID-19 response plan so they're cutting and pasting a beautifully prepared plan from New Mexico, one of the poorest states in the entire union. Way to go, Texas.

Orale, vatos.

5 hours ago, A-Tex Devil said:

  So South Korea, with wider testing, likely caught folks with "walking" COVID-19 at a higher rate than Italy, better preventing the spread.  

The Walking COVID-19 doesn't quite have the ring of the Walking Dead, but it could work...

How about we approach all this bailout bullshit like Iceland did?

[Gil Bang 26177]

even a poor state like NM has a lot of smart people.

[Nivek 17331]

Sacred cows lead to zero incentive to act responsibly either.  Hey boys, let's get some bonus money for fucking up and thinking short term, don't worry other industries need us and the government will socialize our losses while we privatize our gains.  

43 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

American airlines have never been nationalized, but they were heavily regulated.  And today, you can get to more places for less money than you could under regulation.

Regulation created bloated corporations that provided poor service for an inflated price.  Shielding airlines from competition did not help the consumer; it hurt the consumer and aided only car manufacturers.

Nationalization would be no different.  There's a reason that virtually no developed country has a nationalized airline industry anymore.  It leads to poor service, high fares, and enormous losses for the carrier.

 

[Guest Lobo]

5 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

even a poor state like NM has a lot of smart people.

Pipe down, Gale B. 

Edited March 18, 2020 by Lobo

[Gil Bang 26177]

4 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Sacred cows lead to zero incentive to act responsibly either.  Hey boys, let's get some bonus money for fucking up and thinking short term, don't worry other industries need us and the government will socialize our losses while we privatize our gains.  

 

They don't know that they are sacred cows.  Eastern Airlines was huge...they're gone without a trace. 

[Lurch 5949]

Yes, money was paid from GM to the Federal Government.  In the same way I sent Visa "a monetary payment" last month.  Doesn't mean, they ended up better off.  

My bad. We got 70B of our 80B investment back. I’d guess there was substantial benefit in tax revenue from those that were able to remain employed that could be factored in as well. In retrospect, it seems a wise decision was made.

[Gil Bang 26177]

2 minutes ago, Lurch said:

 

My bad. We got 70B of our 80B investment back. I’d guess there was substantial benefit in tax revenue from those that were able to remain employed that could be factored in as well. In retrospect, it seems a wise decision was made.

 

The "wise decision" can't be measured in just dollars.  Keeping that industrial capacity is critical, should we ever find ourselves in a big war again.  Factories can be retooled to build tanks or cannons instead of Silverados, in a pinch. 

[Lurch 5949]

The "wise decision" can't be measured in just dollars.  Keeping that industrial capacity is critical, should we ever find ourselves in a big war again.  Factories can be retooled to build tanks or cannons instead of Silverados, in a pinch. 

Completely agree. It’s an investment serving many purposes, not just financial ones.

[Pasken 1310]

 

[Message Board User 12405]

 

[pacman 7491]

47 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

Airlines shouldn't have spent $50 billion on stock buybacks when they now need $50 billion for bailouts. Should have saved that money for a rainy day rather than pumping up their stock prices for greedy shareholders and overpaid executives. The buybacks were part of the reason this asset bubble became so large.

Need a bailout? Turn over the keys and we will find RESPONSIBLE managers for these "too big to fail" behemoths. 

Ypu couldn't better highlight the current problem with our economy more than this right here. Companies so focused on stock price and overpaying the c-suite that they ignore all reasonable responsibilities to workers and communities. All the while having too favorable bankruptcy protections and access to government funds for bailouts and failed, underperforming contracts.

 

"We the people", became We the corporations..

[Grade of D as in David 13255]

1 hour ago, SimonBolivar said:

Not that it matters in the big picture, but I've been watching the amusement industry and SeaWorld/Busch, CedarFair, and Six Flags are all really hurting. SeaWorld has a market cap of only $800M, Cedar Fair is at $900M, and Six Flags is at $1B....we might see one of these regional parks company collapse.

[Grade of D as in David 13255]

1 hour ago, Ghost of LL said:

American airlines have never been nationalized, but they were heavily regulated.  And today, you can get to more places for less money than you could under regulation.

Regulation created bloated corporations that provided poor service for an inflated price.  Shielding airlines from competition did not help the consumer; it hurt the consumer and aided only car manufacturers.

Nationalization would be no different.  There's a reason that virtually no developed country has a nationalized airline industry anymore.  It leads to poor service, high fares, and enormous losses for the carrier.

