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CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk

Mrs Whiggins

By Mrs Whiggins
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staboner

staboner 4955

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5 hours ago, UpperWestside said:

I talked to a friend yesterday that is a doctor. She works at NY Presbyterian as a pediatrician and she worries about the spread of the virus to children because she feels we are not paying enough attention to that. She was really down and she is never like that. She told me there is so much misinformation out there about how this effects kids. I asked her if she gets out any and she said no. She works, gets groceries and stays home. I think she is going to lose a few friends over this because some of them refuse to wear masks and they had apparently went out as a group and sent her a picture of all of them without a mask on. I feel for her because she has to see the effects of Covid in that hospital, but to have friends who are indifferent to what is going on is just breaking her. I talked to her for a good hour and told her to just focus on herself because she is a great human being who cares deeply about children. This virus is just taking such a heavy toll on all of us. I hope we make it through having become better people who care more about those around us.

good luck to your friend. your last sentence reminded me of one of my favorite quotes of all time

"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a communist"

that disconnect is at an all time high in America in 2020 

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I'd just like to point out that neither myself nor any of my fellow nurses, fellow advanced nurse practitioners, and other healthcare providers ever swore an oath that we would lay down our lives for

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Welp, it finally happened. I snapped in public today. I went into work for a bit this morning because I’m trying to figure out the safest way to host physicians we are recruiting given our CV-19 sit

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I don't really know what to say anymore tbh. What happened last night is hard to put into words for anyone who hasn't worked in a hospital healthcare setting. Just unreal. Everyone is getting fucked.

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RomaVicta

RomaVicta 29756

Posted
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1 hour ago, Lobo said:

Say what you want about their war-mongering ideologies, at least the German marches in the 30's and 40's had a sense of pride about their appearance, the cadence of their step, and their accessorizing.  the group in that first video looks like someone barged into an indoor noodling competition and yelled, "Let's go y'all, get your guns, we gonna march on the Government!"  No organization, no pride, no consistent messaging, no theme to dress or signage, just a rag-tag walking stereotype of people who look like they don't walk enough in real life.  At least the SS had a cardio program.  

Fat, willfully ignorant fucksticks who see themselves as square-jawed, manly defenders of...god knows what.

It's all crazy.

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Mole

Mole 4318

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, BrickHorn said:

He’d rather cause death and poverty than lose a wedge issue. Trump is the worst kind of leader.

This right here. He’s failing the potted plant test. We’d be better off with a potted plant as president. An absence of leadership would be an improvement.

It isn’t really a political problem, at least as we’d traditionally consider it. When and how to reopen is a reasonable subject for political debate, and decent thoughtful people can come to very different conclusions. Same with how to manage the flailing economy and all sorts of other issues. 
 

It’s not a that Trump necessarily always makes bad decisions, it’s that his approach to leadership (cultivate division and confusion) undermines everything. Even if he were making wise decisions (and he surely isn’t) we’re so much worse off due to the manner in which he leads. 
 

The mask issue is a glaring example.

Edited by Mole
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HenryJames

HenryJames 65868

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3 hours ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

I've lost multiple friends over this and their support for Trump and it's been one of the best decisions I've ever made. I make a point of earnestly wishing them the best in life and that the door is always open to reconnect but any relationship has to be based on a basic, explicit shared value system that places the Golden Rule at the top of their priority list, and not their need for uniqueness, self-esteem, or "winning" some vague, internal status contest you were unaware you were an involuntary participant. There are things I miss about those relationships but the things I don't reconfirm I made the right decision and will likely have to make again with what is now a fraction of the trepidation. 

Can we talk about ethics in video game journalism?

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UpperWestside

UpperWestside 6104

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9 hours ago, burntorangebongos said:

Those people are not good friends to send a doctor a picture like that. Glad you were a good friend to her when she needed one.

She was pretty upset about it. The disregard for others really got to her, especially since it was good friends of hers. I called to check on her today and she was doing much better. I told her to watch The Man in the High Castle and she binged the first season today on her off day so that helped her out quite a bit with all of this.

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45513

Posted
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7 hours ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

I've lost multiple friends over this and their support for Trump and it's been one of the best decisions I've ever made. I make a point of earnestly wishing them the best in life and that the door is always open to reconnect but any relationship has to be based on a basic, explicit shared value system that places the Golden Rule at the top of their priority list, and not their need for uniqueness, self-esteem, or "winning" some vague, internal status contest you were unaware you were an involuntary participant. There are things I miss about those relationships but the things I don't reconfirm I made the right decision and will likely have to make again with what is now a fraction of the trepidation. 

There is quite literally no single person outside of blood relatives that I care if I ever see again.  I have some wonderful, close friends, but I hold them in high regard in no small part because of their values and their intellect, not in spite of their lack of those virtues.  I'll kick anyone to the curb if they exasperate me or fight me on what's important.  I've done it several times in the past decade and the pace is accelerating.

