CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk

[JimmyJames 12271]

4 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

We represent like 4% of the world’s unvaccinated and like you say, it didn’t come from here. It’s tearing through highly vaccinated communities, states and countries with no regard.  If everyone was double vaxxed with fresh boosters, we probably could’ve slowed it a little but only delayed it. We definitely couldn’t have avoided it altogether. 

And? 
 

None of that supports an anti vax stance which apparently you agree with which of course makes you a total moron. 
 

Vaccinations work. Have for quite some time. If you want to be a Neanderthal then fucking leave the country. 

[Dahobbs 18190]

9 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

We represent like 4% of the world’s unvaccinated and like you say, it didn’t come from here. It’s tearing through highly vaccinated communities, states and countries with no regard.  If everyone was double vaxxed with fresh boosters, we probably could’ve slowed it a little but only delayed it. We definitely couldn’t have avoided it altogether. 

So? This is like saying other people run red lights, so there is no reason why I shouldn't run them too. Yeah, not running red lights isn't going drop your risk of being in a car accident to zero. It will sure as fuck help though. 

[NameAlreadyInUse 5165]

 

18 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

We represent like 4% of the world’s unvaccinated and like you say, it didn’t come from here. It’s tearing through highly vaccinated communities, states and countries with no regard.  If everyone was double vaxxed with fresh boosters, we probably could’ve slowed it a little but only delayed it. We definitely couldn’t have avoided it altogether. 

What you aren't getting here is that with proper vaxxing and masking this current variant probably never would've existed.  So yes, it potentially could've been avoided.  What we have to hope is that as Omicron rages it doesn't spawn some new, worse variant.  

[hobbes2702 13351]

20 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

We represent like 4% of the world’s unvaccinated and like you say, it didn’t come from here. It’s tearing through highly vaccinated communities, states and countries with no regard.  If everyone was double vaxxed with fresh boosters, we probably could’ve slowed it a little but only delayed it. We definitely couldn’t have avoided it altogether. 

This entire post is irrelevant to the discussion.

[Don Johnson 4802]

16 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

So? This is like saying other people run red lights, so there is no reason why I shouldn't run them too. Yeah, not running red lights isn't going drop your risk of being in a car accident to zero. It will sure as fuck help though. 

No. All I’m saying is that I disagree with the statement you made I quoted. Had we had a highly rate of vaccination we could not have avoided Omicron altogether. 

[Don Johnson 4802]

16 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

So? This is like saying other people run red lights, so there is no reason why I shouldn't run them too. Yeah, not running red lights isn't going drop your risk of being in a car accident to zero. It will sure as fuck help though. 

No. All I’m saying is that I disagree with the statement you made I quoted. Had we had a highly rate of vaccination we could not have avoided Omicron altogether. 

 

24 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

And? 
 

None of that supports an anti vax stance which apparently you agree with which of course makes you a total moron. 
 

Vaccinations work. Have for quite some time. If you want to be a Neanderthal then fucking leave the country. 

And what?  I disagree with the statement he made that if the US would’ve vaxxed more we could’ve avoided Omicron. Do you believe that?

-signed fully vaccinated guy who just had Omicron. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

8 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

No. All I’m saying is that I disagree with the statement you made I quoted. Had we had a highly rate of vaccination we could not have avoided Omicron altogether. 

 

And what?  I disagree with the statement he made that if the US would’ve vaxxed more we could’ve avoided Omicron. Do you believe that?

-signed fully vaccinated guy who just had Omicron. 

We’re not avoiding Covid, just trying to make it endemic. The hold up is the anti vax morons. 

I don’t care if you’ve been vaxed and have had Covid. You are making excuses for morons who refuse to get the vaccine because they are whining bitch ass toddlers in adult bodies. Fuck them and fuck you for spreading excuses for these assholes.

[Don Johnson 4802]

9 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

We’re not avoiding Covid, just trying to make it endemic. The hold up is the anti vax morons. 

