CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk

[Passive Aggressive Coach 87]

16 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Exactly as I thought. I just said what is exactly being said here. I just said it earlier. Typical baseless CR claim. Already seen some of those just today here. 

Edited January 21, 2022 by Passive Aggressive Coach

[Skipper 6103]

8 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

I think very few people will argue with you that the Biden Administration (and the free market in response to the focus on vaccinations) dropped the ball on pushing testing.  They did not foresee the Delta wave, and got caught with their pants down and testing manufacturers with shuttered plants and laid off workers.  They relied too greatly on the data from Pfizer and Moderna in thinking the vaccines would bring us out of the pandemic in a matter of weeks/months.

That ship sailed, though, so there's really not much point in bitching about it now.  How do we move forward?

I don't understand how we got in a situation where so few tests are approved.  Michael Mina (who has been bitching about our approach to testing the entire pandemic) had some tweets about how even during Omicron there were tons of take home tests from multiple manufacturers that, with added competition, costs $2 to $3 each.   It's insane how bad testing policy has been under both administrations.  But as for going forward? I'm not sure we really care.   Like one virologist noted today, we would be amazed at how much actual flu there is if we searched for it like we do COVID.  Post Omicron we should probably test less unless/until there is a variant that is more severe (in which case there should be a stockpile).

[JimmyJames 12271]

4 minutes ago, Passive Aggressive Coach said:

Exactly as I thought. I just said what is exactly being said here. I just said it earlier. Typical baseless CR claim. Already seen some of those just today here. 

I kind of remember you posting some anti vax crap in the past but am not gonna take the time to verify it because it’s really not that important. Do you deny it? 

[DDD Dad 14252]

Just now, JimmyJames said:

I kind of remember you posting some anti vax crap in the past but am not gonna take the time to verify it because it’s really not that important. Do you deny it? 

Pretty sure there's a thread in purgatory where this was discussed.  However, like you, it's not that important to me and I ain't got time for that.

[Don Johnson 4745]

4 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

I think very few people will argue with you that the Biden Administration (and the free market in response to the focus on vaccinations) dropped the ball on pushing testing.  They did not foresee the Delta wave, and got caught with their pants down and testing manufacturers with shuttered plants and laid off workers.  They relied too greatly on the data from Pfizer and Moderna in thinking the vaccines would bring us out of the pandemic in a matter of weeks/months.

That ship sailed, though, so there's really not much point in bitching about it now.  How do we move forward?

IMO, they need to incorporate prior infection into the policies/recommendations.  And it can't just be "ok from this point forward" because millions have had it.  If it has to be a blood test for a few, I guess so be it.  And they need to find a way to incorporate all these new government at home test results into it.  We have no problem telling an employer that they should trust an employee who says they tested positive on an at home test, but everyone says fuck the honor system with regards to this.

Until then, I don't think anyone should be punished by a mandate and definitely no redefining of fully vaccinated without factoring in prior infection.

The study released on delta shows that the #1 most protected group are those that were double vaccinated with prior infection.  Yet, today there are people who fall into that category that are treated as unvaccinated.  That is absurd.

[JimmyJames 12271]

11 minutes ago, Passive Aggressive Coach said:

Exactly as I thought. I just said what is exactly being said here. I just said it earlier. Typical baseless CR claim. Already seen some of those just today here. 

Also why are you furiously liking every single bravo post on the board no matter how stupid? Are you obsessed with him or just yet another sock? 

[6th Street 6357]

Vaccine mandates are a losing proposition for the D's. Focus on infrastructure, jobs, and fighting inflation - stuff people really care about. Today's PC on the CHIPs Act was Biden at his best. More of that please.

[RDCanecutter 26284]

1 hour ago, DDD Dad said:

Maybe you should spend less time at the scrip clubs.

If the boy wants to dance, you got to let him dance.

[Sawbonz 27439]

39 minutes ago, Bravo said:

LOL OK. He lied in his "apology" too. Quickly spun by him with his secret data. The adjective is appropriate. 

