CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

20 minutes ago, bolverk said:

That's for the entire duration of the virus, including the initial outbreak before the lockdowns, dumbass. It's already been explained to you that does not capture the trend line over time. Looking at the average number of cases for the last week is a much more accurate reflection for where the various states stand at the moment.

Before we knew how to handle it and what the fuck was going on:

• Northeast Corridor & International Flights from Europe: NJ, NY, MA, CT, RI, DC
• Inland International Airports: MI, IL
• Mardi Gras: LA, MS

Late spring outbreak and learning the ropes: 

• Arizona

August outbreak following Sturgis fuckery:

• ND, SD

Let's now look at the last week:

State/Territory	Deaths in Last 7 Days per 100K
South Dakota	2.6
Iowa	2.2
North Dakota	2.1
Kansas	1.5
Nebraska	1.5
Illinois	1.4
Indiana	1.2
Michigan	1.2
Rhode Island	1.2
Wyoming	1.2

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases_deathsper100klast7days

Don't be a deliberate dumbass.

 

 

 

In addition, one of the reasons for the west coast early mitigation measures was not just due to the outbreak in Washington (state) but also because of the intl. travel coming into LA and many of the cruise ship passengers were housed there. Some were in other states, including Nebraska (due to their med center there). If you look at the graphs for hospitalizations, the west coast was able to keep their curve much flatter until just recently (when compared to Texas and Florida--states that had very steep trajectories in late June/July). Getting through this without fatalities was going to be impossible, but keeping the curve flatter so that people were not turned away from the hospital or staff unable to keep pace with patient care has been an important strategy all along. El Paso was flying patients across the state last month weren't they?

[Bama Chick 28596]

This is going to be rather important as Florida prosecutes the Covid data lady -

[Anastasis 23469]

26 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Don’t feel like getting into a pointless argument with you about it.

Clearly, which is why you brought the topic up. Just stop embarrassing yourself JDS. That would be a good start. 

[bolverk 29671]

27 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

In addition, one of the reasons for the west coast early mitigation measures was not just due to the outbreak in Washington (state) but also because of the intl. travel coming into LA and many of the cruise ship passengers were housed there. Some were in other states, including Nebraska (due to their med center there). If you look at the graphs for hospitalizations, the west coast was able to keep their curve much flatter until just recently (when compared to Texas and Florida--states that had very steep trajectories in late June/July). Getting through this without fatalities was going to be impossible, but keeping the curve flatter so that people were not turned away from the hospital or staff unable to keep pace with patient care has been an important strategy all along. El Paso was flying patients across the state last month weren't they?

Yeah, the availability of ICU beds still remains critically short in El Paso. Map of new data released by the DHHS and created by the NYTimes:

Article:

Spoiler

 

‘There’s No Place for Them to Go’: I.C.U. Beds Near Capacity Across U.S.

In El Paso, hospitals reported that just 13 of 400 intensive care beds were not occupied last week. In Fargo, N.D., there were just three. In Albuquerque, there were zero.

More than a third of Americans live in areas where hospitals are running critically short of intensive care beds, federal data show, revealing a newly detailed picture of the nation’s hospital crisis during the deadliest week of the Covid-19 epidemic.

Hospitals serving more than 100 million Americans reported having fewer than 15 percent of intensive care beds still available as of last week, according to a Times analysis of data reported by hospitals and released by the Department of Health and Human Services.

Many areas are even worse off: One in 10 Americans — across a large swath of the Midwest, South and Southwest — lives in an area where intensive care beds are either completely full, or fewer than 5 percent of beds are available. At these levels, experts say maintaining existing standards of care for the sickest patients may be difficult or impossible.

“There’s only so much our frontline care can offer, particularly when you get to these really rural counties which are being hit hard by the pandemic right now,” said Beth Blauer, director of the Centers for Civic Impact at Johns Hopkins University.

Sharp increases in Covid-19 patients can overwhelm smaller hospitals, she said. “This disease progresses very quickly and can get very ugly very fast. When you don’t have that capacity, that means people will die.”

The new dataset, released on Monday, marks the first time the federal government has published detailed geographic information on Covid-19 patients in hospitals, something public health officials have long said would be crucial to responding to the epidemic and understanding its impact.

