CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk

[RPM 26352]

25 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

So for argument’s sake let’s say the level of falsehoods and their severity are similar between Trump and China regarding the Coronavirus, even though I may disagree. 
 

I don’t read WaPo everyday, but I feel safe going on a limb and saying every statement Trump or any government official has made has been dissected and questioned thoroughly. That being the case, why would WaPo give China and the CCP preferential treatment over our own government, wrong as they may be?  
 

Maybe you’re right and Jennifer Rubin will be out next week with a column trashing the Chinese ambassador or maybe even questioning him/China? First she would have to stop fellating Andrew Cuomo. 

I haven't read the editorial, but it's in the Opinion section. You can say and do whatever the fuck you feel like in the Opinion section. That is the FOX News mantra. Until you start calling bullshit on all the propaganda they churn out on a nightly basis, you might want to STFU about one WaPo editorial.

[GRHorn 105]

7 minutes ago, RPM said:

I haven't read the editorial, but it's in the Opinion section. You can say and do whatever the fuck you feel like in the Opinion section. That is the FOX News mantra. Until you start calling bullshit on all the propaganda they churn out on a nightly basis, you might want to STFU about one WaPo editorial.

1) so we’re lifting the veil on WaPo being some kind of neutral news? It’s Fox News level?

2) who is more hostile to our country’s interests? Someone like Mike Huckabee or a CCP mouthpiece like the Ambassador?

[GRHorn 105]

13 minutes ago, RPM said:

I haven't read the editorial, but it's in the Opinion section. You can say and do whatever the fuck you feel like in the Opinion section. That is the FOX News mantra. Until you start calling bullshit on all the propaganda they churn out on a nightly basis, you might want to STFU about one WaPo editorial.

Also “you can say and do whatever the fuck you feel”.  You mean I can write a column? Oh do they only approve certain people to get past their gatekeepers?  
Interesting. 

[RPM 26352]

Huckabee has 0 interest in this country. He's about grift.

[RPM 26352]

Just now, GRHorn said:

You mean I can write a column?

Absolutely. It's called Letters to The Editor. You should check it out.

[GRHorn 105]

Just now, RPM said:

Absolutely. It's called Letters to The Editor. You should check it out.

You mean if I write a column that’s completely full of shit they’ll print it? Probably not.

1 minute ago, RPM said:

Huckabee has 0 interest in this country. He's about grift.

And the CCP wants to usurp our country. Which is worse?

Thanks for making my point.
 

Cheers. 

[David Dennison 18946]

1 minute ago, GRHorn said:

And the CCP wants to usurp our country. Which is worse?

We're making it easy for them by ceding global leadership.

 

[SaucyJack 3503]

5 hours ago, Dark Horse said:

ghouls.

JFC, there is no bottom.

[GRHorn 105]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

We're making it easy for them by ceding global leadership.

 

And WaPo should assist them because why, again?

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20486]

11 hours ago, Grade of D as in David said:

Going to need a ton of lube

 

Bought a barrel of WTI for 19 bucks last week. I'm covered for a long time. 

[Irwin F Fletcher 3550]

 
Bought a barrel of WTI for 19 bucks last week. I'm covered for a long time. 

Too soon my friend.

[henrygandorf 29194]

21 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

You mean if I write a column that’s completely full of shit they’ll print it? Probably not.

print it?  maybe not. but cyberspace is unlimited so you never know. 

[Patrick Bateman 3928]

6 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

This is most likely just the tip of the iceberg.  The data shows there's one outlier in fatality rate for the 15 hardest hit states.  Our fatality is rate is incredibly and most likely artificially low.  5% would mean we're closer to 2k fatalities from COV than less than 1k.  Abbott and company are most likely playing with the numbers.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Patrick Bateman

[Pig Bellmont 8737]

Remember when republicans pretended to care about shit like this? What was the line about Solyndra? “The White House shouldn’t get to pick winners and losers”? 

