CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk

[pyrohornIII 4812]

43 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

 

Yep, Trump's wet dream.    I mean seriously, why would any country do this?  Unless corrupt to the core.  So what happens if Orban starts spreading falsehoods and rumors like Trump does?   Who's there to imprison him?

Edited March 30, 2020 by pyrohornIII

[Bateshorn 9908]

As somebody who is allergic to Penicillian,  I’m super excited about the broad abuse of my front line antibiotic with minimal data to support its use 

[BrickHorn 18199]

4 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

The worst thing about today’s society is that everyone seems to have completely rejected nuance.  I wasn’t advocating immediately eliminating distancing or instantly prescribing it across the board.  I was just pointing out what looks like a positive development.

Right.  But recognize that what you did was to post pretty bold claims without evidence — claims many of us have evaluated previously and found lacking based on evidence available to date.  

Society today is rightly sensitive to propaganda and understands that broadcasting inaccurate factual claims is a key part of propaganda efforts.  The best propaganda efforts separate their factual campaigns from the policy advocacy.  Combining the two makes the duplicity too overt.  It’s more effective to inundate the population with incorrect factual information that supports your policy preferences first, preferably through voices that appear to be independent third parties.  Then, only after those you seek to persuade have absorbed and accepted your false facts as true, you propose the chosen policy as a reaction to those false facts.  

Not saying you are part of such a propaganda effort here.  Just that many of us are skeptical of the anecdotal and flawed early evidence for this drug cocktail.  Trump himself blasted out bullshit about its effectiveness and has openly stated a desire to get Americans back to normal life much more quickly than most experts believe is safe.  It’s perfectly reasonable to suspect this administration and its enablers of pushing bad information about chloroquine now with the intent to use the hope such information creates to build public support for a premature end to social distancing efforts. 

[pyrohornIII 4812]

2 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

Right.  But recognize that what you did was to post pretty bold claims without evidence — claims many of us have evaluated previously and found lacking based on evidence available to date.  

Society today is rightly sensitive to propaganda and understands that broadcasting inaccurate factual claims is a key part of propaganda efforts.  The best propaganda efforts separate their factual campaigns from the policy advocacy.  Combining the two makes the duplicity too overt.  It’s more effective to inundate the population with incorrect factual information that supports your policy preferences first, preferably through voices that appear to be independent third parties.  Then, only after those you seek to persuade have absorbed and accepted your false facts as true, you propose the chosen policy as a reaction to those false facts.  

Not saying you are part of such a propaganda effort here.  Just that many of us are skeptical of the anecdotal and flawed early evidence for this drug cocktail.  Trump himself blasted out bullshit about its effectiveness and has openly stated a desire to get Americans back to normal life much more quickly than most experts believe is safe.  It’s perfectly reasonable to suspect this administration and its enablers of pushing bad information about chloroquine now with the intent to use the hope such information creates to build public support for a premature end to social distancing efforts. 

Excellent response Brick. 

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

2 hours ago, Pam Cummings said:

https://www.businessinsider.com/fox-news-is-downplaying-the-coronavirus-to-more-vulnerable-audience-2020-2

 

From feb 28th

i don't need to connect the dots here, but it's pretty much the only silver lining i see in all of this.

[Gatorubet 30139]

If we can cure this deal 90% of the time within 5 days, this becomes no biggie real quick and everything is completely back to normal

So.....15 million people (assuming 10% of 300 million peeps/50% exposure) sick and not cured is a back to normal?

And this assumes access to medical care due to distancing curve suppression.

[triplehorn 2664]

cross-posting this tweet (read the inset images of the report from the NY doc):

Quote

 

Where this is headed: treating with HCHQ/Azith as early as possible MIGHT offer definitive advantages to limit complications and death from covid.

The dilemma is that 1) still need blinded controlled studies to confirm 2) Our national per capita testing capacity and results turnaround time (avg. 4-7 days) is horrible and nullifies any advantage the meds may have if you rely on getting a test and waiting for a positive result.

What does the NY docs report suggest?  Consideration should be made by medical authority to offer treatment of presumptive covid infection in patients presenting with influenza-like symptoms and shortness of breath at any age, or patients with any ILI symptoms and co-morbid risk factors without waiting for a positive covid test result. 

[WhatTheBuck 28721]

38 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

The worst thing about today’s society is that everyone seems to have completely rejected nuance.  I wasn’t advocating immediately eliminating distancing or instantly prescribing it across the board.  I was just pointing out what looks like a positive development.

