CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk

[safe sex 12047]

4 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Shit.  Did I miss something?  Are you in the Covid Club?

I can tell you probably by the end of next week when I get my test results back! But I was deep in the plaguelands for three shifts last week, and N95s sure don't hold a seal very well after using them more than once and being covered in face sweat.

(Not that N95s even fully protect you from breathing in viral particles)

Edited May 23, 2020 by trauma babe

[GRHorn 105]

I need to say I agreed with the initial shutdown, but I have to admit this is an interesting breakdown of the economic effect of past pandemics compared to what we’re experiencing today. 
 

A couple interesting paragraphs here  

 

The 1918–19 pandemic, which caused an astounding ten times as many deaths per million as the 1957–58 pandemic, also failed to produce economic disaster. Although the US entered the 1918–19 pandemic in poor economic shape thanks to the Great War, according to economists Efraim Benmelech and Carola Frydman,

 

 

In reality, the experience of the 1957–58 pandemic—or even the 1918–19 pandemic—gives us no reason to believe that joblessness should be increasing at unprecedented rates and that GDP would collapse by catastrophic levels. In a modern industrialized economy, that sort of economic damage is only achievable through government intervention, such as socialist coups, wars, and forced economic shutdowns in the name of combating disease.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

The economic disaster is due to incompetence and negligence of the Trump Administration.  Full stop. The world’s greatest superpower doesn’t allow a virus like this to spread among its population.  This is a 3rd world government response.  Welcome to shithole America.

[jimmyjazz 47358]

9 minutes ago, trauma babe said:

I can tell you probably by the end of next week when I get my test results back! But I was deep in the plaguelands for three shifts last week, and N95s sure don't hold a seal very well after using them more than once and being covered in face sweat.

(Not that N95s even fully protect you from breathing in viral particles)

Did you get sick?

[Underdog 29248]

21 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

Indeed

 

Classic stuff,  heard that bit on radio recently. 

[Snake Diggity 4749]

15 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

I need to say I agreed with the initial shutdown, but I have to admit this is an interesting breakdown of the economic effect of past pandemics compared to what we’re experiencing today. 
 

A couple interesting paragraphs here  

 

The 1918–19 pandemic, which caused an astounding ten times as many deaths per million as the 1957–58 pandemic, also failed to produce economic disaster. Although the US entered the 1918–19 pandemic in poor economic shape thanks to the Great War, according to economists Efraim Benmelech and Carola Frydman,

 

 

In reality, the experience of the 1957–58 pandemic—or even the 1918–19 pandemic—gives us no reason to believe that joblessness should be increasing at unprecedented rates and that GDP would collapse by catastrophic levels. In a modern industrialized economy, that sort of economic damage is only achievable through government intervention, such as socialist coups, wars, and forced economic shutdowns in the name of combating disease.

Dangerous, stupid, hindsight bullshit.  Of course the lockdown caused the unemployment rate to skyrocket.  The choice at the time was locking down vs a virus the decision makers didn’t really know much about.  Now that we know more about how it spreads, who it attacks, and how deadly it is, the decision is different (hence most places starting to open up).  We got lucky.  This thing could have spread much easier and been far more deadly.  Unfortunately that luck gives dumbfucks like people who write those articles a leg to stand on.  Were this thing more deadly/contagious than the pandemics referenced in the article, there would be no such narrative.  The people deciding whether or not to lock down didn’t have the benefit of hindsight.

Edited May 23, 2020 by Snake Diggity

[safe sex 12047]

15 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Did you get sick?

Nausea, fatigue, malaise, but nothing respiratory so far thankfully. Low grade temp. I'm still able taste whatever I'm stress eating, which is nice. 

[GRHorn 105]

32 minutes ago, trauma babe said:

I can tell you probably by the end of next week when I get my test results back! But I was deep in the plaguelands for three shifts last week, and N95s sure don't hold a seal very well after using them more than once and being covered in face sweat.

(Not that N95s even fully protect you from breathing in viral particles)

What’s the protocol? How long do they wait before you take each test?