I don’t care if you’ve been vaxed and have had Covid. You are making excuses for morons who refuse to get the vaccine because they are whining bitch ass toddlers in adult bodies. Fuck them and fuck you for spreading excuses for these assholes.

That’s a weird way to say you agree with what I’ve posted. But I’ll take what I can get. 

[Willfully Horn 8204]

4 hours ago, Skipper said:

a big reason many of them are so dug in is because of the constant bullshit and COVID theatre from the fear mongerers.   

How many dead folk? How many with long term consequences?  
 

Folks are so dug in because admitting they misjudged their severity of the threat takes character. Blaming others, as you have done, reveals the lack of character.

[Willfully Horn 8204]

3 hours ago, Skipper said:

how is an anti-vaxxer impacting your life?

Well, the variants arose from unvaxxed populations. Kind of a big deal, skippy.

[jimmyjazz 46976]

I don't think the anti-vax-adjacent crowd understands the numbers.  Let's say there are 100M unvaccinated Americans.  Let's say 2,000 Americans are dying of covid every day.  Don't argue the precision of the argument, I'm not that far off.

We know most (BUT NOT ALL) of the people dying at this point are unvaccinated.  They are not only a threat to themselves, but to society as a whole, including the vaccinated.

It would take 137 YEARS to burn through those unvaccinated Americans at 2,000 per day.  Now, that might seem that I have shown just how inconsequential this mortality rate is, but that's not a well-grounded argument -- at 2,000 dead per day, that would be the #1 cause of death in the US, annualized.  It's a huge number, a huge public health concern.

Add in the fact that they are infecting those who can't be vaccinated as well as those who have been but are unfortunate enough to suffer a breakthrough infection, well, fuck 'em.  Seriously, fuck 'em.

[workswithseed 2201]

15 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

Well, the variants arose from unvaxxed populations. Kind of a big deal, skippy.

From?

[Brisketexan 106627]

2 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I don't think the anti-vax-adjacent crowd understands the numbers.  Let's say there are 100M unvaccinated Americans.  Let's say 2,000 Americans are dying of covid every day.  Don't argue the precision of the argument, I'm not that far off.

We know most (BUT NOT ALL) of the people dying at this point are unvaccinated.  They are not only a threat to themselves, but to society as a whole, including the vaccinated.

It would take 137 YEARS to burn through those unvaccinated Americans at 2,000 per day.  Now, that might seem that I have shown just how inconsequential this mortality rate is, but that's not a well-grounded argument -- at 2,000 dead per day, that would be the #1 cause of death in the US, annualized.  It's a huge number, a huge public health concern.

Add in the fact that they are infecting those who can't be vaccinated as well as those who have been but are unfortunate enough to suffer a breakthrough infection, well, fuck 'em.  Seriously, fuck 'em.

As much as I agree with your "fuck em" conclusion....I can't agree with your numbers.  Yes, 2000 Americans are dying a day (ballpark).  Yes, there are ballpark 100 million unvaxxed (note that many of those can't be vaxed -- kids under 5, for example, but let's assume they are all asshole anti-vaxxers).  The problem with your hypothetical is that it presumes a 100% death rate among the unvaxxed.  And while their percentage risk of death is many times that of the vaxxed.....it ain't anywhere close to 100%.  Let's even go with a high number, like 1%.  That means that of the 100 million unvaxxed, 1 million will die.  If we keep at 2,000 dead a day (we won't, but if we did), we'd burn through them in less than 1.5 years.

And honestly, that's the kind of math that does give me hope.  We have a supply of dry tinder, which catches fire easily and burns hot and causes damage.  But the fire is raging and spreading unchecked.  It will burn through its fuel (sooner rather than later, at the current pace).  There aren't going to be 100 million "immunity naive" people left -- shit, there probably aren't that many left now.  Between the vaccinated and previously infected (which DOES provide a measure of protection against future bad outcomes), our numbers are getting way up there.

