CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk

[tx 3 putt 76171]

10 hours ago, HenryJames said:

 

 

treason 

[Jhawkmvp 1489]

I just returned to South Korea yesterday after 16 days in the USA. Interesting to see the change in a couple weeks. When I left there had only been a few cases like the USA, but while I was gone it started spreading quickly. First flight back here was canceled (Japan Airlines), but I was able to fly American Airlines over. The flight over to the USA was full; however, on the flight back every single passenger had 3 seats to themselves.  You could nap laying down. The airport immigration is usually 10-15 minute wait. Most stations were closed, I waited less than 2 minutes. They had temperature cameras set up and people in full body suits between the gates and immigration. The only people getting special attention were the Chinese who had to go through a different line, and the people with body suits, to enter. I was actually surprised how easy it was to enter, if you were not Chinese. Pretty much business as usual for non-Chinese travelers.

I flew to Seoul then took the high speed train to where I live, since my city flies through Tokyo when you go east to the USA and Japan suspended all flights to S. Korea. If I flew there, I would have had to wait a day, so it was faster just to take train down from Seoul. The KTX (high speed train) was almost empty. Of 15 cars, only 2-3 had people and those cars were like 15-20% full. The subways/buses I have taken the last couple days were also very empty, like 10% of capacity.

Everyone has a mask (99%). Masks were already in high supply here as people often wear them when sick here and/or on days when the pollution that blows over from China is very bad.  Though the average mask is not going to be very effective keeping you safe from infection, they are much better at keeping a sick person wearing one from passing it on. So everyone wearing one should help a lot. Hand sanitizer is provided at many businesses for people entering and exiting the building. A lot of businesses are closed or open only during the busiest part of the day and are extremely slow even then. Schools are suspended 3 weeks. My employer requires a mask to enter the building. Everyone spends as much time as they can isolated at home for the most part. 

[Mapache 1117]

 

[WhatTheBuck 28701]

Washing hands. Good metaphor. 

[Loco 3752]

Pontius Pence?

[Francisco 2.0 32290]

Gee, imagine that.

https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/03/03/coronavirus-emergency-bill-119729?__twitter_impression=true

Quote

House and Senate leaders have run into last-minute snags on a $7.5 billion emergency package to combat the U.S. spread of coronavirus, including disputes over vaccine availability and hospital reimbursement costs.

 

Quote

The biggest issue, according to several people familiar with negotiations, involves a Democratic attempt to control the costs of vaccines and other treatments that are developed in response to the outbreak. Other issues include details of hospital reimbursement for uninsured patients and whether to pay for a provision to help expand telemedicine, which would cost roughly $500 million.

 

Quote

Democrats are insisting the spending package include significant funding to purchase large amounts of coronavirus diagnostics, treatments and vaccine, when it becomes available, which would then be made available to the public free of cost, according to a senior Democratic aide. 

The Democratic aide said Republicans are trying to eliminate the “fair and reasonable price” federal procurement standard for the vaccines and treatments that will be developed and purchased with the emergency funds. “Fair and reasonable price” is a basic standard to prevent price gouging in federal contracts.

 

[Party_Taco 3671]

We shut down all corporate travel for the remainder of the month, cancelled multiple major events and are putting plans in place for all but key personnel to work from home. That said, our infrastructure will grind to a halt if we attempt to VPN even a quarter of those folks... so ain’t a lot of work getting done if this keeps apace.

[WhatTheBuck 28701]

2 hours ago, Loco said:

Pontius Pence?

Welease Woger!

[HenryJames 65869]

I knew it was the negro’s fault.

[TXSG8R 3356]

10 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

I knew it was the negro’s fault.

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1235247083411648513?s=20

Im trying to process how this would make things more accurate.  

[4th&Five 41457]

 

[Goredho 17307]

I had a discussion on messenger yesterday with a HS friend who I know is a director of an elder care facility in the Austin area (I can't remember which one).  She's also a full blown Trumpkin who loves Hannity and Tucker.

Me:  Hey, got time to talk about the coronavirus?

Her:  Sure.

Me:  So what's your general take?

Her:  People are freaking out for no reason.  Flu is much worse and so much more deadly for the elderly.  They are talking about cancelling SXSW.  That's ridiculous.

Me:  You feel that way with what's gone on with the Washington elder-care facility?

