CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk

[MNLonghornFUKM 8804]

Has to be brightline for some people.  If someone has a recoverable heart attack and drives their car off an overpass during it, whats the cause of death?

If a patient is 99% in the grave due to stage 4 cancer and one cough from contracting covid ends it... point covid?

 

That’s my point

[TwiceHorn 31344]

42 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

 

That's fucking fantastic.  Has there ever been a president so cuntly that he sent cease and desist letters over a campaign ad?

[JimmyJames 12271]

40 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

 

‘

About damn time. 

[cactusflinthead 27595]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

He needs to start microdosing. His brain is hellscape.

It's not always effective. You're going to have to tear down his ego to nothingness and start over. Not everyone that passes through the mist sees the light. They might come out even darker than before they left. 

[jimmyjazz 45612]

6 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

So don’t spout stupid fucking “facts”.

Well, let's see, assmunch.

National cancer deaths per day:  fact

National vehicular deaths per day:  fact

CDC coronavirus deaths per day:  fact

Exponential growth model:  so far, fact, with a remarkably consistent doubling rate of 2.5-2.6 days

 

So you tell me where the flaw in my post is, Einstein.  If your argument is that CDC is over-reporting deaths because a significant percentage of "COVID" deaths aren't actually COVID deaths, then YOU PROVE IT.  And while you're at it, debit the other death rates by those Americans who were about to die from (say) heart attack or flu or whatever suits your little fancy.

Edited March 26, 2020 by jimmyjazz

[JimmyJames 12271]

Personally I watch the trump press conferences until he starts obviously lying, which is always right about the time he goes off script. Its pretty obvious when that occurs. 

Kudos to any network who also follows this policy. There is no reason to show a pathological liar spout out more lies that will eventually kill more Americans. 

[ChickenSandwich 9803]

25 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

So you're saying the next time there's a hurricane in Houston or a tornado in Oklahoma, the feds should say fuck it.  You decided to move there, with all the pros and cons.  

Well maybe don’t insist upon yourself and constantly shit on other cities who don’t follow your overcrowding, over-welfare and lack of infrastructure to deal with it all model of city planning. 
 

Cumo might have a point about a “drop in the bucket for NY on this stimulus plan IF 1.) He didn’t already have a huge spending problem and budget deficit to match and 2.) He asked the obvious. Why is there a Billion going to an Opera House, performing arts center, NPR and PBS when people are fucking dying in my state?  
 

Your city was woefully vulnerable and unprepared due to overcrowding and lack of health care infrastructure. These issues weren’t spawned from a virus in China. 

Edited March 26, 2020 by ChickenSandwich

[JimmyJames 12271]

3 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

It's not always effective. You're going to have to tear down his ego to nothingness and start over. Not everyone that passes through the mist sees the light. They might come out even darker than before they left. 

Are y’all seriously discussing trying to help trump’s brain? That dude is so far gone.  You could stick him in a dungeon and whip him for a year and it still wouldn’t cure his pathology. He would emerge talking about how great he was to endure a year worth of whippings in a dungeon. The dude is a fucking lunatic level narcissist. The greatest I’ve ever seen. He doesn’t even try to hide it like most of them do. 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8804]

Well, let's see, assmunch.
National cancer deaths per day:  fact
National vehicular deaths per day:  fact
CDC coronavirus deaths per day:  fact
Exponential growth model:  so far, fact, with a remarkably consistent doubling rate of 2.5-2.6 days
 
So you tell me where the flaw in my post is, Einstein.

Assmunch? Lol what’s your problem? Someone questions you and you resort to name calling?




That hardly resembles anything that’s a 2 day-2.5 day double.


These next 5 days are going to be telling with how this graph shapes up

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

4 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

‘

About damn time. 

Didn’t Fox pretty much put the impeachment hearings in a little thumbnail box while they rambled on about how wonderful Ivanka’s manufacturing policy was going over in an impoverished country where women sew her dresses?

