CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk

[Chooky 13318]

 

I'm guessing that at least one person questioned that podium and they were overruled by at leas nine other people.  

[NWBuck 8585]

Carter would most likely meet the standard criteria of the Bebbington Quadrilateral 

Quote

• Conversionism: the belief that lives need to be transformed through a “born-again” experience and a life long process of following Jesus
• Activism: the expression and demonstration of the gospel in missionary and social reform efforts
• Biblicism: a high regard for and obedience to the Bible as the ultimate authority
• Crucicentrism: a stress on the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross as making possible the redemption of humanity

Some have argued that Evangelicalism is an extension of Fundamentalism, those spreading the good news of God's fundamental truths. 

And there are many Evangelicals who don't identify as conservative or Republican (many Christians of color, for example). 

But, it's certainly become shorthand for a specific subset of white Christians in America with particular political leanings (similar to the designations "Catholic" and "Protestant" within the 'Troubles' in Ireland- political first, theological afterwards). 

And those particular sisters and brothers in Christ suck. 

Happy Easter. 

Edited April 12, 2020 by NWBuck
Specificity

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

49 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:

Hopefully when this is done the DoD budget is realigned to better guard against something like COVID in the future.  The USA is 100s of times more susceptible to be hurt by something like this than a foreign invasion.  

Lol it should be realigned, but Lockheed would fire a missile up our asses if we even tried to divert budget away from them. 

[DixonHur 11364]

9 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Yes, that's my math.  Going by memory (I'm not going to go back and redo it) just over 6M rides per day in NYC, just over 0.5M rides per day in SF.  Normalized to population, not very different.

So basically nowhere near enough to explain a 50X difference in deaths per capita.

I think Anastasis' thoughts on seeded infection from Europe are closer, but I'm not sure I believe it explains the sudden ramp in NYC relative to SF given they both basically started on the same date.

Jimmy, not sure where you're getting the numbers but New York City mass transit serves an area with 8.4 million people and has an average daily (weekday) ridership of about 9.1 million, so just over 1 ride per day per inhabitant.  BART on the other hand serves an population of about 5.2 million and has an average daily ridership of 420,000, so about 100x less on a per inhabitant level.

Then you have to consider the density of travel...i.e. how crowded are the trains, buses, etc.  NYC averages 37,000 passengers per mile/day, whereas BART's number is 3,700 passengers per mile/day...which is fortunate from a math perspective.  

So many more riders in a more condensed environment means the virus has a greater opportunity to spread person to person in NYC than in a more car dominated area like the Bay Area.

I agree with you and Anastasia about the seeding from Europe, but once it lands, NYC's mass transit provides a better breeding ground for the spread of the virus.

Edited April 12, 2020 by DixonHur
Adjusted Bay Area population down to exclude San Jose area since BART is not there

[jimmyjazz 46118]

25 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Jimmy, not sure where you're getting the numbers but New York City mass transit serves an area with 8.4 million people and has an average daily (weekday) ridership of about 9.1 million, so just over 1 ride per day per inhabitant.  BART on the other hand serves an population of about 5.2 million and has an average daily ridership of 420,000, so about 100x less on a per inhabitant level.

I couldn't find the data for how many people each system served, so I just used the population for each city proper.  Your ridership numbers also look more disparate than what I found.  If what you're saying is true, then yes, that's quite a difference.  (Point of fact:  it's 11X, not 100X .)

[DixonHur 11364]

7 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Point of fact:  it's 11X, not 100X .)

That's what I get for not using Excel...lol

Note to self, don't do math in your head while drinking beer and hiking with pups.

BTW, BART and NYC publish their ridership data.

Edited April 12, 2020 by DixonHur

[jimmyjazz 46118]

3 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

That's what I get for not using Excel...lol

BART and NYC publish their ridership data.

Sure . . . do they publish the "population served" data, too, or are you just using MSA?

At any rate, it's probably well different than I calculated.  Appreciate the assist.

[DixonHur 11364]

4 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Sure . . . do they publish the "population served" data, too, or are you just using MSA?

At any rate, it's probably well different than I calculated.  Appreciate the assist.