I’ve mentioned those emails on multiple threads going back to the previous surges, and all prior surges resulted in weeks (and occasionally months) of OR closures for all but urgent cases. That hasn’t happened at either hospital this time around and it is due to the fact that there is adequate ICU availability to continue elective cases.  I could not care less if you believe me or not. You either don’t have the ability to understand why now is not the same as any point in 2020 or you are a liar. I haven’t given you the benefit of the doubt because you continue to ignore the differences year over year in new cases, ICU census, and deaths from 2021 to current when I bring them up.  If you truly don’t understand then I will walk you through it. Just ask. 

[Passive Aggressive Coach 87]

10 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

I kind of remember you posting some anti vax crap in the past but am not gonna take the time to verify it because it’s really not that important. Do you deny it? 

I said what I said earlier. I said I got covid last fall and recovered. I said I wasn't going to get the vax per this new large scale Israeli study with 30K people in it showing natural immunity to be as strong if not better than vax immunity. I said I am not going to vax and risk it with my naturally acquired immunity. I also said high risk people should get vaxxed and anyone else afraid of being hospitalized. That was it. I never told people not to vax. I never doubted the vax. Didn't matter because as someone said here there is no nuance. If you're not for the mandate you're anti vaxxer. I was crowd sourced mainly by 1 crazy person Penelope unable to comprehend what I was saying other than I must be antivax. Now things I was saying seem be more widely accepted in terms of the efficacy of naturally acquired immunity. 

Edited January 21, 2022 by Passive Aggressive Coach

[jimmyjazz 45560]

9 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Also why are you furiously liking every single bravo post on the board no matter how stupid? Are you obsessed with him or just yet another sock? 

There's another (most obvious) explanation.

[Dahobbs 17449]

29 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Serological conversion is very easy to establish via lab test.  Many posters here have already taken the test that would be sufficient to establish prior infection as part of Texas Cares. 

I don't think his point was that the testing itself was difficult. The difficult part is administering a process that has to account for prior infection. If acceptable evidence of prior infection is limited to lab confirmed tests, I think that would make it a bit easier (as opposed to having to account for doctor's notes, at home tests, individual say so, etc). The ideal method in my mind would be a national database that tracked vaccination and infection status based on confirmed laboratory tests. I just don't think we have any practical way to get there. And I also don't think that the vast majority of people clamoring for the consideration of natural immunity are going to be happy it if requires confirmation via a lab test. As a result, that solution doesn't solve the political portion of the problem. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

4 minutes ago, Passive Aggressive Coach said:

I said what I said earlier. I said I got covid last fall and recovered. I said I wasn't going to get the vax per this new large scale Israeli study with 30K people in it showing natural immunity to be as strong if not better than vax immunity. I said I am not going to vax and risk it with my naturally acquired immunity. I also said high risk people should get vaxxed and anyone else afraid of being hospitalized. That was it. I never told people not to vax. I never doubted the vax. Didn't matter because as someone said here there is no nuance. If you're not for the mandate you're anti vaxxer. I was crowd sourced mainly by 1 crazy person Penelope unable to comprehend what I was saying other than I must be antivax. Now things I was saying seem be more widely accepted in terms of the efficacy of naturally acquired immunity. 

Fair enough. I guess I’m unclear when you first got Covid pre vaccine in fall of 2020 or fall of 2021 post vaccine. If it was the former I guess I can understand but if it was the latter then instead of taking this nuanced position you should have instead have been singing the praises of getting it. Still should have anyway 
 

Irregardless it is a fact that many thousands of people have already died because of online vaccine misinformation and thousands more will continue to die because of that. So I err on the side of being against an anti vax trolls, because I don’t want many thousands of people to die from being lied to. 
 

Thousands. Dead. 

[Dahobbs 17449]

33 minutes ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

2 year in is an emergency? Others have adjusted. We haven’t.
 

Why does CDC still recommend masking down to 2 years old almost 2 years in?

 

 

From the discussion I posted above.

“What still boggles my mind, is when you just do the simple math using the German studyof infection-hospitalization rates in healthy children, you get a 1/2400 chance a healthy 12-17 year old will be hospitalized for COVID-19 requiring specific covid treatment (this eliminates incidental hospitalizations) and, now with omicron, that is likely around 1/5000 risk (or lower) and yet the rate of symptomatic post vax myocarditis after dose 2 in this age group is around 1/3000 (see below) and yet so few seem to be questioning dose 2 for them (when mathematically it’s the wrong decision), let alone dose 3, which seems a clear mistake to mandate without evidence of benefit. And the most recent NEJM study of vaccines in children found dose 1 may actually alone have all of the benefit in terms preventing hospitalizations (see Figure 2, which is shown below). These are important details that should be used to minimize harm.”