Perhaps the networks could do that if peeps are going to raise a stink. Or people could actually go to the WH website, something most Americans have never done despite being able to name the fourth best dancer on DWTS. 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8804]

Well, let's see, assmunch.

National cancer deaths per day:  fact

National vehicular deaths per day:  fact

CDC coronavirus deaths per day:  fact

Exponential growth model:  so far, fact, with a remarkably consistent doubling rate of 2.5-2.6 days

 

So you tell me where the flaw in my post is, Einstein.  If your argument is that CDC is over-reporting deaths because a significant percentage of "COVID" deaths aren't actually COVID deaths, then YOU PROVE IT.  And while you're at it, debit the other death rates by those Americans who were about to die from (say) heart attack or flu or whatever suits your little fancy.

Also So Germany just happens to have 30k cases and 206 deaths. Case fatality ratio of .5.

 

 

 

 

The US has drastically less deaths than Italy when they crossed 65k cases. And our hardest dense area is our epicenter

[cactusflinthead 27595]

5 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Are y’all seriously discussing trying to help trump’s brain? That dude is so far gone.  You could stick him in a dungeon and whip him for a year and it still wouldn’t cure his pathology. He would emerge talking about how great he was to endure a year worth of whippings in a dungeon. The dude is a fucking lunatic level narcissist. The greatest I’ve ever seen. He doesn’t even try to hide it like most of them do. 

It's so fucking grim that I entertained the idea. I agree. He's fubar. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

6 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Well maybe don’t insist upon yourself and constantly shit on other cities who don’t follow your overcrowding, over-welfare and lack of infrastructure to deal with it all model of city planning. 
 

Cumo might have a point about a “drop in the bucket for NY on this stimulus plan IF 1.) He didn’t already have a huge spending problem and budget deficit to match and 2.) He asked the obvious. Why is there a Billion going to an Opera House, performing arts center, NPR and PBS when people are fucking dying in my state?  
 

Your city was woefully vulnerable and unprepared due to overcrowding and lack of health care infrastructure. These issues weren’t spawned from a virus in China. 

And now here comes the evil republican bullshit blaming the cities for being “too overcrowded.”

You are a fucking asshole. 

[ChickenSandwich 9803]

4 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

And now here comes the evil republican bullshit blaming the cities for being “too overcrowded.”

You are a fucking asshole. 

For health care infrastructure?  
yes. If that makes me an asshole so be it. 
 

But population density and public transportation are no doubt huge factors in making NY Wuhan #2

Edited March 26, 2020 by ChickenSandwich

[henrygandorf 29183]

18 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

If a patient is 99% in the grave due to stage 4 cancer and one cough from contracting covid ends it... point covid?

 

That’s my point

what about people dying from "the flu" in smaller towns where tests were unavailable?  should we just call it a wash?

[cactusflinthead 27595]

7 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Also So Germany just happens to have 30k cases and 206 deaths. Case fatality ratio of .5.

 

 

 

 

The US has drastically less deaths than Italy when they crossed 65k cases. And our hardest dense area is our epicenter

Because they treated it like a pandemic from the very start instead of a hoax.

The biggest reason for the difference, infectious disease experts say, is Germany’s work in the early days of its outbreak to track, test and contain infection clusters. That means Germany has a truer picture of the size of its outbreak than places that test only the obviously symptomatic, most seriously ill or highest-risk patients.

"At the beginning, when we had relatively few cases, when it came to finding them and isolating them, we did quite well in Germany,” said Reinhard Busse, head of the department of health care management at the Berlin University of Technology. “That’s the major reason.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/germany-coronavirus-death-rate/2020/03/24/76ce18e4-6d05-11ea-a156-0048b62cdb51_story.html

 

[lemonlime 5503]

21 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Well maybe don’t insist upon yourself and constantly shit on other cities who don’t follow your overcrowding, over-welfare and lack of infrastructure to deal with it all model of city planning. 
 

