CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk

[YChang 3431]

4 hours ago, JimmyJames said:

What would you call it when you say ACC Jimmy? 
 

Man you guys are so dim. 

term of endearment? 😄

[TwiceHorn 31299]

1 hour ago, TurkeyChew said:

I think you are suffering from a recency bias or something, because a quick google search shows that in the 80's, seatbelt laws were a HUGE political issue. Just google and read about it. 

https://www.history.com/news/seat-belt-laws-

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/09/16/when-battle-over-american-freedom-was-centered-seat-belt-laws/

It may have been political, but it wasn't partisan political.  People of #bothsides bitched about seat belt laws.  Bitching about seatbelt laws, or helmet laws, wasn't an almost automatic way of determining someone's political affiliation.

NH is the only state without a seatbelt law.  Live free or die, amirite?  

53-45 Biden.

[Sawbonz 27442]

18 minutes ago, Bravo said:

What? The more times it replicates the more time it has a chance to mutate. If it is replicating in vaxed and unvaxxed people you could end up with a mutation in either group. 

You ever take a statistics course?

[Anastasis 23397]

Just now, Bravo said:

What? The more times it replicates the more time it has a chance to mutate. If it is replicating in vaxed and unvaxxed people you could end up with a mutation in either group. 

I think that it is more important to consider the intra-individual replication rate, rather than transmission. Greatest risk for variant emergence appears to be infection of an immunocompromised host with some antiviral selection pressure applied. Extended infection, mucho replication, pressure to evolve. Vaccines are fairly irrelevant in that case, except to the extent that community vaccination may reduce risk of exposure for the vaccinated immunocompromised (and that risk reduction appears greatly diminished in the setting of omicron). The variants are going to keep coming. Either from the immunocompromised hosts, from animal reservoirs spilling back over, from antiviral pressure, or from lax lab safety. Some people really want to use variant emergence as another justification to break out the mandate stick, but the justification seems flimsy overall.

 

[JimmyJames 12271]

2 hours ago, TurkeyChew said:

This reeks of "the world is not like how I thought it would be or how it should be and my world view is challenged and I can't deal with reality".

Are you a small farm boy who just moved to New York City?

Negged for not making any sense at all. Be better.

[JimmyJames 12271]

48 minutes ago, Bravo said:

Why did you not post where I said that? 

4 doors more Whores!

[JimmyJames 12271]

1 minute ago, Bravo said:

Troll 

Hey I’m not the one who has been constantly posting bullshit here for twelve hours straight.  Do you have another job?

[JimmyJames 12271]

9 minutes ago, Bravo said:

Troll

While we’re on the subject, what does 4 doors more whores mean anyway? Apparently it was important enough to you to put it in your avatar. 

[Willfully Horn 7920]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

the mandate stick,

Mandate stick is less effective than anti-vax support dissolution. Best practices ought be reflected in public statements.

[Anastasis 23397]

Where are the hall monitor and thread linearity posters at?

[elfenix 34180]

13 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

While we’re on the subject, what does 4 doors more whores mean anyway? Apparently it was important enough to you to put it in your avatar. 

 

[JimmyJames 12271]

Just now, Bravo said:

It's from the Rittenhouse trial. You want to figure out who the other person is? It's likely someone from that thread. Now troll off. 

Well now the suspense is killing me. Did Kyle shoot up some whores Craig James style? Did he have to bust through 4 doors to kill 5 whores? I’m all ears. 

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

22 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Where are the hall monitor and thread linearity posters at?

@DDD Dad

[workswithseed 2037]

20 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Well now the suspense is killing me. Did Kyle shoot up some whores Craig James style? Did he have to bust through 4 doors to kill 5 whores? I’m all ears. 

It might be hard to read, and type, if you're all ears.