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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9931

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Happy Memorial Day to the families of heroes who paid the ultimate sacrifice. 

It is traditional for political sparring to slow down on Memorial Day. Reflect a little on what our heroes died for.  

They deserve our respect, as does this day that honors them. They died. 

And thank you to all in harm's way and their families on this Memorial Day. 

 

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Nivek

Nivek 16808

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8 hours ago, UpperWestside said:

She was pretty upset about it. The disregard for others really got to her, especially since it was good friends of hers. I called to check on her today and she was doing much better. I told her to watch The Man in the High Castle and she binged the first season today on her off day so that helped her out quite a bit with all of this.

does she need a friend?  

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23356

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Something most people probably don’t understand is the ONLY public defense mechanism from a pandemic is the Federal Government.
 

 State governments don’t have the resources to to have global pandemic teams and the private sector can only do so much.  It’s much like the military and their responsibilities. 

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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horn4life

horn4life 3753

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First off and foremost a salute to all those that have served our Country.  To those that gave the ultimate sacrifice, and the families that also felt the loss, my humble and heartfelt appreciation. It's is also wise to remember on this solemn day the importance of carefully and wisely exercise our military power. 

 

2nd wave now assured.

Well Trump's message is getting though perfectly to the sheep that insist LOUDLY that "we are not sheep!" Having listened to a college educated man enjoy a few beverages over the weekend I found out the following. 

1) They don't need to wear a mask, it's a hoax.  If they feel sick they will wear a mask.  - So they don't know the very basics of why this virus is more dangerous, BECAUSE of asymptomatic transmission by people that "don't feel sick."  This lack of basic knowledge by watching Fox and listening to Rush is staggering to a science based and informed person like myself.

2) The media won't even cover the virus once Biden is elected!  The news coverage will just disappear and so well the virus. 

3) Bill Gates has a patent (or trademark it was confusing) on the vaccine!  When I pointed out that there were dozens upon dozens of different entities trying to develop a vaccine, they simply is NOT a vaccine to patent.   Just false shit that was fed to the Fox/Rush herd.  But this college educated father honestly believes these falsehoods.

4) We are grossly over counting the virus.  People are being classified as dying form the virus when they had cirrhosis of the liver!  I counter we are grossly undercounting the virus, specifically in states with Republican Governors where the numbers are being purposefully deflated. Again giving specific examples.  The "I don't like your facts begins to arise."

5) It would be great if he could buy into Medicare early, because retirement young is so expensive because of the $18K a year cost for insurance coverage his retired buddy pays. It's a fairly legitimate number for a non-group family plan.  This is the fault of... wait for it... Obamacare!  It was supposed to fix all this!

6) We have to get the economy back open!  It was stupid to shut it down and it's the Dems fault.  I retort, "Well when you do the dumbest fucking things possible you aren't left with any good choices because of the dumb fucking choices you already made.  I never wanted to shut down the economy, but shitting the bed on testing was the problem and lack of pushing for PPE in January was malpractice."  Mumble, mumble response, to which I sarcastically respond. "I am a fucking genius!  I was smarter than anyone in the Trump administration! I saw this coming off news reports back in early January the SECOND I heard anything out of China I knew it was bad."    I think the reply was Obama... something cop board bare.

7) "I don't know anyone who has had the virus."  To which I respond, you will.  Especially if people are not careful.  I state that this will spread through rural communities, even though they live a normal life of self-isolation.  The older age and need for the occasional central gathering in these rural areas will provide the opportunity for a concentrated spread. In other words, it will be Republican areas next.  I think that visually it may potentially be worse in the rural areas, where reductions in medicare reimbursements have shuttered and removed so many hospital beds.  The young kids leave the rural areas so the populations are older and the hospital beds fewer. I point out the "good news" that a lot of those folks may die at home, and not be counted as coronavirus deaths, so that's good GOP news.

So we are going to have exactly the outcome we tried to avoid by shutting down the damn economy.  A monster second wave.  Folks are watching and emulating our Presidents example of 'no mask, no worries." Fox News and the talk radio hosts also hide safely and encourage that the masks are silliness.  So the Trump plan is to get everyone back to normal.  Just do what you would normally do, and a mask is for pussy Democrats.  Not going to a crowded church is for pussy Dems (snd the Trump family as a whole) we need folks to get out there and get the economy going. So expect all the glimmers of college football to disappear by August 1st.  Sucks that we had to go right back to the dumbest thing possible.  But when the President of the United States makes all his decisions without facts or knowledge, you get a lot of fucking stupid decisions.  I was hoping that I would lose some money on my shorting the market and buy back into a Bull Market and enjoy college football this Fall.  