Cumo might have a point about a “drop in the bucket for NY on this stimulus plan IF 1.) He didn’t already have a huge spending problem and budget deficit to match and 2.) He asked the obvious. Why is there a Billion going to an Opera House, performing arts center, NPR and PBS when people are fucking dying in my state?  
 

Your city was woefully vulnerable and unprepared due to overcrowding and lack of health care infrastructure. These issues weren’t spawned from a virus in China. 

Respond or don't.  I'm putting you on ignore because your drivel isn't worth reading.

But seriously fuck you and anyone like you who wants to spout this crap.  Apparently only your orange god, and maybe white straight men in red states are actually human beings.

Currently, I have a good friend who is due with her first child next week, with a high risk pregnancy, and will have to either deliver at home, or in a hospital overrun with people with coronavirus without even her husband with her.  Another friend is a nurse in a local hospital in which they are nearly out of face masks and gowns, never mind ventilators.  Two more have already been diagnosed with corona.  My elderly mother has an autoimmune disease.  All of whose deaths you're apparently cool with.

And you're throwing out nonsense about PBS, center of the universe, and overcrowding and lack of infrastructure, as though Podunk, Iowa hospitals are equipped to handle people with coronavirus.  Just fuck off.

Edited March 26, 2020 by lemonlime

[JimmyJames 12271]

4 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

For health care infrastructure?  
yes. If that makes me an asshole so be it. 

The reason our healthcare infrastructure sucks is because of people like you, or at least the people you pretend to be. 

Just admit it you want people in cities to die. The problem with this virus is, this won’t stop at the cities. Its coming for the people you pretend to represent and like as well. 

Or are you under the impression that the rural health care system is straight up legit. Let me spare you the suspense, its even worse thanks to people like you. Your rural friends are gonna be looking instead for healthcare in the overrun cities. But it won’t be there. 

Edited March 26, 2020 by JimmyJames

[jimmyjazz 45612]

13 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Assmunch? Lol what’s your problem? Someone questions you and you resort to name calling?




That hardly resembles anything that’s a 2 day-2.5 day double.

I didn't say 2-day to 2.5 day.  I said 2.5-day to 2.6-day, which has been a consistent # on a daily basis going on CDC data for over a week.

I don't know where your graph is from, but 151 deaths referenced to 800 is a lower (19%) growth rate than I've seen for quite a while.  Even so, your graph implies a 4-day doubling rate, which isn't exactly a home run.  Where is this graph from?  Reverse google search shows nothing.

[bad_teammate 13179]

Biiiiiiitch

biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitch

biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitch

[MNLonghornFUKM 8804]

what about people dying from "the flu" in smaller towns where tests were unavailable?  should we just call it a wash?

That’s concerning and I’ve asked that many times on here. Dahobbs brought up the number of deaths isn’t that high between test ramping and the start of all of this.


Still think there’s some undocumented deaths due to just covid

[4th&Five 41474]

2 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

The reason our healthcare infrastructure sucks is because of people like you, or at least the people you pretend to be. 

Just admit it you want people in cities to die. The problem with this virus is, this won’t stop at the cities. Its coming for the people you pretend to represent and like as well. 

Or are you under the impression that the rural health care system is straight up legit. Let me spare you the suspense, its even worse thanks to people like you. Your rural friends are gonna be looking instead for healthcare in the overrun cities. But it won’t be there. 

This. I’ve sold to rural hospitals in Texas for 18 years. Plenty don’t have 1 ICU bed. 

[triplehorn 2664]

4 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

The US has drastically less deaths than Italy when they crossed 65k cases. And our hardest dense area is our epicenter

Couple things to consider: I believe we reached 65k faster than Italy (if you count number of days starting after each had 100 cases).  Also, given that the avg age of Italian deaths is older than US, younger complicated cases may simply be living longer with ventilation before succumbing even though final death rates may be more comparable.  That's a morbid thought, but there's ongoing timeline overlap.