[JimmyJames 12271]

3 hours ago, TurkeyChew said:

I think you are suffering from a recency bias or something, because a quick google search shows that in the 80's, seatbelt laws were a HUGE political issue. Just google and read about it. 

https://www.history.com/news/seat-belt-laws-resistance

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/09/16/when-battle-over-american-freedom-was-centered-seat-belt-laws/

The difference back then with respect to seat belt laws was the idiocy was pretty bipartisan. You had idiots on both sides resisting them. I remember it very well growing up. 

Nowadays the idiocy is almost exclusively on the Republican side. The dems didn’t nominate an imbecile like trump and his criminal brood to be president.

[JimmyJames 12271]

22 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

It might be hard to read, and type, if you're all ears.

[Skipper 6103]

I thought this was a pretty good article:

Now that science has defanged Covid, it’s time to get on with our lives | Devi Sridhar | The Guardian

I expect as Omicron dwindles over the next 3-4 weeks we start seeing a lot more of these conversations in the US.  And since it's the political forum I think it's going to be very interesting to watch the Biden's administration's approach .  A decent chunk of the far left base falls into the 'everyone should mask', 'schools should shut down each surge', etc. etc.   But the middle majority (who's votes the D's desperately need) are vaxed and ready to move on with their lives.  They won't "bitch" about masking and will comply but see it as largely COVID Theatre (i.e., at Mavs game last night, required to put mask on to enter (didn't see anyone complain), but then 90% had them off as soon as they got to their seats, never put them back on, and nobody cared).  Essentially I think most people are ready to accept risks of an endemic virus given vaccines + therapeutics that will be widely available once this wave is over.  

Pure speculation but I'm betting the Biden administration is absolutely debating how to navigate this to not completely lose the left or the middle that voted for him.  I think we've seen some of this over the past couple of weeks.  CDC had some messaging about "starting to focus on protecting the vulnerable" while they also come out with the free N95 mask policy.   From a pandemic perspective, the free N95 masks are clearly way too late to provide any meaningful benefit in the Omicron wave (if they would have to begin with). 

But I'm betting it's pure strategy.  Around the time masks are actually available a few weeks from now, I bet the messaging around masks, for example, really starts to be about lifting mandates an "protect yourself with an N95 if vulnerable/worried". 

We've already seen the latter messaging the last couple of weeks with CDC guidance but I'm betting that messaging is combined with easing of restrictions to not lose the middle once this wave subsides.

But yeah, I don't envy Biden trying to navigate given the chunk on the left that seem to think policy should be geared toward 'zero Covid'.

[Biff Tannen 45500]

10 minutes ago, Skipper said:

But yeah, I don't envy Biden trying to navigate given the chunk on the left that seem to think policy should be geared toward 'zero Covid'.

I think there's a smaller portion of the left that actually are going for zero Covid and more of us that are just pissed at the assholes that have prolonged this whole thing for no god damned reason other than stupidity and selfishness.  Not a dig at you specifically, just saying, I think "zero covid" is not really what a lot of people are going for.  Less covid due to smart precautions and fewer dumbfucks.  That would be nice.

[We’reTexas 1469]

6 minutes ago, Skipper said:

I thought this was a pretty good article:

Now that science has defanged Covid, it’s time to get on with our lives | Devi Sridhar | The Guardian

I expect as Omicron dwindles over the next 3-4 weeks we start seeing a lot more of these conversations in the US.  And since it's the political forum I think it's going to be very interesting to watch the Biden's administration's approach .  A decent chunk of the far left base falls into the 'everyone should mask', 'schools should shut down each surge', etc. etc.   But the middle majority (who's votes the D's desperately need) are vaxed and ready to move on with their lives.  They won't "bitch" about masking and will comply but see it as largely COVID Theatre (i.e., at Mavs game last night, required to put mask on to enter (didn't see anyone complain), but then 90% had them off as soon as they got to their seats, never put them back on, and nobody cared).  Essentially I think most people are ready to accept risks of an endemic virus given vaccines + therapeutics that will be widely available once this wave is over.  