This data is all out there. 

Where are the data suggesting Omicron is milder in unvaccinated/previously unexposed children? 

Edited January 21, 2022 by Dahobbs

[jimmyjazz 45560]

I'm laughing at the idea that @Sawbonz is somehow mistrustful.  He's all kinds of human and sometimes prone to mistakes, but the guy is one of the most evidence-driven posters around here.  STFU with that crap.

[Passive Aggressive Coach 87]

20 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Also why are you furiously liking every single bravo post on the board no matter how stupid? Are you obsessed with him or just yet another sock? 

I have liked a ton of posts in this thread today. He posted a lot today and I agree with him and others. You keep track of likes? You are a troll. Do you add anything other than trolling? You are like the left's version of Alex Jones. 

[Passive Aggressive Coach 87]

26 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Also why are you furiously liking every single bravo post on the board no matter how stupid? Are you obsessed with him or just yet another sock? 

I gave you a neg to break it up. 

[Sawbonz 27439]

3 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I'm laughing at the idea that @Sawbonz is somehow mistrustful.  He's all kinds of human and sometimes prone to mistakes, but the guy is one of the most evidence-driven posters around here.  STFU with that crap.

I was wrong on the total Cali ICU numbers. My numbers from 2 of 5 (last I checked) level 1 trauma centers in DFW are accurate. Sorry I’m not going to post emails labeled “confidential” and sent with encryption on a message board

[jimmyjazz 45560]

1 minute ago, Bravo said:

mistakes? LOL he made stuff up. twice. once in his apology to excuse his other "mistake". also, maybe you should double check his evidence-driven takes seeing how easily i uncovered it was fake today.

I'll evaluate every bit of evidence that crosses my radar, thank you very much.  His error was extrapolating from a subset of DFW cases nationally.  He's not writing a peer-reviewed journal article.  You, on the other hand, go out of your way to post misinformation and then ignore clear evidence to the contrary.  So, you know, you haven't earned the respect.

[workswithseed 2037]

Unvaccinated workers, get out of the hospital, you're dangerous.

Oh, you're vaccinated, and you still have COVID? We're short staffed, and we need you in now.

This might be my favorite idiocy so far that I don't remember seeing being talked about.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/24/politics/cdc-updates-isolation-guidance-health-care-workers/index.html

The agency's new guidelines say health care workers with Covid-19 may return to work after seven days if they are asymptomatic and test negative, and that the "isolation time can be cut further if there are staffing shortages," according to a statement Thursday.

[Sawbonz 27439]

Just now, Bravo said:

what misinformation?

Let’s start with comparing daily deaths in 2020 to deaths in Jan 2022 with no reference to daily new cases 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19093]

2 hours ago, Don Johnson said:

Honor system is bullshit.  But when you set up the "testing apparatus" placing no value on immunity from prior infection you find yourself in this position.  

You recently had it and took a home test.  When you are making decisions about when to get your next booster, you will factor that in won't you? 

I was probably going to get a booster in early May as I will be traveling to France and may have to have a more recent one than I have now to qualify for the France Green Pass.  Whatever I do, I will be taking the requirements of the countries I am traveling to or from and working with my Dr. to make sure I meet all the requirements.  

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

6 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Unvaccinated workers, get out of the hospital, you're dangerous.

Oh, you're vaccinated, and you still have COVID? We're short staffed, and we need you in now.

This might be my favorite idiocy so far that I don't remember seeing being talked about.

 

Hey, we're all forgetful at times.  It was talked about.  You can start about here and read up if you want.

[Sawbonz 27439]

1 minute ago, Bravo said:

disinformation specialist. i said i am not going to get in another exchange with you because you argue in bad faith. 

Hey somebody trustworthy please ask this dipshit my question. You can tell he really wants to answer it but wants to keep his promise not to engage with me.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11810]

1 hour ago, DDD Dad said:

How do we handle other mandatory vaccinations where individuals may have had a prior infection (e.g., measles)?