[Anastasis 23484]

10 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

This is most likely just the tip of the iceberg.  The data shows there's one outlier in fatality rate for the 15 hardest hit states.  Our fatality is rate is incredibly and most likely artificially low.  5% would mean we're closer to 2k fatalities from COV than less than 1k.  Abbott and company are most likely playing with the numbers.

Is there any evidence that Texas is hiding deaths. I mean death would seem to me tk be a pretty hard endpoint. Are we shuffling off pneumonia deaths to some other category right now to obfuscate the numbers?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

16 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

This is most likely just the tip of the iceberg.  The data shows there's one outlier in fatality rate for the 15 hardest hit states.  Our fatality is rate is incredibly and most likely artificially low.  5% would mean we're closer to 2k fatalities from COV than less than 1k.  Abbott and company are most likely playing with the numbers.

What you could do is look at total 2020 death numbers through May 1st in Texas and compare them to the average deaths from previous years.  It wouldn’t tell you how many C19 deaths but it would give you a ballpark idea if it’s more significant than being reported, assuming Texas isn’t hiding bodies.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Hugo Stiglitz

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

55 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

You mean if I write a column that’s completely full of shit they’ll print it? Probably not.

And the CCP wants to usurp our country. Which is worse?

Thanks for making my point.
 

Cheers. 

I appreciate your efforts to both sides this but you need to pay Anastasis for some tutoring...

And get this - forget columns in newspapers - Nobody’s got time for readin...you can actually be totally full of shit and get a whole god damned show...on primetime.  Hit up FoxNews brother...

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

5 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Is there any evidence that Texas is hiding deaths. I mean death would seem to me tk be a pretty hard endpoint. Are we shuffling off pneumonia deaths to some other category right now to obfuscate the numbers?

Actually numbers are seriously underreported because even if you think someone died of C19, 99% of the time you don’t test posthumously.  So unless they were already diagnosed - low probability in nursing home cases where most of the deaths are occurring.  It’s finally changing for the better though...
 

Lots of C19 deaths are classified just as pneumonia or acute respiratory failure, not specifically C19.  Ive seen it in dozens of cases myself.  
 

We are finally testing entire nursing homes around here - couple months after we should have started.  

[Patrick Bateman 3928]

19 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Is there any evidence that Texas is hiding deaths. I mean death would seem to me tk be a pretty hard endpoint. Are we shuffling off pneumonia deaths to some other category right now to obfuscate the numbers?

It's not outright lying or hiding deaths, right.  One of my buddies is a higher up in emergency services for Homeland specializing in exactly these type of events and I asked how some of these states like Texas, Tennessee, and Iowa have such low fatality rates.  Now Iowa has a low overall case load so it's more plausible but for Texas who has over 35k cases, it's more in the way it's classifying or not classifying fatalities.  First, you ensure opaqueness at hotspot centers whereby only the state government's HHS will publicize cases.  These are places like nursing homes, prisons, ALCs, etc.  Also, they're most likely not producing tests for people post-mortem in a robust way. 

So if someone dies without a positive test, then they may not be classified as a COV death, even if the deceased was exhibiting all the symptoms of COV.  Also, if someone has another serious medical situation like say a major surgery they're recovering from but maybe they're older but do test positive from COV.  They can judge their death from other underlying conditions as cause of death like pneumonia, infection, etc.  There's not one way of classifying deaths for data purposes for the states (another failure of the Feds), so states can sort of make up their own rules or so I've been told.  I asked specifically about Texas and he said....... "well, you put the pieces together.  Conservative, terrible with testing the first month, want to open back up sooner than later, and not following the federal guidelines to opening the state back up".  Abbott and company are betting the warm weather and COV fatigue give them cover if/when the first wave doesn't fully leave Texas or it comes out later how they went about their definitions and have to go back and reclassify cases.....

EDIT:  Or what ChitownDoc said...