I looked at the BART map and then the rough populations for those areas.  I'm out in the woods taking a break so I didn't dive too deep.

[Dnaguy 12057]

5 hours ago, elfenix said:

what about grifter heterodox evangelical?

 

No amount of money can make that woman NOT look like trailer trash.

That’s her best look guys.... her best.

She looks like an actress in a MILF porn.... who’s about to go to town on Don Jr. To cuckold trump and complain about his tiny mushroom.

[Dnaguy 12057]

1 hour ago, DixonHur said:

I looked at the BART map and then the rough populations for those areas.  I'm out in the woods taking a break so I didn't dive too deep.

San Francisco mass transit talk not going away.

Edited April 12, 2020 by Dnaguy

[DixonHur 11364]

54 minutes ago, Dnaguy said:

San Francisco mass transit talk not going away.

Well, it certainly has more to do with the conversation than whether Trump's Evangelical outreach advisor is hot or not.

[HenryJames 66168]

 

[gmr548 16612]

To be fair, including only BART for the Bay Area and not Muni (SF proper - bus and rail) is artificially inflating that comparison.

Obviously transit ridership is more prevalent in NYC and that likely factors into the spread. It's not the only thing though. Look at another transit heavy city, Chicago, vs Detroit, New Orleans, or emerging clusters elsewhere. Chicago is denser, has higher transit ridership, and more flights. And yet they were proactive about SIP and have thus far not had things spiral out of control.

[DixonHur 11364]

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

11 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Another frequent idiot. Goodbye. 

Welp, see ya later, Rex.

[Nivek 16982]

 

Click the link and pay attention to James Lawler’s comments. Also the comparison to historic blunders was appropriate.

[DixonHur 11364]

21 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

To be fair, including only BART for the Bay Area and not Muni (SF proper - bus and rail) is artificially inflating that comparison.

Obviously transit ridership is more prevalent in NYC and that likely factors into the spread. It's not the only thing though. Look at another transit heavy city, Chicago, vs Detroit, New Orleans, or emerging clusters elsewhere. Chicago is denser, has higher transit ridership, and more flights. And yet they were proactive about SIP and have thus far not had things spiral out of control.

Good point.  Muni and BART together have a ridership of about 770k per day, so about 7x lower ridership per person than NYC.

[workswithseed 2110]

9 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Bullshit. Jimmy Carter is a humble, respectable Christian. He was honest about his faith but he never once acted as if he was God's messenger. He ran a secular administration. Go back and re-read his Playboy interview. You're out of your fucking mind if you think Carter is an evangelical.  

Jesus, you must think that all evangelicals are the same. Damn, do you also do that with races as well? I hope not.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

1 minute ago, workswithseed said:

Jesus, you must think that all evangelicals are the same. Damn, do you also do that with races as well? I hope not.

Somebody post the evangelical poll numbers for trump. They might not all be the same, but almost all of the fall in line behind an immoral piece of human shit.

[BrickHorn 18284]

8 hours ago, Wanker Bob said:

I admit it. In 2016 I thought there was a solid chance that Trump would at least turn the corrupt political establishment on it's ear in a positive way for the country. 

Instead he has come in and led the most corrupt and incompetent administration the country has ever seen. He makes Nero look like Abraham Lincoln. To not see that by now takes real derangement. 

[wildcat09 29378]

15 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Replace God with the CIA. 

Replace the CIA with Dick Cheney.

[Anastasis 23482]

And that's fair. 

[Post Oak 20261]

3 hours ago, Dnaguy said:

No amount of money can make that woman NOT look like trailer trash.

That’s her best look guys.... her best.

She looks like an actress in a MILF porn.... who’s about to go to town on Don Jr. To cuckold trump and complain about his tiny mushroom.

She used to be a lot hotter before the surgeries.

Still trash.  

 

[Pancho 44986]

 

[Red Five 40887]

If Fauci told him “Mr. President, if we reopen everything tomorrow, the economy will stabilize but 100 million people will die”, is there any doubt what his decision would be?