[Gatorubet 30806]

1 hour ago, trauma babe said:

Who's got two thumbs, two tits, and is furloughed from work pending a decrease of symptoms and two negative COVID tests at least twenty-four hours apart? 

If it was shift work at Chernobyl General, you might have three tits now.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

3rd world government response 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13643]

32 minutes ago, Underdog said:

Classic stuff,  heard that bit on radio recently. 

How anyone makes a semicolon hilarious, I don't know, but he did.

[GRHorn 105]

30 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The economic disaster is due to incompetence and negligence of the Trump Administration.  Full stop. The world’s greatest superpower doesn’t allow a virus like this to spread among its population.  This is a 3rd world government response.  Welcome to shithole America.

You can blame Trump for a lot, but the economic disaster in its current state is almost totally due to the initial shutdown that 99% of people supported. 
 

38 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

Dangerous, stupid, hindsight bullshit.  Of course the lockdown caused the unemployment rate to skyrocket.  The choice at the time was locking down vs a virus the decision makers didn’t really know much about.  Now that we know more about how it spreads, who it attacks, and how deadly it is, the decision is different (hence most places starting to open up).  We got lucky.  This thing could have spread much easier and been far more deadly.  Unfortunately that luck gives dumbfucks like people who write those articles a leg to stand on.  Were this thing more deadly/contagious than the pandemics referenced in the article, there would be no such narrative.  The people deciding whether or not to lock down didn’t have the benefit of hindsight.

I have a feeling the libertarians at Mises Institute were in the 1% against the initial lockdown but whatever. I question why this article is so upsetting to you. 

[henrygandorf 29230]

1 minute ago, GRHorn said:

You can blame Trump for a lot, but the economic disaster in its current state is almost totally due to the initial shutdown that 99% of people supported. 

well we thought he was going to use the shutdown to actually do something.

we bought him a lot of time, and then he stuffed it all in his pocket with a hole in the bottom.  but yes, let's blame the people who supported not dying.

[F250 29214]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

This would be the Sunday to drive around and determine which churches not to join. 

Or you could just sleep in an not attend any.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Just now, GRHorn said:

46 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

You can blame Trump for a lot, but the economic disaster in its current state is almost totally due to the initial shutdown that 99% of people supported. 

This is like saying the Holocaust was really the fault of a few Nazis that decided to exterminate some Jews, Hitler had little to do with it. 
 

There never would have been a shutdown if we contained the virus abroad.  We didn’t even attempt to do that.  We knew it was coming, we knew it could be bad, Trump called it a hoax. He’s responsible for the consequences of said hoax.

[F250 29214]

Just now, henrygandorf said:

well we thought he was going to use the shutdown to actually do something.

we bought him a lot of time, and then he stuffed it all in his pocket with a hole in the bottom.  but yes, let's blame the people who supported not dying.

This X10000

 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13643]

7 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

You can blame Trump for a lot, but the economic disaster in its current state is almost totally due to the initial shutdown that 99% of people supported.

That 99 percent would include Trump. Except not when he didn't. And also not when he did. If he were president, he could have demonstrated how he would have handled it.

[F250 29214]

I saw Rebekah Jones on the news tonight discussing her refusal to cover up data. I've worked with a ton of data scientists and never seen one that looks like she does.

[jimmyjazz 47358]

15 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

You can blame Trump for a lot, but the economic disaster in its current state is almost totally due to the initial shutdown that 99% of people supported. 

Well, that's just stupid.  For starters, the oil price war between Saudi and Russia was already causing massive disruption before CV19 became a big issue here in the US.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13643]

...and he gets all the fucking pre-pandemic credit for flattening the GDP and job creation curve he inherited for a mere additional trillion dollar deficit cost. The guy was and continued to be a disaster under optimal circumstances.

Edited May 23, 2020 by Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand

[WhatTheBuck 28943]

7 hours ago, horn4life said:

Weill happy Memorial day weekend all!  I will stick with the book cover theming.  If you have ever read this book, can you honestly argue that even the Merry Pranksters would have handled this virus better than Trump's "very best people..."

