CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk

[washparkhorn 9935]

Rat fucking sounds like Pagan performance art. I blame Mutual of Omaha’s Wild Kingdom and their wrestling with animals in the dirt and mud.
 

AI will need to delete that programming to prevent the development of hippies and goat-ropers. 

Edited January 22, 2022 by washparkhorn

[JimmyJames 12271]

1 hour ago, washparkhorn said:

Rat fucking sounds like Pagan performance art. I blame Mutual of Omaha’s Wild Kingdom and their wrestling with animals in the dirt and mud.
 

AI will need to delete that programming to prevent the development of hippies and goat-ropers. 

Personally I never got the attraction but the sack seemed to enjoyi it. Seemed kinda pricy though. 

Hell we all have our proclivities! 

[JimmyJames 12271]

4 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

Kids don’t need to hide their faces with masks nor do they need a vaccine from something that is less deadly to them than the flu. I mean unless it’s a 300 pound 13 year old, zero reason for them to even think about Covid.  What leftists have done to kids the last two years in the name of Covid is some shameful shit and makes me hate them more than I already did.  

I agree that kids should neber eber be forced to watch rats fuck.  No matter what the cost. 

[fattyflattie 4636]

2 hours ago, JimmyJames said:

At least with a turkey you had to chase the fucker around. 

You hunt Easterns?  The Rios at our place, the best turkey call you can get is to simply to slam your truck door.  Wait 5 mins and they’ll be there.  

[fattyflattie 4636]

4 hours ago, Anastasis said:

What detail do you need exactly that you can't find?  If you want semi-quant spike it is test #164090 at LabCorp: https://www.labcorp.com/tests/164090/sars-cov-2-semi-quantitative-total-antibody-spike

Thanks for this. I need to do this as have had 2 bouts with what seems exactly like rona only to negative test.  Double moderna but would like to know if I've ever had it. 

Edited January 22, 2022 by fattyflattie

[Biff Tannen 45499]

9 hours ago, Don Johnson said:

You travel a lot and that's just part of it.  May be too early to comment, but I'm interested to know if you believe you need a booster in May or if you'll just do it because of requirements.  Personally, I make health decisions based on what I believe I need (my doctor plays a large role in that) not what someone is requiring.  

For example, I'm vaccinated, not boosted, just had a mild case of Covid two weeks ago and will likely get a booster at some point.  But I feel that I'd like to stretch that out longer than some policies might allow/recommend (especially as my results are from an at home test).  And I'm not going to change my mind based on policy that tells me my recent case doesn't matter or doesn't count because it wasn't documented.

Read this with a Hank Hill accent. It’s awesome.  

[HenryJames 65890]

 

[Sawbonz 27437]

8 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

Thanks for this. I need to do this as have had 2 bouts with what seems exactly like rona only to negative test.  Double moderna but would like to know if I've ever had it. 

There are several adenovirus strains and apparently they are making a pretty big comeback. They can put you down pretty good

[Anastasis 23394]

9 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

Thanks for this. I need to do this as have had 2 bouts with what seems exactly like rona only to negative test.  Double moderna but would like to know if I've ever had it. 

If you have been vaccinated and want to know if you have been infected, you need this one: https://www.labcorp.com/tests/164068/sars-cov-2-antibodies-nucleocapsid

It picks up a different type of antibody that the vaccinated will not produce, as opposed to the spike AB that both vax and recovered individuals will produce. 

[Sawbonz 27437]

46 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

 

Yeah but you get a sweet book deal though 

[TwiceHorn 31283]

21 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

Nobody has ever said prior infection doesn't confer a significant degree of immunity. What a bunch of us do say is that previous infection can't be used as a factor in national public health policy because there's no practical way to easily verify it. We're shit enough at administering virtually any response, but a broad vaccine requirement is simple to administer. The more complexity you add, the harder it becomes and the less effective it as as policy. 

Maybe had adults been in charge of the federal policy at the very beginning, things could be different and we'd have more capacity in place to carry out something more complex. But we had a bunch of grifters more intent on stealing PPE from states and selling it on a quasi-black market than in managing any serious response to covid. 

And trying desperately to avoid any negative effects on the upcoming election by any tactic other than actual leadership.