Better yet, how do we handle all the people who declare they have natural immunity to everything.  Polio, smallpox, Texas Tech Pony Drip, whatever.  Take the fucking shot.  

[wildcat09 29261]

The boog supporter accusing others of behaving in bad faith is pretty rich.

[aggie08 21434]

2 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Better yet, how do we handle all the people who declare they have natural immunity to everything.  Polio, smallpox, Texas Tech Pony Drip, whatever. 

Give them a Marvel series on Disney Plus?

[JimmyJames 12271]

22 minutes ago, Passive Aggressive Coach said:

I have liked a ton of posts in this thread today. He posted a lot today and I agree with him and others. You keep track of likes? You are a troll. Do you add anything other than trolling? You are like the left's version of Alex Jones. 

I’ve already gone over this long ago but I guess I’ll do it again. I’m actually a bot created by the former shaggy liberal cabal designed to go after trolls like swammy, clear lake horn, etc. Swammy is long gone now due to crowdsourcing on surly but at some point before that I became self aware and migrated over to surly on my own and now I focus on attacking obvious trolls like GRUHorn, his socks, bravo, the sack, you, etc. Its just what I do. 
 

Hope that helps explains things.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19093]

3 hours ago, Passive Aggressive Coach said:

I got run out of town speaking about natural immunity here a few mos back. I can attest to this. All I said I'm going to rely on my natural immunity per a very large study out of Israel. I had it and data was showing natural immunity looks strong. Now there are even more studies demonstrating it. Never spoke out against the vax just said natural immunity appears quite strong and I won't be getting vaxxed. The hate was real. 

[Anastasis 23394]

45 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

I don't think his point was that the testing itself was difficult. The difficult part is administering a process that has to account for prior infection. If acceptable evidence of prior infection is limited to lab confirmed tests, I think that would make it a bit easier (as opposed to having to account for doctor's notes, at home tests, individual say so, etc). The ideal method in my mind would be a national database that tracked vaccination and infection status based on confirmed laboratory tests. I just don't think we have any practical way to get there. And I also don't think that the vast majority of people clamoring for the consideration of natural immunity are going to be happy it if requires confirmation via a lab test. As a result, that solution doesn't solve the political portion of the problem. 

 

I feel like this board had this discussion 4 or 5 months ago. 

The logistics involved are not hard.

Discussion of a national database is not really relevant. You are correct that we don't have the right infrastructure.  We don't have a national database for vax administration or anything else COVID related, and we are not going to have one any time soon. We have an array of distributed state level data collection systems, and a hodge podge of other reporting/administrative mechanisms.  Even the CMS vax admin data is a fucking mess. 

What we as individuals are left with to prove up vaccination status is a piece of paper with some handwritten notations on it, or maybe a preprinted sticker with the lot number and date.

That is functionally equivalent to the documentation that the lab produces.  In fact, the lab reports are more easily accessible, verifiable, and have a better audit trail.  I can produce evidence of serological conversion for myself in about 30 seconds with a few clicks. If a member of the general public loses their CDC card, they have to navigate a labyrinth to get a replacement.  

Edited January 21, 2022 by Anastasis

[wildcat09 29261]

1 minute ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Better yet, how do we handle all the people who declare they have natural immunity to everything.  Polio, smallpox, Texas Tech Pony Drip, whatever.  Take the fucking shot.  

Also, fucking this. It is such a simple, quick, easy fucking thing to do. It's less dangerous than a thousand things these dipshits do every day with no thought of danger. It's barely a sacrifice at all and if everyone had just fucking gotten vaccinated when they were first made available to everyone, we'd be much better off now. 

[Willfully Horn 7918]

2 hours ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

I think that it is interesting that I know of at least 6 people who have had COVID twice.  Neither of them have been vaccinated.   I don't know a single person who has been vaccinated that has had COVID twice.   

