CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk

[elfenix 34658]

The Conservative movement has been dead for ages. All either side truly cares about is staying in power.

Hard to get things done for your constituents when you're out of power.

[henrygandorf 29220]

31 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

This ad is brutal.  

 

every ad gets this type of treatment on twitter.  this is brutal.  this is fire.  holy shit, best ad i've seen in a long time.

but this one is fucking great.  all he does is talk?  ok, let's use his words against him.  for all the talk about "where's biden", when shit like this is out there, you don't even need an opponent.

[henrygandorf 29220]

1 minute ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

Did Barr ever get confirmed? Does an unconfirmed ag have any authority?

we don't really do "confirmed" anymore.

[Wanker Bob 379]

3 hours ago, FondrenRoad said:

Wait. The Jacksonville fan guy was a Columbine student?

Supposedly. It was circulating around the internet 8 or so years ago when someone found the Columbine class picture with the shooters in it and also found a kid that looks exactly like jaguars fan. Not sure if he has ever confirmed it or not. 

https://www.ignboards.com/threads/dont-know-if-old-jaguars-guy-from-that-gif-went-columbine-during-the-shooting.454495891/

[kevwun 16269]

Just now, longhornmatt said:

Lots (most) are convincing themselves that paying it back at 1.00% is the only downside to misusing the PPP loan program.   As a practical matter, that may end up being true, and I’m sure they’ll find plenty of lawyers who will tell them what they want to hear on a phone call.  

But going by the letter of the law, there is plenty of risk if the government decides to look for abuse and enforce anything.  And that’s why - regardless of what they might be telling clients privately - all the big law firms have disclaimer advisory articles on their websites talking about the False Claims Act and other potential penalties, and how you’re flying blind if you apply for PPP loans now without further rules and guidance being issued.  

The big corporations will make a few key donations to avoid the government coming after the money.  They will come out well ahead.

[Francisco 2.0 32543]

2 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

Did Barr ever get confirmed? Does an unconfirmed ag have any authority?

Yep.  54-45.  In Feb 2019.

 

 

[DixonHur 11941]

35 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

And who covers the lawsuits when people start dying because they were forced back to work?

Trump's got a plan for that...

Trump says he’s aiming to shield corporations from legal liability for workers who contract Covid-19 on the job

“We are trying to take liability away from these companies,” Trump said in response to a reporter’s question on the subject. “We just don’t want that because we want the companies to open and to open strong. But I’ll get you a legal opinion on that.”

[F250 29175]

6 minutes ago, Jive Turkey said:

i agree.  it's just more talking out of both sides of the mouth from Trumpco.  Trump says it's up to the states to take of this.  the feds are a backup.  governors decide when to reopen.  but now Barr is gonna bring action against states that are too tough on COVID-19?  figure out a fucking plan and execute.  is that asking too much?

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

This can't be a winning political strategy can it?

 

[jimmyjazz 46976]

9 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

if ruth's chris doesn't keep their workers, whatever.  just pay that shit back with interest.  the sticky part is the forgiveness. (and in this case, horrible pr)

Well, that doesn't do a lot for the businesses that went under in the meantime.  I suppose it's possible the total number of affected workers is similar, but there's still an economic and cultural price to pay when mom & pop shops have to permanently close their doors.

[Message Board User 12405]

 

[Queen Bitch 1692]

Why is the right still touting this 60k death total? We're going to be at 50k before the end of April.

What am I missing here?

[henrygandorf 29220]

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

Well, that doesn't do a lot for the businesses that went under in the meantime.  I suppose it's possible the total number of affected workers is similar, but there's still an economic and cultural price to pay when mom & pop shops have to permanently close their doors.

i agree, but it's on the govt to do the assessment of need across small business and appropriate the necessary funds.  there will be plenty of companies/people that accept cash who don't need it as much as others.  

they should start conducting audits of these loans, and once it's determined they skirted the rules, then it's switched over to a normal loan with their institution, and the $20mm goes back into the pot.  at this point, it's not between rc and their bank, it's between their bank and the sba allocation funds.

the ruth's chris people are acting like scumbags, but to act like $20mm tipped the scales of a $350bb program is short-sighted.  there are way too many flaws to count.