Now, will the remaining unvaxxed in the world create a reservoir for the next variant that gives zero fucks about our vaccines or someone's prior infection-based immunity?  Maybe.  That's why a strong push to get every place vaxxed should continue.

[jimmyjazz 46976]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

As much as I agree with your "fuck em" conclusion....I can't agree with your numbers.  Yes, 2000 Americans are dying a day (ballpark).  Yes, there are ballpark 100 million unvaxxed (note that many of those can't be vaxed -- kids under 5, for example, but let's assume they are all asshole anti-vaxxers).  The problem with your hypothetical is that it presumes a 100% death rate among the unvaxxed.  And while their percentage risk of death is many times that of the vaxxed.....it ain't anywhere close to 100%.  Let's even go with a high number, like 1%.  That means that of the 100 million unvaxxed, 1 million will die.  If we keep at 2,000 dead a day (we won't, but if we did), we'd burn through them in less than 1.5 years.

I obviously wasn't suggesting that all unvaxxed Americans would die of covid in 137 years.  I was providing a sense of scale as to how small a percentage of unvaxxed Americans are dying each day from covid.  EVEN SO, at this rate it's the #1 cause of death (per year) in the US.  To dismiss that is a fucking travesty.

[JimmyJames 12271]

25 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

How many dead folk? How many with long term consequences?  
 

Folks are so dug in because admitting they misjudged their severity of the threat takes character. Blaming others, as you have done, reveals the lack of character.

Some of them would rather risk death than admit they were wrong. Just think about how fucked up that is.

When you jump off the Golden Gate Bridge there’s a 99 percent chance you will die. Every once in a while, if you jump off and are young enough and in good enough shape and hit the water feet first at a certain angle and then somehow get rescued in the water in time you can survive the jump. It’s happened rarely but a few times.  Maybe around 30 times. 

Without fail when asked about it they all say that immediately after they jumped they immediately regretted it and all of a sudden all of their problems in life became meaningless and they totally regretted it. I bet it’s like that for the Covid deniers on the brink of death too, or at least it should be.

Edited January 20, 2022 by JimmyJames

[Willfully Horn 8204]

57 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

From?

Delta arose in rural India and Omicron in unvaxxed South Africans. Some folks say Omicron comes from a lab. Occam disagrees.

https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/covid-19-variants-of-concern-omicron

 

Edited January 20, 2022 by Willfully Horn
Tense

[Willfully Horn 8204]

48 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I obviously wasn't suggesting that all unvaxxed Americans would die of covid in 137 years.  I was providing a sense of scale as to how small a percentage of unvaxxed Americans are dying each day from covid.  EVEN SO, at this rate it's the #1 cause of death (per year) in the US.  To dismiss that is a fucking travesty.

This post gives the unvaxxed and unmasked license to ignore their responsibility to others, I hear.

[Dahobbs 18190]

1 hour ago, Don Johnson said:

No. All I’m saying is that I disagree with the statement you made I quoted. Had we had a highly rate of vaccination we could not have avoided Omicron altogether. 

 

And what?  I disagree with the statement he made that if the US would’ve vaxxed more we could’ve avoided Omicron. Do you believe that?

-signed fully vaccinated guy who just had Omicron. 

Then quote the full statement, it was avoid or control. Further, we need to do our part to prevent the rise of the next omicron. Vaccination is part of that effort. Yes, others need to do it do. That would be a terribly reason not to try, which is the stupid conclusion your arguing for. 

[Anastasis 23699]

2 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

Omicron and other variants arose because of a pool of people who weren't vaccinated. While this particular variant arose outside of the United States (as best we can tell), the general proposition is the same: the unvaccinated provide a safe haven for virus to spread and mutate. Had our population been fully vaccinated and taken precautions like proper mask use, Omicron would have spread much less quickly as both vaccination and mask use slows the spread. 

Either immunocompromised host, animal reservoir spill over event, drug induced mutations (molpunivir), or lab leak.  Those are the most likely scenarios for origin of omicron. Transmission and spread slowed by vaccination, ok, to some extent.  But almost everyone that I know that has been hit by it has been vaccinated. Some even with prior covid + full vaccine course. 

