CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk

[HornOnTheBayou 8,881]

1 hour ago, JimmyJames said:

Man. Getting up at 4:00 am to troll the board. You are one dedicated troll. 

 

1 hour ago, Bravo said:

Time zones hard for Jimmy. 

Sorry @JimmyJames, Bravo is right on this one. 4 AM our time is around lunchtime in Moscow. I assumed he was working through lunch and just ate his borsht at the desk so he could fill up his posting quota quickly and knock off work early on a Friday afternoon.

[HenryJames 65,890]

8 minutes ago, HornOnTheBayou said:

 

Sorry @JimmyJames, Bravo is right on this one. 4 AM our time is around lunchtime in Moscow. I assumed he was working through lunch and just ate his borsht at the desk so he could fill up his posting quota quickly and knock off work early on a Friday afternoon.

[Sawbonz 27,441]

8 minutes ago, Bravo said:

Cherry picked? 196 deaths are pretty much top of anything in 2020 until Dec.

OK I’m starting to think you really are that stupid. Now show the graph of daily new cases going back to the start of 2020 and right below it show deaths graph. Do you want to take a guess on what important variable was different then compared to now? Hint: it wasn’t availability of vaccinations

[DDD Dad 14,252]

13 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Where are the hall monitor and thread linearity posters at?

 

13 hours ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

@DDD Dad

 

[Bozo_Casanova 26,290]

Good news, everyone!

 

[Don Johnson 4,745]

I'm an idiot.  Thought this was Daily Texan

Edited January 21, 2022 by Don Johnson

[Sawbonz 27,441]

5 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Good news, everyone!

 

So Jenny McCarthy, RFK jr, and a few hundred GQPers 

[Anastasis 23,395]

7 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Good news, everyone!

 

 

Is there some logic behind how they assigned people to one of the four quadrants? 

[HenryJames 65,890]

9 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Good news, everyone!

 

Worst. ACL Fest. Ever.

[Sawbonz 27,441]

2 minutes ago, Bravo said:

Really? Approaching the lowest total ICU beds available. Per CA state data. Did you make that up?

 

Link? 

[Sawbonz 27,441]

13 minutes ago, Bravo said:

straight from the CA state covid website. So you made it up. That is pure sophistry or you are just really stupid

https://covid19.ca.gov/state-dashboard/

That is surprising as that is not what we are seeing in north Texas for total ICU utilization. Still, plot it against this time last year and compare avg new cases then vs now and icu usage relative to Covid infections is less than 50% of what it was at that time. So again the data argue for opening up. And you are still full of shit or stupid 

 

And guess when the lowest icu availability occurred?

Edited January 21, 2022 by Sawbonz

[Sawbonz 27,441]

7 minutes ago, Bravo said:

LOL, dude you just got caught making stuff up. 

I made an assumption off my experience in north Texas. I admitted I was wrong about it when you linked the data. It doesn’t change my conclusion that the numbers in Cali support opening up. Do you have data that support continuing restrictions? Because nothing you have posted thus far does. 

Edited January 21, 2022 by Sawbonz

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

On 1/19/2022 at 2:16 PM, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Anti-vaxx assholes do impact my life.  Anti-vaxx idiots are protesting all over New York City and have been since the vaccine passports and mandates started.  They choose to remain unmasked and unvaxxed, so yeah, they fucking impact my life and everyone else who lives here.  

Most of the unvaxxed by now have recovered from Covid. And i regret to inform you PW, that even the CDC is admitting the superiority of natural immunity. They aren’t stating it, but it’s what their most recent data shows. 
 

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e1.htm

From May to November data in California and your beloved New York. Once Delta took over, naturally recovered, but unvaccinated were better across both cases and hospitalizations than two shots and never infected. 
 

“For example, during the week of October 3, compared with rates among unvaccinated persons without a previous COVID-19 diagnosis, rates among vaccinated persons without a previous diagnosis were 6.2-fold lower (95% CI = 6.0–6.4) in California and 4.5-fold lower (95% CI = 4.3–4.7) in New York (Table 2). Further, rates among unvaccinated persons with a previous COVID-19 diagnosis were 29-fold lower (95% CI = 25.0–33.1) than rates among unvaccinated persons without a previous COVID-19 diagnosis in California and 14.7-fold lower (95% CI = 12.6–16.9) in New York. Rates among vaccinated persons who had had COVID-19 were 32.5-fold lower (95% CI = 27.5–37.6) than rates among unvaccinated persons without a previous COVID-19 diagnosis in California and 19.8-fold lower (95% CI = 16.2–23.5) in New York.”