[henrygandorf 29220]

2 minutes ago, Queen Bitch said:

Why is the right still touting this 60k death total? We're going to be at 50k before the end of April. this week.

 

[4th&Five 41904]

Just now, Queen Bitch said:

Why is the right still touting this 60k death total? We're going to be at 50k before the end of April.

What am I missing here?

Trump has set the bar that anything under a million is a success.

[DDD Dad 14571]

15 minutes ago, elfenix said:

13 hours ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

The Conservative movement has been dead for ages. All either side truly cares about is staying in power.

Hard to get things done for your constituents donors when you're out of power.

Fixed.

Edited April 21, 2020 by DDD Dad

[Red Five 41596]

The reporters should all get together and agree to ask questions only about hydroxy today. 

[Queen Bitch 1692]

Just now, Red Five said:

The reporters should all get together and agree to ask questions only about hydroxycut today. 

 

[bolverk 30231]

6 minutes ago, Queen Bitch said:

Why is the right still touting this 60k death total? We're going to be at 50k before the end of April.

What am I missing here?

There's a very good chance we'll hit 60k by the end of the month unless daily deaths start declining, but the next several days are already baked in as we've continued to have new daily cases come in at the 25-30k range for the past several days.

[Steamboat1874 4284]

11 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

i agree, but it's on the govt to do the assessment of need across small business and appropriate the necessary funds.  there will be plenty of companies/people that accept cash who don't need it as much as others.  

they should start conducting audits of these loans, and once it's determined they skirted the rules, then it's switched over to a normal loan with their institution, and the $20mm goes back into the pot.  at this point, it's not between rc and their bank, it's between their bank and the sba allocation funds.

the ruth's chris people are acting like scumbags, but to act like $20mm tipped the scales of a $350bb program is short-sighted.  there are way too many flaws to count.

I went to Ruth's Chris once........no need to ever go back.

[DixonHur 11941]

Wasn't Trump just talking shit about the ACA web rollout?

[Wanker Bob 379]

I'm sure the total is already well over 60,000  simply because they aren't counting all the people who died at home who never got tested. Like that guy that posts on here's aunt

[Ghost of LL 15664]

2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I don't do enough state court practice, but back in the day Eastland was esteemed and Houston 1st, but not 14th.  This in Dallas and Tarrant County courts.

Trump thinks you look it up in some book of laws.

Eastland is good for oil & gas cases.

Austin is the leading authority on cases relating to sovereign immunity (as you would expect).

The Houston courts are good, but I think they are relied upon more because of the number of decisions they turn out more than anything else.  It really doesn't matter what your fact scenario is, I guarantee you there is a published decision from one of the Houston courts that is closely analogous.

Beaumont and Corpus used to have very bad reputations.  Now I think they both have very good reputations.  El Paso is now the one that you look at and say, "oh, yeah--that's gonna get reversed by SCOTX."  Fort Worth and Waco also have pretty middling reputations.

I swear to God I don't think I've ever cited a case from either Tyler or Texarkana.  And I think I've cited an Amarillo case once.

1 hour ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Who are these reformed Trump voters? Where are they? I don't know any IRL and haven't noticed any posting online, here or elsewhere. I've seen one or two posters here say their parent(s) voted for Trump but now hate him. That's secondhand and how do I know they're not going to pull the lever for Trump again in November because "socialism!" or some such?

Hey reformed Trump voters of Surly, stand up and be recognized!

My FIL is one.