[Anastasis 23699]

1 hour ago, Willfully Horn said:

Well, the variants arose from unvaxxed populations. Kind of a big deal, skippy.

Omicron branched off before vaccines were deployed, in mid 2020 if you believe the tree. 

[Willfully Horn 8204]

15 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Omicron branched off before vaccines were deployed, in mid 2020 if you believe the tree. 

That doesn’t follow, given the RO.

[Sawbonz 28082]

2 hours ago, Don Johnson said:

No. All I’m saying is that I disagree with the statement you made I quoted. Had we had a highly rate of vaccination we could not have avoided Omicron altogether. 

 

And what?  I disagree with the statement he made that if the US would’ve vaxxed more we could’ve avoided Omicron. Do you believe that?

-signed fully vaccinated guy who just had Omicron. 

We couldn’t have avoided completely but could have been i much better shape. Canada appears to be past its omicron peak ahead of us, and its new case rate was about 40% of ours, assuming we are at or close to ours currently  
 

Incrementally higher vax rates above 85% can pay big dividends as we know from measles 

[Anastasis 23699]

Just now, Willfully Horn said:

That doesn’t follow, given the RO.

The tree is hard to explain, granted. But I think that repeating the mantra that the unvaccinated are spinning up variants like omicron is neither appropriate nor productive nor supported by the existing science. 

[Sawbonz 28082]

10 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

The tree is hard to explain, granted. But I think that repeating the mantra that the unvaccinated are spinning up variants like omicron is neither appropriate nor productive nor supported by the existing science. 

I’m not sure you can have a neither with 2 nors. Going to need a ruling from the judges

[Anastasis 23699]

Just now, Sawbonz said:

I’m not sure you can have a neither with 2 nors. Going to need a ruling from the judges

Paging @DDD Dad

[Post Oak 20551]

BuT DemoCRAts CANcel CuLturE

 

[Willfully Horn 8204]

19 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

The tree is hard to explain, granted. But I think that repeating the mantra that the unvaccinated are spinning up variants like omicron is neither appropriate nor productive nor supported by the existing science. 

Yeah, that chart makes little sense when trying to square it with pandemic history and common understanding of the virus. I don’t understand, either, how pointing to conditions that are more Petrie than others (vaxxed and masked) is inappropriate.
 

 

[JimmyJames 12271]

1 hour ago, Post Oak said:

BuT DemoCRAts CANcel CuLturE

 

Cancel Culture is eboowaboo control!!!

Badoosomething!!

[Skipper 6406]

4 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

Please take the time to address the posts regarding the people we can't currently vaccinate. I'd love to know why it doesn't matter that my daughters are at additional risk because of assholes.

I'm going to come back to this post since you requested a response and then get the fuck off the board and try not to ever come back. I forgot how much groupthink and tribalism exists over here (not you, just generally).   But I still do not agree that RIGHT NOW with THIS variant anyone is at any material additional risk from the "anti-vaxers".  If you are in a crowded room with 25 people, are your odds better if they are all vaxed? Sure.  But your odds aren't very good period.  And if you are concerned about getting exposed you better not go in that room.  Other than kids, most everyone I know that has gotten Omicron is vaxed (many boosted) and I think everyone I know that knows the source of infection got it from a vaxed person. 

To be clear, I would 100% agree with what you are saying if it were 9 months ago. And I would have been (and was) supportive of vax mandates/passports then.

But anyone that is concerned for personal risk flat out shouldn't venture out right now (although it's just delaying the inevitable as even Fauci noted so we aren't changing behavior). 

But assuming your daughters are young, Covid was actually the best thing that could have happened to them from a personal health risk perspective.  It's counterintuitive but we've certainly said that about our 2 and 5 year old.   The risk of severe disease from flu in young children is multiples compared to Covid (and not claiming Covid is no risk but not as scary as the flu in that age group).  That's indisputable.  So in that sense all of us with young children have been lucky there have been 2 non-existent flu seasons.