Also on 3/12, Italy had cumulative deaths of 827, with 196 dying on 3/12.  The US today has cumulative deaths of 801, with 211 dying today.  So very comparable 

Today,13 days later, Italy has 6820 cumulative deaths, and added 743 deaths today.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8804]

I didn't say 2-day to 2.5 day.  I said 2.5-day to 2.6-day, which has been a consistent # on a daily basis going on CDC data for over a week.
I don't know where your graph is from, but 151 deaths referenced to 800 is a lower (19%) growth rate than I've seen for quite a while.  Even so, your graph implies a 4-day doubling rate, which isn't exactly a home run.  Where is this graph from?  Reverse google search shows nothing.

https://coronavirus.1point3acres.com

Some graphs from the 2 sites I frequent are confusing. I use this one because it’s updated cdt. Worldometer is gmt

[MNLonghornFUKM 8804]

Because they treated it like a pandemic from the very start instead of a hoax.
The biggest reason for the difference, infectious disease experts say, is Germany’s work in the early days of its outbreak to track, test and contain infection clusters. That means Germany has a truer picture of the size of its outbreak than places that test only the obviously symptomatic, most seriously ill or highest-risk patients.
"At the beginning, when we had relatively few cases, when it came to finding them and isolating them, we did quite well in Germany,” said Reinhard Busse, head of the department of health care management at the Berlin University of Technology. “That’s the major reason.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/germany-coronavirus-death-rate/2020/03/24/76ce18e4-6d05-11ea-a156-0048b62cdb51_story.html
 

True. We screwed the pooch from the get go. We’re at least weeks behind where we should’ve been in early March.

NYC especially

[jimmyjazz 45612]

2 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

https://coronavirus.1point3acres.com

Some graphs from the 2 sites I frequent are confusing. I use this one because it’s updated cdt. Worldometer is gmt

I've been using worldometer.

[triplehorn 2664]

6 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

Because they treated it like a pandemic from the very start instead of a hoax.

The biggest reason for the difference, infectious disease experts say, is Germany’s work in the early days of its outbreak to track, test and contain infection clusters. That means Germany has a truer picture of the size of its outbreak than places that test only the obviously symptomatic, most seriously ill or highest-risk patients.

"At the beginning, when we had relatively few cases, when it came to finding them and isolating them, we did quite well in Germany,” said Reinhard Busse, head of the department of health care management at the Berlin University of Technology. “That’s the major reason.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/germany-coronavirus-death-rate/2020/03/24/76ce18e4-6d05-11ea-a156-0048b62cdb51_story.html

 

I wonder if you look more closely, if lower CFR is due to rapid early detection/diagnosis and medication cocktail initiation.  Germany seems like they'd be all over the medication application side of this.  I've considered from the start of this that early treatment before complications form (pneumonia) is likely key to better outcomes.  I'd really like to see if there's a difference with GER there.

[Ghost of LL 15500]

56 minutes ago, EMAWesome said:

Precisely at the same time polls start coming out that show an upward swing in Trump's approval ratings and other polls come out that show more people trust Trump's briefings than trust the media that is covering them the media decides to stop showing Trump's briefings.  I'm sure it's all just a coincidence.

I'm just wondering--how were W's ratings for his handling of Katrina?

I don't have the numbers, and maybe someone can provide them.  But my very vague recollection is that while the disaster was ongoing, W had reasonably high ratings for his handling of the crisis.  It wasn't until later that people understood the magnitude of the federal government's failings, and Katrina became Bush's Katrina.

[elfenix 34201]

2 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

does anyone have the fact-check on numbers of tests per country?  also how do you measure what the “best” test is?

if it says yes or no, doesn’t that mean it’s a working test?

again with the south korea stat. 

https://covidtracking.com/

[MNLonghornFUKM 8804]

Couple things to consider: I believe we reached 65k faster than Italy (if you count number of days starting after each had 100 cases).  Also, given that the avg age of Italian deaths is older than US, younger complicated cases may simply be living longer with ventilation before succumbing even though final death rates may be more comparable.  That's a morbid thought, but there's ongoing timeline overlap.
Also on 3/12, Italy had cumulative deaths of 827, with 196 dying on 3/12.  The US today has cumulative deaths of 801, with 211 dying today.  So very comparable 
Today,13 days later, Italy has 6820 cumulative deaths, and added 743 deaths today.