She didn't respond, so after a few minutes I prodded again...

Me:  They have had 8 people die in under a week.  Its like 4% of the resident population, for around a 16% mortality rate among the infected.  Its still an active outbreak.  Are those numbers normal for a flu outbreak in an old folks home?

Her:  Well, it has to do with how well those patients are monitored.  They may have nurses who are less skilled or poorly trained and do not act to care for the residents in a way they should.  If flu came to our facility, it would be a disaster.  These people are old, frail and have no reserves to fight.

Me:  So you say that sounds high, but it may be because of the quality of care they are receiving at this facility in Washington?

Her:  We lysol everything often during flu season.  We clean and wipe every touchable surface as often as we can.  We also encourage staff to stay at home if they are ill.

Me:  Well, I'm mostly concerned about my mom.  She's in her 80s and in an independent living apartment building there in Austin (note: not this friend's facility)

Her:  She will be fine.  Tell her to wash her hands.  The independent living residents are less at risk.  You can always move her out temporarily if you need to.

Me:  Ok.  Thanks.

At this point, I feel kind of uncomfortable about the conversation, her attitude and position of responsibility.  So I do a little research and pick up the conversation again, hoping to get her to consider that maybe she needs to have a little more concern about what's going on.

Me:  Oh, found the data on the flu.  Looks like its mortality rate for people 65 and older is 0.83%.  Check this link -- https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2018-2019.html?fbclid=IwAR090tLD_ZYLG7kk95KgKAMJZSMbA3JRhsxABrRGV_0Tct0rfWsJJc_SbKI.  It eems like the 16% rate being seen in that Washington facility would indicate this could be much more dangerous for older people than the flu if it enters their environment.

Her:  I'll take a look later, but I have to work right now.  Your mom is fine, don't freak out.

Me:  Sorry, just trying to be informed.  When you have time to respond -- do you have the ability to test your residents for coronavirus and isolate them or your staff if someone tests positive?

I haven't received a response.  Its times like this where misinformation and elective reality are extremely dangerous.

Edited March 4, 2020 by Goredho

[TXSooner518 2432]

Yeah I was at jury duty Monday and this guy behind me was talking loudly about how everyone's just freaking out and it's just the flu but weaker and "wash your hands if that really makes you feel better." He was an EMS worker, and was bragging to the guy he was talking to about how Adderall lets him power through his 24 hour shifts. Definitely disturbing to have people with that "OMG nothing to worry about" attitude who touch the medical fields 

Meanwhile, the guy next to me just kept coughing directly into his hands (COUGH INTO YOUR ELBOW/ARMPIT YOU DAMN PIG SLOBS) then he handles the jury pay slips as they pass them down. Of course to peel his off, he licks his fingers. Passes them to me, then I pass them to the lady on my right. She then starts fiddling around picking her teeth. 

The combo of most people's complete slobbishness, the complete resistance to modify our current lifestyle even for a short period of time, plus the combo of willful and ignorant misinformation both from citizens and government is why we are much more likely to make this a significant event than some people think. 

People also suck at probability, and think you were stupid/wrong to prepare for an event that had a 25% chance of occurring if it doesn't actually occur.

[F250 28662]

 

[Tuco 5076]

The "don't panic" messaging on this is going to get people killed. 

Why should I have to miss the party?

[Mo Horn 8795]

19 minutes ago, TXSooner518 said:

Yeah I was at jury duty Monday and this guy behind me was talking loudly about how everyone's just freaking out and it's just the flu but weaker and "wash your hands if that really makes you feel better." He was an EMS worker, and was bragging to the guy he was talking to about how Adderall lets him power through his 24 hour shifts. Definitely disturbing to have people with that "OMG nothing to worry about" attitude who touch the medical fields 

Meanwhile, the guy next to me just kept coughing directly into his hands (COUGH INTO YOUR ELBOW/ARMPIT YOU DAMN PIG SLOBS) then he handles the jury pay slips as they pass them down. Of course to peel his off, he licks his fingers. Passes them to me, then I pass them to the lady on my right. She then starts fiddling around picking her teeth. 

The combo of most people's complete slobbishness, the complete resistance to modify our current lifestyle even for a short period of time, plus the combo of willful and ignorant misinformation both from citizens and government is why we are much more likely to make this a significant event than some people think. 