Pure speculation but I'm betting the Biden administration is absolutely debating how to navigate this to not completely lose the left or the middle that voted for him.  I think we've seen some of this over the past couple of weeks.  CDC had some messaging about "starting to focus on protecting the vulnerable" while they also come out with the free N95 mask policy.   From a pandemic perspective, the free N95 masks are clearly way too late to provide any meaningful benefit in the Omicron wave (if they would have to begin with). 

But I'm betting it's pure strategy.  Around the time masks are actually available a few weeks from now, I bet the messaging around masks, for example, really starts to be about lifting mandates an "protect yourself with an N95 if vulnerable/worried". 

We've already seen the latter messaging the last couple of weeks with CDC guidance but I'm betting that messaging is combined with easing of restrictions to not lose the middle once this wave subsides.

But yeah, I don't envy Biden trying to navigate given the chunk on the left that seem to think policy should be geared toward 'zero Covid'.

Yeah I saw Monica Gandhi retweet that article earlier. Monica Gandhi is head of UCSF’s AIDS research center and since May 2020 has been publicly pushing for a harm reduction approach to live with the pandemic rather than zero COVID because, well, one disease that should not take a back seat to COVID is AIDS (especially is SF). She’s pushed for a very pragmatic approach but in California is basically Greg Abbott. 
 

Anyways, she recently published a 2022 COVID plan in TIME for the Biden administration which sent a prominent progressive UCSF faculty member and others apoplectic. To your point, there’s an influential chunk of the progressive wing that has dug its heels in on zero COVID because they argue that the end of this thing is not vaccines but solving structural inequality in healthcare . That’s obviously laudable but a quixotic near-term goal. This isn’t a fringe school of thought. In CA, progressives were able to push through a health equity metric for reopening that arguably unnecessarily delayed the process, and Gavin Newsom continues to speak in terms of zero COVID. There definitely needs to be a reorientation in the thinking of many public health authorities but I think it will be a uphill battle with the progressive wing. 

[Dahobbs 17449]

29 minutes ago, Skipper said:

I thought this was a pretty good article:

Now that science has defanged Covid, it’s time to get on with our lives | Devi Sridhar | The Guardian

I expect as Omicron dwindles over the next 3-4 weeks we start seeing a lot more of these conversations in the US.  And since it's the political forum I think it's going to be very interesting to watch the Biden's administration's approach .  A decent chunk of the far left base falls into the 'everyone should mask', 'schools should shut down each surge', etc. etc.   But the middle majority (who's votes the D's desperately need) are vaxed and ready to move on with their lives.  They won't "bitch" about masking and will comply but see it as largely COVID Theatre (i.e., at Mavs game last night, required to put mask on to enter (didn't see anyone complain), but then 90% had them off as soon as they got to their seats, never put them back on, and nobody cared).  Essentially I think most people are ready to accept risks of an endemic virus given vaccines + therapeutics that will be widely available once this wave is over.  

Pure speculation but I'm betting the Biden administration is absolutely debating how to navigate this to not completely lose the left or the middle that voted for him.  I think we've seen some of this over the past couple of weeks.  CDC had some messaging about "starting to focus on protecting the vulnerable" while they also come out with the free N95 mask policy.   From a pandemic perspective, the free N95 masks are clearly way too late to provide any meaningful benefit in the Omicron wave (if they would have to begin with). 

But I'm betting it's pure strategy.  Around the time masks are actually available a few weeks from now, I bet the messaging around masks, for example, really starts to be about lifting mandates an "protect yourself with an N95 if vulnerable/worried". 

We've already seen the latter messaging the last couple of weeks with CDC guidance but I'm betting that messaging is combined with easing of restrictions to not lose the middle once this wave subsides.

But yeah, I don't envy Biden trying to navigate given the chunk on the left that seem to think policy should be geared toward 'zero Covid'.

