CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk

[Brandywine 1312]

41 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

The news this week has been gut wrenching. High crimes and grift, death and sorrow, lies, lies and more lies. More of the folks tired of staying home and pushing for restrictions to be lifted despite what the health officials have stated.

So, I wandered over to a Twitter account I occasionally follow and found this piece about Ivanka and the economy. For back story, this Dr. Brown is a physician who bills himself as a body language and emotional intelligence expert. Yeah, I know, seems like squishy science, but it's often entertaining. For reference, the abbreviation to which he refers is autonomous sensory meridian response and is a tingling sensation/low grade euphoria that starts in the brain but is often felt elsewhere (yeah, cue the jokes). Dr. Brown believes that Ivanka is working on this technique for manipulative purposes. Of all the Trump kids, she's probably better able to pull it off if that is the case.

Anyway, for your COVID entertainment.

 

 

I’m just so upset Ivanka’s upset. Bless her very, very, very tiny cold heart. 

[Anastasis 23390]

22 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

Bro, do you even leverage existing efficiencies?

Once we overcome this headwind, we can pivot and lean in to the next phase of synergizing capabilities. 

[DDD Dad 14243]

1 hour ago, Dahobbs said:

I'd like an integrated solution that utilizes synergies to create a value driven approach . . . . something something block chain.  

Paradigm shift.

[gmr548 16481]

Yeah, this doesn't logically flow at all.

An example specific to this discussion, look at the CDC botching of the test development. If our reliance on that work was decentralized and the FDA bureaucratic red tape did not prevent other labs from moving forward with test development, we would have multiple regional state health department and private labs working in parallel.  They don't all have to succeed.  Only one of them has to be better, faster, and more accurate than the centralized lab at the CDC. Which is actually what played out multiple times in Washington and California for example. And within a federal framework they share that success rather than bog down with FDA red tape. Some of you are fixed between two polars ends, centralization in DC or complete independence. That really wasn't what I was suggesting.

 

You said your answer wasn't centralization but to have states take the lead. You didn't really go beyond that. I don't know how else you'd expect people to respond.

 

This issue isn't limited to testing. I don't necessarialy disagree with your point about testing development, though we obviously disagree on how much blame lies with the individuals running the show as opposed to the inherent structure of the government. As you noted, your prescription for testing has come to pass to an extent, and what you end up with is a big gap in capacity and ctiteria for testing.

 

Your scenario already largely exists in regards to other aspects of the response - distancing measures, resource allocation, etc. What you end up with is what we have now: testing deployment and criteria varying, competition for resources like PPE, wildly different implementation of social restrictions, and what we'll ultimately see, big disparities in mortality. You can't get a handle on the spread with 50 sets of policy responses, and certainly not without federal air travel restrictions thrown into the mix. That's why we're going to be playing whack a mole for the next two years or so.

 

 

 

 

 

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

@DDD Dad

That sounds like math. Is there  math involved? I like the idea of math I'm just not sure I want to do any right now.

Edited April 9, 2020 by Mrs Whiggins
left out quote

[Pancho 44436]

Siap

 

[4th&Five 41457]

Ratings. 

 

[Bullneck 18983]

1 hour ago, hayden_horn said:

by the way, i'm not sure if anyone posted the tiger king exchange from yesterday's rally. here it is for those interested in the small details of the fall of our republic:

 

Now, THAT'S a punchable face.

[Brisketexan 104537]

1 hour ago, washparkhorn said:

Is anyone see a surge in "contact tracing" job openings? (There will be a huge need for contact tracing if we hope to open up the economy and prevent/weaken a second or third wave.) 

How confident are we in our antibody tests?

How certain are we that people cannot get sick again from COVID-19?

For this week and next (as we crest this first wave), are we prepared for the second and third wave?

I'm always prepared for the new wave....

28 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

Art Laffer - ffs 

Exactly the WRONG person for that job. 

Well, he's not the wrong person if you want to make sure that any and all benefit goes to the wealthiest and stays there. Sounds perfect to the .1%.

[Biff Tannen 45491]

5 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

Ratings. 

 

WSJ is fake news now?  Lol, by September, anything not OAN or Breitbart is going to be fake news.  

[DigglerontheHoof 21044]

You know how he could get the bestest ratings evar?  Off himself on live TV.  I'd be willing to rank him the All-time Ratings Champ of All-time.

[David Dennison 18646]

9 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

You know how he could get the bestest ratings evar?  Off himself on live TV.  I'd be willing to rank him the All-time Ratings Champ of All-time.

I like the idea of paying him $10 billion to resign.

That seems like a bargain.

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20342]

16 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

You know how he could get the bestest ratings evar?  Off himself on live TV.  I'd be willing to rank him the All-time Ratings Champ of All-time.

I'd give it to him if he just started coughing up "pink, frothy stuff". 