 

“During October 3–16, compared with hospitalization rates among unvaccinated persons without a previous COVID-19 diagnosis, hospitalization rates were 19.8-fold lower (95% CI = 18.2–21.4) among vaccinated persons without a previous COVID-19 diagnosis, 55.3-fold lower (95% CI = 27.3–83.3) among unvaccinated persons with a previous COVID-19 diagnosis, and 57.5-fold lower (95% CI = 29.2–85.8) among vaccinated persons with a previous COVID-19 diagnosis.“

 

The effect of being vaxxed after recovering was quite minimal. None of this is to say that people, especially elderly or with co-morbidities, should seek out getting infected over getting vaccinated. They should get vaccinated. It’s just more evidence that excluding people from society or firing them when they are unvaxxed despite being infected is nonsensical.
 

As more people see this kind of data along with the all the breakthrough infections from omicron that have followed this data, these mandates will be less and less popular.

This all has the caveat that there is no booster data yet and we aren’t discussing booster mandates. No one here will say they want mandates to include boosters.

 

Edited January 21, 2022 by Immaculate Vibes

[Sawbonz 27,441]

7 minutes ago, Bravo said:

This will be the last I answer anything from you because you are disingenuous and argue in bad faith not figuring someone would call you out on your BS. The numbers dont support it when you compare to CA historic data. ICU beds which you mentioned over and over again in your argument as being "way down" when they're way up as a reason to loosen restrictions was proven a lie. Deaths are higher in CA as we speak than a good portion of the pandemic especially when their strict policies started. Cases are double the last wave. It is a pure political move not based on the data Newsome has used in the past to make policy. Hypocrisy.  

Your calling anyone disingenuous is hilarious. You are using death data from 2020, when daily new case rates for the ENTIRE COUNTRY were a fraction of what they currently are in California, only a small percentage of the population had yet to be exposed to Covid, and there was no vaccine available, to say there is an argument NOW to be made for continuing restrictions on a population approaching 90% vaccination rate is either stupid or sophistry. 
 

Edit Total ICU numbers are up. I was mistaken there. It means nothing in a vacuum. If you think it does you are ignorant or stupid. I don’t think you believe it means anything. Hence sophistry

Edited January 21, 2022 by Sawbonz

[JimmyJames 12,271]

5 minutes ago, Bravo said:

This will be the last I answer anything from you because you are disingenuous and argue in bad faith not figuring someone would call you out on your BS.  

Holy shit! Bravo claiming someone is being disingenuous and arguing in bad faith. I’ve seen it all now.

[Sawbonz 27,441]

Just now, Bravo said:

Engage with someone else who may buy your lies and misinformation. You were caught red-handed making shit up. 

lol I admitted where I was wrong. You going to admit all the bullshit you spewed that was wrong?

[JimmyJames 12,271]

21 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

lol I admitted where I was wrong. You going to admit all the bullshit you spewed that was wrong?

We all know the answer to that question.  Might as well ask trump to admit he lied about something. 

[Sawbonz 27,441]

21 minutes ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

Most of the unvaxxed by now have recovered from Covid. And i regret to inform you PW, that even the CDC is admitting the superiority of natural immunity. They aren’t stating it, but it’s what their most recent data shows. 
 

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e1.htm

From May to November data in California and your beloved New York. Once Delta took over, naturally recovered, but unvaccinated were better across both cases and hospitalizations than two shots and never infected. 
 