[Sawbonz 27437]

24 minutes ago, Bravo said:

Many people have had it and never knew. I don't know the updated statistic but I do remember early on in the pandemic hearing over and over again roughly 50% of people are asymptomatic. It's also why COVID spreads so efficiently. There are large numbers of people not even knowing they have it. 

CDC estimates roughly 1 in 4 total cases are reported last update I checked. That percentage obviously goes down as testing goes up but assuming 70M reported cases to date that is roughly 280M cases. Obviously some are reinfection, but the majority of Americans have been exposed at this point

[Sawbonz 27437]

4 minutes ago, Bravo said:

I imagine there would be a lot of people surprised they had covid and never knew it. It is good in a way as it beefs up their immune system to future exposure. 

It’s good if it doesn’t kill you to acquire it

Covid is no longer a novel virus, and at this point the public health leaders need to be explaining what that means and how policy needs to evolve going forward 

Edited January 22, 2022 by Sawbonz

[Sawbonz 27437]

1 minute ago, Bravo said:

I am talking about the asymptomatic cases. Once again don't go down the path of me saying people should go out and get Covid for the immunity. It's not what I'm saying. Any talk about natural immunity here quickly goes to that then immediately this is vaccine misinformation and antivaxxer. 

Sure. My point is when you are virus naive you have no way of knowing if you are going to have a couple of sneezes or die drowning in your own body fluids with blood clots in your brain and heart. 

[Sawbonz 27437]

1 minute ago, Bravo said:

Why isn't natural immunity even in the US public health equation though like several European countries who seem to understand it more? It's very odd. It's very logical to have it included in some way in public policy but it's completely ignored in the US. 

It’s stupid to talk about in the setting of a novel virus. I think going forward it will be. See my edit above. 

[Brisketexan 104628]

 

This response is solid:

“I really don't understand how these people are so sure that they're right, especially early on when we knew almost nothing about the virus. I'm sure there's some kind of disorder for this, beyond just plain old narcissism.”

I wish more people understood the concept of risk assessment and mitigation when the nature and facts around the risk have high levels of uncertainty.

“Making what we believe is the best decision with the data we have” is the order of the day. And because of the limited nature of that data, some of those decisions will SURELY turn out to be sub-optimal in hindsight.

It would have helped if public health officials better communicated that concept as well. GOLL and I have discussed this, and Fauci’s inability to answer any question with “we don’t know” - especially when that is the truthful answer - is maddening. It’s a nice virus, there remains a lot we don’t know. So acknowledge that. And as information changes or evolves, so should our approach. See discussion below.

There are several adenovirus strains and apparently they are making a pretty big comeback. They can put you down pretty good

I had an annoying cold late November, and it was just that, not Covid. It’s going around.

CDC estimates roughly 1 in 4 total cases are reported last update I checked. That percentage obviously goes down as testing goes up but assuming 70M reported cases to date that is roughly 280M cases. Obviously some are reinfection, but the majority of Americans have been exposed at this point

Man, that seems high. Look at how many in the Texas Cares survey have no prior infection (like me). I think that 1 in 4 is high. But agreed, there are many more people with infection-acquired immunity than there are reported cases.

It’s good if it doesn’t kill you to acquire it

Covid is no longer a novel virus, and at this point the public health leaders need to be explaining what that means and how policy needs to evolve going forward 

It’s stupid to talk about in the setting of a novel virus. I think going forward it will be. See my edit above. 

Two good posts. Information, and the virus, has evolved. So should our approach. And I’d like to hear a forward-looking approach instead of reactionary from public health leaders.

[DDD Dad 14252]

1 hour ago, Sawbonz said:

There are several adenovirus strains and apparently they are making a pretty big comeback. They can put you down pretty good

Flurona is not fun. 
 

Thankfully so far no shortness of breath but lots of fatigue, congestion (nasal and chest) and coughHoping I started Tamiflu soon enough. Dr struggled over ordering the COVID antiviral pill but went with flu since he was worried about issues using both. 