He's a racist, in that way that most white males of his age with no college education is racist.  He's not out there flying Confederate Battle Flags or dropping n-bombs.  But he comes from a background in which white people hold a privileged position in society, and he doesn't want that to fall by the wayside.  He recognizes that.  He acknowledges that he has some racist views.  And he acknowledges that they're wrong.  But he's not going to abandon them, either.

So fuck yeah, he voted for Trump.

But of late, he's acknowledged that Trump is (1) incompetent, (2) untruthful, and (3) ineffectual.  He says he has no idea how Trump is going to get reelected, and I can only assume he's saying that based on his voting intention and that of his friends.  And so yeah--I have every confidence that he is going to vote for Joe Biden.

[elfenix 34658]

I think the investigation needs to be into the structure of the deal itself.  Why were the rules set up so that fairly large restaurant chains could receive funds?  Why were banks allowed to skirt any kind of first come, first serve approach, or perhaps means testing?
I think it's better that Shake Shack sent back their funds, but let's be honest -- they knew what they were doing and just didn't expect the blowback.  

Afaik it was all first come, first serve.

[Eastwood 4394]

3 minutes ago, elfenix said:

 

 

Afaik it was all first come, first serve.

It is starting to trickle out that banks put their biggest clients and those that they had personal relationships with to the front of the line.

[Dahobbs 18190]

24 minutes ago, Queen Bitch said:

Why is the right still touting this 60k death total? We're going to be at 50k before the end of April.

What am I missing here?

IHME model says roughly 60k. And it isn't entirely unreasonable that we could have 50k before the end of April and only another 10k until August. Quick moving epidemics like this often have steep growth curves and equally steep declines. That said, it seems to me like we are more likely to have a long tail with this particularly outbreak just due to the way things have played out. 

[jimmyjazz 46976]

4 minutes ago, elfenix said:

Afaik it was all first come, first serve.

 

No, existing customers were moved ahead of new customers at several banking conglomerates.

[UDontKnow 10557]

1 hour ago, Jive Turkey said:

Right on cue. 

 

I really hope that fat fuck dies a slow and painful death. Thousands may die, yet there is no limit to playing politics, is there? 

[Biff Tannen 46061]

1 minute ago, Eastwood said:

It is starting to trickle out that banks put their biggest clients and those that they had personal relationships with to the front of the line.

Right, which fucks small businesses that this was really meant for because the funds are depleted by the big players.

[pacman 7490]

56 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

Ruth’s Chris had $80,000,000 cash on hand and took $20,000,000 from PPP (which I guess represents 2.5 months of payroll for them, although I’m not sure how all the exemptions for restaurants work because I thought borrowers were capped at no more than $10,000,000).

There are several certifications borrowers had to make on the PPP loan application, one of which is a certification that the loan funds would be necessary for the company to maintain ongoing operations.  Of course there are zero rules or guidance on how the SBA determines what qualifies as necessary - because the whole thing is a clownshow clusterfuck - but the CARES Act itself and numerous other federal laws would make a false certification about eligibility or misuse of funds for items other than payroll costs crimes punishable by fines and prison time.   The CARES Act also says the loan loses its nonrecourse status if funds are misused, and the SBA can go after the borrower and individual shareholders who participated.

Everyone is applying for PPP loans, and many are abusing the system (even many true small businesses that have plenty of cash on hand).   I wish there would be a crackdown on this program, but I doubt there ever will be.   If they aren’t going to really go after abusers, at a minimum, when everyone starts applying for the loan forgiveness in a few months, they should be told to eat a bag of dicks so they at least don’t get free gifted money.

the owning company of Ruth Chris used two different entities to apply, and get the max for each

then laid everybody and their mother off

1% interest, instead of forgiven, is nothing to them, so they don't care about abiding by the payroll rules

what would really be interesting, if ruths chris planned to then uses those funds to buy up smaller, competing steakhouses that didn't get funds and were facing default

 

 

 

i suspect that will be a large result of the first stimulus package, imo

 

don't forget, large hotel chains were also allowed to participate, along with the large restaurant chains

Edited April 21, 2020 by pacman

[Pig Bellmont 8867]

Pussies

[Dnaguy 12572]

40 minutes ago, Queen Bitch said:

Why is the right still touting this 60k death total? We're going to be at 50k before the end of April.