Edited April 9, 2020 by Horn Under a Bad Sign

[Anastasis 23390]

5 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

You said your answer wasn't centralization but to have states take the lead. You didn't really go beyond that. I don't know how else you'd expect people to respond.

This issue isn't limited to testing.

I agree the issue is not limited to testing.  But that was the specific context of the exchange that initiated this tangent.

CaptainAnt was talking about testing as the biggest bottleneck, and that the feds were the only ones equipped to solve the problem. I suggested that bureaucratic centralization at CDC and FDA was a big part of the problem, and the reality clearly bears that out. They literally shut down decentralized efforts to develop testing capacity. Which has nothing to do with Gov. Jethro Dumbfuck in Twatwaddle, MS or whatever.

If you want to talk about distancing guidelines, travel restrictions, resource allocation, etc. there are obviously different dynamics in play for each. 

 

3 hours ago, Captainant said:

It's a fucking failure that they have not built the testing capacity, or bought/licensed it from another country, like South Korea or Germany that has its shit together. 

The lack of testing capacity is the biggest bottleneck, and that's something that really only the feds are equipped to solve on a national level.

 

3 hours ago, Anastasis said:

The testing strategy and roll out has been fucked.

Maybe the answer is not greater centralization of resources and decision making in Washington.  SK has an extremely homogeneous and dense population of 50+MM covering an area roughly the same triangulated by SA, Dallas, and Houston. Likewise you can fit two of Germanys inside Texas, and their population is much more dense. 

Maybe the answer is a distributed network of strong state departments of health equipped with both the appropriate staffing and resources necessary to formulate and implement a response that makes sense on a regional basis. 

Leading, coordination, communication and broad strategy is of course important, and the federal government should play a role in that. 

Over-reliance on a centralized federal response however, at both the CDC and the FDA, is a good measure of the reason why our testing has been fucked.  If we want to have the agility to respond like SK or Germany perhaps decentralization is the answer. 

 

[DixonHur 11154]

34 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

Ratings. 

 

Someone should suggest Trump purposefully get infected with COVID-19, so they could do a reality show around it. 

The ratings would be yuge!

[Captainant 27403]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

I agree the issue is not limited to testing.  But that was the specific context of the exchange that initiated this tangent.

CaptainAnt was talking about testing as the biggest bottleneck, and that the feds were the only ones equipped to solve the problem. I suggested that bureaucratic centralization at CDC and FDA was a big part of the problem, and the reality clearly bears that out. They literally shut down decentralized efforts to develop testing capacity. Which has nothing to do with Gov. Jethro Dumbfuck in Twatwaddle, MS or whatever.

If you want to talk about distancing guidelines, travel restrictions, resource allocation, etc. there are obviously different dynamics in play for each. 

I guess my wires are a little crossed here, I had the understanding that FDA and CDC dragged their feet on doing anything, and put roadblocks in place because that was the directive from the chief executive. It sounds like you're arguing that those agencies (and by extension, the chief exec that orders them around) weren't trying to downplay the pandemic and that the delays were only because of administrative bloat?

Not trying to twist your words, I just don't get what you're saying. 

The bureaucracic centralization is what enabled the fucked federal response, but I don't think that they would have botched the response as badly as in literally any other administration (on both sides). And I (probably naively) hope we'll never see our public institutions assaulted and undermined to the extent that they have been since 2017, so I don't understand why the CDC and FDA are the boogeymen here. Seem more like scapegoats to me

[Tuco 5076]

3 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Bureaucratic incompetence at CDC spans across administrations.

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/18/opinion/joe-nocera-failures-of-competence.html

 

 

I can't tell if you are just trying to become the parody of bothersidery, but the current administration took a plane full of people who had been exposed to the virus on a cruise, and just dropped them off in the Atlanta airport to catch domestic flights throughout the country.  The last administration had an extra nurse on a plane.  When someone says "even a moderately competent..." they are talking about someone who might have an extra nurse on a flight.  We would be much better with that level of incompetence.  That's the point. 

[Bullneck 18983]

41 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

 

 

Well, he's not the wrong person if you want to make sure that any and all benefit goes to the wealthiest and stays there. Sounds perfect to the .1%.

One thing about Reuters: they don't pull any punches with their headlines.

[Anastasis 23390]

3 minutes ago, Tuco said:

I can't tell if you are just trying to become the parody of bothersidery, but the current administration took a plane full of people who had been exposed to the virus on a cruise, and just dropped them off in the Atlanta airport to catch domestic flights throughout the country.  The last administration had an extra nurse on a plane.  When someone says "even a moderately competent..." they are talking about someone who might have an extra nurse on a flight.  We would be much better with that level of incompetence.  That's the point. 