Deregulation leads to poor service, lower rates, bag, seat, boarding priority fees, and enormous losses for the airlines.

[Gatorubet 30636]

44 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

Can I get a redo on my primary vote? 
 

(I voted for Liz)

"No corporate bailouts" is a great soundbite for the left, and completely irresponsible.  If it means scrutinizing who gets $$ and makes repayment and a ban on stock repurchasing when and if things get better, then fine.   But no matter how stupid, we can't let some industries tank.

[Captainant 28400]

4 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

"No corporate bailouts" is a great soundbite for the left, and completely irresponsible.  If it means scrutinizing who gets $$ and makes repayment and a ban on stock repurchasing when and if things get better, then fine.   But no matter how stupid, we can't let some industries tank.

Sure, but you aren't going to make people happy when they still have to pay rent and bills and make ends meet, while a fucking multinational corporation gets a $50BILLION bailout because they made short-term focused bets that didn't pay off.

Surely you see the fucked up dichotomy of that, and understand why there's going to be nothing but opposition to anything short of public ownership. Because when smaller businesses make bad choices, they either get purchased or die. We're preventing our largest businesses from suffering fucking any consequences for their "profit and shareholders above all" decision making over the last decade.

[washparkhorn 9967]

6 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

"No corporate bailouts" is a great soundbite for the left, and completely irresponsible.  If it means scrutinizing who gets $$ and makes repayment and a ban on stock repurchasing when and if things get better, then fine.   But no matter how stupid, we can't let some industries tank.

Corporate Socialism; Public Austerity does not work.
 

We have the ability to PROGRESS from continually repeating our past failures. That is the definition of stupidity and insanity. 

[Gatorubet 30636]

Just now, washparkhorn said:

Corporate Socialism; Public Austerity does not work.
 

We have the ability to PROGRESS from continually repeating our past failures. That is the definition of stupidity and insanity. 

I have grave doubts about your first sentence.   I agree with the second.

[Gatorubet 30636]

6 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Sure, but you aren't going to make people happy when they still have to pay rent and bills and make ends meet, while a fucking multinational corporation gets a $50BILLION bailout because they made short-term focused bets that didn't pay off.

Surely you see the fucked up dichotomy of that, and understand why there's going to be nothing but opposition to anything short of public ownership. Because when smaller businesses make bad choices, they either get purchased or die. We're preventing our largest businesses from suffering fucking any consequences for their "profit and shareholders above all" decision making over the last decade.

Look, it was the inference that no corporate bailouts were to be had that I have an issue with.    I have no disagreement with your broader point.

[Message Board User 12405]

 

[pyrohornIII 4844]

5 hours ago, Degenerate Gardner said:

This admin is plenty focused. They just have different priorities, namely re-election and avoiding accountability for the shit they've pulled thus far. Nothing matters more than their own narrow self interests.

Trump is approaching this as he's done everything in his life.   Everyone but him is expendable.  He thinks if he can keep the economy strong enough, a few million deaths won't deter his base from re-electing him.  He's set up Pence to take the fall for this.

 

3 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

Season two of “Dirty Money” dropped on Netflix last week.

Jared and the Kushner family business got an entire episode.

If you go there, remember to watch season 1, episode 1.  It's a family thing.

2 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

And fuck the cruise lines along with the airlines.

They charter in foreign countries to avoid paying US taxes and avoid US regulations and laws.

They’re an even bigger “NOPE” than airlines and hotels.

I've only gone on one cruise, and only one of all the staff I met was a US citizen.  So, yeah fuck them when it comes to giving them US $$.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

A $1T...with a capital T, aid package...weeks after Trump’s team determined $2B would do the trick.

good stuff, simulator.

[Bama Chick 28596]

Oh look! Ivanka setting a good example by staying home with her kids!

Oh.




https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2544666/Ivanka-Trump-Arabella-baby-Joseph-three-happy-campers-snack-smores-fort-living-room.html

A SIX year old photo.

And where has she been anyway since it was announced she had been exposed?

She’s probably tested positive and that’s why Daddy Dearest is finally pretending to care about the rest of us.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13619]

Never underestimate the unmitigated gall of corporate fucks whose ass you just saved or sympathetic judges who will weigh in with a "well... you were both sorta wrong, but I'm gonna let you off the hook this time Joe Taxpayer. Just don't let me catch you not doing this again."

 

WASHINGTON — When Maurice R. Greenberg, the former chief executive of the American International Group, brought a class-action lawsuit against the government in 2011, contending that the Federal Reserve overstepped its bounds when it bailed out his company at the height of the financial crisis, the reaction was mainly befuddlement and outright ridicule.