[jimmyjazz 46118]

The irony to Trump's utter stupidity is that he is not only squarely in the most at-risk category (male, obese, over 65 years old), his job means he interacts with vastly more people than those of us who are self-isolating.  

Two words:  Boris Johnson 

[Tuco 5077]

2 hours ago, DixonHur said:

Good point.  Muni and BART together have a ridership of about 770k per day, so about 7x lower ridership per person than NYC.

A couple other factors when comparing San Francisco and New York City:

- I would expect the number of New Yorkers who live in buildings with more than 12 housing units is much greater than SF.  It's been a while since I've been to SF, but I don't recall that there were a ton of high rise apartment complexes, and expect that trend would continue as you spread out from Manhatten or the City.  Anyone who is sharing a building is sharing hallways, door handles, and interior space HVAC.  Which brings me to second point.

- With the mild climate, there are fewer shared interior spaces.  I went to school north of SF in the 80s and one of the big surprises to me was the lack of hallways. Classrooms open to the outside.  If someone sneezes when going between class rooms, it's not going to hang in the hallway for 30 minutes, it's going to blow away and dilute in seconds.  The surfaces are going to be exposed to UV light.  I think with apartment buildings, you are more likely to get the Melrose Place layout instead of sharing hallways.  

I still think di Blasio's failure to close schools until mid-March was the biggest factor, but if someone was looking at other factors to look at, I would include those two.  What is a fucking shame is that I think increasing population density is extremely important for the environment (for a given population growth), but it makes us more susceptible to outbreaks. 

[Pam Cummings 9658]

2 hours ago, workswithseed said:

Jesus, you must think that all evangelicals are the same. Damn, do you also do that with races as well? I hope not.

You don't choose your race the way you get to choose your religion tho so it's actually not the same at all.

[workswithseed 2110]

3 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

You don't choose your race the way you get to choose your religion tho so it's actually not the same at all.

So lumping people isn't like lumping people as the same? 

Schindler was in the Nazi party, but I don't think he hated Jews.

[Pam Cummings 9658]

7 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

So lumping people isn't like lumping people as the same? 

Schindler was in the Nazi party, but I don't think he hated Jews.

I'm just calling bullshit on you comparing religion and race as if it is anything close to the same.

[tchookem 3905]

So lumping people isn't like lumping people as the same?  Schindler was in the Nazi party, but I don't think he hated Jews.

 

Schindler was (at best) indifferent to people's suffering until he had his eyes opened. Who will be your red jacket girl? 

 

 

[workswithseed 2110]

21 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

I'm just calling bullshit on you comparing religion and race as if it is anything close to the same.

I get what you're saying. 

 

16 minutes ago, tchookem said:

29 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

So lumping people isn't like lumping people as the same? 
Schindler was in the Nazi party, but I don't think he hated Jews.

Schindler was (at best) indifferent to people's differing until he had his eyes opened. What will be your red jacket girl moment?

What? What do you even mean by this? Are you saying I'm racist, or I hate Jews? What the fuck are you insinuating?

Edited April 12, 2020 by workswithseed

[tchookem 3905]

What? What do you even mean by this? Are you saying I'm racist, or I hate Jews? What the fuck are you insinuating?

I'm saying you (a Trump supporter), like Schindler (a Nazi), supported and benefited from policies that have the intended and unintended consequences of human suffering.

Trump's response to COVID-19 isn't a one-off event, it's the culmination of 3 years of policy failures. Schindler ignored the suffering caused by Nazi policy for years because he benefited from it. You've ignored the suffering caused by Trump's policy because you somehow benefited from minor tax cuts and triggered liberals.

Well, Schindler had his "a-ha" moment. What will your's be?

I can't speak about you hating Jews or being racist. Maybe? But probably not.

[Tom 2959]

17 hours ago, 4th&Five said:

Sad!

 

 

This tweet almost triggered me until it was pointed out the NYT were acting like dogs.   Like our dear leader, I can't stand people who act like dogs, whose acts include getting fired, getting thrown out of place like China, etc.  Fucking dogs, I swear...