“For example, during the week of October 3, compared with rates among unvaccinated persons without a previous COVID-19 diagnosis, rates among vaccinated persons without a previous diagnosis were 6.2-fold lower (95% CI = 6.0–6.4) in California and 4.5-fold lower (95% CI = 4.3–4.7) in New York (Table 2). Further, rates among unvaccinated persons with a previous COVID-19 diagnosis were 29-fold lower (95% CI = 25.0–33.1) than rates among unvaccinated persons without a previous COVID-19 diagnosis in California and 14.7-fold lower (95% CI = 12.6–16.9) in New York. Rates among vaccinated persons who had had COVID-19 were 32.5-fold lower (95% CI = 27.5–37.6) than rates among unvaccinated persons without a previous COVID-19 diagnosis in California and 19.8-fold lower (95% CI = 16.2–23.5) in New York.”

 

“During October 3–16, compared with hospitalization rates among unvaccinated persons without a previous COVID-19 diagnosis, hospitalization rates were 19.8-fold lower (95% CI = 18.2–21.4) among vaccinated persons without a previous COVID-19 diagnosis, 55.3-fold lower (95% CI = 27.3–83.3) among unvaccinated persons with a previous COVID-19 diagnosis, and 57.5-fold lower (95% CI = 29.2–85.8) among vaccinated persons with a previous COVID-19 diagnosis.“

 

The effect of being vaxxed after recovering was quite minimal. None of this is to say that people, especially elderly or with co-morbidities, should seek out getting infected over getting vaccinated. They should get vaccinated. It’s just more evidence that excluding people from society or firing them when they are unvaxxed despite being infected is nonsensical.
 

As more people see this kind of data along with the all the breakthrough infections from omicron that have followed this data, these mandates will be less and less popular.

This all has the caveat that there is no booster data yet and we aren’t discussing booster mandates. No one here will say they want mandates to include boosters.

 

The problem with relying on natural immunity alone is you may die to obtain it. The best scenario going forward is probably vaccinated followed by infection. My gut feeling is future variants will be less severe which will help as well. 

 

I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere but have any of the manufacturers changed the vaccination to cover delta and/or omicron? The flu vaccine gets tweaked yearly, and I could see an argument for mandatory boosters for healthcare workers (like we do for flu) and strongly encouraging the elderly and high risk to get boosted if something similar is done for Covid. Getting a booster for Covid 19.1 doesn't make a lot of sense at this point tbh

[Brisketexan 104,636]

8 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

The problem with relying on natural immunity alone is you may die to obtain it. The best scenario going forward is probably vaccinated followed by infection. My gut feeling is future variants will be less severe which will help as well. 

 

I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere but have any of the manufacturers changed the vaccination to cover delta and/or omicron? The flu vaccine gets tweaked yearly, and I could see an argument for mandatory boosters for healthcare workers (like we do for flu) and strongly encouraging the elderly and high risk to get boosted if something similar is done for Covid. Getting a booster for Covid 19.1 doesn't make a lot of sense at this point tbh

There hasn't been clear information on the medium-term plan on this, but we do know that the MRNA manufacturers are formulating a version of the vax aimed at Omicron.  Your scenario seems sound:

- figure out what variants are around/are likely to be around, develop a version of the shot targeted at that variant(s)

- have it be part your annual "respiratory virus" vax package: go in and get your flu shot and your updated COVID shot

 

In an ideal world, that's what I would expect -- that I'll go in sometime this coming fall and get my flu and updated COVID shot.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,093]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

There hasn't been clear information on the medium-term plan on this, but we do know that the MRNA manufacturers are formulating a version of the vax aimed at Omicron.  Your scenario seems sound:

- figure out what variants are around/are likely to be around, develop a version of the shot targeted at that variant(s)

- have it be part your annual "respiratory virus" vax package: go in and get your flu shot and your updated COVID shot

 

In an ideal world, that's what I would expect -- that I'll go in sometime this coming fall and get my flu and updated COVID shot.

Based on the news sources, I believe Pfizer said they would have a vaccine that took into account Omicron soon.  March per this article.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/10/covid-vaccine-pfizer-ceo-says-omicron-vaccine-will-be-ready-in-march.html

[Don Johnson 4,745]

16 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

The problem with relying on natural immunity alone is you may die to obtain it. The best scenario going forward is probably vaccinated followed by infection. My gut feeling is future variants will be less severe which will help as well. 

No doubt and no one should purposely get infected rather than get vaccinated.  But millions have already been infected not by choice.  