I'm going to tell all my friends. "Snake Diggity on Surly said so. It must be true!"

[henrygandorf 29182]

49 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

I haven’t seen where the hydroxychloroquine and zpack combo cures it 90% of the time

i have a contact at a local news station here in southern california, and according to him, 90% of the time, it works every time.

[cactusflinthead 27595]

Some news on Prine

 

[cactusflinthead 27595]

 

[DixonHur 11238]

22 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

cross-posting this tweet (read the inset images of the report from the NY doc):

Where this is headed: treating with HCHQ/Azith as early as possible MIGHT offer definitive advantages to limit complications and death from covid.

The dilemma is that 1) still need blinded controlled studies to confirm 2) Our national per capita testing capacity and results turnaround time (avg. 4-7 days) is horrible and nullifies any advantage the meds may have if you rely on getting a test and waiting for a positive result.

What does the NY docs report suggest?  Consideration should be made by medical authority to offer treatment of presumptive covid infection in patients presenting with influenza-like symptoms and shortness of breath at any age, or patients with any ILI symptoms and co-morbid risk factors without waiting for a positive covid test result. 

L'Chaim

[UDontKnow 10439]

3 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

 

Fight fire with fire?

[4th&Five 41462]

 

[cactusflinthead 27595]

Some companies are building their brand and others are wrecking it.

[horn4life 3758]

2 hours ago, Tuco said:

And that's not even the testing we are talking about right now.  

There is testing to confirm the presence of the virus. That determines who are currently infected with the virus.  It does not confirm who has been infected and built an immunity.  It's still probably the higher priority, as we need to understand the size of the problem, try to isolate workers in "essential" services from infecting other essential workers, and to get treatment (assuming it was available) to patients as early as practical. 

And then there is the testing to search for antibodies that our system created to fight the virus.  As noted, this is critical for finding those with some level of immunity to work in essential work.  But, in the US, it's not even on the radar yet.  It should also be noted that while there are indications that folks who have recovered are immune from developing the disease or even being a carrier, they are not conclusive yet.  It's possible that acquired immunity may be short term, which would be fucking terrible.  

I know - I'm ahead of the curve.  Think of me as a predictor of the conclusions and actions taken by the Trump administration 14-30 days in advance.  Since we skipped isolation due to lack of testing due to lack of testing, and were forced to mitigation (sorta eg:Florida), we might as well jump forward to past determining who has the virus at the hospital, to who has already has the virus.

The simple fact is we are never ever, ever going to catch up on testing determining if you are sick at this point in time.  IT NOT GOING TO HAPPEN EVER for the US population.  So shift to antibody testing!  Mainly because by skipping another testing step having already skipped the first two, is not going to create a horrific downside.  The virus is going everywhere, and we MIGHT be able actually provide enough antibody testing to for the very, very first time not behind the curve.

It's going to take a big pile of bodies, which has already been predetermined (lack of testing anyone?) so let's start marshaling our focus forward to antibodies, and plasma harvesting. We might have a weapon to use multiple ways if we could find immune people (assuming immunity as I always have). Workers for factories to produce respirators. Volunteers to take virus tests on the sick ,and on and on.

 

 

Edited March 30, 2020 by horn4life

[Snake Diggity 4614]

1 hour ago, BrickHorn said:

Right.  But recognize that what you did was to post pretty bold claims without evidence — claims many of us have evaluated previously and found lacking based on evidence available to date.  

Society today is rightly sensitive to propaganda and understands that broadcasting inaccurate factual claims is a key part of propaganda efforts.  The best propaganda efforts separate their factual campaigns from the policy advocacy.  Combining the two makes the duplicity too overt.  It’s more effective to inundate the population with incorrect factual information that supports your policy preferences first, preferably through voices that appear to be independent third parties.  Then, only after those you seek to persuade have absorbed and accepted your false facts as true, you propose the chosen policy as a reaction to those false facts.  

Not saying you are part of such a propaganda effort here.  Just that many of us are skeptical of the anecdotal and flawed early evidence for this drug cocktail.  Trump himself blasted out bullshit about its effectiveness and has openly stated a desire to get Americans back to normal life much more quickly than most experts believe is safe.  It’s perfectly reasonable to suspect this administration and its enablers of pushing bad information about chloroquine now with the intent to use the hope such information creates to build public support for a premature end to social distancing efforts. 