[Michael Knight 12994]

 

[Tom 2959]

21 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

So curious. You’ve already been called on the fact the W is Methodist (after leaving his Episcopalian roots for Laura’s UMC upbringing). H.W. destroyed the GOP primary with 67%+ of the vote and beat Greek Orthodox Dukakis soundly. At no point did he need his son’s help for the evangelical vote. You seem to really have an issue with the term “evangelical” without having an understanding of what it means. 

[cactusflinthead 27601]

4 hours ago, Nivek said:

Click the link and pay attention to James Lawler’s comments. Also the comparison to historic blunders was appropriate.

Goddammit. Every day a new reason to get pissed off at the fat ass in the WH. 80 pages of worried scientists and the last entry was 3/17. 

 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13587]

17 minutes ago, Tom said:

 

This tweet almost triggered me until it was pointed out the NYT were acting like dogs.   Like our dear leader, I can't stand people who act like dogs, whose acts include getting fired, getting thrown out of place like China, etc.  Fucking dogs, I swear...

Who doesn't hate dogs? Of all the animals on earth to illustrate one's worst qualities, Trump, as usual, nails it.

[workswithseed 2110]

59 minutes ago, tchookem said:

I'm saying you (a Trump supporter), like Schindler (a Nazi), supported and benefited from policies that have the intended and unintended consequences of human suffering.

Trump's response to COVID-19 isn't a one-off event, it's the culmination of 3 years of policy failures. Schindler ignored the suffering caused by Nazi policy for years because he benefited from it. You've ignored the suffering caused by Trump's policy because you somehow benefited from minor tax cuts and triggered liberals.

Well, Schindler had his "a-ha" moment. What will your's be?

I can't speak about you hating Jews or being racist. Maybe? But probably not.

I didn't vote at all last election. I'll be voting libertarian on this one. 

[4th&Five 41586]

 

[Guest Lobo]

7 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

 

Finally, an Easter victory for the Jews!  Couple that with the shrimp boats in the Gulf being ordered back to port.  

In all seriousness---how serious of a disruption would this really be?  One nice thing about lockdown is wife is letting me grill more than usual.

[Chuckie Finster 22728]

I didn't vote at all last election. I'll be voting libertarian on this one. 

LMAO, yeah Vermin Supreme is the answer.

[BrickHorn 18284]

23 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

I didn't vote at all last election. I'll be voting libertarian on this one. 

“Don’t blame me.  I voted for ‘Gary Johnson.’”

[Royalfan5 2355]

17 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

 

For scale that plant can kill 22,000 a day out of 507,000 national capacity. This plant is getting the pub, but Tyson had a similar sized plant in Iowa go down last week. We also have a fuckload of pork in cold storage. It’s more of a farmer issue than a consumer issue at this point. Same with the JBS cattle plants battling the same issue. 

[workswithseed 2110]

Just now, Chuckie Finster said:

LMAO, yeah Vermin Supreme is the answer.

I don't think many libertarians love the government giving away free ponies. 

[DixonHur 11364]

21 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

 

Trump's golden opportunity...now he can call it the Swine flu and blame Obama again

[workswithseed 2110]

Just now, BrickHorn said:

“Don’t blame me.  I voted for ‘Gary Johnson.’”

I mean you let Donald win too. You could have voted harder against him.

Also it would have been "Don't blame me. I voted for no one."

[6th Street 6497]

2 minutes ago, Royalfan5 said:

For scale that plant can kill 22,000 a day out of 507,000 national capacity. This plant is getting the pub, but Tyson had a similar sized plant in Iowa go down last week. We also have a fuckload of pork in cold storage. It’s more of a farmer issue than a consumer issue at this point. Same with the JBS cattle plants battling the same issue. 

Right, herds gotta be getting out of control 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

1 minute ago, workswithseed said:

I mean you let Donald win too. You could have voted harder against him.

Also it would have been "Don't blame me. I voted for no one."

If you don't vote at all, you shouldn't be posting your political opinions.  You don't even value your opinions yourself. Why should others value them?

[workswithseed 2110]

1 minute ago, FondrenRoad said:

If you don't vote at all, you shouldn't be posting your political opinions.  You don't even value your opinions yourself. Why should others value them?

That's why I'm voting this year.