Unfortunately, unlike other countries, we have continued to place zero value on immunity gained from prior infection.  And have no plan in place to record or credit those with prior infection.  We tell people if they feel bad, don't even bother getting tested, just stay home.  Or we now mail out and encourage home testing.  So, if we want to incorporate prior infection into our policies/recommendations for many it would have to be based on the honor system.

Same thing goes for being boosted as well.  The definition of fully vaccinated is slowly changing and is not set up to acknowledge those that have been double vaccinated + prior infection.  Instead they are treated as non-vaccinated in many instances, which is absurd.

Edited January 21, 2022 by Don Johnson

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,093]

45 minutes ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

Most of the unvaxxed by now have recovered from Covid. And i regret to inform you PW, that even the CDC is admitting the superiority of natural immunity. They aren’t stating it, but it’s what their most recent data shows. 
 

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e1.htm

From May to November data in California and your beloved New York. Once Delta took over, naturally recovered, but unvaccinated were better across both cases and hospitalizations than two shots and never infected. 
 

“For example, during the week of October 3, compared with rates among unvaccinated persons without a previous COVID-19 diagnosis, rates among vaccinated persons without a previous diagnosis were 6.2-fold lower (95% CI = 6.0–6.4) in California and 4.5-fold lower (95% CI = 4.3–4.7) in New York (Table 2). Further, rates among unvaccinated persons with a previous COVID-19 diagnosis were 29-fold lower (95% CI = 25.0–33.1) than rates among unvaccinated persons without a previous COVID-19 diagnosis in California and 14.7-fold lower (95% CI = 12.6–16.9) in New York. Rates among vaccinated persons who had had COVID-19 were 32.5-fold lower (95% CI = 27.5–37.6) than rates among unvaccinated persons without a previous COVID-19 diagnosis in California and 19.8-fold lower (95% CI = 16.2–23.5) in New York.”

 

“During October 3–16, compared with hospitalization rates among unvaccinated persons without a previous COVID-19 diagnosis, hospitalization rates were 19.8-fold lower (95% CI = 18.2–21.4) among vaccinated persons without a previous COVID-19 diagnosis, 55.3-fold lower (95% CI = 27.3–83.3) among unvaccinated persons with a previous COVID-19 diagnosis, and 57.5-fold lower (95% CI = 29.2–85.8) among vaccinated persons with a previous COVID-19 diagnosis.“

 

The effect of being vaxxed after recovering was quite minimal. None of this is to say that people, especially elderly or with co-morbidities, should seek out getting infected over getting vaccinated. They should get vaccinated. It’s just more evidence that excluding people from society or firing them when they are unvaxxed despite being infected is nonsensical.
 

As more people see this kind of data along with the all the breakthrough infections from omicron that have followed this data, these mandates will be less and less popular.

This all has the caveat that there is no booster data yet and we aren’t discussing booster mandates. No one here will say they want mandates to include boosters.

 

Congrats.  How many unvaxxed assholes died trying to get that immunity?  What about those who now have long COVID?  What about those who took up healthcare resources which caused others to die?  This is the issue with the unvaxxed.  

[GopherRock 1,765]

Finding the pearl in an avalanche of shit, COVID edition.

The Met Council has been sampling and testing for COVID viral material in the effluent flow into the Pigs Eye wastewater treatment plant in St. Paul. This suggests that the peak in the Twin Cities was around January 10, which was 3 weeks after the start of the run-up here.  This is a much better measurement, given that reported cases from testing are backlogged all to hell here in Minnesota.

 

Don't fuck around with those that literally handle all of your shit.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,093]

1 minute ago, Don Johnson said:

No doubt and no one should purposely get infected rather than get vaccinated.  But millions have already been infected not by choice.  

Unfortunately, unlike other countries, we have continued to place zero value on immunity gained from prior infection.  And have no plan in place to record or credit those with prior infection.  We tell people if they feel bad, don't even bother getting tested, just stay home.  Or we now mail out and encourage home testing.  So, if we want to incorporate prior infection into our policies/recommendations for many it would have to be based on the honor system.

Which is why the policy decision of vaccine mandates makes sense, especially given the lack of testing early in the pandemic and the advent of home testing.  