Hospitalization figures collected by the Covid Tracking Project show that the number of people hospitalized with the virus nationwide has doubled since the beginning of November. But existing state-level figures have obscured vast differences within states, making it difficult to recognize local hot spots.

The new data shows that some areas — like Amarillo, Texas, Coral Gables, Fla., and Troy, Mich. — are seeing rates of serious illness from Covid-19 that approach the levels seen in New York City during the worst weeks of the spring.

Political leaders in many states are ramping up measures to try to slow the spread. Last week, California issued stay-at-home orders for regions where hospitals surpassed 85 percent intensive care occupancy. Gov. Michelle Lujan Grisham of New Mexico, where I.C.U.s are full across the state, is expected to soon announce that hospitals can ration care based on who is most likely to survive.

Doctors and researchers said the shortages are already causing serious damage.

In North Dakota, which for weeks this fall had the worst rate of infection per capita in the country, the number of unoccupied I.C.U. beds across the whole state at times dipped into the single digits in early November. In the small city of Minot, the local hospital, Trinity Health, devoted more than an entire floor of its six-floor hospital to coronavirus patients.

Other North Dakota hospitals would normally accept transfers to help ease the burden, but when Dr. Jeffrey Sather, chief of medical staff, called around for help, he found that everywhere else was also full.

Patients kept coming, piling up in his emergency room. “There’s no place for them to go,” he said at the time.

Survival rates from the disease have improved as doctors have learned which treatments work. But hospital shortages could reverse those gains, risking the possibility of increasing mortality rates once again as patients cannot receive the level of care they need.

Thomas Tsai, an assistant professor of health policy at Harvard University, said that when resources are critically constrained, healthcare workers already facing burnout are forced to make emotionally wrenching decisions about who receives care.

There is some evidence physicians are already limiting care, Dr. Tsai said. For the last several weeks, the rate at which Covid-19 patients are going to hospitals has started decreasing. “That suggests that there’s some rationing and stricter triage criteria about who gets admitted as hospitals remain full,” he said.

In California, where a shortage of hospital beds triggered a lockdown in much of the state by Monday, hospital workers are bracing for the next few months. More than 10,000 Covid-19 patients are now hospitalized in the state, more than 70 percent above levels of two weeks ago, and the effects of the Thanksgiving holiday may not have been fully felt yet.

At the University of California San Diego Medical Center, just nine intensive care beds were unoccupied on Monday. The mood in the hospital was one of resignation, said Dr. Chris Longhurst, associate chief medical officer. For months, health workers have watched much of the public ignore their advice to take precautions and avoid the spread of the virus, he said, and now, inevitably, they are seeing ever more people arriving sick at their door.

“A lot of healthcare workers have been concerned about this, about the lack of compliance, and now we’re seeing it play out, and you just sort of feel resigned,” he said. “You’ve got to go to work every day and help the people who need hospital care, but we wish that it had stopped upstream.”

So far, policymakers have relied heavily on data on testing and cases to make policy decisions, including whether schools and businesses should remain open. But the new, detailed data on hospitals may lead to a rapid shift in what leaders consider as they make decisions, Ms. Blauer, of Johns Hopkins, said.

“If you’re living in a place where there’s no I.C.U. bed for 100 miles, you have to be incredibly careful about the social interaction that you allow the community to take,” she said.

 

No big deal...

Edited December 10, 2020 by bolverk

[Sawbonz 27556]

2 hours ago, PassiveAggressiveCoach said:

Huh? Almost 20K cases just today. 

I’m starting to think you really are a coach

[Bama Chick 28596]

[Disco Strangler 1876]

6 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

 

Sid Miller: cunt*, and enemy of Texas BBQ.  Cosplay Texan.  Thoughts and prayers to him.

*even if you didn’t like Hillary, a real statesman should be able to refrain from tweeting that she was the ‘C’ word

[JimmyJames 12271]

42 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Clearly, which is why you brought the topic up. Just stop embarrassing yourself JDS. That would be a good start. 

I mistakenly thought you were still were a Republican. This was based on your posting history. Since you claim not to be, I’ll drop it. 

Is that a good start enough for you? 

[washparkhorn 9939]

2 hours ago, aggie08 said:

Also, as a resident, I can assure you that the lockdowns are nowhere near as draconian as I'm sure you envision.

facts.