When the case went to trial last fall, many legal experts predicted a lost cause, while both the government’s lawyers and elected officials were even more blunt: calling Mr. Greenberg an “ingrate” and the lawsuit, which demanded as much as $40 billion, an embarrassment.

But as the bench trial unfolded over nearly two months, Mr. Greenberg’s legal team, led by the prominent litigator David Boies, kept chipping away at witness after witness in pursuit of its own thesis: that the Fed had acted beyond its legal authority. By the time the trial concluded, many legal experts had moved the case from a slam-dunk for the government to too close to call. It would all depend on Judge Thomas C. Wheeler of the United States Court of Federal Claims.

On Monday, Judge Wheeler handed down his decision — a split judgment that in many ways agreed with both sides’ main points of contention. Yes, he ruled, the Fed had indeed crossed the legal line by demanding a 79.9 percent equity stake in A.I.G. as a condition of the bailout in 2008. But at the same time, the government was also correct that A.I.G. shareholders had not been damaged; in fact, they had been saved from bankruptcy and certain doom. He declined to award any damages.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/16/business/dealbook/judge-sides-with-ex-aig-chief-greenberg-against-us-but-awards-no-money.html

[Grade of D as in David 13255]

1 minute ago, Bama Chick said:

Oh look! Ivanka setting a good example by staying home with her kids!

 

 

Oh.




https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2544666/Ivanka-Trump-Arabella-baby-Joseph-three-happy-campers-snack-smores-fort-living-room.html

A SIX year old photo.

And where has she been anyway since it was announced she had been exposed?

She’s probably tested positive and that’s why Daddy Dearest is finally pretending to care about the rest of us.

 

Cupgrade, imo

[4th&Five 41905]

 

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

1 minute ago, 4th&Five said:

 

Still confident, @GRHorn?

[Bama Chick 28596]

Sherrod Brown is done with Mitch McConnell’s bullshittery.

[Horn Dog 10156]

3 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

And fuck the cruise lines along with the airlines.

They charter in foreign countries to avoid paying US taxes and avoid US regulations and laws.

They’re an even bigger “NOPE” than airlines and hotels.

No shit.  Why the fuck would we bail out FOREIGN cruise lines?  They are mainly based in the Bahamas to avoid paying US taxes and now they want US tax payer bailouts??  Holy shit.

[UDontKnow 10557]

2 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

even a poor state like NM has a lot of smart people.

Outside of Los Alamos and other labs with national defense contracts, New Mexico has no smart people. I had the misfortune of living in that godforsaken shit hole for two years.

[Bama Chick 28596]

Cruise lines not paying US taxes is bad enough but watch this to really get your hate on.

Let em sink.

[RPM 26563]

I've heard NM had excellent HS science teachers.

[Bama Chick 28596]

Lies and more lies.

[gmr548 16681]

Outside of Los Alamos and other labs with national defense contracts, New Mexico has no smart people. I had the misfortune of living in that godforsaken shit hole for two years.

So it's far more intellectually advanced than every other neighboring state, then.

[DanTheHorn 5061]

49 minutes ago, UDontKnow said:

Outside of Los Alamos and other labs with national defense contracts, New Mexico has no smart people. I had the misfortune of living in that godforsaken shit hole for two years.

Oh shit we already saw this in the recruiting and/or staff 2020 thread.

[UDontKnow 10557]

5 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

So it's far more intellectually advanced than every other neighboring state, then.

Touche, if we're only looking at neighboring states.

2 minutes ago, DanTheHorn said:

Oh shit we already saw this in the recruiting and/or staff 2020 thread.

Good eye, but it needed to be mentioned again. Moving forward, I'll restrict such geographic conversation to the recruiting thread.

[UDontKnow 10557]

15 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

Lies and more lies.

 

And this is why Birx should not be respected. Fauci needs to be the next one under the electron microscope, although I will give him credit that he has managed to keep his head above water during this catastrophic clusterfuck.

[MissingInAction 25478]

2 hours ago, Grade of D as in David said:

I got tetnus at a Sea World so fuck them all in the goat ass. 

[Bama Chick 28596]

lol CNN is now shitposting.

[cam4mav 772]

lmfao 

[Captainant 28400]

44 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

lol CNN is now shitposting.

 

What a fucking timeline we exist on. 

[AngryDragon 273]

So basically everyone in the government is on the UBI train now?  Only the Dems could screw up something that one of their own was championing but could wind up giving Trump a boost in his election chances.