[Skipper 6,103]

5 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Congrats.  How many unvaxxed assholes died trying to get that immunity?  What about those who now have long COVID?  What about those who took up healthcare resources which caused others to die?  This is the issue with the unvaxxed.  

I think this is the key difference between a lot of people on this forum.  You are still pissed and vengeful about the past.  In my mind it is what it is and at this point I'm only worried about policy beginning 3/1 when this wave has swept through.

[lemonlime 5,503]

6 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

No doubt and no one should purposely get infected rather than get vaccinated.  But millions have already been infected not by choice.  

Unfortunately, unlike other countries, we have continued to place zero value on immunity gained from prior infection.  And have no plan in place to record or credit those with prior infection.  We tell people if they feel bad, don't even bother getting tested, just stay home.  Or we now mail out and encourage home testing.  So, if we want to incorporate prior infection into our policies/recommendations for many it would have to be based on the honor system.

Same thing goes for being boosted as well.  The definition of fully vaccinated is slowly changing and is not set up to acknowledge those that have been double vaccinated + prior infection.  Instead they are treated as non-vaccinated in many instances, which is absurd.

Ah, yes, the honor system.  Which if we've learned anything over the last two years, it's that a significant number of people in this country are raging assholes who are fine with killing grandma and cancer patients so long as they can get drunk at Applebee's, and think something as insignificant as wearing a mask is somehow the hugest imposition on their rights equivalent to gas chambers.

[Hefeweizen 5,307]

1 hour ago, Don Johnson said:

I'm an idiot.  Thought this was Daily Texan

It’s actually a pretty easy mistake since the DT thread is just as political.

[Brisketexan 104,636]

1 minute ago, Bravo said:

People will to lose their minds over this idea. They won't be able to discern the point you made if you already had covid as part of public health policy from well you're telling people to go out and get covid on purpose. I have said this many times as European countries already do it and understand this better than we do. This will be labeled anti-vaxxer talk to some not being able to see the simple nuance. 

I don't have a problem with an approach that acknowledges immunity conferred by infection.  The only problem with that is.....

1 minute ago, lemonlime said:

Ah, yes, the honor system.  Which if we've learned anything over the last two years, it's that a significant number of people in this country are raging assholes who are fine with killing grandma and cancer patients so long as they can get drunk at Applebee's, and think something as insignificant as wearing a mask is somehow the hugest imposition on their rights equivalent to gas chambers.

If we can come up with a system where you can present proof of prior infection (a positive result from a lab, not a home test), or presence of infection-caused antibodies (an easy blood test -- see how Texas Cares has done it), I'd have no problem with that counting for "you have immunity" purposes.

But we fight tooth and nail against any system that would require proof of.....ANYTHING.  Vaccination, infection-caused immunity.....ANYTHING.

Presume that we were remotely rational actors, and this all makes sense.

Understand that we are America, and a huge chunk of our population will fight back against anything, just because, and you have your answers.

[Skipper 6,103]

1 minute ago, Bravo said:

People will to lose their minds over this idea. They won't be able to discern the point you made if you already had covid as part of public health policy from well you're telling people to go out and get covid on purpose. I have said this many times as European countries already do it and understand this better than we do. This will be labeled anti-vaxxer talk to some not being able to see the simple nuance. 

I think we can all agree that we are a dumb society but we shouldn't let that dictate policy.  A lot of the current anti-vax propaganda is the fact that the US has actively downplayed benefits of natural immunity (and they are right).  "And if they are lying about that what else are they lying about to get us to take the vaccine".   Dishonesty or active omission has been a problem the entire pandemic.   Like the whole "masks don't work" messaging in an effort to conserve masks for the people that need it.   I get why they did it at the time but that gave unlimited firepower to the anti-maskers.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,093]

7 minutes ago, Skipper said:

I think this is the key difference between a lot of people on this forum.  You are still pissed and vengeful about the past.  In my mind it is what it is and at this point I'm only worried about policy beginning 3/1 when this wave has swept through.

Unfortunately, the unvaxxed will continue to be a problem.  We actually do not know if the next variant will be less deadly (a la Omicron), or will combine the severity of Delta with the ability to escape immunity (both vaxxed and prior infection) like Omicron.