[Sawbonz 27437]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Man, that seems high

Just looked again their data run to September only so it’s definitely possible with the increase in testing with omicron it may have dropped, though with more people vaxed and a milder variant there may be a higher percentage of asymptomatics not testing. Early in 2021 it was 1 in 7 or 8 IIRC and they use the same methodology they use to estimate flu based on reported positives Estimate based on reported cdc

they also have a much higher estimated total deaths 921K through September 2021

 

[formermav43 4599]

My wife (who is fully vaccinated and had COVID in September) went in a couple of weeks ago to get tested. Negative for COVID, positive for flu. She was VERY sick for about a week, much more so than with COVID actually. It’s definitely out there right now.

[Sawbonz 27437]

13 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Flurona is not fun. 
 

Thankfully so far no shortness of breath but lots of fatigue, congestion (nasal and chest) and coughHoping I started Tamiflu soon enough. Dr struggled over ordering the COVID antiviral pill but went with flu since he was worried about issues using both. 

Damn that sucks. I had the flu first year med school. Flu season came early that year before the shots were out and there was no such thing as tamiflu. I guess it’s frowned upon but I use Afrin for a few days for severe nasal congestion. Sudafed if no HTN issues.
 

Load up on zinc and vitamin C. May be  placebo but can’t hurt

 

also 

 

 

[DDD Dad 14252]

2 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Damn that sucks. I had the flu first year med school. Flu season came early that year before the shots were out and there was no such thing as tamiflu. I guess it’s frowned upon but I use Afrin for a few days for severe nasal congestion. Sudafed if no HTN issues.
 

Load up on zinc and vitamin C. May be  placebo but can’t hurt

 

also 

 

 

I’ve been gorging on Vitamin C and Zicam since Thursday. Started Tamiflu last night. 
 

Probably have turned the corner but am taking it easy over the weekend (Can’t go anywhere anyway now that I’m under quarantine). 

Edited January 22, 2022 by DDD Dad

[Brisketexan 104628]

Damn that sucks. I had the flu first year med school. Flu season came early that year before the shots were out and there was no such thing as tamiflu. I guess it’s frowned upon but I use Afrin for a few days for severe nasal congestion. Sudafed if no HTN issues.
 
Load up on zinc and vitamin C. May be  placebo but can’t hurt
 
also 
 
 

Last time I had the flu was probably 12 years ago - and yep, got it early in the fall before the shots were out. Realized I was sick as I was exhausted driving to a client site for a sit down negotiation to resolve a big dispute. At the motel, had a fever, felt miserable. Drugged myself silly and made myself soldier through the negotiation the next morning. Yeah, while I was surely infectious. Dick move, but then, that was the expectation - only a pussy lets illness take him out of the game.

That flu sucked, and I was actually weaker and sicker because I forced myself to work and not rest.

By the way, today, I wouldn’t do that.

[jimmyjazz 45560]

A thought on natural immunity:  I think most people recognize that immunity wanes, whether acquired by disease or vaccine.  Down the road, someone who is vaxxed is highly likely to build their immunity back up by getting a booster shot.  How does someone who is unvaxxed but who acquired immunity via infection "boost" their immunity?  Well, they don't, intentionally, but they run the risk of catching covid again and suffering severe illness, or worse.

From a public health perspective, it seems like a higher risk, and that's not even accounting for the degree of immunity and the rate at which it fades.

[HenryJames 65890]

 

[Sawbonz 27437]

2 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

How does someone who is unvaxxed but who acquired immunity via infection "boost" their immunity?  Well, they don't,

Long term immunity comes from “immortal” immune system cells, memory B and T cells. Pretty amazing really. For things like measles and mumps, that protection seems to last a lifetime for the majority. Chickenpox/shingles decades but not lifetime. Flu hardly at all though this is more a function of the frequent mutations of the virus rather than an issue with the memory cells. It’s too early to say with sars-cov-2, but with the 4 other coronaviruses known to infect humans natural immunity is lasting. Not sure about sars-1 or the mers virus
 

Time will tell if boosters are clinically better than natural immunity at preventing reinfection, but I honestly don’t see the point in getting a booster based on alpha going forward. A yearly booster based on the current dominant strain makes the most sense

[jimmyjazz 45560]

3 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Long term immunity comes from “immortal” immune system cells, memory B and T cells. Pretty amazing really. For things like measles and mumps, that protection seems to last a lifetime for the majority. Chickenpox/shingles decades but not lifetime. Flu hardly at all though this is more a function of the frequent mutations of the virus rather than an issue with the memory cells. It’s too early to say with sars-cov-2, but with the 4 other coronaviruses known to infect humans natural immunity is lasting. Not sure about sars-1 or the mers virus
 