Sorry for pointing out that calling into question the competence of the CDC is not a particularly new thing. If you need to interpret it through a bothsides lens, I can't stop you from doing that. 

[Tuco 5076]

6 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Sorry for pointing out that calling into question the competence of the CDC is not a particularly new thing. If you need to interpret it through a bothsides lens, I can't stop you from doing that. 

Yeah, there are inefficiencies and incompetence in every organization.  That is a given.  

But ignoring that there are different level of incompetence, and just saying, "well, both administrations made mistakes" is the essence of "both sides" bullshit. 

[Anastasis 23390]

8 minutes ago, Captainant said:

I guess my wires are a little crossed here, I had the understanding that FDA and CDC dragged their feet on doing anything, and put roadblocks in place because that was the directive from the chief executive. It sounds like you're arguing that those agencies (and by extension, the chief exec that orders them around) weren't trying to downplay the pandemic and that the delays were only because of administrative bloat?

Not trying to twist your words, I just don't get what you're saying. 

Here are a few articles that describe different aspects of the breakdown.  They are many. Botched science, regulatory red tape, lack of administration leadership, some unintended consequences, etc.  I really don't understand all the push back on the notion that a decentralized approach to test development and implementation of testing strategy within a federal framework should be considered.  The alternative is a system with the potential for a catastrophic single point of failure. Yeah, that didn't work out so well. 

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/what-went-wrong-with-coronavirus-testing-in-the-us

https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/03/05/905484/why-the-cdc-botched-its-coronavirus-testing/

 

[Anastasis 23390]

1 minute ago, Tuco said:

Yeah, there are inefficiencies and incompetence in every organization.  That is a given.  

But ignoring that there are different level of incompetence, and just saying, "well, both administrations made mistakes" is the essence of "both sides" bullshit. 

Except I didn't say anything like that. 

[Captainant 27403]

2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Here are a few articles that describe different aspects of the breakdown.  They are many. Botched science, regulatory red tape, lack of administration leadership, some unintended consequences, etc.  I really don't understand all the push back on the notion that a decentralized approach to test development and implementation of testing strategy within a federal framework should be considered.  The alternative is a system with the potential for a catastrophic single point of failure. Yeah, that didn't work out so well. 

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/what-went-wrong-with-coronavirus-testing-in-the-us

https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/03/05/905484/why-the-cdc-botched-its-coronavirus-testing/

 

When you put it that way, sure. What you posted before read to me as blaming everything bad on the red tape of the CDC and FDA. 

You keep pointing to these two agencies as a single point of failure, to the exclusion of other decision makers and factors such as direction from the executive to not act, or to spike early testing and test infrastructure efforts. 

My apologies for misinterpreting you if that's not your position.

[Anastasis 23390]

1 minute ago, Captainant said:

When you put it that way, sure. What you posted before read to me as blaming everything bad on the red tape of the CDC and FDA. 

You keep pointing to these two agencies as a single point of failure, to the exclusion of other decision makers and factors such as direction from the executive to not act, or to spike early testing and test infrastructure efforts. 

My apologies for misinterpreting you if that's not your position.

I've been pretty clear that the administration fucked up the test roll out and that decision making and lack of leadership were most certainly contributing factors. 

[bad_teammate 13132]

My god, what pieces of shit landlords must be to be kicking people out right now.

 

[WhatTheBuck 28703]

1 hour ago, washparkhorn said:

Exactly the WRONG person for that job. 

In other words, Trump's ideal candidate for that job. 

[TwiceHorn 31240]

1 hour ago, 4th&Five said:

Ratings. 

 

Christ on the cross.

[Brisketexan 104537]

1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

Christ on the cross.

Sheeit.  Given the choice today, I suspect that Christ would say "you want me to die a painful death for THOSE fuckers?  Nope.  I'm out."  And he'd walk right across the Sea of Galilee never to be seen again.

[honolulu horn 6157]

1 hour ago, 4th&Five said:

Ratings. 

 

Remember pre-2017 when a president took action on actual emergencies instead of believing that approval ratings were the emergency?

Although no sane person would ever say Trump isn't a walking disaster, so when he declares the emergency is about himself, I guess he's right. Advantage Trump.

[NameAlreadyInUse 5105]

1 hour ago, 4th&Five said:

Ratings. 

 

And what this guy always forgets is that the ratings aren't fucking relevant in this situation, so of course no one is talking about them, except him, the king of irrelevancies.

[Captainant 27403]

36 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I've been pretty clear that the administration fucked up the test roll out and that decision making and lack of leadership were most certainly contributing factors. 

For being pretty clear about it, you sure do prefer to talk about and equivocate on every other factor and handwave the failures of the executive to just "lack of leadership"

[DigDug 1649]

Nothing to do with nothing, but watching back through The Wire again.

Beginning of S4 Ep1, some dude off camera is constantly yelling PANDEMIC!  PANDEMIC RIGHT HERE! PANDEMIC!