Hospitals are still full of unvaccinated people, and our health care system cannot take much more.  If you do not realize how incredibly selfish and idiotic the unvaxxed are, then I cannot help you.  

I also find it funny that you think I am pissed and vengeful.  I am tired of those of us who did the right thing paying for those that don't.  

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,093]

7 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I don't have a problem with an approach that acknowledges immunity conferred by infection.  The only problem with that is.....

If we can come up with a system where you can present proof of prior infection (a positive result from a lab, not a home test), or presence of infection-caused antibodies (an easy blood test -- see how Texas Cares has done it), I'd have no problem with that counting for "you have immunity" purposes.

But we fight tooth and nail against any system that would require proof of.....ANYTHING.  Vaccination, infection-caused immunity.....ANYTHING.

Presume that we were remotely rational actors, and this all makes sense.

Understand that we are America, and a huge chunk of our population will fight back against anything, just because, and you have your answers.

Well, except providing identification to vote.  Funny how the VENN diagram of those that actively support Voter ID laws would be a 99% overlap of those who are anti Health Passport.  

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,093]

12 minutes ago, Hefeweizen said:

It’s actually a pretty easy mistake since the DT thread is just as political.

The original Daily Texan thread got moved here actually.

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

21 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Which is why the policy decision of vaccine mandates makes sense, especially given the lack of testing early in the pandemic and the advent of home testing.  

This isn’t last January or March. The landscape and numbers have changed. You’re living in the past. It doesn’t make sense to mandate people that have already had documented Covid get vaccinated or be punished. Especially young people. The risk/benefit is not there imo. Especially how some of the whacked out colleges are mandating boosters in students. And that’s without touching school aged children. 
 

15 minutes ago, Skipper said:

I think this is the key difference between a lot of people on this forum.  You are still pissed and vengeful about the past.  In my mind it is what it is and at this point I'm only worried about policy beginning 3/1 when this wave has swept through.

Precisely. Data is catching up more and more to what a lot of people have suggested for many months regarding natural immunity. Some people and posters have prefer to leave head in sand. 
 

One other key point from that study. 
 

“Among the two cohorts with a previous COVID-19 diagnosis, no consistent incidence gradient by time since the previous diagnosis was observed.” 
 

It shows much less waning over time. 

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

7 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Unfortunately, the unvaxxed will continue to be a problem.  We actually do not know if the next variant will be less deadly (a la Omicron), or will combine the severity of Delta with the ability to escape immunity (both vaxxed and prior infection) like Omicron.

Hospitals are still full of unvaccinated people, and our health care system cannot take much more.  If you do not realize how incredibly selfish and idiotic the unvaxxed are, then I cannot help you.  

I also find it funny that you think I am pissed and vengeful.  I am tired of those of us who did the right thing paying for those that don't.  

Unvaxxed are running about 60-65% of Covid admissions this wave. 

[Don Johnson 4,745]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

I don't have a problem with an approach that acknowledges immunity conferred by infection.  The only problem with that is.....

If we can come up with a system where you can present proof of prior infection (a positive result from a lab, not a home test), or presence of infection-caused antibodies (an easy blood test -- see how Texas Cares has done it), I'd have no problem with that counting for "you have immunity" purposes.

But we fight tooth and nail against any system that would require proof of.....ANYTHING.  Vaccination, infection-caused immunity.....ANYTHING.

Presume that we were remotely rational actors, and this all makes sense.

Understand that we are America, and a huge chunk of our population will fight back against anything, just because, and you have your answers.

And this goes back to us refusing to acknowledge that there could be value in immunity from prior infection.  We knew there was value in it and more studies were being done, but set up the system where it would be impossible to "credit" many with it.  

We are "sending out" free home tests to everyone right now, but in your proposal none of those positive tests would count for shit.  You had Covid and were sick, did what we told you and stayed home and quarantined.  Go get your blood drawn and prove it.