 

Edited May 8, 2020 by Patrick Bateman

[Anastasis 23484]

11 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Actually numbers are seriously underreported because even if you think someone died of C19, 99% of the time you don’t test posthumously.  So unless they were already diagnosed - low probability in nursing home cases where most of the deaths are occurring.  It’s finally changing for the better though...
 

Lots of C19 deaths are classified just as pneumonia or acute respiratory failure, not specifically C19.  Ive seen it in dozens of cases myself.  
 

We are finally testing entire nursing homes around here - couple months after we should have started.  

But does that reflect a systematic attempt to suppress the death counts by the state, or just under-attribution for a variety of reasoning including testing practices. There is a difference. Death certificate coding does not require a confirmation by testing, but nobody is really ready to assess those data due to the lag.  I agree with Hugo that some comparisons to historical data would help, but with greater focus on deaths related to respiratory conditions as you suggest.  

Edited May 8, 2020 by Anastasis

[Born to Run 6569]

Again, while the feds are MIA on that, what you are saying is flatly untrue.  I am working with tons of entities (including my own business) that are getting literally STACKS of guidance.  And none of that guidance is "throw your doors wide open, fuck it, hope you don't die!"  Sure, there are idiot protesters yelling for that.  But that's NOT what any of the guidance from authorities has been (at least where I am in Texas) -- I'm sure there are some municipalities in SEC country screwing the pooch, and some in Texas as well.  But generally, the guidance is pretty good and consistent in terms of maintaining distancing, mask or other protective gear, and frequent cleaning and hygiene procedures.  Which, collectively, may well keep the transmission rate sufficiently low.
Again, no excuses for the feds being crooked fuckups.  Or for many state and local leaders being Trumpy whores.  But the real-world activity that most folks are working with is at least in the realm of sensible.

Cool go get a haircut at a barber that's merely following Abbot's " guidelines"

FFS people don't even know how to wear masks, they can't get them and they aren't required
That's a slam dunk PSA for any Potus except this one
Guidance!
They are working on shifts!

[Anastasis 23484]

4 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

So if someone dies without a positive test, then they may not be classified as a COV death, even if the deceased was exhibiting all the symptoms of COV.  Also, if someone has another serious medical situation like say a major surgery they're recovering from but maybe they're older but do test positive from COV.  They can judge their death from other underlying conditions as cause of death like pneumonia, infection, etc.  There's not one way of classifying deaths for data purposes for the states (another failure of the Feds), so states can sort of make up their own rules or so I've been told. 

CDC guidance does not require a test confirmation for coding probable cause on the death certificate.  But nobody is looking at those numbers yet because they are too lagged. 

[RPM 26352]

1 hour ago, GRHorn said:

And WaPo should assist them because why, again?

Maybe you should stick to news that's more to your liking. I hear OANN is tailored to your needs.

[Anastasis 23484]

43 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

The data shows there's one outlier in fatality rate for the 15 hardest hit states.  Our fatality is rate is incredibly and most likely artificially low. 

And also, a CFR requires a numerator and a denominator.  If testing is driving lower numbers of fatalities attributed to COVID, it is also driving lower number of cases identified. Do they balance out?  Probably to a significant extent.  If we are suppressing our CFR we are suppressing deaths but not cases.  What would that actually look like? Sincere question.  

[TwiceHorn 31534]

2 hours ago, GRHorn said:

So for argument’s sake let’s say the level of falsehoods and their severity are similar between Trump and China regarding the Coronavirus, even though I may disagree. 
 

I don’t read WaPo everyday, but I feel safe going on a limb and saying every statement Trump or any government official has made has been dissected and questioned thoroughly. That being the case, why would WaPo give China and the CCP preferential treatment over our own government, wrong as they may be?  
 

Maybe you’re right and Jennifer Rubin will be out next week with a column trashing the Chinese ambassador or maybe even questioning him/China? First she would have to stop fellating Andrew Cuomo. 

They duly report what Trump says or does in a factual manner. That's news.