I'd take Ken Babbs over anyone in Trump's administration.

Also, "President Intrepid Traveller" kind of has a nice ring to it. 

Edited May 23, 2020 by WhatTheBuck

[Horn Dog 10193]

46 minutes ago, trauma babe said:

Nausea, fatigue, malaise, but nothing respiratory so far thankfully. Low grade temp. I'm still able taste whatever I'm stress eating, which is nice. 

Hopefully its just stress/anxiety and you don’t get sick.  I have had vague similar symptoms after every shift for about 2 months now that come and go with no fever and  repeated neg tests.  With that said, I have not actually worked in the COVID unit. 

[BradInATX 9208]

26 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

You can blame Trump for a lot, but the economic disaster in its current state is almost totally due to the initial shutdown that 99% of people supported. 
 

I have a feeling the libertarians at Mises Institute were in the 1% against the initial lockdown but whatever. I question why this article is so upsetting to you. 

How's Sweden's economy looking these days?

[otisdog 365]

12 minutes ago, F250 said:

I saw Rebekah Jones on the news tonight discussing her refusal to cover up data. I've worked with a ton of data scientists and never seen one that looks like she does.

Go on....

[Snake Diggity 4749]

25 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

You can blame Trump for a lot, but the economic disaster in its current state is almost totally due to the initial shutdown that 99% of people supported. 
 

I have a feeling the libertarians at Mises Institute were in the 1% against the initial lockdown but whatever. I question why this article is so upsetting to you. 

It’s upsetting because it’s the most insidious kind of misinformation.  It’s not blatantly false, but totally (and likely intentionally) misleading.

[GRHorn 105]

18 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

This is like saying the Holocaust was really the fault of a few Nazis that decided to exterminate some Jews, Hitler had little to do with it. 
 

There never would have been a shutdown if we contained the virus abroad.  We didn’t even attempt to do that.  We knew it was coming, we knew it could be bad, Trump called it a hoax. He’s responsible for the consequences of said hoax.

This is such a stupid comment it takes my breath away. 

Trump was dumb when he called it a hoax. He was also a xenophobe when he halted travel from China. 

How many people were saying in January that this was an impending disaster? Spoiler: not many. 

I’ve linked talks here from epidemiologists that said basically given the R0, and time it took to realize it was droplet spread, and Chinese New Year travel, that it was essentially uncontainable. 
 

But FolLow the SciEncE.  
 

24 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

well we thought he was going to use the shutdown to actually do something.

we bought him a lot of time, and then he stuffed it all in his pocket with a hole in the bottom.  but yes, let's blame the people who supported not dying.

The vast majority of the economic damage thus far is from the initial mandated shutdown. That’s obvious. 

[GRHorn 105]

2 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

It’s upsetting because it’s the most insidious kind of misinformation.  It’s not blatantly false, but totally (and likely intentionally) misleading.

How is it misleading?

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13643]

17 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

How many people were saying in January that this was an impending disaster? Spoiler: not many. 

I’ve linked talks here from epidemiologists that said basically given the R0, and time it took to realize it was droplet spread, and Chinese New Year travel, that it was essentially uncontainable. 
 

The "not many" excludes almost all expertise whose livelihoods are dedicated, not to garnering attention and adulation, but actually being versed in the subject matter.

Contain doesn't equal constrain- as in an order of magnitude- and there's a plethora of examples that illustrate that.

Edited May 23, 2020 by Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand

[BradInATX 9208]

26 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

The vast majority of the economic damage thus far is from the initial mandated shutdown. That’s obvious. 

Can you show your work on this one? Do you have any facts to put behind this?

Edited May 23, 2020 by BradInATX

[GRHorn 105]

11 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

The "not many" excludes almost all expertise whose livelihoods are dedicated, not to garnering attention and adulation, but actually being versed in the subject matter.