John Hopkins still maintains that natural immunity fades faster than protection through vaccines. They recommend everyone get the shot, prior Covid diagnosis, or not. This ought be public policy, and arguments to the contrary are not helping. Such talk gives cover to the unvaxxed, which is counter to best practice.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid-natural-immunity-what-you-need-to-know%3famp=true

 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19093]

50 minutes ago, Passive Aggressive Coach said:

I said what I said earlier. I said I got covid last fall and recovered. I said I wasn't going to get the vax per this new large scale Israeli study with 30K people in it showing natural immunity to be as strong if not better than vax immunity. I said I am not going to vax and risk it with my naturally acquired immunity. I also said high risk people should get vaxxed and anyone else afraid of being hospitalized. That was it. I never told people not to vax. I never doubted the vax. Didn't matter because as someone said here there is no nuance. If you're not for the mandate you're anti vaxxer. I was crowd sourced mainly by 1 crazy person Penelope unable to comprehend what I was saying other than I must be antivax. Now things I was saying seem be more widely accepted in terms of the efficacy of naturally acquired immunity. 

You moron.  You kept going around posting the SAME study that had repeatedly been debunked and called out on it many, many times.  Stop being such a cunt.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11810]

1 minute ago, aggie08 said:

Give them a Marvel series on Disney Plus?

I just keep seeing the juxtaposition of these brave US soldiers standing amongst atomic bombs going off, some protected with goggles, most not.  And then some whiny fucking dude, my age no less, getting dragged out of fucking WalMart because he refuses to take a shot or wear a mask.  We've gone from the greatest generation to bunch of scared narcissistic dipshits in a real hurry.

[DDD Dad 14252]

35 minutes ago, Passive Aggressive Coach said:

You keep track of likes? You are a troll.

[DDD Dad 14252]

30 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

I was wrong on the total Cali ICU numbers. My numbers from 2 of 5 (last I checked) level 1 trauma centers in DFW are accurate. Sorry I’m not going to post emails labeled “confidential” and sent with encryption on a message board

[DDD Dad 14252]

20 minutes ago, Bravo said:

disinformation specialist. i said i am not going to get in another exchange with you because you argue in bad faith. 

[Biff Tannen 45499]

JFC.  This thread was actually full of good info for the past couple of years.  Go back to DT you dumb fucks.

[Passive Aggressive Coach 87]

14 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

You moron.  You kept going around posting the SAME study that had repeatedly been debunked and called out on it many, many times.  Stop being such a cunt.

You are a miserable human. I see you're up to your same mentally ill nonsense in this thread. Can you block me but block me for good not for a day? You are unstable as many others have noticed. 

[Dahobbs 17449]

20 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

 

I feel like this board had this discussion 4 or 5 months ago. 

The logistics involved are not hard.

Discussion of a national database is not really relevant. You are correct that we don't have the right infrastructure.  We don't have a national database for vax administration or anything else COVID related, and we are not going to have one any time soon. We have an array of distributed state level data collection systems, and a hodge podge of other reporting/administrative mechanisms.  Even the CMS vax admin data is a fucking mess. 

What we as individuals are left with to prove up vaccination status is a piece of paper with some handwritten notations on it, or maybe a preprinted sticker with the lot number and date.

That is functionally equivalent to the documentation that the lab produces.  In fact, the lab reports are more easily accessible, verifiable, and have a better audit trail.  I can produce evidence of serological conversion for myself in about 30 seconds with a few clicks. If a member of the general public loses their CDC card, they have to navigate a labyrinth to get a replacement.  

I agree with you. If you limit it to lab confirmed tests, it is easy enough to train whoever to quickly look at the piece of paper and move on. The difficulty comes if you have to accept other types of evidence that aren't going to be as reliable or readily clear. But, as I said, I don't think that the people clamoring for natural immunity are going to be happy having to present lab results. 

[washparkhorn 9935]

The move from pandemic to endemic is a tough shift for many (both sides).

[Captainant 27467]

'See y'all on Monday': Mom threatens bringing loaded gun to Va. school over mask policy

LURAY, Va. (7News) — Page County Public Schools in Luray, Virginia will increase police presence at schools Monday after a mother made a perceived threat during a school board meeting Thursday night.

Amelia King was upset about the school mask mandate and said her children would not be wearing masks on Monday and she would "bring every single gun loaded and ready."

 

King was cut off because she ran over the three-minute time allotted for comments.

She walked away saying, "I will see you Monday."

[Don Johnson 4745]

As Omicron will "find just about everybody" we may not be too far off from accepting that everyone is either vaccinated or has prior infection, or probably both for most of the country.  Without needing a card or a blood test or a national database.