[Anastasis 23699]

6 minutes ago, Skipper said:

I'm going to come back to this post since you requested a response and then get the fuck off the board

Fuck that stick around. This board would benefit from more diversity of perspective. 

[Skipper 6406]

3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

There aren't going to be 100 million "immunity naive" people left -- shit, there probably aren't that many left now.  Between the vaccinated and previously infected (which DOES provide a measure of protection against future bad outcomes), our numbers are getting way up there.

 

Here is the Texas Cares Survey estimate in Texas as of October 3rd (combo of vaccine + natural immunity).   So that is still during Delta wave and pre-omicron with continued vaccinations.  So that number is clearly going to be MUCH higher post-Omicron.  Which is essentially why I'm optimistic and the crux of my argument on this board.  Ok, now I'm really leaving.

-------Estimated percentage of the Texas population with SARS-CoV-2 antibodies: 75.5% (as of October 3, 2021). This proportion of the population benefited from some degree of protection from COVID-19.*

[workswithseed 2201]

2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Fuck that stick around. This board would benefit from more diversity of perspective. 

Meh.

[Skipper 6406]

2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Fuck that stick around. This board would benefit from more diversity of perspective. 

Haha.  I'll try when I have some time to get triggered.  I come over here when I'm bored and have some free time and it makes me convinced I better start voting Republican.   Then I use my friends Orangebloods login and read the MAGA ivermectin cure-all nonsense and it makes me weep for society.   

In all seriousness, we should all listen to this one and, as he notes, take a step back and listen to other viewpoints. I'm 100% guilty of it.  COVID Update LIVE: Supreme Court, CDC Masks, Tribalism, & More! (zdoggmd.com)

[Dahobbs 18190]

12 minutes ago, Skipper said:

I'm going to come back to this post since you requested a response and then get the fuck off the board and try not to ever come back. I forgot how much groupthink and tribalism exists over here (not you, just generally).   But I still do not agree that RIGHT NOW with THIS variant anyone is at any material additional risk from the "anti-vaxers".  If you are in a crowded room with 25 people, are your odds better if they are all vaxed? Sure.  But your odds aren't very good period.  And if you are concerned about getting exposed you better not go in that room.  Other than kids, most everyone I know that has gotten Omicron is vaxed (many boosted) and I think everyone I know that knows the source of infection got it from a vaxed person. 

To be clear, I would 100% agree with what you are saying if it were 9 months ago. And I would have been (and was) supportive of vax mandates/passports then.

But anyone that is concerned for personal risk flat out shouldn't venture out right now (although it's just delaying the inevitable as even Fauci noted so we aren't changing behavior). 

But assuming your daughters are young, Covid was actually the best thing that could have happened to them from a personal health risk perspective.  It's counterintuitive but we've certainly said that about our 2 and 5 year old.   The risk of severe disease from flu in young children is multiples compared to Covid (and not claiming Covid is no risk but not as scary as the flu in that age group).  That's indisputable.  So in that sense all of us with young children have been lucky there have been 2 non-existent flu seasons.

And some of this is why I said I'm not entirely unsympathetic with your position. But don't exaggerate it by saying those refusing to vaccinate bring no harm or risk to anyone else. That simply isn't the case. We'd be better off if they'd vaccinate, physically and economically. Whether that harm is enough to warrant vaccine mandates is a more debatable issue. 

Whether you stick around or not is up to you. But no one here is beating you up, stop being a baby about it. 

[DDD Dad 14571]

Paging [mention=121]DDD Dad[/mention]

Sorry I’m too tired and dealing with what I think may finally be my turn in the ring with COVID to have a clear head.

[BrickHorn 18426]

11 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Omicron branched off before vaccines were deployed, in mid 2020 if you believe the tree. 

Which further supports that it emerged in unvaccinated populations.

[OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys 2153]

12 hours ago, JimmyJames said:

Some of them would rather risk death than admit they were wrong. 