[Cairn Horn88 8262]

34 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

 

That’s a shame.  Keep your hat on....you’ll be ok.

[Anastasis 23469]

14 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

I mistakenly thought you were still were a Republican. This was based on your posting history. Since you claim not to be, I’ll drop it. 

Is that a good start enough for you? 

Go troll somewhere else JDS. 

[washparkhorn 9939]

Pulled from the Sid Miller has Covid tweet - 

At this point we can rename it to republican virus.

Edited December 10, 2020 by washparkhorn

[jimmyjazz 45922]

4 hours ago, PassiveAggressiveCoach said:

Everywhere I go where I live people are masked up.  People are spaced out.  I do see the people here and there no wearing masks but I'd bet we are at +90% compliance. 

What planet do you live on?  I travel around Texas quite a bit and I'm guessing 40% compliance at best.

[JimmyJames 12271]

24 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Go troll somewhere else JDS. 

Nah. I’ll just stick around to the day you answer a single question posed to you. 
 

Might be awhile of course. 

[Anastasis 23469]

1 minute ago, JimmyJames said:

Nah. I’ll just stick around to the day you answer a single question posed to you. 
 

Might be awhile of course. 

Still trolling. I've already addressed the question that you would have known the answer in advance if you paid attention. You and triple are peas in a pod.  Creating an alternate reality where you can wallow in delusion. 

[bolverk 29671]

Ol' boy Sid jest needs ta go git him that there Jesus shot ta fix hisself up. That'll cure what ails him.

[Anastasis 23469]

9 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

What planet do you live on?  I travel around Texas quite a bit and I'm guessing 40% compliance at best.

I see pretty high levels of mask compliance, with the exceptions being outdoor activities where people let the guards down, but at no point am I seeing less than 80-90%.  That's across urban and rural areas.  I go into a feed store in semi-rural texas to pick up corn and everyone I see has masks on. I do see some dumbassery....like the guy have a very animated cell phone conversation in line at the True Value that needs to take his ass outside, but he at least had a mask on. 

[jimmyjazz 45922]

4 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I see pretty high levels of mask compliance, with the exceptions being outdoor activities where people let the guards down, but at no point am I seeing less than 80-90%.  That's across urban and rural areas.  I go into a feed store in semi-rural texas to pick up corn and everyone I see has masks on. I do see some dumbassery....like the guy have a very animated cell phone conversation in line at the True Value that needs to take his ass outside, but he at least had a mask on. 

I see horrible compliance in the Houston area, better in San Antonio and good compliance in Austin.  (Just today I had to go to the neighborhood UPS store, though, and sure enough I wasn't in that place with 2 other masked customers for a minute before some loudmouthed Karen barged in and tried to infect us all with whatever she wasn't masked up against.)

I do spend the majority of my time outside, though, so that probably explains some of it, but I'm telling you in Houston I'd say 75% of people completely ignore outdoor mask regulations.  I avoid indoors as much as humanly possible.

Edited December 10, 2020 by jimmyjazz

[Bama Chick 28596]

Mask compliance here is shit - maybe 60%?

And my hospital is absolutely swamped right now.

We have 103 inpatients currently in a 268 bed facility. We currently have an additional 21 PUIs. And the admission criteria has gotten more strict, so these patients are much sicker than the ones who were hospitalized in earlier waves.

We just had to convert our PACU to handle our ICU overflow.

We’ve canceled elective procedures again.

We’re scrambling to find competent locums physicians to come work for our ED and hospitalist group and we’re also using some of our surgeons for coverage there. We’ve put out a call for retired nurses and docs to come help.

This is the worst it’s been since the pandemic started and yet no leaders are even suggesting rolling back to the mitigation measures we had in place in the spring when we were running around 25 hospitalized cases.

I had to call the actual police today. A visiting family member was absolutely berating one of our staff who screens anyone coming in the hospital.

It’s madness and I’m afraid and I’m exhausted.

[honolulu horn 6158]

41 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

It’s madness and I’m afraid and I’m exhausted.

Hang in there. You're doing God's work. 

[Captainant 27661]

4 hours ago, JimmyJames said:

But at some point you have to take a stand as to what side you actually believe it.