Time will tell if boosters are clinically better than natural immunity at preventing reinfection, but I honestly don’t see the point in getting a booster based on alpha going forward. A yearly booster based on the current dominant strain makes the most sense

Maybe I misunderstood the science -- I know I've seen plenty of claims about waning protection with both vaccine and acquired covid immunity.  Was that referring purely to antigen levels; i.e., it wasn't necessarily talking about true "immune response" (which those memory cells can confer by cranking out new antigens, my verbiage)?

[Brisketexan 104628]

 

Data like that is one reason I wish we also had good data on the previously infected (I know that some is coming out, I wish we had more, especially here in the US).

The data is stark that vaccination is literally a life-saver. But you and I know that to around 30% of the population, not only does data not help, it actually proves that there’s a conspiracy against the real truth.

[Brisketexan 104628]

Long term immunity comes from “immortal” immune system cells, memory B and T cells. Pretty amazing really. For things like measles and mumps, that protection seems to last a lifetime for the majority. Chickenpox/shingles decades but not lifetime. Flu hardly at all though this is more a function of the frequent mutations of the virus rather than an issue with the memory cells. It’s too early to say with sars-cov-2, but with the 4 other coronaviruses known to infect humans natural immunity is lasting. Not sure about sars-1 or the mers virus
 
Time will tell if boosters are clinically better than natural immunity at preventing reinfection, but I honestly don’t see the point in getting a booster based on alpha going forward. A yearly booster based on the current dominant strain makes the most sense

I’m not a doctor, but I read most of Sawbonz’s posts like this and nod my head in agreement.

That seems like a likely sound public health strategy for the long term. Why aren’t officials sending that sort of messaging as a dominant theme? Give people a vision for a path out of the pandemic, and a manageable strategy for the future. That would tamp down so much anxiety and pushback.

[Sawbonz 27437]

33 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Maybe I misunderstood the science -- I know I've seen plenty of claims about waning protection with both vaccine and acquired covid immunity.  Was that referring purely to antigen levels; i.e., it wasn't necessarily talking about true "immune response" (which those memory cells can confer by cranking out new antigens, my verbiage)?

I haven’t looked closely at this since med school so I may have some of it mixed up. Circulating antibodies are an immediate form of immunity. This is where vaccines have the biggest advantage in a virus naive individual (obviously). First line of defense is in place when the attack occurs. There are of course generalized surveillance mechanisms in place but not the same. The unvaxed virus naive individual’s immune system has to ID the novel pathogen and present it to the cells responsible for producing antibodies, and that lag can let the virus establish a beachhead. Also the generalized inflammatory response that is triggered can cause a lot of collateral damage. Like artillery called in without precise (or flat out wrong) coordinates. You get substances called cytokines that change the local environment to be toxic to the pathogen but also normal tissues. And while these substances are supposed to work locally they can spread to systemic 
 

B and T cell immunity is a rapid ramp up but not immediate. Memory B cells can quickly recognize their target antigens and begin producing antibodies to secrete or incorporate into their plasma membrane and work with other immune cells like killer T cells to destroy the virus particles. Memory T cells recognize an antigen and proliferate. They can destroy the virus particles as well.  Very precise and coordinated attack, with destruction occurring inside the immune cells, so less collateral damage.  This is a huge simplification obviously.
 

Vaccines and infection both use memory b and T cells for lasting immunity. With the new mRNA vaccines I think initially there was a question of to what degree they would  activate those cells but I think they are  finding that they do so effectively. 
 

there is a heme-onc doc around here who can probably do a much better job explaining 
 

edit hey @Heme Doc make sure I didn’t screw this up too badly

Edited January 22, 2022 by Sawbonz

[Sawbonz 27437]

49 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

 

These graphs clearly show that vaccinated people are getting infected. Why get the jab?

[fattyflattie 4636]

2 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

It’s stupid to talk about in the setting of a novel virus. I think going forward it will be. See my edit above. 