*James Carville from Old School* This was perfect...I have no response. 

[Bama Chick 28596]

Passing along promising research is fine.

Optimism is fine.

Nuance is fine.

What is getting you slammed is passing off declarative and definitive statements like this

The malaria drug / Zpac combo appears to work, tons of evidence that 90% of the time it cures this shit within 5 days.

“Appears to work”

“Tons of evidence”

“90% of the time”

“Cures within 5 days”

What you posted is straight up pie in the sky nonsense.

You might as well be hawking Alex Jones’s Covid toothpaste.

The study of the chloroquine/azithromycin combo looks promising in this early stage with limited controlled testing.

That’s great!

But “tons of evidence”, “90%” “cure within 5 days” is dangerous misinformation.

[Chooky 13303]

Don't eat the chloroquine tablets that are used to control algae in coy ponds. Instead, go beat up an elderly Korean couple and verbally abuse a Japanese child like a responsible American. 

[Pancho 44535]

Republicans are just some a.) shitty people and b.) fucked up people.

 

[washparkhorn 9935]

Way too early, but beware of championing Cuomo in this crisis. There is a hospital shortage in New York and Cuomo played a role in that shortage. Second, NY is further progressed that many states, but woefully unprepared compared to other states, including California. Third, he uses a lot of the same rhetoric, e.g., "I did that . . .," as Trumpy. I hope he solves the problem of New York State, but he is not the cure for what ails the nation. 

As for the worst governor - is there any need to look past Florida's political response to COVID-19? The Spring Break super-spreaders alone are a disgrace. 

[DigglerontheHoof 21082]

Is Mississippi's governor still overriding local SIP ordinances?  That seems pretty shitty. 

[GRHorn 105]

 

[Anastasis 23403]

1 hour ago, triplehorn said:

cross-posting this tweet (read the inset images of the report from the NY doc):

Where this is headed: treating with HCHQ/Azith as early as possible MIGHT offer definitive advantages to limit complications and death from covid.

The dilemma is that 1) still need blinded controlled studies to confirm 2) Our national per capita testing capacity and results turnaround time (avg. 4-7 days) is horrible and nullifies any advantage the meds may have if you rely on getting a test and waiting for a positive result.

What does the NY docs report suggest?  Consideration should be made by medical authority to offer treatment of presumptive covid infection in patients presenting with influenza-like symptoms and shortness of breath at any age, or patients with any ILI symptoms and co-morbid risk factors without waiting for a positive covid test result. 

Anyone else google searched ole Zev yet?

[DanTheHorn 4902]

6 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

Way too early, but beware of championing Cuomo in this crisis. There is a hospital shortage in New York and Cuomo played a role in that shortage. Second, NY is further progressed that many states, but woefully unprepared compared to other states, including California. Third, he uses a lot of the same rhetoric, e.g., "I did that . . .," as Trumpy. I hope he solves the problem of New York State, but he is not the cure for what ails the nation. 

As for the worst governor - is there any need to look past Florida's political response to COVID-19? The Spring Break super-spreaders alone are a disgrace. 

As far as crises handling goes (i.e. having plan to keep us safe at home or recovery from the financial crisis):

Bush or Obama >>>>>>> Cuomo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump

 

P.S. Bush wars aside he did put a structure into place in which agencies shared information and kept us from experiencing other major terrorist attacks. The recover lasted what 10 years?

[Longhorn_Fan68 33852]

Very interesting link. You can drill down to individual counties. This site uses cell phone location data to see who is staying put and who is still moving around. Travis County got an 'A' rating and is in the top 5 counties in Texas:

https://www.unacast.com/covid19/social-distancing-scoreboard

Edited March 30, 2020 by Longhorn_Fan68

[LABEVO 928]

13 hours ago, LABEVO said:

SF was aggressive with shelter in place and many tech companies had wfh prior to that being implementing.  

SF has been the most proactive about preventing the spread of covid. 

 

[Gap03 3288]

9 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Anyone else google searched ole Zev yet?

I did - not much out there.  When the main video touting his successes is a Q&A session with Rudy Giuliani, you end up fighting an uphill battle on credibility.  Probably would have been more salable if they had gotten Igor Fruman to handle it.

[GRHorn 105]

 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33852]

fuck Charlie Kirk. I loved him in the movie "Mask", though

[UDontKnow 10439]

5 hours ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

Looks like Harris County cases doubled over the weekend - it has now overtaken Dallas county for most cases (445) in the state.