I know you really want to portray this board (and the left generally) as some sort of fringe group. It really isn't and is a lot closer to what you advocate for than you seem to think. Some of us just take issue with a few of your assumptions and your presentation of the issues. But, I think pretty much everyone that is now called "left" on this board would agree with this statement from your article:

Quote

What does all this mean in terms of living with Covid-19? We still need to test. We still need to vaccinate and combat misinformation. We need to encourage people to wear medical-grade masks such as N95s in crowded and indoor settings. Employers need to recognise and support employees who have been identified as in a shielding group. We also need to review isolation and other policies so they remain safe, but are less disruptive to the functioning of society.

I feel like this what we have all been saying for awhile now. Hell, we could have been there early last year. Many of us are just frustrated with the idiots that prevented that from happening. I think that frustration has been misconstrued as a belief that our goal should be zero risk/zero covid. 

[jimmyjazz 45563]

Just now, Dahobbs said:

I think that frustration has been misconstrued as a belief that our goal should be zero risk/zero covid. 

It would be reasonable to assume that's the goal had a single person ever stated that that was the goal.

[Skipper 6103]

20 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

I know you really want to portray this board (and the left generally) as some sort of fringe group. It really isn't and is a lot closer to what you advocate for than you seem to think. Some of us just take issue with a few of your assumptions and your presentation of the issues. But, I think pretty much everyone that is now called "left" on this board would agree with this statement from your article:

I don't read this board enough to know whether to portray it generally as 'Covid Zero'.  I was more referencing the California type liberals referenced and linked in the post above generally rather than this board.    I see that lot all over Twitter. And Twitter isn't real life but it brings out the lunatics on the far left and MAGA right.  The lunatics on the right are a lost cause for Biden but the reaction of the crazies on the left that are going to go nuts over a more pragmatic Covid strategy and Biden's attempt to appease them while not losing the middle will be fun to watch.  Because taking this back to politics, I think the #1 way Biden loses anti-Trump swing voters is to continue to support restrictions if and when Omicron subsides.  After 60%+ of the country gets Omicron (and not a big deal for most), I think there will be a large majority support for approaches like Monica Ghandi outlined in the link per post above (which I also saw a few weeks back and thought was a good read).

[Skipper 6103]

33 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

I feel like this what we have all been saying for awhile now. Hell, we could have been there early last year. Many of us are just frustrated with the idiots that prevented that from happening. I think that frustration has been misconstrued as a belief that our goal should be zero risk/zero covid. 

I don't think it would have mattered and Omicron would have washed over us regardless of last year (and I also felt much stronger about vax policies/passports at the time when I thought it made a difference which they did pre-Delta).   It's going to be absolutely fascinating to watch China's zero Covid policy play out in real time.  I mean they are fucking culling thousands of hamsters in pet shops this week because a pet shop owner was purportedly infected by an imported infected hamster.  

[Anastasis 23397]

3 minutes ago, Skipper said:

I don't think it would have mattered and Omicron would have washed over us regardless of last year (and I also felt much stronger about vax policies/passports at the time when I thought it made a difference which they did pre-Delta).   It's going to be absolutely fascinating to watch China's zero Covid policy play out in real time.  I mean they are fucking culling thousands of hamsters in pet shops this week because a pet shop owner was purportedly infected by an imported infected hamster.  

China is full of fucking shit about everything.  They blamed some omicron cases on mail from canada recently. 

[Dahobbs 17449]

16 minutes ago, Skipper said:

I don't read this board enough to know whether to portray it generally as 'Covid Zero'.  I was more referencing the California type liberals referenced and linked in the post above generally rather than this board.    I see that lot all over Twitter. And Twitter isn't real life but it brings out the lunatics on the far left and MAGA right.  The lunatics on the right are a lost cause for Biden but the reaction of the crazies on the left that are going to go nuts over a more pragmatic Covid strategy and Biden's attempt to appease them while not losing the middle will be fun to watch.  Because taking this back to politics, I think the #1 way Biden loses anti-Trump swing voters is to continue to support restrictions if and when Omicron subsides.  After 60%+ of the country gets Omicron (and not a big deal for most), I think there will be a large majority support for approaches like Monica Ghandi outlined in the link per post above (which I also saw a few weeks back and thought was a good read).