Famous sociologist Jerry Seinfeld authored works on something similar. 
 

 

[ouflak 60]

53 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

Which further supports that it emerged in unvaccinated populations.

True. But, if that analysis and conclusion of the origins is scientific and accurate, there were only unvaccinated populations around when they emerged. For both Delta and Omicron. Those variants could have come from people who were the first in line to get a vaccine when it became available to them, as well as the subsequent booster, and 100% support mandates/fines/jail sentences for the unvaccinated. So blaming the unvaccinated for these variants is not logical. If on the other hand we get a variant that sweeps through that is unequivocally post vaccine availability and can clearly be traced to an unvaccinated group, then sure, pile the blame on.

Edited January 20, 2022 by ouflak

[Mole 4338]

Regarding the risk the unvaccinated pose to a community, my community is largely unvaccinated (somewhere less that 40% of those eligible). From July through September/October the only hospital within 45 minutes reported that their ICU bed capacity was maxed out. Even the if my personal COVID risk was minimal due to the vaccine, life and other bad things happen. People have emergencies and need medical care. The unvaccinated strain on my local hospital surely put my entire community in greater danger.

[BrickHorn 18426]

12 minutes ago, ouflak said:

True. But, if that analysis and conclusion of the origins is scientific and accurate, there were only unvaccinated populations around when they emerged. For both Delta and Omicron. Those variants could have come from people who were the first in line to get a vaccine when it became available to them, as well as the subsequent booster, and 100% support mandates/fines/jail sentences for the unvaccinated. So blaming the unvaccinated for these variants is not logical. If on the other hand we get a variant that sweeps through that is unequivocally post vaccine availability and can clearly be traced to an unvaccinated group, then sure, pile the blame on.

You’re mixing up an objective inquiry (whether a vaccine reduces the likelihood of variant emergence) with a moral question (whether individuals who choose not to vaccinate bear blame for contributing to the risk of variant emergence). 

 

[Ten Bears 2499]

Nvm

Edited January 20, 2022 by Ten Bears

[Skipper 6406]

2 minutes ago, Bravo said:

Newest found variant IHU was discovered in France. It is a fairly highly vaxxed population. Can we blame that variant on the vaxxed? (Rhetorical) Of course, not. Blaming variants on the unvaxxed or vaxxed isn't intellectually honest. It can happen in either population. The hyperbole isnt needed.

Even if we were to accept "variants are more likely to emerge in unvaccinated populations" which I've seen stated as fact numerous times but never really understood the scientific support for, assuming that statement is accurate generally, was it because vaccinations were causing fewer infections and thus giving the virus fewer opportunities to mutate? 

And if so, in the US where Omicron now runs at 95%+ and easily invading vaccine immunity, is that statement still accurate?  Honest question for anyone with a better understanding of virology.  I just wonder if that was a statement that had merit pre-Delta but not anymore.    

[Brisketexan 106627]

7 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Even if we were to accept "variants are more likely to emerge in unvaccinated populations" which I've seen stated as fact numerous times but never really understood the scientific support for, assuming that statement is accurate generally, was it because vaccinations were causing fewer infections and thus giving the virus fewer opportunities to mutate? 

And if so, in the US where Omicron now runs at 95%+ and easily invading vaccine immunity, is that statement still accurate?  Honest question for anyone with a better understanding of virology.  I just wonder if that was a statement that had merit pre-Delta but not anymore.    

It is a general rule: an unvaccinated population creates a large reservoir for a virus to spend time, replicate, and create variants.

However, if a particular virus is not materially hindered by vaccination, then the general rule doesn't apply as strongly.  Note that it still may apply, in that because the overall rate and time of replication may still be REDUCED in the vaccinated population, the chance for a variant to spring up is similarly reduced.

Omicron has changed the game significantly with respect to the current vaccine formulations.  While the vaccinated are still  less likely than the unvaccinated to provide a reservoir for future variants to emerge, they are not as unlikely to do so as they were before Omicron came along.