Where there are verifiable facts that he misrepresents, they point it out, and then they have opinion pieces that shit on his similar self-aggrandizing word salad.  These usually follow his statements by a day or two or three.

If they don't publish something countering the Ambassador's assertions, I'd be surprised and I'd question that. From any paper. 

Even still, there's some value in publishing the tripe China is willing to put on record in a major US newspaper, even without critique.  Those of us even marginally aware of the facts of the matter are aware that it's bullshit of the purest ray serene.

It's only people who have decided to swallow everything, hook, line and sinker, that their preferred media outlets spew that are "injured" by this publication.  For the most part, they don't read WaPo.  Fake news, you know.

 

Edited May 8, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Biff Tannen 45728]

8 hours ago, 4th&Five said:

 

I fully admit to not getting past even the first sentence in that quote before quoting and posting the following. It’s just how my brain works. 
 

 

[GRHorn 105]

49 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

I appreciate your efforts to both sides this but you need to pay Anastasis for some tutoring...

And get this - forget columns in newspapers - Nobody’s got time for readin...you can actually be totally full of shit and get a whole god damned show...on primetime.  Hit up FoxNews brother...

This is deflection. 
 

Again, are you putting WaPo on same level as Fox News? Ok.

Also, why do they give preferential to the CCP versus other American leaders like Trump that are full of shit? 
 

Nobody has answered that for me. 

 

[GRHorn 105]

30 minutes ago, RPM said:

Maybe you should stick to news that's more to your liking. I hear OANN is tailored to your needs.

OANN is stupid. I’m asking specifically why WaPo gives a pass to hostile Chinese leaders relative to our own. 
 

Is it just TDS? Or something more? Worth thinking about. 

[Biff Tannen 45728]

3 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

OANN is stupid. I’m asking specifically why WaPo gives a pass to hostile Chinese leaders relative to our own. 
 

Is it just TDS? Or something more? Worth thinking about. 

I wasn’t sure what TDS was and I didn’t want to assume, so I went to the google machine and this was the first result. 
 

TOP DEFINITION

TDS

Trump Dick Sucker: Any fucktard that thinks that a misogynistic, racist rapist who ignores the law and encourages his sheep to commit to violence (not to mention is a terrible businessman) would be good for the US.

[elfenix 34332]

Axl's response is...I don't know what he's saying.
 
      Axl Rose   @axlrose · 8h   Replying to @stevenmnuchin1 My bad I didn’t get we’re hoping 2 emulate Liberia’s economic model but on the real unlike this admin I’m not responsible for 70k+ deaths n’ unlike u I don’t hold a fed gov position of responsibility 2 the American people n’ go on TV tellin them 2 travel the US during a pandemic.

I'm impressed with axl's level of commitment to the "n'" branding

[RPM 26352]

If you don't let the other guy open his mouth and show you how stupid he is, you won't know. There's a thing called the 1st Amendment (I know you think they started at 2nd and stopped, but they didn't). 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

4 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

OANN is stupid. I’m asking specifically why WaPo gives a pass to hostile Chinese leaders relative to our own. 
 

Is it just TDS? Or something more? Worth thinking about. 

It’s okay guys, he’s just asking questions you see.

[GRHorn 105]

whoops. 

Edited May 8, 2020 by GRHorn

[RPM 26352]

You really are a broken record. Scroll up.

[GRHorn 105]

24 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

They duly report what Trump says or does in a factual manner. That's news.

Where there are verifiable facts that he misrepresents, they point it out, and then they have opinion pieces that shit on his similar self-aggrandizing word salad.  These usually follow his statements by a day or two or three.

If they don't publish something countering the Ambassador's assertions, I'd be surprised and I'd question that. From any paper. 

Even still, there's some value in publishing the tripe China is willing to put on record in a major US newspaper, even without critique.  Those of us even marginally aware of the facts of the matter are aware that it's bullshit of the purest ray serene.