People also suck at probability, and think you were stupid/wrong to prepare for an event that had a 25% chance of occurring if it doesn't actually occur.

 It was nice knowing you. Do you have your will updated?

[Goredho 17307]

[TXSooner518 2432]

2 minutes ago, Tuco said:

The "don't panic" messaging on this is going to get people killed. 

Why should I have to miss the party?

And again, a hospital employee who should know better. Exactly what I was saying above. "BUT I WANT TO GO!!" trumps any health concerns, and is fed by the misinformation being spread. Can't wait to see how the sheeple would handle a widespread quarantine. 

1 minute ago, Mo Horn said:

 It was nice knowing you. Do you have your will updated?

Debts don't get inherited, so it will just kind of resolve itself. 

[4th&Five 41457]

8 minutes ago, F250 said:

 

Maybe that will convince these morons to do more testing. 

[Biff Tannen 45482]

30 minutes ago, TXSooner518 said:

Definitely disturbing to have people with that "OMG nothing to worry about" attitude who touch the medical fields 

I mean, they should have more experience and knowledge than the average person, no?

[Goredho 17307]

9 minutes ago, Tuco said:

The "don't panic" messaging on this is going to get people killed. 

Why should I have to miss the party?

He should get the Nork enforced isolation procedure.

[4th&Five 41457]

Just now, Biff Tannen said:

I mean, they should have more experience and knowledge than the average person, no?

I've been selling to nurses for almost 20 years.  Some are brilliant and some are bumbling fucking idiots.

[Goredho 17307]

And they all are wanton minxes in the sack, no?

[Bigpoppapump 529]

Wait, did Trump spray tan oil around a facemask? 

[TXSooner518 2432]

25 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I mean, they should have more experience and knowledge than the average person, no?

 

22 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

I've been selling to nurses for almost 20 years.  Some are brilliant and some are bumbling fucking idiots.

The second post is why it is so dangerous when the fools are fools, because people give them more credibility. I mean, the hospital employee was told you have coronavirus, you are quarantined, and they went to a goddamn social gathering. Nobody can defend that. But if that same person said "I work at the hospital and blah blah blah" some people would give them credibility despite the fact that they are an obvious imbecile.

The below clip sums it up better than I can on the selfish people who will ultimately make this worse.

 

Edited March 4, 2020 by TXSooner518

[BrickHorn 18177]

1 hour ago, Goredho said:

She's also a full blown Trumpkin who loves Hannity and Tucker.

I knew how your conversation would go based on that information alone.  Your friend is a proven idiot.  What did you expect?

[F250 28662]

13 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

I knew how your conversation would go based on that information alone.  Your friend is a proven idiot.  What did you expect?

Yep. The Trumpkins have been told there is nothing to see here so they see nothing.

[horn4life 3753]

There is still no need to panic.  Unfortunately the incompetence of the Trump Administration is going to prove to be a huge part of unnecessary spread.  Here's a good article from Forbes on the early stupidity on testing. Forbes - How the CDC botched it's initial coronavirus response with faulty tests

highlights- There was a test available provided by the World Health organization.  We said no thanks we will produce out own test! we have to wait for us to develop our own test, and when we do we shit the bed on accuracy, and a lot of the tests were faulty. More lost time. At the same time the Faulty test in short supply was the only test allowed to be used. Or alternatively samples sent to one of several approved CDC Labs, that made the a positive tests several days in the making.

The early fuck ups have been fixed. But you are going to fins a LOT more cases as we do more testing.  But most of the folks are not going to have even been very sick.

Interestingly you even have Greg Abbot complaining about the CDC releasing the virus into San Antonio from Quarantine. Politico - Texas Governor Slams CDC for releasing San Antonio coronavirus patient

Quote

The patient spent about 12 hours in public in the interim, visiting a local mall and hotel near the airport.

Quote

"It appears to be a case of negligence with regard to how this person, who had the coronavirus, could leave TCID and go back into the general population,” said Abbott at a Monday morning news conference related to economic development. “I think they understand the magnitude of the error they made.”