My best advice to you would be to stop reading random Twitter opinions. I honestly think you're getting an inaccurate impression of what the "left" believes. I think there is already large support on the left and center for what Monica proposes. The ones who would resist it arent identified as left. Honestly, where are the leaders on the left, the California liberals as you say, calling for a zero covid world as the only solution? I haven't seen that at all. But it easy enough to find the leaders in the right still claiming covid is no big deal and still claiming. 

 I still find it fascinating that we are seeing 6,000 to 20,000 excess deaths every week over the last few months, and a lot of people view it as no big deal. Yet if a 911 size attack (3000 dead) was announced every few days, the nation would be in a frenzy. It's just odd to me. 

Edited January 21, 2022 by Dahobbs

[lemonlime 5503]

49 minutes ago, We’reTexas said:

Y and Gavin Newsom continues to speak in terms of zero COVID. There definitely needs to be a reorientation in the thinking of many public health authorities but I think it will be a uphill battle with the progressive wing. 

That's not true. 

The actual quote from Newsom, as printed in the op ed you cited to, and not speculation by the author of the op ed:

"Big milestone: California now at 93% of people have at least one shot, which is something to celebrate, right?" Michaelson said. "But then when we get to that point, where is the light at the end of the tunnel, when does this state of emergency end, if we're seeing that much progress on vaccinations?"

"We'll know it when we experience it," the governor replied. "... They say about success, it's not a place or a definition, it's a direction. I mean eventually we'll get to that point, but it doesn't seem that there's a numerical match to it. It was, you know, initially it was 60%, then 70%, you add that with herd immunity, antibodies for people who haven't been vaccinated, and now we're realizing, wait a second, I mean, we're many parts, one body, what happens in South Africa can impact us here in the United States, so even if a state does well, that doesn't mean we're out of the woods.

"Look, we're making progress, California has about a third of the hospitalizations we were this time last year, less than a third of the average daily case rates than we did this time last year, that's because of our higher vaccination rates."

[JimmyJames 12271]

18 minutes ago, Skipper said:

I don't read this board enough to know whether to portray it generally as 'Covid Zero'.  I was more referencing the California type liberals referenced and linked in the post above generally rather than this board.    I see that lot all over Twitter. And Twitter isn't real life but it brings out the lunatics on the far left and MAGA right.  The lunatics on the right are a lost cause for Biden but the reaction of the crazies on the left that are going to go nuts over a more pragmatic Covid strategy and Biden's attempt to appease them while not losing the middle will be fun to watch.  Because taking this back to politics, I think the #1 way Biden loses anti-Trump swing voters is to continue to support restrictions if and when Omicron subsides.  After 60%+ of the country gets Omicron (and not a big deal for most), I think there will be a large majority support for approaches like Monica Ghandi outlined in the link per post above (which I also saw a few weeks back and thought was a good read).

Apparently you should get off of Twitter then.

[Brisketexan 104637]