Unless you believe in #bothsides

[Bookman 4639]

7 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

 

Sid Miller may die from this. He's fat as fuck. I was in an elevator with him a few years ago and he was breathing like he was about to keel over.

[DigglerontheHoof 21197]

9 hours ago, PassiveAggressiveCoach said:

The elitist attitude here is impressive. 

Almost as impressive as your stupidity.

[cactusflinthead 27598]

Denton has good compliance with wearing a mask indoors. Maybe it's just in town because the entire county was down to just 6 open ICU beds. 

My uncle going to the hospital for nearly a month has convinced the recalcitrant members of the family of the seriousness of it. Even the most stubborn outlaws are wearing something indoors and avoiding crowds.

[PassiveAggressiveCoach 118]

9 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

What planet do you live on?  I travel around Texas quite a bit and I'm guessing 40% compliance at best.

I live right outside Chicago. I am not exaggerating it is the exception and not the rule when I'm out to see a person without a mask. 

[PassiveAggressiveCoach 118]

9 hours ago, washparkhorn said:

Pulled from the Sid Miller has Covid tweet - 

At this point we can rename it to republican virus.

There are republicans eating bats in China? 🤣

Edited December 10, 2020 by PassiveAggressiveCoach

[Jiggy-Z 3432]

9 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

I see horrible compliance in the Houston area, better in San Antonio and good compliance in Austin.  (Just today I had to go to the neighborhood UPS store, though, and sure enough I wasn't in that place with 2 other masked customers for a minute before some loudmouthed Karen barged in and tried to infect us all with whatever she wasn't masked up against.)

I do spend the majority of my time outside, though, so that probably explains some of it, but I'm telling you in Houston I'd say 75% of people completely ignore outdoor mask regulations.  I avoid indoors as much as humanly possible.

I was in Brady, TX a few weeks ago on the way to go hunt, and the compliance I saw was about 50% including employees.

The big Sunoco gas station just outside of Llano was just as bad or worse.

My guess is that they have tightened up since then.

[Anastasis 23469]

In todays news from the medical industrial complex, here are the AdComm meeting materials and the stream.  Just started.

https://www.fda.gov/advisory-committees/advisory-committee-calendar/vaccines-and-related-biological-products-advisory-committee-december-10-2020-meeting-announcement

Here are the discussion and voting questions, the elusive answers to which need to be provided by a committee meeting before the FDA is apparently able to make the obvious action.

 

 

 

[workswithseed 2103]

14 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

Mask usage is not close to 90% and there are people gathering in greater numbers than recommended all over the place. Following dear leader’s and his moronic minions’ example. And the idiot dems with the do as I say not as I do are not helping

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/27/world/most-americans-have-been-wearing-masks-since-spring-the-cdc-says.html

Looks like there have been some studies showing it's closer to 90 than 60. I don't know if their big enough sample size, but it's a data point.

[PassiveAggressiveCoach 118]

11 hours ago, aggie08 said:

It's almost like they expect people with dissenting opinions to do the bare minimum to passably understand the data that they're presenting and the point that they think they're making.

What's my dissenting opinion? Have I been against masks or social distancing? I think the only thing I have spoke against is the closing of businesses or the limiting of those businesses through regulation. I think the cure can be worse than the disease especially when you see states with some of the strictest regulations regarding covid have cases exploding. Practice common sense practices with the goal being minimal impact upon businesses (jobs). High risk people should stay home as much as possible (elderly and high risk populations).  Median age of death I have seen in most states is 75-80.  Depending on the state but most I've seen is 80% of deaths are 70+.  

 

Edited December 10, 2020 by PassiveAggressiveCoach

[Anastasis 23469]

In the time that it took them to do the introductions, 30 people have died. 

[safe sex 11722]

NBD they were prob oldies anyway

[CowboyFred 1151]

Can’t seem to find where it was said/posted but my brother in law just messaged that 14% or Americans are now below the poverty line.  26K for a family of 4.  All this and we got fucking gop sacks of shit holding up relief because bitch mcconnel wants to include language granting immunity from lawsuits for corporations that knowingly endangered workers.

if I remember correctly it was Tyson that was placing bets on how many would get sick.  Fuck all those putos

[honolulu horn 6158]

1 hour ago, trauma babe said:

NBD they were prob oldies anyway

I keep wondering just how different compliance and "hoax belief" there would be if the virus killed kids instead of olds. 