True. We’ve also discussed how dense and way of life Italy is compared to America. It’s no lie that New York City which has 27000 residents per square mile is getting pelted a lot harder than LA, Miami, Chicago with their 8-11k per sq mi density

[Dahobbs 17497]

24 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Assmunch? Lol what’s your problem? Someone questions you and you resort to name calling?




That hardly resembles anything that’s a 2 day-2.5 day double.


These next 5 days are going to be telling with how this graph shapes up

Uh, yes it does? It is a 3 day doubling curve. Each dot is a day. The bottom markers very based on how zoomed out you are. It looks like you have at 3 days per tick. 

[Dahobbs 17497]

3 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

True. We’ve also discussed how dense and way of life Italy is compared to America. It’s no lie that New York City which has 27000 residents per square mile is getting pelted a lot harder than LA, Miami, Chicago with their 8-11k per sq mi density

New York is farther along the curve and appears to have been exposed first (thus, more cases). Other areas are increasing at roughly the same doubling period, so I'm not sure how you are making that conclusion. 

[henrygandorf 29183]

1 hour ago, EMAWesome said:

Precisely at the same time polls start coming out that show an upward swing in Trump's approval ratings and other polls come out that show more people trust Trump's briefings than trust the media that is covering them people start dying from experimenting with medication they only heard about from the president, the media decides to stop showing Trump's briefings.  I'm sure it's all just a coincidence.

definitely a coincidence.

[zork 629]

4 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

This is kind of tangential, but I heard from someone that goes to an infusion clinic that many of the usual cancer patients there are being told by their doctors not to get chemo because it will weaken their immune systems too much and make them too susceptible to a fatal case of coronavirus.  People with auto immune conditions that get immunosuppressive treatments are also being told to stop.

So, there may well be “cancer” deaths that are actually because of the coronavirus disrupting treatment.   

Probably some flu deaths that weren't tested in late January and all of February as well.

Edited March 26, 2020 by zork

[Zombie 284]

1 hour ago, cactusflinthead said:

Pinned it to my profile. That's devastating 

Yep. Great ad.  So simple yet powerful. Thank you Trump Campaign for giving it so much free publicity. And now networks can air it as news without fear of legal retribution.  

[cactusflinthead 27595]

48 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

So don’t spout stupid fucking “facts”.

Here's some stupid fucking facts. Tokyo is heavy dense. This is known. 

Here's how many cases they have. 

So far, over 200 people have tested positive for the virus in Tokyo, raising the number of domestic cases past 2,000, including about 700 from the Diamond Princess, a cruise ship quarantined near Tokyo in February.

The number of people with the coronavirus who have died in Japan stands at 54.

 

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/03/25/national/science-health/tokyo-logs-40-coronavirus-cases/

Why? Because they didn't treat it like it was a hoax. 

[Francisco 2.0 32347]

19 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

I'm just wondering--how were W's ratings for his handling of Katrina?

I don't have the numbers, and maybe someone can provide them.  But my very vague recollection is that while the disaster was ongoing, W had reasonably high ratings for his handling of the crisis.  It wasn't until later that people understood the magnitude of the federal government's failings, and Katrina became Bush's Katrina.

 

I didn't dig too deep, there may be more details elsewhere:

 

https://www.usnews.com/news/the-report/articles/2015/08/28/hurricane-katrina-was-the-beginning-of-the-end-for-george-w-bush

Quote

Polls at the time bear out this negative assessment. A Washington Post-ABC News survey found that the bungled response to Katrina dragged down Bush's job approval rating in mid-September 2005 to 42 percent, the lowest of his presidency until that point, while 57 percent disapproved of his performance. Only 49 percent said he could be "trusted in a crisis" compared with 60 percent who felt that way a year earlier.