The Premiere of the new New James Bond Movie was scheduled to open next month, they just pushed it back to November.  There is going to be a TON of unnecessary panic and it's gong to fuck up the economy.  Will crush a lot of small mom and pop's who don't have the reserves to ride out a significant months long downturn in business. Trump and the GOP are gonna get toasted in November. Then the trend of a GOP President who inherited a good economy , handing the Dem a shitty one, will once again repeat itself.

Edited March 4, 2020 by horn4life

[tantric superman 4667]

1 hour ago, Goredho said:

I had a discussion on messenger yesterday with a HS friend who I know is a director of an elder care facility in the Austin area (I can't remember which one).  She's also a full blown Trumpkin who loves Hannity and Tucker.

Me:  Hey, got time to talk about the coronavirus?

Her:  Sure.

Me:  So what's your general take?

Her:  People are freaking out for no reason.  Flu is much worse and so much more deadly for the elderly.  They are talking about cancelling SXSW.  That's ridiculous.

Me:  You feel that way with what's gone on with the Washington elder-care facility?

She didn't respond, so after a few minutes I prodded again...

Me:  They have had 8 people die in under a week.  Its like 4% of the resident population, for around a 16% mortality rate among the infected.  Its still an active outbreak.  Are those numbers normal for a flu outbreak in an old folks home?

Her:  Well, it has to do with how well those patients are monitored.  They may have nurses who are less skilled or poorly trained and do not act to care for the residents in a way they should.  If flu came to our facility, it would be a disaster.  These people are old, frail and have no reserves to fight.

Me:  So you say that sounds high, but it may be because of the quality of care they are receiving at this facility in Washington?

Her:  We lysol everything often during flu season.  We clean and wipe every touchable surface as often as we can.  We also encourage staff to stay at home if they are ill.

Me:  Well, I'm mostly concerned about my mom.  She's in her 80s and in an independent living apartment building there in Austin (note: not this friend's facility)

Her:  She will be fine.  Tell her to wash her hands.  The independent living residents are less at risk.  You can always move her out temporarily if you need to.

Me:  Ok.  Thanks.

At this point, I feel kind of uncomfortable about the conversation, her attitude and position of responsibility.  So I do a little research and pick up the conversation again, hoping to get her to consider that maybe she needs to have a little more concern about what's going on.

Me:  Oh, found the data on the flu.  Looks like its mortality rate for people 65 and older is 0.83%.  Check this link -- https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2018-2019.html?fbclid=IwAR090tLD_ZYLG7kk95KgKAMJZSMbA3JRhsxABrRGV_0Tct0rfWsJJc_SbKI.  It eems like the 16% rate being seen in that Washington facility would indicate this could be much more dangerous for older people than the flu if it enters their environment.

Her:  I'll take a look later, but I have to work right now.  Your mom is fine, don't freak out.

Me:  Sorry, just trying to be informed.  When you have time to respond -- do you have the ability to test your residents for coronavirus and isolate them or your staff if someone tests positive?

I haven't received a response.  Its times like this where misinformation and elective reality are extremely dangerous.

I really hope you sang this dialogue with each other, a; la Chicago V.

 

[HenryJames 65869]

Is that a lot?

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13541]

Trump surprised, but never fear, he's looking at the problem.

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/surprised-trump-considers-next-steps-uninsured-coronavirus-spreads-n1149391

"Well, we're going to look at the uninsured because they have a big problem. And we're going to look at the uninsured people that -- you know, this came -- it was a surprise to all of us. It just happened. It shows what can happen in life. But we're going to be looking at the uninsured and see if we can help them out."

Edited March 4, 2020 by Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand

[4th&Five 41457]

So he’s for helping out uninsured people if they get Coronavirus but not cancer?

[Goredho 17307]

17 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

I knew how your conversation would go based on that information alone.  Your friend is a proven idiot.  What did you expect?

A reasonable response or to make her cognitive dissonance unbearable.  I'm naive, I know.

So if the coronavirus does not slam us hard, it will be due to some people ignoring the misinformation/directives coming from the top and acting on the assumption that this could be really, really bad.  We saw evidence of this early with the CDC preemptively undermining Trump's message to get the word out:  prepare thyself for a disruption of daily life.  That subversive act has spurred the "panic" as some would describe it.  But that panic is what I would call "preparation".  It just appears chaotic because all of the entities that comprise our society (government agencies, businesses, individuals) are having to attempt to prepare for the arrival of a global pandemic in a vacuum of governmental leadership.