[Sawbonz 27556]

2 hours ago, workswithseed said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/27/world/most-americans-have-been-wearing-masks-since-spring-the-cdc-says.html

Looks like there have been some studies showing it's closer to 90 than 60. I don't know if their big enough sample size, but it's a data point.

I’m not signing in to read it do you have a link to the actual study? My experience is that most people have a face covering on indoors and about half are wearing it correctly. Also there continue to be gatherings of family/friends who are not members of the same household without distancing and without mask usage. This was never only about mask usage

[Sawbonz 27556]

2 hours ago, PassiveAggressiveCoach said:

What's my dissenting opinion? Have I been against masks or social distancing? I think the only thing I have spoke against is the closing of businesses or the limiting of those businesses through regulation. I think the cure can be worse than the disease especially when you see states with some of the strictest regulations regarding covid have cases exploding. Practice common sense practices with the goal being minimal impact upon businesses (jobs). High risk people should stay home as much as possible (elderly and high risk populations).  Median age of death I have seen in most states is 75-80.  Depending on the state but most I've seen is 80% of deaths are 70+.  

 

Well you don’t believe covid has killed 250k + Americans or that it’s crippling the healthcare delivery of our country so it’s kind of hard to take anything else you say seriously 

[CowboyFred 1151]

3 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

I’m not signing in to read it do you have a link to the actual study? My experience is that most people have a face covering on indoors and about half are wearing it correctly. Also there continue to be gatherings of family/friends who are not members of the same household without distancing and without mask usage. This was never only about mask usage

1234.

thanksgiving cases are starting to hit.  San Antonio is about to shut down some more bars that “transitioned” to restaurants by offering food to get around the bar closures.  Can personally state from my experience that mask usage indoors at these bars or whatever is nowhere near even 50% that I’ve seen.  Since there are no real fines for non-compliance here, it’s just walk in with a mask but after that it’s pre-Covid in that bitch.

 Bolded: shit you not a buddy owns a few snack shops in San Antonio and recently sent our group chat a video of some lady walking into the place without a mask, walk to the counter, get a bunch of napkins and proceed to hold them over her mouth after he told her she needed a mask.  He told her she needed to leave the establishment and come back with a mask as her business is not worth the safety of his 2-3 employees at the store.  The selfishness of some people is fucking ridiculous.

[4th&Five 41538]

 

[Fudge Nuggets 19190]

1 hour ago, honolulu horn said:

I keep wondering just how different compliance and "hoax belief" there would be if the virus killed kids instead of olds. 

It wouldn’t mean shit. Sandy Hook proved that. 

[workswithseed 2103]

1 minute ago, Sawbonz said:

I’m not signing in to read it do you have a link to the actual study? My experience is that most people have a face covering on indoors and about half are wearing it correctly. Also there continue to be gatherings of family/friends who are not members of the same household without distancing and without mask usage. This was never only about mask usage

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/08/27/more-americans-say-they-are-regularly-wearing-masks-in-stores-and-other-businesses/

 

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/2020/10/poll-increasing-bipartisan-majority-americans-support-mask-wearing/

[bolverk 29671]

27 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

I’m not signing in to read it do you have a link to the actual study? My experience is that most people have a face covering on indoors and about half are wearing it correctly. Also there continue to be gatherings of family/friends who are not members of the same household without distancing and without mask usage. This was never only about mask usage

Here's the article and you're also right about the second part of your reply. Yeah, most folks will wear their masks (many incorrectly) in public. But when they get together with friends/family, they get complacent by either not social distancing or unmasking when in private places with them. That was certainly the case with my dad catching it when he got together with a group of friends, thinking it was fine because "we know them."

Quote

 

Most Americans have been wearing masks since spring, the C.D.C. says.

Despite President Trump’s very public resistance to mask-wearing for much of this year, a newly released survey from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention shows that a vast majority of Americans of all ages have been wearing face coverings since April.

The data, released in the agency’s weekly Morbidity and Mortality Report, is roughly in line with other polls showing that most Americans report wearing masks, at least when they are inside stores.