Contain doesn't equal constrain- as in an order of magnitude- and there's a plethora of examples that illustrate that.

Like who? There’s examples throughout media, both political parties, the WHO, Chinese media all downplaying it. 
 

The number one vector for the virus entering the Us was travel from Europe into NYC. Halting European travel when we halted Chinese would’ve been the correct move. Almost no one supported such a move. If you have evidence to the contrary let me see it. 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13643]

2 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Like who? 

The previous goddamn administration who went beyond playing Monday morning qb and was proactive taking measures without regard to who would ultimately get the credit but with the future interest of the country in mind.

 

That's who.

[GRHorn 105]

9 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Can you show your work on this one? Do you have any facts to put behind this?

Hmmm. Hold on it’s gonna take a while. 

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/UNRATE/

 

 

[BradInATX 9208]

8 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Hmmm. Hold on it’s gonna take a while. 

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/UNRATE/

 

 

 

What do you think this proves? It doesn't prove anything. Unemployment rate is one metric amongst a zillion that show economic health. Sweden's economy is in the shitter just like ours, and they've been the loosest country in the modern world with restrictions. 

There's exactly zero hard evidence that proves anything that you're saying. In fact, the early returns show the opposite - that leaving things open won't save your economy. https://nationalpost.com/news/world/sweden-in-deep-economic-crisis-as-per-capita-deaths-rise-despite-soft-lockdown

I'm not making any case for or against the shutdown. I'm just pointing out that you're stating your opinion as some sort of fact, when so far it looks likely that you're completely wrong.

Edited May 23, 2020 by BradInATX

[RPM 26686]

3 hours ago, Lobo said:

Wait until both sides realize the "AK church" was not in Arkansas.  Are we just in a race to the bottom at this point?  

Also-Yamiche Alcindor is the best name I've heard today.  There are not enough Haitians turning to Islam during this pandemic who can still provide good journalism.  

 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13643]

Lol. 

[TwiceHorn 32119]

11 hours ago, Bateshorn said:

In a vacuum, your correct. The problem is, this line Of thought is fraught with historical racial overtones.  Reagan’s attacks on welfare queens wasn’t directed across racial lines.  It focused on a single demographic.  Moreover there are terms in modern language to describe this behavior (which I will not repeat, but I’m sure people know) which specifically use a racial epithet. 
 

One has to condition this argument from the outset to separate it from race.  

Well, as mentioned, WhatTheBuck was the original poster of the topic and I feel relatively confident that he wasn't dog whistling.

Personally, I have some disdain for profligate spenders who are capable of saving.  That generally doesn't include the underclass, whom I assume are forced to live paycheck to paycheck by "coercion" and circumstances largely beyond their control.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[Bullneck 19605]

1 hour ago, GRHorn said:

You can blame Trump for a lot, but the economic disaster in its current state is almost totally due to the initial shutdown that 99% of people supported. 
 

I have a feeling the libertarians at Mises Institute were in the 1% against the initial lockdown but whatever. I question why this article is so upsetting to you. 

I think I can blame Trump for the economic disaster because he didn't have a plan or response team in place for something pretty much everyone could see coming.  Yes, that's right. 

It's May 23rd and I believe he STILL doesn't have a plan.  So, yeah, that's on him.  

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20956]

Holy shit! This is what you guys in Texas are up against.  This is a Bexar County GOP official. Note that she weighs probably 250 .lbs. Note how fat all of the people applauding her are. Doesn't this beg so many questions, like why, if the Coronavirus is a hoax perpetrated by the Democrats,  the Republican governor of Texas shut down the state. 
 

Beto won nearly 60% of Bexar County in 2018. 

 

Edited May 23, 2020 by Horn Under a Bad Sign

[Bullneck 19605]

49 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Like who? There’s examples throughout media, both political parties, the WHO, Chinese media all downplaying it. 
 

The number one vector for the virus entering the Us was travel from Europe into NYC. Halting European travel when we halted Chinese would’ve been the correct move. Almost no one supported such a move. If you have evidence to the contrary let me see it. 