Instead I am going to risk a hair more going short as 40% of our population believe the 7 things I listed above.  So we are going to act exactly as our President did during January and February, we are going to pretend that there is nothing wrong.  We could open up much more safely if everyone wore masks to PROTECT OTHERS.  But the message from the President is a mask is a form of political protest.  SO find a hobby, there won't be college football this fall. Unless you think parents letting their kids risk infection and infecting their families is a risk they are going to take? The reason?  Is too many people view NOT wearing a mask as some sort of a "non-sheep badge of honor" BECAUSE they (like our President) do not grasp the simple fact that they are gong to be a big part of the future spread. The saddest thing is that if our President would simply lead with a good mask wearing example this terrible isolation and economic damage might have been worth it, and we could truly start to mend.  We might have even been able to have college football (slim tough it may have been). Instead we are gonna see a lot of Facebook confessions from our right leaning friends as they do indeed "know somebody" touched by the virus.  Basically the virus is going to start touching white people, and white men in particular more broadly as we reopen.  Don't be surprised to see even Trump donning a mask after it's too late to set a good example. Sucks that it could have been so different.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 104465

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22 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

 

You know -- and take the American political angle out of it -- we're getting two different narratives about this drug.  One is that given as an EARLY intervention, it's helpful.  Another is that given as a therapy to seriously ill, hospitalized patients, it's actually harmful.  It seems possible that both are true, or that neither are true.  And I sure as shit don't know.  We like instant knowledge, and we're just not getting it here.  Such is the nature of these things.

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45513

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40 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

You know -- and take the American political angle out of it -- we're getting two different narratives about this drug.  One is that given as an EARLY intervention, it's helpful.  Another is that given as a therapy to seriously ill, hospitalized patients, it's actually harmful.  It seems possible that both are true, or that neither are true.  And I sure as shit don't know.  We like instant knowledge, and we're just not getting it here.  Such is the nature of these things.

The doctors and scientists who have the expertise to make that judgment sure seem to be overwhelmingly aligned with the "don't take it" line of thinking.  It's not like they all suddenly forgot to consider triplehorn's half dozen anecdotal studies of 11 patients in outer Bulgaria who magically got well by taking HCQ on day 1 of infection.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 104465

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5 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

The doctors and scientists who have the expertise to make that judgment sure seem to be overwhelmingly aligned with the "don't take it" line of thinking.  It's not like they all suddenly forgot to consider triplehorn's half dozen anecdotal studies of 11 patients in outer Bulgaria who magically got well by taking HCQ on day 1 of infection.

I don't disregard what you're saying.  But I also haven't seen (doesn't mean there isn't one) a study of HCQ given as an early intervention.  So, incomplete information.  Which is of course the story of this entire pandemic.

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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

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40 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

You know -- and take the American political angle out of it -- we're getting two different narratives about this drug.  One is that given as an EARLY intervention, it's helpful.  Another is that given as a therapy to seriously ill, hospitalized patients, it's actually harmful.  It seems possible that both are true, or that neither are true.  And I sure as shit don't know.  We like instant knowledge, and we're just not getting it here.  Such is the nature of these things.

Yes, absolutely it can be both.  This quote from the article in the tweet:

"The decision was made after an observational study was published in the medical journal The Lancet on Friday, which described how seriously ill Covid-19 patients who were treated with hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine were more likely to die."

and they add this:

“a cause-and-effect relationship between drug therapy and survival should not be inferred”

Here's a good counter-breakdown of the referenced Lancet article:

The total absence of discussion making the distinction between actual early application versus starting when hospitalization is needed is beyond head scratching.

 

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Gatorubet

Gatorubet 30064

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On 5/24/2020 at 2:48 PM, triplehorn said:

They used hamsters infected with covid to model transmission and concluded that masks confer an estimated 75% reduction in transmission.  The epidemiologic math shows that reducing social contacts by 80% (without masks) drops the R0 to below 1.0 and the virus fairly quickly stalls out and gets contained.  Basic mask wearing takes you a long way to achieving that sub-1.0 R0.  It just underscores that beating this virus can be done without a miracle of science and medicine with the right communication to all people

 

Where did they find the tiny little masks?

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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Her parents received the factual reports on viral mitigation, endorsed by even the Pope. 

Her parents received anti-bacterial wipes, sanitizer, and modern plumbing with which to wash their hands.

Her parents received in their community, several masks and social distancing orders, by which they could help others prevent their spread to their daughter. 

And then they all died.  

In heaven, they asked the Lord, our God, "How could you forsake us like that?  Your strongest, most faithful believers?  You left us to die with nothing?"  

And the Lord replied, "You fools, I sent you an official warning, cleaning technology, and masks. And you ignored them all.  That was me "covering you."  I can't cover for your ignorance any longer.  Your complacency is at an end."  

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