I thought this was a pretty good article:
Now that science has defanged Covid, it’s time to get on with our lives | Devi Sridhar | The Guardian
I expect as Omicron dwindles over the next 3-4 weeks we start seeing a lot more of these conversations in the US.  And since it's the political forum I think it's going to be very interesting to watch the Biden's administration's approach .  A decent chunk of the far left base falls into the 'everyone should mask', 'schools should shut down each surge', etc. etc.   But the middle majority (who's votes the D's desperately need) are vaxed and ready to move on with their lives.  They won't "bitch" about masking and will comply but see it as largely COVID Theatre (i.e., at Mavs game last night, required to put mask on to enter (didn't see anyone complain), but then 90% had them off as soon as they got to their seats, never put them back on, and nobody cared).  Essentially I think most people are ready to accept risks of an endemic virus given vaccines + therapeutics that will be widely available once this wave is over.  
Pure speculation but I'm betting the Biden administration is absolutely debating how to navigate this to not completely lose the left or the middle that voted for him.  I think we've seen some of this over the past couple of weeks.  CDC had some messaging about "starting to focus on protecting the vulnerable" while they also come out with the free N95 mask policy.   From a pandemic perspective, the free N95 masks are clearly way too late to provide any meaningful benefit in the Omicron wave (if they would have to begin with). 
But I'm betting it's pure strategy.  Around the time masks are actually available a few weeks from now, I bet the messaging around masks, for example, really starts to be about lifting mandates an "protect yourself with an N95 if vulnerable/worried". 
We've already seen the latter messaging the last couple of weeks with CDC guidance but I'm betting that messaging is combined with easing of restrictions to not lose the middle once this wave subsides.
But yeah, I don't envy Biden trying to navigate given the chunk on the left that seem to think policy should be geared toward 'zero Covid'.

Ummm…..I’m guessing that 95% or better of what you would call “the left” on this site functionally agrees with that piece.

As noted below:

I feel like this what we have all been saying for awhile now. Hell, we could have been there early last year. Many of us are just frustrated with the idiots that prevented that from happening. I think that frustration has been misconstrued as a belief that our goal should be zero risk/zero covid. 

And especially the last part. The piece calls for this:

“We still need to test. We still need to vaccinate and combat misinformation. We need to encourage people to wear medical-grade masks such as N95s in crowded and indoor settings. Employers need to recognise and support employees who have been identified as in a shielding group. We also need to review isolation and other policies so they remain safe, but are less disruptive to the functioning of society.”

You think the MAGAs and Fox News would support that? They’d fight it tooth and nail. Which is why this shitshow will drag on much longer than it should. THAT’S what we’re pissed about.

[Dahobbs 17449]

7 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

 But it easy enough to find the leaders in the right still claiming covid is no big deal and still claiming vaccines don't work. 

 

Somehow left out of the end of that sentence and didn't notice in time to edit. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

 

 

Ummm…..I’m guessing that 95% or better of what you would call “the left” on this site functionally agrees with that piece.

As noted below:



And especially the last part. The piece calls for this:

“We still need to test. We still need to vaccinate and combat misinformation. We need to encourage people to wear medical-grade masks such as N95s in crowded and indoor settings. Employers need to recognise and support employees who have been identified as in a shielding group. We also need to review isolation and other policies so they remain safe, but are less disruptive to the functioning of society.”

You think the MAGAs and Fox News would support that? They’d fight it tooth and nail. Which is why this shitshow will drag on much longer than it should. THAT’S what we’re pissed about.

 

 

Nah it’s just because this board is chock full of leftists engaged in a never ending anti trumplican circle jerk thanks due to the evil mods. Just ask the sack. He knows the truth about us. 

[Skipper 6103]

16 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

China is full of fucking shit about everything.  They blamed some omicron cases on mail from canada recently. 

Is it sad that I'm somewhat rooting for an Omicron outbreak during the Olympics just to watch the shitshow?

[Skipper 6103]

15 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

My best advice to you would be to stop reading random Twitter opinions.

You are probably right.  I read Eric Feigl-Ding constant fear porn that gets thousands of likes each tweet and somewhat assume he actually represents the mindset of many on the left.  Poor assumption.

[Anastasis 23397]

10 minutes ago, Skipper said:

 I read Eric Feigl-Ding constant fear porn 

🚨🚨🚨⚠️ ⚠️🚨🚨🚨

[jimmyjazz 45563]

27 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Eric Feigl-Ding

Man, I love Chuck Berry.

[brakeman 28255]

Happy birthday, America!

[We’reTexas 1469]

56 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

That's not true. 