Trump will take credit for any and all success after the fact, even as he and the conservative machine have worked to undermine the seriousness of the threat in the moment.  Those public health officials, scientists and medical professionals who resisted that message to get us as prepared as we can be will never be fully appreciated.  They will not get the adulation and statements of appreciation for their service that a guy walking in an airport in a military uniform will get, but they deserve them.

[Chooky 13292]

10 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

So he’s for helping out uninsured people if they get Coronavirus but not cancer?

He's just saying he's gonna look at uninsured people.  He'll look at them and then turn away, because ... you know ... gross.

[4th&Five 41457]

 

[Dnaguy 11741]

8 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

 

What is the GDP impact of something like this in the US?

Lets say that a major city in the US [coughs] Seattle [coughs] closes all its schools.

How to people take care of their kids? Take off work right? So now l, half to 1/3 of folks are off work. Hourly ppl don’t get paid. Bills don’t get paid. Work doesn’t get done.

I mean, I know we lost like 10% of the market on fear, but dang If this shit actually goes down then the economic impact is pretty damn significant.

[Homercles 10205]

22 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

and originated in China. 

“Shiiiinaah”

[Goredho 17307]

29 minutes ago, Chooky said:

He's just saying he's gonna look at uninsured people.  He'll look at them and then turn away, because ... you know ... gross.

What shit hole country are these people from?

The United States, mr President.

[TXSooner518 2432]

10 minutes ago, Dnaguy said:

What is the GDP impact of something like this in the US?

Lets say that a major city in the US [coughs] Seattle [coughs] closes all its schools.

How to people take care of their kids? Take off work right? So now l, half to 1/3 of folks are off work. Hourly ppl don’t get paid. Bills don’t get paid. Work doesn’t get done.

I mean, I know we lost like 10% of the market on fear, but dang If this shit actually goes down then the economic impact is pretty damn significant.

Exactly. This is what the BUH WHUH HOW MANY PEOPLE DIE FROM FLU THIS IS HYPE crowd isn't getting. Basically no one is saying wow we are all going to die from the disease, we are saying it has the real potential to be highly disruptive to the health care system and the economy. 

[Tuco 5076]

6 minutes ago, TXSooner518 said:

Exactly. This is what the BUH WHUH HOW MANY PEOPLE DIE FROM FLU THIS IS HYPE crowd isn't getting. Basically no one is saying wow we are all going to die from the disease, we are saying it has the real potential to be highly disruptive to the health care system and the economy. 

Well, and a lot of people could still die from it.  1-2% of the population is a shit load of people.  There is this assumption it will just be people who were already nearing the end of their life, and this would just be the final straw.  That's not 1-2% of the population. I was talking to a client, and during the meeting I remembered that he has a daughter who has cystic fibrosis.  I was just sitting there thinking what kind of precautions he has to be taking.  There are a lot people, who are hoping to enjoy a long, productive life in society who are now very much at risk. 

56 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

So he’s for helping out uninsured people if they get Coronavirus but not cancer?

I'm all for universal healthcare, but I will say this is different.  

Society, as a whole, should be willing to bear the costs with people who are being tested and isolated.  Because, for most of them, it's not going to be worse than a cold.  For their own, personal, self-interested decision making process, they don't really need the test and isolate.  But society needs them to be tested and isolated, because it is an attempt to protect society.  This isn't about your health; it's about the health of 1000s of other whose infection chain might roll through you, many of whom will die. 

[TXSooner518 2432]

3 minutes ago, Tuco said:

Well, and a lot of people could still die from it.  1-2% of the population is a shit load of people.  There is this assumption it will just be people who were already nearing the end of their life, and this would just be the final straw.  That's not 1-2% of the population. I was talking to a client, and during the meeting I remembered that he has a daughter who has cystic fibrosis.  I was just sitting there thinking what kind of precautions he has to be taking.  There are a lot people, who are hoping to enjoy a long, productive life in society who are now very much at risk. 

I absolutely agree with this also of course.

[InkaUtexas 25441]

7 minutes ago, Tuco said:

Society, as a whole, should be willing to bear the costs with people who are being tested and isolated.  Because, for most of them, it's not going to be worse than a cold.  For their own, personal, self-interested decision making process, they don't really need the test and isolate.  But society needs them to be tested and isolated, because it is an attempt to protect society.  This isn't about your health; it's about the health of 1000s of other whose infection chain might roll through you, many of whom will die. 