[Pancho 44436]

 

[Anastasis 23390]

3 minutes ago, Captainant said:

For being pretty clear about it, you sure do prefer to talk about and equivocate on every other factor and handwave the failures of the executive to just "lack of leadership"

You said the feds were the only ones equipped to manage testing, and pointed out that SK and Germany had their shit together. I drew some comparisons based on size and population density, which tell me that perhaps a regional approach to testing would in fact be more effective.  I point out the failures in the centralized approach to test roll out during this pandemic, and provided you with some reading materials that discuss the many aspects of the breakdown, including lack of administration leadership.  I didn't hand wave or equivocate anything. But apparently I did not work enough "Orange Man Test BAD. 100% BAD. REAL BAD" into the exchange to sooth your sensitivities. Sorry.   

[Dnaguy 11763]

2 hours ago, Pancho said:

Siap

 

[4th&Five 41457]

 

[washparkhorn 9934]

It appears Trump or someone close to him freaked out about the Chinese reporter (or some other reporter at the briefings) infecting him with the Corona-clap. All reporters and techs attending now have to pass a virus test - administered earlier today. 

Let's see if that creeps into his stream of consciousness as he considers reopening the country without widespread testing. 

[washparkhorn 9934]

Coronavirus Task Force presser set to begin in 15 minutes for anyone interested.

 

[washparkhorn 9934]

Briefing now starting in 60 seconds. 

[Chuckie Finster 22598]

7 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

Coronavirus Task Force presser set to begin in 15 minutes for anyone interested.

 

[Bama Chick 28596]

God, FUCKKKK these daily hootenannys.

Ugh I’m feeling particularly anxious and sad and just fucking mad today.

Close friend from high school’s father just died alone and his mom has it too. They were like family back in the day. Under normal circumstances, I’d be preparing to fly to Florida for the funeral.

This, plus my daughter’s situation (high school senior losing everything special about senior year and starting college), and working at a hospital has me feeling especially freaked out today.

This sucks y’all.

[washparkhorn 9934]

Airlines getting a bailout according to Trump.

[washparkhorn 9934]

Oil industry getting help according to Trump. 

[Anastasis 23390]

1 minute ago, Bama Chick said:

This, plus my daughter’s situation (high school senior losing everything special about senior year and starting college), and working at a hospital has me feeling especially freaked out today.

 That has to really suck for her.  My wife and I were talking about the impact to schools.  Our daughter is in 5th, and I have been telling her to expect that they won't go back even if they try to squeeze a week or two in the official calendar at teh end of may.  We started talking about the impact to Juniors and Seniors in high school. They're moving to pass/fail, and the potential impacts to rankings and GPA and what not.  Layer in all the other aspects such as the social milestones, and fuck that sucks. There will be lots of layers of ramifications for a long time after the dust settles. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

Sheeit.  Given the choice today, I suspect that Christ would say "you want me to die a painful death for THOSE fuckers?  Nope.  I'm out."  And he'd walk right across the Sea of Galilee never to be seen again.

Jesus would make an exception and straight up murder trump.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33831]

4 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

Airlines getting a bailout according to Trump.

 

3 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

Oil industry getting help according to Trump. 

fuck both of those things

[SimonBolivar 10910]

6 month pass on Student Loans. I believe it was September before so I'm not sure if that's an announcement or not?

[SimonBolivar 10910]

"Best testing system in the world"

[Upgrayedd 5804]

1 minute ago, SimonBolivar said:

"Best testing system in the world"

If you are in the NBA

[Bama Chick 28596]

 That has to really suck for her.  My wife and I were talking about the impact to schools.  Our daughter is in 5th, and I have been telling her to expect that they won't go back even if they try to squeeze a week or two in the official calendar at teh end of may.  We started talking about the impact to Juniors and Seniors in high school. They're moving to pass/fail, and the potential impacts to rankings and GPA and what not.  Layer in all the other aspects such as the social milestones, and fuck that sucks. There will be lots of layers of ramifications for a long time after the dust settles. 

Oh man, I cannot even begin to list all the ways this sucks for them and everything they’re losing.

My daughter’s ranked 11th in her class; she is in 5 AP classes and had already worked out the math for what she needed to do to make the top ten.

Welp - class ranks frozen, fuck her and her hard work.

Still has to take the AP exams for college credit. But everything we’ve been told and heard is basically “The College Board and universities don’t have the bandwidth to deal with all that during this so expect hard as fuck exams to keep the numbers of 4s and 5s low”.

It’s a real loss for these kids and they’re grieving.

I’ve legitimately cried more about her situation than she has though lol.

She’s my last one and gotdamnit I wanted her to have her victory lap, her standing ovation, her time to shine.

It fucking sucks an orange mushroom cock.