 

 

Edit: Here's some more info:

 

https://news.gallup.com/poll/24283/little-impact-katrina-bushs-overall-job-ratings.aspx

 

 

Edited March 26, 2020 by Francisco 2.0

[4th&Five 41474]

 

[cactusflinthead 27595]

2 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

I didn't dig too deep, there may be more details elsewhere:

 

https://www.usnews.com/news/the-report/articles/2015/08/28/hurricane-katrina-was-the-beginning-of-the-end-for-george-w-bush

 

 

Edit: Here's some more info:

 

https://news.gallup.com/poll/24283/little-impact-katrina-bushs-overall-job-ratings.aspx

 

 

You're a better man than me. I wonder if that was about the time of Helluva job Brownie 

[Francisco 2.0 32347]

 

[Bullneck 19028]

1 hour ago, EMAWesome said:

Precisely at the same time polls start coming out that show an upward swing in Trump's approval ratings and other polls come out that show more people trust Trump's briefings than trust the media that is covering them the media decides to stop showing Trump's briefings.  I'm sure it's all just a coincidence.

Polls are not the important thing right now.  if you want a poll to confirm your bias, you can find one.  If you comfort yourself that a person who died a horrible death might have been killed in car accident, that's for you.  Actually, you can't escape who you are.  You're a Trump man.  Give him your vote, your money, your health.  Good luck.

[Francisco 2.0 32347]

 

 

[mdmost 42914]

Greatest country on Earth, sure. I have people in my neighborhood Facebook group who work at local hospitals that are begging people on there for any masks people in the neighborhood might have. This is America.  

[Bullneck 19028]

5 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

 

2016 you say?  Who was president?  Oh, yeah.  

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

24 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

That’s concerning and I’ve asked that many times on here. Dahobbs brought up the number of deaths isn’t that high between test ramping and the start of all of this.


Still think there’s some undocumented deaths due to just covid

I agree. I think it was either this thread or maybe over in the (now) toxic DT thread that an article was linked that discussed Washington state’s decision to defy/ignore the CDC and start/develop a test to figure out what was going on and then the lid was off the box. 

24 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

This. I’ve sold to rural hospitals in Texas for 18 years. Plenty don’t have 1 ICU bed. 

This was why a neighbor returned from family land out in rural Texas. While isolation there was a plus at first, as more cases began popping up out there it became apparent that being more than an hour away from even a tiny hospital was problematic. 
 

Someone in Nebraska (where my spouse was raised) may think they are not going to be affected until they wake up and understand that I-80 is a corridor of transmission that will spread that virus like ants to sugar. I haven’t been back in a long time, but Grand Island is probably the closest good sized city (besides Kearney) until you get east and a lot of older folks in small towns from north to south and west to east will be afflicted if not in the spring, then this fall. 

[Francisco 2.0 32347]

Since I didn't watch the presser, and didn't go back through this thread....this happened:

 

 

 

[JimmyJames 12271]

4 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Greatest country on Earth, sure. I have people in my neighborhood Facebook group who work at local hospitals that are begging people on there for any masks people in the neighborhood might have. This is America.  

Not a surprise. Rural hospitals have been gutted the worst for decades. For the same reason you can never find a hammer in a small town unless you travel to wherever the nearest Wal Mart might be. 

[mdmost 42914]

I live in East Dallas, man. One guy works at Children's f'ing Hospital. 

Edited March 26, 2020 by mdmost

[BrickHorn 18199]

1 minute ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

 

Once again, Democrats quickly get to the right answer while Republicans waste precious time advocating for dumb shit, fighting the truth, and generally being disruptive loudmouth oafs.  The GOP is the class dunce of political parties.  And the amazing thing is: they never fucking learn.  You’d think that after being wrong about damned near everything for their entire existence, they’d snap out of it one day and say “This time I’m listening to liberals.  They’re always right.”

I guess @Brisketexan finally came around.  So maybe there’s hope?

[bad_teammate 13179]