Feel the same way about healthy lunch programs in our schools. Pay now or pay a lot more later. 

[tx 3 putt 76171]

2 hours ago, F250 said:

 

 

USA ! USA ! USA ! USA !

[Brisketexan 104469]

36 minutes ago, Dnaguy said:

What is the GDP impact of something like this in the US?

Lets say that a major city in the US [coughs] Seattle [coughs] closes all its schools.

How to people take care of their kids? Take off work right? So now l, half to 1/3 of folks are off work. Hourly ppl don’t get paid. Bills don’t get paid. Work doesn’t get done.

I mean, I know we lost like 10% of the market on fear, but dang If this shit actually goes down then the economic impact is pretty damn significant.

24 minutes ago, TXSooner518 said:

Exactly. This is what the BUH WHUH HOW MANY PEOPLE DIE FROM FLU THIS IS HYPE crowd isn't getting. Basically no one is saying wow we are all going to die from the disease, we are saying it has the real potential to be highly disruptive to the health care system and the economy. 

Yep, this.

8 minutes ago, Tuco said:

Well, and a lot of people could still die from it.  1-2% of the population is a shit load of people.  There is this assumption it will just be people who were already nearing the end of their life, and this would just be the final straw.  That's not 1-2% of the population. I was talking to a client, and during the meeting I remembered that he has a daughter who has cystic fibrosis.  I was just sitting there thinking what kind of precautions he has to be taking.  There are a lot people, who are hoping to enjoy a long, productive life in society who are now very much at risk. 

I'm all for universal healthcare, but I will say this is different.  

Society, as a whole, should be willing to bear the costs with people who are being tested and isolated.  Because, for most of them, it's not going to be worse than a cold.  For their own, personal, self-interested decision making process, they don't really need the test and isolate.  But society needs them to be tested and isolated, because it is an attempt to protect society.  This isn't about your health; it's about the health of 1000s of other whose infection chain might roll through you, many of whom will die. 

That's why public health is just that -- PUBLIC health.  The greatest line of bullshit the "right" has sold in this country is some "lone man against the wilderness" bullshit -- worship of the individual to the complete and total exclusion of the community and the commonwealth.  Public schools matter because by educating other people, we greatly improve our society and its economic performance, and also protect society against the perils of creating a massive uneducated criminal class.  Public health matters because a deadly communicable disease fucking has the root of "community" right there in its goddamned name.  We live in a herd -- what happens to the herd happens to us all.  I can be Mr. Super-Duper Triumph of the Individual, and I can be felled by a communicable disease because I caught it from some poor schlub at the store who has no healthcare and no choice but to work and go about his life even when sick.  Meaning that I'm not some super individual at all -- I'm just another member of this society.

For fuck's sake, this concept was in the founders' minds at the literal birth of our country:

Quote

We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately.

We're all going to stand alone, and fuck the common good.   Meaning a shitload of us are going to die alone.

[Goredho 17307]

The best mortality.

[lemonlime 5503]

Maybe that will convince these morons to do more testing. 

Yeah. This is probably due to not testing people. The only cases we know of are the bad ones.

I just want a press conference where we aren't lied to about what's going on. I take mass transit every day. Have 2 business trips next week. Was at a concert last week. And found out today in the news there's someone at a nearby hospital in the ICU with community acquired Corona. And we have no real info about incubation periods or how prevalent it is in the local area.

I have no idea if I should be avoiding visiting my elderly mother, working from home, etc.

[Pasken 1309]

 

[mdmost 42781]

BUT OBAMA! Ha. Economy is all Trump. Disease preparation and prevention- Obama. And again, I go back to Ebola not spreading in the US under Obama because it was taken seriously from patient zero onward. 

Edited March 4, 2020 by mdmost

[lemonlime 5503]

 

Who cares what he's talking about? It's clearly a lie. And to the extent someone could fabricate some correlation as they always seem to do to make Trump's lies and word salad comprehensible, Trump who knows more about everything than every expert had 3 years to fix this imaginary terrible thing Obama did

[Guest Lobo]

Is this the modelonegrovirus from 2013?  Because I think I had that.