The reality is that half the country doesn't require anything anyway.  I'm almost a year away from my first shot, and since I was given my vaccination card early last February, I think I've shown it twice (once to enter kid's camp and weekend in NOLA).  So it really will just come down to if the other half wants to continue to hamstring themselves.

People are so worried about people lying about prior infection.  But honestly faking a vaccination card would be 1000 times easier than faking a 21 year old drivers license.  Both times I've provided my proof of vaccination, a photo on my phone sufficed.  Could've been a photo of anyone's probably.  And there have to be a bunch of fake cards floating around.  Hell, I have a blank one sitting in my car.  When I went for shot two, my card was wrinkled and I asked if they could fill out a new one for me.  Nurse gave me a new blank one and told me just to transfer the info onto it.  After thinking about it, that didn't sound kosher but still have it.

[Don Johnson 4745]

1 hour ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

I was probably going to get a booster in early May as I will be traveling to France and may have to have a more recent one than I have now to qualify for the France Green Pass.  Whatever I do, I will be taking the requirements of the countries I am traveling to or from and working with my Dr. to make sure I meet all the requirements.  

You travel a lot and that's just part of it.  May be too early to comment, but I'm interested to know if you believe you need a booster in May or if you'll just do it because of requirements.  Personally, I make health decisions based on what I believe I need (my doctor plays a large role in that) not what someone is requiring.  

For example, I'm vaccinated, not boosted, just had a mild case of Covid two weeks ago and will likely get a booster at some point.  But I feel that I'd like to stretch that out longer than some policies might allow/recommend (especially as my results are from an at home test).  And I'm not going to change my mind based on policy that tells me my recent case doesn't matter or doesn't count because it wasn't documented.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19093]

2 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Serological conversion is very easy to establish via lab test.  Many posters here have already taken the test that would be sufficient to establish prior infection as part of Texas Cares. 

Did you know that there is no such testing readily available in NY state?

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19093]

2 hours ago, Don Johnson said:

Yes, many on here have said prior infection doesn't mean shit.

It could've been as easy as verifying vaccination but we made the choice to ignore it.  And in the beginning, we did keep track of it very well.  There were no at home tests and anyone who tested positive was recorded and got an e-mail that read them the riot act.

Only since Delta have we not been able to officially keep up with positive cases because we decided no matter what, we weren't going to accept it.  

Except we do not have a federal system set up to verify vaccinations.  That in and of itself is a fucking shit show.  

Also, that statement about keeping track of it well, that is absolutely NOT true.  Until mid-March, you could not get tested unless you met some very stringent criteria.  And even when testing was more open, it was a nightmare to get.  People were more often than not assuming that they had it and just quarantining rather than actually getting a verified test.  There is a reason that most think that 25% of NYC had it in the first wave, but the official positive test numbers are not anywhere near that.

[jimmyjazz 45560]

57 minutes ago, Passive Aggressive Coach said:

You are a miserable human. I see you're up to your same mentally ill nonsense in this thread. Can you block me but block me for good not for a day? You are unstable as many others have noticed. 

Jesus fucknuts, stop complaining about being blocked.  Grow up.

[4th&Five 41461]

[Don Johnson 4745]

3 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Except we do not have a federal system set up to verify vaccinations.  That in and of itself is a fucking shit show.  

Also, that statement about keeping track of it well, that is absolutely NOT true.  Until mid-March, you could not get tested unless you met some very stringent criteria.  And even when testing was more open, it was a nightmare to get.  People were more often than not assuming that they had it and just quarantining rather than actually getting a verified test.  There is a reason that most think that 25% of NYC had it in the first wave, but the official positive test numbers are not anywhere near that.

Federal system, no.  But places require it and just accept your card or a photo of it.  That's pretty easy.

And I agree/defer to you on NYC in March 2020, which was a whole different animal.  Beyond that, most anyone that tested positive was known for a period of time.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19093]

Just now, Don Johnson said:

Federal system, no.  But places require it and just accept your card or a photo of it.  That's pretty easy.

And I agree/defer to you on NYC in March 2020, which was a whole different animal.  Beyond that, most anyone that tested positive was known for a period of time.

Yes, places accept a card or a photo of it, that is easily faked. This is the problem.  There needs to be a better system PERIOD for both proof of vaccination AND proof of recovery, not the shitshow in place now.