Waited too long for the stay at home order. Thanks City of Houston! And still not sure what Abbott is waiting for. Make it statewide dammit.

[Anastasis 23403]

1 minute ago, Gap03 said:

I did - not much out there.  When the main video touting his successes is a Q&A session with Rudy Giuliani, you end up fighting an uphill battle on credibility.  Probably would have been more salable if they had gotten Igor Fruman to handle it.

Yeah, that's what jumped out at me as well. Also the Chief of Staff.  Ole Zev appears to be where Trump is deriving his optimism.  Which is fine. We should all be optimist and hopeful, imo.  There is definitely a signal. But maybe let the science play out before we start tweeting about and marketing it from the podium. 

[DanTheHorn 4902]

Just now, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

fuck Charlie Kirk. I loved him in the movie "Mask", though

Agree hospital scenes mean nothing when their is a death counter on the web that everyone has access too. When it reaches 60K by some projects in mid April all these fucks are going turn into peppers themselves.

[Bateshorn 9908]

Maryland going to shelter in place.  Making last provision run now.

[UDontKnow 10439]

3 hours ago, Pancho said:

 

If any one of those three die, especially the two children, I want to see death penalty (and it is quite possible because it occurred in Midland). Hysteria is no excuse for trying to end a life, especially that of a child. Whoever that suspect is a sick and twisted individual deserves the same degree of mercy that was showed to the victims.

[UTHornFan014 710]

If any one of those three die, especially the two children, I want to see death penalty (and it is quite possible because it occurred in Midland). Hysteria is no excuse for trying to end a life, especially that of a child. Whoever that suspect is a sick and twisted individual deserves the same degree of mercy that was showed to the victims.

He should face the firing squad now even if they all survive

[WhatTheBuck 28721]

24 minutes ago, DanTheHorn said:

As far as crises handling goes (i.e. having plan to keep us safe at home or recovery from the financial crisis):

Bush or Obama >>>>>>> Cuomo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump

P.S. Bush wars aside he did put a structure into place in which agencies shared information and kept us from experiencing other major terrorist attacks. The recover lasted what 10 years?

Good lord. "Bush wars aside?" Bush was a lot closer to Trump than he was to Obama. He was a disaster. He didn't protect us from another major terrorist attack. None were attempted. 9/11 took years of planning and coordination and funding. They didn't have to attempt another one because 9/11 gave them such a great return on their investment.  

Clinton warned Bush that Islamic terrorism was the greatest threat to this country. Bush ignored him. Richard Clarke, the "Terrorism Czar," warned him. His office was defunded and defanged. The intelligence agencies warned that there were blinking red lights indicating something big was coming. Bush was more concerned with tax cuts. He received a PDB titled "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S." What did Bush do? Not a goddamned thing. Just like Trump with the Pamdemic, Bush ignored the warning signs and got caught with his pants down. 

Edited March 30, 2020 by WhatTheBuck

[RomaVicta 29813]

13 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

Nah, bitches get shit done.

He’s the infected yellow/orange discharge leaking from a diseased cock.

Aptly described.

I feel odd clicking "like" to infected yellow/orange discharge leaking from a diseased cock. I guess now I know how a Trumpist feels watching FOX.

[InkaUtexas 25542]

9 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

Maryland going to shelter in place.  Making last provision run now.

 

[Biff Tannen 45512]

10 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

Maryland going to shelter in place.  Making last provision run now.

You can still go to the grocery store, no?

[UDontKnow 10439]

2 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Good lord. "Bush wars aside?" Bush was a lot closer to Trump than he was to Obama. He was a disaster. He didn't protect us from a major terrorist attack. None were attempted. 9/11 took years of planning and coordination and funding. They didn't have to attempt another one because 9/11 gave them such a great return on their investment.  

Clinton warned Bush that Islamic terrorism was the greatest threat to this country. Bush ignored him. Richard Clarke, the "Terrorism Czar," warned him. His office was defunded and defanged. The intelligence agencies warned that there were blinking red lights indicating something big was coming. Bush was more concerned with tax cuts. He received a PDB titled "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S." What did Bush do? Not a goddamned thing. Just like Trump with the Pamdemic, Bush ignored the warning signs and got caught with his pants down. 