What am I missing here?

Because the deaths will disappear before getting to 60,000.

One day it’s like a miracle, they will disappear. 

[RomaVicta 30501]

17 hours ago, Michael Knight said:

I am shocked...shocked

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2020/04/20/small-businesses-sue-chase-bank-over-handling-stimulus/5163654002/

You see, you can trust the banks and other entities to look out for our interests because they have to answer for their actions in the market. If they pollute a river or screw small businesses to make better profits, then consumers will punish them in the market by not seeking their goods and services. It's why we don't need government oversight, or lawyers, or unions, or newspapers to counter balance corporate power.

Government, lawyers, unions, and the press are your enemies and only work to harm your heroes: the swell folks who pulled themselves up by their bootstraps to become part of the cream of the elite. One day you might become one of them. It happens all the time. Just turn on your TV and don't let your enemies (listed above) stand in your way.

Oh, and War is Peace.

[pacman 7490]

28 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Wasn't Trump just talking shit about the ACA web rollout?

They had an incident when they first opened the portal too. So, this is the second tie they have had to notify users.

[pacman 7490]

1 hour ago, Jive Turkey said:

Right on cue. 

 

Trump: It is up to the States...

 

also Trump: It is not up to the States..

[Prepuce of Doom 21260]

 

[Jiggy-Z 3506]

15 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

IHME model says roughly 60k. And it isn't entirely unreasonable that we could have 50k before the end of April and only another 10k until August. Quick moving epidemics like this often have steep growth curves and equally steep declines. That said, it seems to me like we are more likely to have a long tail with this particularly outbreak just due to the way things have played out. 

Yeah that model had the death basically stopping at 60,000 in May with just a daily trickle of a few deaths through August...and that was assuming that we keep doing what we are doing today.  I think we get close on the 60,000 by the end of April and add another 20,000 by August, and that is if we do not lift restrictions. 

Other than getting a handle on overwhelming hospitals and preventing unnecessary death due to shortages in care and machines, nothing has really changed.  Testing is linear, vaccine still at least one year away, no effective treatment.  The best option might be a slow burn strategy and hope the CFR is lower than what the incomplete data is showing us today.  We might get a little under that 200,000 deaths after 1 year plus of this if we are lucky and strategic.

[Wanker Bob 379]

I'm thinking there is a "nothing less than 100% chance" that Republican governors will open up prematurely at the behest of Trump and and we're going to see massive rebound spikes and be well over 60000 confirmed deaths very soon unless they just stop testing for it all together. 

[4th&Five 41904]

Just now, Jiggy-Z said:

Yeah that model had the death basically stopping at 60,000 in May with just a daily trickle of a few deaths through August...and that was assuming that we keep doing what we are doing today.  I think we get close on the 60,000 by the end of April and add another 20,000 by August, and that is if we do not lift restrictions. 

Other than getting a handle on overwhelming hospitals and preventing unnecessary death due to shortages in care and machines, nothing has really changed.  Testing is linear, vaccine still at least one year away, no effective treatment.  The best option might be a slow burn strategy and hope the CFR is lower than what the incomplete data is showing us today.  We might get a little under that 200,000 deaths after 1 year plus of this if we are lucky and strategic.

Yep.  All the time we've spent in our houses has been wasted by the federal government because Trump is a moron and put morons in charge before saying "ahh fuck it...it's up to the states."  We're no closer to returning to normal life than we were on March 14th because nothing has really changed.

[lemonlime 5503]

1 hour ago, Queen Bitch said:

Why is the right still touting this 60k death total? We're going to be at 50k before the end of April.

What am I missing here?

Alternative facts.  The 50k deaths is fake news.