It's only people who have decided to swallow everything, hook, line and sinker, that their preferred media outlets spew that are "injured" by this publication.  For the most part, they don't read WaPo.  Fake news, you know.

 

I appreciate that you are at least honest in your response, even if we disagree. These other people just avoid the point. I’ll be following. If you see a correction or something that addresses it that I miss, tag me. Thanks. 

[GRHorn 105]

30 minutes ago, RPM said:

Maybe you should stick to news that's more to your liking. I hear OANN is tailored to your needs.

OANN is stupid. I’m asking specifically why WaPo gives a pass to hostile Chinese leaders relative to our own. 
 

Is it just TDS? Or something more? Worth thinking about. 

[RPM 26352]

OK, I'm going to chalk this up to board borkage and not ankle humping.

Edited May 8, 2020 by RPM
borked

[RPM 26352]

.

Edited May 8, 2020 by RPM
Fix this shit, Rich!

[justhookit 4191]

12 hours ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

i saw a brief exchange on the DT covid thread...i believe it was @justhookit that posted pics of the crowded beaches near his house. someone responded that it was fake news and designed to fit a certain narrative and that it should be ignored.

flabbergasted.

Yeah to be fair though I think it was stork56087654 or whatever that responded. He’s an idoit. It got a few rep points and only  a few others commented separate of that saying telephoto lenses are deceiving. 

I posted 4 pictures, 2 I took myself from the beach road of the cars parked 2-3 feet apart with many double parked one behind another. I didn’t do it but I could have taken those same pictures for miles on the beach. I’ll take some more this weekend.

the only agenda here is stork’s. I simply posted the pics to show that the beach is really fucking crowded and therefore the stores and restaurants here in town are really really really fucking crowded. No comment necessary. It’s been better - less crowded - the last few days but things have started picking up tonight.

I’m good with the general idea of the beach being open even if I find it silly that last week I couldn’t legally go sit on the beach by myself, but this week I can do it with 50 friends in a tent. The bigger issue is 50,000 or more extra people in a town that has roughly 3,000 full time residents. I don’t think Austin  would want 10 or 20  or 40 million people coming in to visit next weekend and cramming into what restaurants are open, taking the family of 7 into the convenience store, and buying most of the food in the grocery store. The only people here wearing masks are locals and a very, very small percentage of tourists. We had 7 cases with no new ones as of 3 weeks ago so I’ll hope that warm weather is a good thing and most of these assholes aren’t bringing this shit down here.

Edited May 8, 2020 by justhookit

[elfenix 34332]

Setting aside any media bias, I could see a paper making a valid decision to let the Chinese Ambassador to the US publish an editorial.  That seems completely legit.

Now, if/when the editorial is filled with verifiable untruths and not just shadings, opinions, and subjectivity, what do you do?

But, upon reading that, what the Ambassador says are shadings, opinions, and subjectivity.  You can vehemently disagree with it, and be pretty close to right, but those are ultimately unverifiable laudatory statements.  The kind Trump makes every single day.

It's an opinion piece.  He's full of shit.  Big fucking deal.  Fox does worse every day and forget OANN.

I wouldn't be surprised if WaPo publishes a counter within the week.  That's the way editorial pages work.

WaPost would never publish an opinion column critical of China. The Jeff Bezos WaPost is completely in the tank for China. Something like this totally couldn't happen:

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/china-has-turned-to-bullying-to-avoid-accountability-it-may-be-working-on-europe/2020/04/30/30be39c2-8977-11ea-9dfd-990f9dcc71fc_story.html

 

 

CHINA’S EFFORT to avoid accountability for the novel coronavirus pandemic through a global propaganda campaign seems to be doing as much harm as good for Beijing. Attempts by government officials and state media to cast blame on the United States or other Western countries for the origin and spread of the virus have triggered a backlash; deliveries of humanitarian supplies have led to reports about their poor quality.