For example, Pew Research reported in August that 85 percent of 13,200  adults they surveyed said they wore masks in stores, up from 65 percent in June.

In a National Geographic poll released early this month, 92 percent of 2,200 Americans surveyed said they always or sometimes wore a mask when leaving the house.

The C.D.C. data, based on three monthly surveys with about 2,000 Americans each time, cover only the period from April to June.  

A C.D.C. spokesman attributed the delay in the release of the surveys findings because of “the overwhelming amount of research going on at the agency.”

The survey asked about six risk-mitigation behaviors: mask-wearing, hand-washing, keeping six feet away from others, canceling social activities, avoiding crowds and avoiding restaurants.

In general, the older respondents were, the more of those measures they took. But as early as April, 70 percent of all those aged 18 to 29 reported wearing masks, while 84 percent of those older than 60 did.

By June, 86 percent of young Americans said they were wearing them while 92 percent of the seniors said they were.

Frequent hand-washing or sanitizing was equally popular, but it dropped slightly among all age groups from April to June as scientists realized that the virus was more likely to be transmitted by a mist of tiny droplets than by picking it up from surfaces.

The least popular measures among all age groups were “canceling or postponing pleasure, social or recreational activities” and “avoiding all or some restaurants.”

In their analysis of the data, the authors observed: “Lower engagement in mitigation behaviors among younger adults might be one reason for the increased incidence of Covid-19 cases in this group, which have been shown to precede increases among those 60 years or older.”

The findings, the authors concluded, show the need for clear advice for Americans, “especially for young adults,” to protect themselves, including by wearing masks.

On Friday, Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, the nation’s top infectious disease expert, said on CNN that “if people are not wearing masks, then maybe we should be mandating it.”

 

 

[Sawbonz 27556]

8 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

 

When you’re a celebrity they let you do it. Walk right in, grab ‘em by the monoclonal antibodies 

[Sawbonz 27556]

9 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/08/27/more-americans-say-they-are-regularly-wearing-masks-in-stores-and-other-businesses/

 

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/2020/10/poll-increasing-bipartisan-majority-americans-support-mask-wearing/

Yeah I wouldn’t call either of those actual studies 

[jimmyjazz 45922]

2 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Yeah I wouldn’t call either of those actual studies 

Yeah, self-reporting seems pretty sketchy.  A *whole* lot of people are likely to say they always wear a mask (when they don't) than vice versa.

[bolverk 29671]

11 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Yeah, self-reporting seems pretty sketchy.  A *whole* lot of people are likely to say they always wear a mask (when they don't) than vice versa.

Yep. Again, like my parents, who always answered in the affirmative about whether they wear the masks to church, finally admitted upon further probing that they actually would only wear their masks while entering and exiting the sanctuary. But when they would arrive to their so-called isolated spot at the pew would remove their masks, because "it made it easier to sing."

Fucking infuriating idiocy.

[BradInATX 9208]

"I am totally being safe except when I take my kids to Wal Mart, school, and soccer practice. Also the girls' wine night at the bar but they're totally being safe too. Also Thanksgiving we had 40 people at our house but they have all been super safe like we have"

- Every Tahoe driving suburban mom in the universe.

[lemonlime 5503]

Yeah, it's not just the mask wearing.  I live in the Northeast, in an area that was hit hard during the first wave.  And the vast majority of people wear masks.  But cases are still skyrocketing again.  And based on my friends' timelines, they're just fine with Christmas parties.

[workswithseed 2103]

42 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

 

I know that this isn't part of the discussion, but when I see this, I'm wondering how universal healthcare would deal with scarcity issues like this.

[Sawbonz 27556]

30 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

"I am totally being safe except when I take my kids to Wal Mart, school, and soccer practice. Also the girls' wine night at the bar but they're totally being safe too. Also Thanksgiving we had 40 people at our house but they have all been super safe like we have"

- Every Tahoe driving suburban mom in the universe.

This thought process is why 1 out of 6 of US adults have genital herpes

[wildcat09 29354]

22 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

I know that this isn't part of the discussion, but when I see this, I'm wondering how universal healthcare would deal with scarcity issues like this.

Better than a system that decides Rudy fucking Giuliani should get the scarce superdrugs.