Long-term, vaccination -- particularly future formulations of a vaccine that will target Omicron -- is still important for reducing the reservoir for potential variant creation (not to mention all the other reasons vaccination is important).

[BrickHorn 18426]

24 minutes ago, Bravo said:

Newest found variant IHU was discovered in France. It is a fairly highly vaxxed population. Can we blame that variant on the vaxxed? (Rhetorical) Of course, not. Blaming variants on the unvaxxed or vaxxed isn't intellectually honest. It can happen in either population. The hyperbole isnt needed.

That’s a stupid point. Lung cancer “can happen” to a non smoker. So might as well smoke, right?

Don’t sit here and lecture us about “intellectual honesty” if you’re going to just ignore relative risk because reality is inconvenient to your partisan bullshit.

[jimmyjazz 46976]

2 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

That’s a stupid point. Lung cancer “can happen” to a non smoker. So might as well smoke, right?

Don’t sit here and lecture us about “intellectual honesty” if you’re going to just ignore relative risk because reality is inconvenient to your partisan bullshit.

He's been called out over ignorance of relative risk multiple times.  He just ignores those lessons and comes back with the same shit.

In short, he's nothing but a troll with zero interest in honest debate.

[BrickHorn 18426]

21 minutes ago, Skipper said:

And if so, in the US where Omicron now runs at 95%+ and easily invading vaccine immunity, is that statement still accurate?  Honest question for anyone with a better understanding of virology.  I just wonder if that was a statement that had merit pre-Delta but not anymore.

Viruses mutate at a predictable rate. The more virus particles there are invading cells and replicating, the quicker a new variant will emerge.

Anything that reduces the amount of a virus in circulation should therefore slow the emergence of new variants. The existing vaccines are not perfect at preventing infection with Omicron, but they do prevent a percentage of infections. And I believe they tend to reduce the viral load in an infected individual (which is why the vaccines are very effective at preventing serious illness). All of that should help slow the emergence of new variants, even if it doesn’t stop it completely.

[BrickHorn 18426]

Just now, Bravo said:

I was specifically responding to statements as facts blaming the variants on unvaxxed. 

And you’ve done an absolute shit job of raising any relevant points in that regard.

[BrickHorn 18426]

Just now, Bravo said:

Was anything I stated untrue? If so, I am open to correction but I don't think I stated anything not true.

What you did was ignore relevant facts and obscured important distinctions. Your point that a variant “can happen” in a vaccinated population misses the point entirely. 

It’s like standing on the deck of the sinking Titanic and insisting that everyone is safe because steel has a higher tensile strength than ice. Is that “true?” Sure. But it misses the fucking point which is that — despite that true fact — an iceberg just poked a big honking hole in the hull.

[ouflak 60]

23 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

That’s a stupid point. Lung cancer “can happen” to a non smoker. So might as well smoke, right?

I don't believe that's a logical correlation. I think a more apt one would be, "Lung cancer can be treated with chemotherapy, in recent years with increasing success. So everybody should get chemotherapy just to be sure." But then even that argument has its obvious flaws, one being that lung cancer -as far as anybody is aware - isn't easily transmissable by simply going about one's daily life as normal. There is probably a much better analogy out there that can be linked with normal behavior, maybe regarding a likewise infectious disease such as leprosy or turberulosis or perhaps even some STD's?

Edited January 20, 2022 by ouflak

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19279]

51 minutes ago, Bravo said:

Newest found variant IHU was discovered in France. It is a fairly highly vaxxed population. Can we blame that variant on the vaxxed? (Rhetorical) Of course, not. Blaming variants on the unvaxxed or vaxxed isn't intellectually honest. It can happen in either population. The hyperbole isnt needed.

It was discovered in France with the index case being linked to travel to Cameroon.  You know, Cameroon where only 2.5% of the population is fully vaccinated and about 3.7% of its population is living with HIV.  I wonder how that new variant, that is over 60% similar to Omicron could have come about?  Christ, you are dumb.