I agree with this view, but am even more cynical. 9/11 became the excuse to go Iraq which had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11 and Halliburton (Dick Cheney) profited the most from it. In fact, bin Laden had a two week head start after 9/11 before troops entered Afghanistan. And they found bin Laden in Pakistan. The same Pakistan that has received American financial and military aid since at least the time of Nixon and Kissinger even though they have been supporting terrorism for at least the last 40 years. Bush and the entire Neoconservative ilk were awful for all non-elite Americans aka the 99%.

[BrickHorn 18199]

7 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Good lord. "Bush wars aside?" Bush was a lot closer to Trump than he was to Obama. He was a disaster. He didn't protect us from another major terrorist attack. None were attempted. 9/11 took years of planning and coordination and funding. They didn't have to attempt another one because 9/11 gave them such a great return on their investment.  

Clinton warned Bush that Islamic terrorism was the greatest threat to this country. Bush ignored him. Richard Clarke, the "Terrorism Czar," warned him. His office was defunded and defanged. The intelligence agencies warned that there were blinking red lights indicating something big was coming. Bush was more concerned with tax cuts. He received a PDB titled "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S." What did Bush do? Not a goddamned thing. Just like Trump with the Pamdemic, Bush ignored the warning signs and got caught with his pants down. 

I’m sensing a pattern.  What’s that saying?  Something like “Republicans are the party that proclaims government is useless, and then gets elected and proves they were right.”

[Bullneck 19027]

31 minutes ago, DanTheHorn said:

As far as crises handling goes (i.e. having plan to keep us safe at home or recovery from the financial crisis):

Bush or Obama >>>>>>> Cuomo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump

 

P.S. Bush wars aside he did put a structure into place in which agencies shared information and kept us from experiencing other major terrorist attacks. The recover lasted what 10 years?

President/President >>>>> Governor >>>>>> President

Interesting sample there.

[The Royal We 3066]

31 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

Very interesting link. You can drill down to individual counties. This site uses cell phone location data to see who is staying put and who is still moving around. Travis County got an 'A' rating and is in the top 5 counties in Texas:

https://www.unacast.com/covid19/social-distancing-scoreboard

Sweet, my county - Nacogdoches, gets a F with an 8% reduction in travel.  Not too much of a surprise from the people that keep reelecting a human dumpster fire as our US Rep. 

[TXSG8R 3360]

1 minute ago, The Royal We said:

Sweet, my county - Nacogdoches, gets a F with an 8% reduction in travel.  Not too much of a surprise from the people that keep reelecting a human dumpster fire as our US Rep. 

Bell isnt much better, 18% with a 130k population.  Going to be swell here in a couple of weeks.  

[The Royal We 3066]

That was my first thought as well (what this could mean for our future) - the Nac hospital system serves quite a few smaller communities in the area.  If CV19 really gets loose around here the system will be overwhelmed and it's not going to be pretty.

[Pancho 44535]

 

[WhatTheBuck 28721]

7 minutes ago, UDontKnow said:

I agree with this view, but am even more cynical. 9/11 became the excuse to go Iraq which had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11 and Halliburton (Dick Cheney) profited the most from it. In fact, bin Laden had a two week head start after 9/11 before troops entered Afghanistan. And they found bin Laden in Pakistan. The same Pakistan that has received American financial and military aid since at least the time of Nixon and Kissinger even though they have been supporting terrorism for at least the last 40 years. Bush and the entire Neoconservative ilk were awful for all non-elite Americans aka the 99%.

They were always going to invade Iraq. 9/11 just gave them a convenient excuse. I knew they were going to use it to justify war in Iraq as I watched the towers fall. I didn't even know about the PNAC at that time nor that war with Iraq was discussed at Bush's first cabinet meeting months before 9/11. 

Bush found bin Laden at Tora Bora in Afghanistan but let him go. Then he stopped looking for him. Stopped even thinking about him according to Dubya. 

[WhatTheBuck 28721]

16 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

I’m sensing a pattern.  What’s that saying?  Something like “Republicans are the party that proclaims government is useless, and then gets elected and proves they were right.”

Yep. And the party that's anti-regulation and hands off when it comes to the market failed to see the housing crisis coming. Caught unawares again. 

[triplehorn 2664]

43 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Anyone else google searched ole Zev yet?

Yeah.  He's an actively licensed MD in NY w board cert.

Some stories popping up now

This doc is getting some socmed attention, but docs have been applying the SK/China protocols off label for weeks.  It appears this Hasidic doc just happens to have a robust primary care practice in a major covid hotspot.  So he's getting the actual volume of clinical cases in real time to make initial observations.