The actual quote from Newsom, as printed in the op ed you cited to, and not speculation by the author of the op ed:

"Big milestone: California now at 93% of people have at least one shot, which is something to celebrate, right?" Michaelson said. "But then when we get to that point, where is the light at the end of the tunnel, when does this state of emergency end, if we're seeing that much progress on vaccinations?"

"We'll know it when we experience it," the governor replied. "... They say about success, it's not a place or a definition, it's a direction. I mean eventually we'll get to that point, but it doesn't seem that there's a numerical match to it. It was, you know, initially it was 60%, then 70%, you add that with herd immunity, antibodies for people who haven't been vaccinated, and now we're realizing, wait a second, I mean, we're many parts, one body, what happens in South Africa can impact us here in the United States, so even if a state does well, that doesn't mean we're out of the woods.

"Look, we're making progress, California has about a third of the hospitalizations we were this time last year, less than a third of the average daily case rates than we did this time last year, that's because of our higher vaccination rates."

That’s fair, but I was arguing that the zero-covid/prohibitionist wings had his ear (and I took his quote from a month ago as dithering on any firm direction forward). In particular, I’d point out Dr. Tomas Aragon, head of CA Public Health, who led SF through a prohibitionist approach, easily the strictest in the nation, and was often at odds with Monica Gandhi. I can’t speak for NYC/DC/etc, but while the idea of approaching COVID as endemic gains traction among public officials in CA, I have a hard time seeing that actually play out without difficulty. 

[GreenspointTexas 9568]

At least omicron has peaked

[Sawbonz 27442]

1 hour ago, Bravo said:

What a buffoon. Someone is scared of the polling data he is reading and his tune is changing fast. Their cases are at double the previous spike last winter and yesterday they had 195 deaths. Then he is also taking into account natural immunity for the unvaccinated? He has never mentioned that before. That is now part of your calculus, Gov? 

It’s like you have now idea how data driven policy works

[Sawbonz 27442]

10 minutes ago, Bravo said:

Yes, poll data. Come on, he is even now talking about the merits of natural immunity. He hasn't done that before. That's now a thing to him? it is quite the stark shift for him.

Your previous post mentions cases being up. He cited hospitalizations being down. Which is the important metric for policy decisions and is highly correlated with vax status. You mentioned 193 deaths yesterday yet nothing about the fact that the vast majority are unvaxed. That matters when making policy decisions for a state approaching 90% vaccination status. And we know a lot more about both natural immunity and vaxed immunity now than we did a year ago. I know when your policy is driven by “it will magically disappear” you have to dig your heels in no matter what science shows you but come on. Are you really that stupid or just a liar?

[JimmyJames 12271]

1 hour ago, Bravo said:

What a buffoon. Someone is scared of the polling data he is reading and his tune is changing fast. Their cases are at double the previous spike last winter and yesterday they had 195 deaths. Then he is also taking into account natural immunity for the unvaccinated? He has never mentioned that before. That is now part of your calculus, Gov? 

Man. Getting up at 4:00 am to troll the board. You are one dedicated troll. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

1 minute ago, Sawbonz said:

Are you really that stupid or just a liar?

He’s both. 

[jimmyjazz 45563]

"Workout" = "troll surly"

[JimmyJames 12271]

7 minutes ago, Bravo said:

I live in EST. Time zones hard for Jimmy. I guess you don't get up and go workout before your day starts? You're so obsessed with me. It's creepy. Troll.

Since you failed to post any pics I’m just gonna assume this is false. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

Just now, jimmyjazz said:

"Workout" = "troll surly"

Dude now you’ve done it. He’s about to post a pic of his running shoes now. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

Just now, Bravo said:

Should've of done this a while back with the non obsessive creepy stop trolling. Blocked.

Damn. Now what am I gonna do?

Oh well. Back to the drawing board. 

[Sawbonz 27442]

52 minutes ago, Bravo said:

Vax status has always been tied to who has died. That is not new. It has always been that way since the vax came out. 