Dude, pull your head out of your ass.  The team Obama left were there to "support that move."  Aren't you paying attention?

Quote

In May 2018, the top White House official in charge of the U.S. response to pandemics left the administration. Rear Admiral Timothy Ziemer was the senior director of global health and biodefense on the National Security Council and oversaw global health security issues, a specialty that had been bolstered under President Barack Obama.

After Ziemer’s departure, the global health team was reorganized as part of an effort by then-National Security Adviser John Bolton. Meanwhile, Tom Bossert, a homeland security adviser who recommended strong defenses against disease and biological warfare, was reportedly pushed out by Bolton in 2018. Neither White House official or their teams, which were responsible for coordinating the U.S. response to pandemic outbreaks across agencies, have been replaced during the past two years.

In November 2019, a bipartisan group of lawmakers and experts formally recommended that health security leadership on the NSC should be restored. And on Feb. 18, 2020, a group of 27 senators sent a letter to current National Security Adviser Robert O’Brien to ask him to appoint a new global health security expert to the NSC.

 

[pyrohornIII 4851]

 

2 hours ago, trauma babe said:

Nausea, fatigue, malaise, but nothing respiratory so far thankfully. Low grade temp. I'm still able taste whatever I'm stress eating, which is nice. 

Fourloughed with sick leave or nah?  Hope it clears soon!

[TexArcher 39080]

1 hour ago, GRHorn said:

The vast majority of the economic damage thus far is from the initial mandated shutdown. That’s obvious.

The majority of the economic damage thus far is because we waited too long to quarantine and we didn't have a plan for it, we don't have a plan to come out of it, and we have a blithering idiot at the wheel.  Markets don't like uncertainty.  Case in point: the drop of about 10k points happened during the initial uncertainty and inaction, and since then, there's been a rally of about 5k points during the quarantine.  So you can't blame it all on the quarantine when some of it was worse before.

The unemployment hit was also greatly exacerbated by the president's inaction back in February and March.  He delayed economic aid to small businesses because he pretended nothing was wrong.

And the fact that we've had to quarantine longer, also directly caused by the president's inaction in February and March, has made the economy worse on every possible front.

Your Idiot-In-Chief tried to ignore the problem because he thought admitting there was a problem would hurt the economy.  And he, of course, because he's a bumbling fuck-up, hurt the economy worse than being honest and taking the necessary steps in a timely manner would have.

If you think this economic chaos was unavoidable and is therefore not the president's fault, then tell me: why are our economic woes worse than those in China and Europe, just like our death totals?  That ain't a coincidence.

Your boy fucked up.  Bigly.  Yugely.  Stop defending him on this or you're as big an idiot as he is.

Edited May 23, 2020 by TexArcher

[Bullneck 19605]

3 hours ago, Lurch said:

“Ed, how do you abbreviate Arkansas?" He said, "I don't know, just start spelling it, then quit!"
-Mitch Hedberg

Never mind, I was late by a couple of hours.

Edited May 23, 2020 by Bullneck

[jimmyjazz 47358]

1 hour ago, GRHorn said:

How many people were saying in January that this was an impending disaster? Spoiler: not many. 

February 5:

NPR "Fresh Air"

 

This was hardly the first.

Try to not be such a dipshit.  #dreaming

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[RPM 26686]

5 hours ago, trauma babe said:

Who's got two thumbs, two tits, and is furloughed from work pending a decrease of symptoms and two negative COVID tests at least twenty-four hours apart? 

Hang in there TB. Hopefully, it's just a well deserved R&R before heading back into battle.

[Burt 4143]

2 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

He's got a shit show on his hands in Fargo. They've added 75 to 100 cases/day the past 3 or 4 days. 

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20956]

Pretty spot-on.  
 

 

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20956]

 

[Pig Bellmont 8888]

It’s a good thing states are on their own without a federal plan or resources. I’m sure we can trust the tracing efforts in Mississippi and Alabama to handle events like this