I'm talking about boosters as much as I am initial vaccinations.   People who did the right thing, got double vaccinated, had a breakthrough case and do not see the need to get a booster anytime soon.  In many cases they are treated beneath those boosted, sometimes as unvaccinated.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,093]

Just now, Immaculate Vibes said:

This isn’t last January or March. The landscape and numbers have changed. You’re living in the past. It doesn’t make sense to mandate people that have already had documented Covid get vaccinated or be punished. Especially young people. The risk/benefit is not there imo. Especially how some of the whacked out colleges are mandating boosters in students. And that’s without touching school aged children. 
 

Precisely. Data is catching up more and more to what a lot of people have suggested for many months regarding natural immunity. Some people and posters have prefer to leave head in sand. 
 

One other key point from that study. 
 

“Among the two cohorts with a previous COVID-19 diagnosis, no consistent incidence gradient by time since the previous diagnosis was observed.” 
 

It shows much less waning over time. 

Documented COVID.  Do you not see the issue with that given the testing apparatus that is still not sufficient to deal with this shit two years into the pandemic? 

Also, stop bitching about boosters in college students.  Colleges have been mandating vaccines and proofs of vaccines for ages.  

 

[Skipper 6,103]

13 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Unfortunately, the unvaxxed will continue to be a problem.  We actually do not know if the next variant will be less deadly (a la Omicron), or will combine the severity of Delta with the ability to escape immunity (both vaxxed and prior infection) like Omicron.

But you can't plan or make policy around what we don't know.  There is zero basis to assume that somehow the current vax will be more protective against whatever comes next as compared to Omicron for example.  It's certainly possible nothing works with whatever comes next and we're back to square 1.  We'll probably have around 50% of the population with "Omicron" natural immunity by 3/1.  That is layered on top of vaxed and prior natural immunity.   The percentage of US citizens with (i) significant risk factors for hospitalization and (ii) zero immunity of any kind (vaxed and/or prior infection) is going to be extremely small.  The total population of Texas with zero immunity was estimated at 24.5% as of 10/3.  Imagine how low it will be by 3/1 and imagine the subset of those with material risk factors?

IMO - all policy goals and govt messaging should be focused on ways to get that extremely small percentage to get vaccinated (and definitely anyone 65+ that didn't get Omicron or a Booster Boosted).   Not by mandating boosters for teenagers and college students or having vaccine passports apply to 5 year olds with miniscule risk (i.e., New York).  Policies should be targeted and science based.  Not spite based.

 

Edited January 21, 2022 by Skipper

[Passive Aggressive Coach 87]

7 minutes ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

Precisely. Data is catching up more and more to what a lot of people have suggested for many months regarding natural immunity. Some people and posters have prefer to leave head in sand. 

 

One other key point from that study. 
 

“Among the two cohorts with a previous COVID-19 diagnosis, no consistent incidence gradient by time since the previous diagnosis was observed.” 
 

It shows much less waning over time. 

I got run out of town speaking about natural immunity here a few mos back. I can attest to this. All I said I'm going to rely on my natural immunity per a very large study out of Israel. I had it and data was showing natural immunity looks strong. Now there are even more studies demonstrating it. Never spoke out against the vax just said natural immunity appears quite strong and I won't be getting vaxxed. The hate was real. 

Edited January 21, 2022 by Passive Aggressive Coach

[Don Johnson 4,745]

2 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Documented COVID.  Do you not see the issue with that given the testing apparatus that is still not sufficient to deal with this shit two years into the pandemic? 

Also, stop bitching about boosters in college students.  Colleges have been mandating vaccines and proofs of vaccines for ages.  

Vaccines that were needed.  Boosters in college students, who are already double vaxxed and many who have had prior infection, are not needed.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,093]

5 minutes ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

Unvaxxed are running about 60-65% of Covid admissions this wave. 

Are hospitals actually separating the counts of Hospital Admissions BECAUSE of COVID or those who are admitted who also have COVID? We are in NY.  You know what came out?  That in NYC, where we have a much more vaccinated and boosted population than the rest of the state, more than half of "COVID Admissions" were admitted for other reasons than for COVID.  i.e. COVID was not the reason they were admitted, but they did have a positive COVID test. The difference is that in upstate, where you have fewer vaccinated folks (which also means fewer that are both vaccinated and previously infected), COVID being the reason for admission is much higher than it is in NYC.