And again that has nothing to do with your “statements of fact“.  you are trying to use these facts to show that his decision doesn’t make sense from an epidemiological or public policy stance. That is pure sophistry or you are just really stupid

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19094]

59 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Your previous post mentions cases being up. He cited hospitalizations being down. Which is the important metric for policy decisions and is highly correlated with vax status. You mentioned 193 deaths yesterday yet nothing about the fact that the vast majority are unvaxed. That matters when making policy decisions for a state approaching 90% vaccination status. And we know a lot more about both natural immunity and vaxed immunity now than we did a year ago. I know when your policy is driven by “it will magically disappear” you have to dig your heels in no matter what science shows you but come on. Are you really that stupid or just a liar?

Edited January 21, 2022 by PenelopeWitherspoon

[Sawbonz 27442]

2 minutes ago, Bravo said:

The fact deaths are still fairly high compared to when Newsome enacted much of his COVID policy

 This is straight bullshit and the area under the curve of the graphs you just showed illustrates that perfectly. Do you really not understand what they show?

 

Unless you for some reason think the goal is zero daily deaths? Get out of here with that bullshit

[Neonmoon 38127]

11 hours ago, Skipper said:

I thought this was a pretty good article:

Now that science has defanged Covid, it’s time to get on with our lives | Devi Sridhar | The Guardian

I expect as Omicron dwindles over the next 3-4 weeks we start seeing a lot more of these conversations in the US.  And since it's the political forum I think it's going to be very interesting to watch the Biden's administration's approach .  A decent chunk of the far left base falls into the 'everyone should mask', 'schools should shut down each surge', etc. etc.   But the middle majority (who's votes the D's desperately need) are vaxed and ready to move on with their lives.  They won't "bitch" about masking and will comply but see it as largely COVID Theatre (i.e., at Mavs game last night, required to put mask on to enter (didn't see anyone complain), but then 90% had them off as soon as they got to their seats, never put them back on, and nobody cared).  Essentially I think most people are ready to accept risks of an endemic virus given vaccines + therapeutics that will be widely available once this wave is over.  

Pure speculation but I'm betting the Biden administration is absolutely debating how to navigate this to not completely lose the left or the middle that voted for him.  I think we've seen some of this over the past couple of weeks.  CDC had some messaging about "starting to focus on protecting the vulnerable" while they also come out with the free N95 mask policy.   From a pandemic perspective, the free N95 masks are clearly way too late to provide any meaningful benefit in the Omicron wave (if they would have to begin with). 

But I'm betting it's pure strategy.  Around the time masks are actually available a few weeks from now, I bet the messaging around masks, for example, really starts to be about lifting mandates an "protect yourself with an N95 if vulnerable/worried". 

We've already seen the latter messaging the last couple of weeks with CDC guidance but I'm betting that messaging is combined with easing of restrictions to not lose the middle once this wave subsides.

But yeah, I don't envy Biden trying to navigate given the chunk on the left that seem to think policy should be geared toward 'zero Covid'.

I don’t evny their job either. It will suck. 

I have stated this weeks ago, but if this is the end, and it hopefully is, thank you baby Jesus, the reframing of the narrative will start. The it’s a flu crowd will pretend they were right all along, and this whole thing was overblown, etc. 

 

[Sawbonz 27442]

1 minute ago, Bravo said:

deaths are higher currently than when he started his policies in in 2020.

Total ICU admissions are way down. As a percentage of new infections they are almost negligible  They are the main indicator of Covid stress to the healthcare system. There is no sound data driven reason for strict restrictions at this point in a population that is 90% vaccinated. People who are dying at this point all have had an ample chance to be vaccinated and chose not to. It’s tragic for the very few who either literally couldn’t get vaccinated or had other issues that prevented the vaccine from giving them meaningful protection, but it is time for society to move on. Acknowledging that based on science is OK.

 

 

I’m not sure what date you cherry picked to show more deaths yesterday than when restrictions “ began” , But your graph of deaths for this week last year to this week puts the lie to the statement.