 

Rather than retreat, President Xi Jinping’s regime has turned to a familiar tactic: bullying. Its diplomats are demanding that governments offer praise for China’s handling of the epidemic or censor reports on its failings, and they are threatening consequences if their requirements are not met. Disturbingly, this tactic appears to be working with the European Union.

 

[GW Hayduke 1953]

6 hours ago, GRHorn said:

OANN is stupid. I’m asking specifically why WaPo gives a pass to hostile Chinese leaders relative to our own. 
 

Is it just TDS? Or something more? Worth thinking about. 

It is obvious you don’t have much experience reading newspapers and instead are in a right-wing information bubble.

Consider closing twitter and Facebook and breitbart and limiting your time on Fox News. Check out PBS News Hour. It’s free and online. Only an hour a day. Fold in some NPR. Buy the local paper. The Statesman if you live in Austin. Finally, mix in some WSJ and Post.   

What you will notice is that there are factual news based reporting and separate from that are opinion editorials. That separation is key. Once you are able to see the separation in reputable journalism outlets, you will then be able to notice that Fox News blurs that seperation to the point that a Fox News consumer (such as yourself) didn’t even know News/opinion separation was a thing.

[gmr548 16612]

2) who is more hostile to our country’s interests? Someone like Mike Huckabee or a CCP mouthpiece like the Ambassador?

Is this supposed to have an obvious answer?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

[NWBuck 8585]

10 hours ago, GRHorn said:

2) who is more hostile to our country’s interests? Someone like Mike Huckabee or a CCP mouthpiece like the Ambassador?

Well, in some ways they're both responsible for lines of misinformation and deception of the American people, supporting a corrupt administration, and presenting a skewed vision of their country. 

Edited May 8, 2020 by NWBuck

[Bozo_Casanova 26540]

On 5/6/2020 at 10:58 PM, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

I'll take Douchebag Mouth Fart for a hundred, Alex.

This isn’t my style but I appreciate the craftsmanship.

[lemonlime 5503]

Our dumb ass, lying neighbor set the fire. So let’s not call the fire department. Let’s just watch it burn and bitch about the neighbor. It doesn’t fucking matter if the fire department ever shows up, if our kids, pets, or parents die in the fire, because, hey, it’s all dumbass neighbor’s fault.

[Aqua Buddha 14608]

[Bozo_Casanova 26540]

10 hours ago, GRHorn said:

You mean if I write a column that’s completely full of shit they’ll print it? Probably not.

I take it you’ve never read a letter to the editor.

[Bozo_Casanova 26540]

7 hours ago, justhookit said:

Yeah to be fair though I think it was stork56087654 or whatever that responded. He’s an idoit. It got a few rep points and only  a few others commented separate of that saying telephoto lenses are deceiving. 

I posted 4 pictures, 2 I took myself from the beach road of the cars parked 2-3 feet apart with many double parked one behind another. I didn’t do it but I could have taken those same pictures for miles on the beach. I’ll take some more this weekend.

the only agenda here is stork’s. I simply posted the pics to show that the beach is really fucking crowded and therefore the stores and restaurants here in town are really really really fucking crowded. No comment necessary. It’s been better - less crowded - the last few days but things have started picking up tonight.

I’m good with the general idea of the beach being open even if I find it silly that last week I couldn’t legally go sit on the beach by myself, but this week I can do it with 50 friends in a tent. The bigger issue is 50,000 or more extra people in a town that has roughly 3,000 full time residents. I don’t think Austin  would want 10 or 20  or 40 million people coming in to visit next weekend and cramming into what restaurants are open, taking the family of 7 into the convenience store, and buying most of the food in the grocery store. The only people here wearing masks are locals and a very, very small percentage of tourists. We had 7 cases with no new ones as of 3 weeks ago so I’ll hope that warm weather is a good thing and most of these assholes aren’t bringing this shit down here.

Hmmmm. Your post sounds political. 

[Okie State 3847]

This is what blows my mind about conspiracy theorists. All of your sources are always wrong and all of theirs are right.