So I think your number is actually probably higher than 60-65% based on that alone, at least in NY it is.

 

[JimmyJames 12,271]

20 minutes ago, Bravo said:

Holy hell, you even made this shit up to try to cover your other lie. ICU Bed usage TX statewide and DFW. You lie about everything? Stupid or full of shit?

I thought you were done discussing it with him? 

[Sawbonz 27,441]

31 minutes ago, Bravo said:

People will to lose their minds over this idea. They won't be able to discern the point you made if you already had covid as part of public health policy from well you're telling people to go out and get covid on purpose. I have said this many times as European countries already do it and understand this better than we do. This will be labeled anti-vaxxer talk to some not being able to see the simple nuance. 

You’re the only one on here arguing to keep Cali locked down

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

2 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Documented COVID.  Do you not see the issue with that given the testing apparatus that is still not sufficient to deal with this shit two years into the pandemic? 

Also, stop bitching about boosters in college students.  Colleges have been mandating vaccines and proofs of vaccines for ages.  

 

Again, not the same. Do any other vaccines have a complication rate as high for something serious like myocarditis? Conservative estimate of 1 in 3-6,000 of the young male cohort that these mandates in part target. Let me help you out, no other vaccines do. For a virus that causes them minimal harm and the vast majority have already been exposed to. And you can still pop positive eventually. Dumb policy. 

[Sawbonz 27,441]

23 minutes ago, Bravo said:

Holy hell, you even made this shit up to try to cover your other lie. ICU Bed usage TX statewide and DFW. You lie about everything? Stupid or full of shit?

I’ve got private emails from 2 level 1 trauma centers in north Texas stating ICU numbers are low and we can proceed with nonurgent cases. Peak is   projected to be this week. I’m not posting the emails here but there are posters here that know me IRL and can vouch for whether I would have access to those data. You want to argue fine points that do not support your conclusion that Cali should be locked down based on current numbers. You’re wrong

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,093]

2 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

Vaccines that were needed.  Boosters in college students, who are already double vaxxed and many who have had prior infection, are not needed.

Without official proof of prior infection, how can you make that call?  And an honor system is bullshit, because were KNOW there are people that are going to game the system, see the fake vaccine cards.  This is what all you "Immunity" people seem to miss.  There has to be documented proof of that.  We cannot even fucking test well or keep fake vaccine cards off the market.  Honor system does not work.  

I am all for a national database of vaccines and proof of prior infection, but I know how many people will bleat about that.  See the Green pass in France.  If you are willing to do something like the Green Pass (which should be required to be shown to fly, travel, attend sporting events, etc..), then I am ok with allowing prior infection.  However, there will be no ability to test out.  So it is either vax or prior infection unless you have a PROVEN medical reason why you cannot get vaxxed.

[4th&Five 41,461]

 

[MC Fresh Breath 4,074]

I would think most of us don't have an hour during the day to listen to a podcast.  But if you find time, I found this episode interesting:

 

 

If you don't Spotify, it is StarTalk, Jan 18 episode.   The guest was very interesting and I may indeed have to check out his book (add it to my backlog).  He obviously has a grasp of history as well of science. He seemed  actually pretty compassionate towards the ignorant and the misled.  

 

[Sawbonz 27,441]

4 minutes ago, Bravo said:

boy, you're dense and a lying troll. I was calling out the hypocrisy in the change of tune with Newsome due changing public sentiment. Anything else you're going to make up today? That's 3 lies. 

I saw you saying numbers didn’t justify opening up is that not correct?

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,093]

3 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

 

Doctors in NYC have been saying this back before Christmas.  Those who they saw that were boosted who got Omicron, it was mild like a cold.  Those double vaxxed, it was a little worse.  Those with a single J&J, a little worse still.  And those who were unvaccinated, they had a rough fucking time of it even though it was milder overall than prior variants.  

Edited January 21, 2022 by PenelopeWitherspoon

[Sawbonz 27,441]

Just now, Bravo said:

and the spin continues. just stop posting today and regroup. your 2 lies directly contradict the actual data. there is no saving face.

I don’t need to regroup. The data I made my assumptions on are good data. I’m very comfortable saying the available data support Cali opening up. Why do you think they don’t?