[pacman 7490]

nm

Edited April 21, 2020 by pacman

[henrygandorf 29220]

39 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Quick moving epidemics like this often have steep growth curves and equally steep declines. 

is this based on previous epidemics that required worldwide stay-at-home orders, followed by haphazard willy-nilly openings of states?

i think 60k by august is the best possible scenario if everyone stayed at home until august.  and even then it's probably more like 75k.  but that's not what's happening.

[SubliminalHorn 6995]

12 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

Yep.  All the time we've spent in our houses has been wasted by the federal government because Trump is a moron and put morons in charge before saying "ahh fuck it...it's up to the states."  We're no closer to returning to normal life than we were on March 14th because nothing has really changed.

Yep that’s what people aren’t getting. This will have been all in vain-the economic damage, social isolation-if we just open right back up. We don’t have the testing capability and are being hamstrung by this administration. An economic depression for nothing all because of the fucking fraud squatting in the White House. 

[Beantown Express 2.0 6586]

7 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

is this based on previous epidemics that required worldwide stay-at-home orders, followed by haphazard willy-nilly openings of states?

i think 60k by august is the best possible scenario if everyone stayed at home until august.  and even then it's probably more like 75k.  but that's not what's happening.

The number of deaths won’t matter.  At some point the argument from Trump will be that those people were going to die anyways from something so maybe it wasn’t even Corona Virus.  We can’t really be sure what killed those 100K people over the last 6 months.  His base will eat it up and Fox News and the rest of his mouthpieces will spout that story to the masses.  

[henrygandorf 29220]

1 hour ago, Red Five said:

The reporters should all get together and agree to ask questions only about hydroxy today. 

cnn just led with it (top of the hour, new show).  whomever is in the room today - acosta, caitlan collins, etc - will definitely ask about it.

[Chooky 13337]

Who's more dangerous? Immigrants or Ron DeSantis? 

[GreenspointTexas 9933]

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/texas-lt-gov-dan-patrick-reopening-economy-more-important-things-n1188911
 

 

jesus fucking christ

[henrygandorf 29220]

39 minutes ago, Prepuce of Doom said:

 

pay attention, morons.  this is how you protest.

[Message Board User 12405]

 

[Jiggy-Z 3506]

30 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

Yep.  All the time we've spent in our houses has been wasted by the federal government because Trump is a moron and put morons in charge before saying "ahh fuck it...it's up to the states."  We're no closer to returning to normal life than we were on March 14th because nothing has really changed.

Well, I wouldn't say "wasted".  There have been a lot of "non federal" /"non state" things that have happened to lessen the effect going forward. 

There is in fact more testing in place right now than then.  Not enough, but we are learning from it.  There have been two studies in California that indicate 3-4% of the population may have already had the virus and the benefits that come with that.  The virus has picked off a lot of "low hanging fruit", so one would think that might bode well for the CFR going forward.  Medical community has strengthened its supply chain.  The populous is more agreeable to restriction than in the beginning.  We have ruled out some snake oil treatments.  We have made some progress on the vaccine side of things and what was once an 18 month job is now 16 months.   We are at some unknown % of infection which brings us that much closer to the herd immunity % required, in theory. We have some different attack models from other counties and do not have to reinvent the wheel should we consider doing those in the future.

All of that stuff is not really quantifiable at this point, but in sum it is significant.

But we are in a difficult place.  We cannot keep doing what we are doing and we cannot yet move forward either, at least not without great risk or loss of life.  We simply have not done the work that needs to be done at this point.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

29 minutes ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

The number of deaths won’t matter.  At some point the argument from Trump will be that those people were going to die anyways from something so maybe it wasn’t even Corona Virus.  We can’t really be sure what killed those 100K people over the last 6 months.  His base will eat it up and Fox News and the rest of his mouthpieces will spout that story to the masses.  

With that mentality, we should just go extinct now.  After all, it is inevitable too.  May as well get it over with.