Likely because most Americans can’t take the truth on things. They’ll just spin it to whatever preconceived notions they have. I’d like to find out if I had it, to make sure I’m falling in line with the correct amount of time for a booster. I travel too much and workload too much to take a chance on getting this shit, mild or not. 

Edited January 22, 2022 by fattyflattie

[DDD Dad 14252]

2 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

I haven’t looked closely at this since med school so I may have some of it mixed up. Circulating antibodies are an immediate form of immunity. This is where vaccines have the biggest advantage in a virus naive individual (obviously). First line of defense is in place when the attack occurs. There are of course generalized surveillance mechanisms in place but not the same. The unvaxed virus naive individual’s immune system has to ID the novel pathogen and present it to the cells responsible for producing antibodies, and that lag can let the virus establish a beachhead. Also the generalized inflammatory response that is triggered can cause a lot of collateral damage. Like artillery called in without precise (or flat out wrong) coordinates. You get substances called cytokines that change the local environment to be toxic to the pathogen but also normal tissues. And while these substances are supposed to work locally they can spread to systemic 
 

B and T cell immunity is a rapid ramp up but not immediate. Memory B cells can quickly recognize their target antigens and begin producing antibodies to secrete or incorporate into their plasma membrane and work with other immune cells like killer T cells to destroy the virus particles. Memory T cells recognize an antigen and proliferate. They can destroy the virus particles as well.  Very precise and coordinated attack, with destruction occurring inside the immune cells, so less collateral damage.  This is a huge simplification obviously.
 

Vaccines and infection both use memory b and T cells for lasting immunity. With the new mRNA vaccines I think initially there was a question of to what degree they would  activate those cells but I think they are  finding that they do so effectively. 
 

there is a heme-onc doc around here who can probably do a much better job explaining 
 

edit hey @Heme Doc make sure I didn’t screw this up too badly

Liar! /Bravo

[Brisketexan 104628]

Liar! /Bravo

Only a fool would listen to a lying doctor like Sawbonz.

Real thinkers get their medics advice from straight-shooter medical experts like Joe Rogan and Tucker Carlson and Dan Bongino.

[TXSooner518 2432]

 

If you can look at this and think “vaxx does nothing to slow spread” you are just incredibly fucking stupid.

[Gatorubet 30117]

I haven’t looked closely at this since med school so I may have some of it mixed up.

Was it a librul medical school - or some place like Liberty Faith Healing University that tells the truth?

[ouflak 60]

21 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

Sure. My point is when you are virus naive you have no way of knowing if you are going to have a couple of sneezes or die drowning in your own body fluids with blood clots in your brain and heart. 

This is not strictly true. It has been scientifically and statistically demonstrated that there are direct correlations between age/certain pre-rexisting conditions and the chances of becoming ill in any way, or dying. So depending on your background, you can have some idea. And, depending on those background details, you can be something like 99.999% certain you won't have any symptoms at all (young with no pre-existing conditions).

[Sawbonz 27437]

5 hours ago, Bravo said:

So the US knows more than the rest of the world? It's all vax doesn't matter if previously infected. 

I’m not sure how you got that from my statement about Covid-19’s having been a novel virus, ie a virus that no human has been previously infected with. 2 years ago this was a novel virus. Even this time last year the majority of the US had not been exposed, and so it would be stupid, when a vaccine is available; and exposure had a good chance to result in a given individual ending up in the ICU or dead, to think prior infection would have a meaningful impact as part of your public health strategy. That is no longer the case. The omicron surge is peaking here if it hasn’t already. Given that and the numbers from the cdc I posted above we are approaching the point where a majority has protection either through infection; vaccination or both. 

[Sawbonz 27437]

44 minutes ago, ouflak said:

This is not strictly true. It has been scientifically and statistically demonstrated that there are direct correlations between age/certain pre-existing conditions and the chances of becoming ill in any way, or dying. So depending on your background, you can have some idea. And, depending on those background details, you can be something like 99.999% certain you won't have any symptoms at all (young with no pre-existing conditions).

It is strictly true when speaking of a novel virus. Your body has never seen it before and there is no way, on an individual basis, to know how one’s immune system will respond. It’s why the Spanish flu outbreak killed so many young otherwise healthy people.
 

With Covid-19, among the first deaths and severe illness were healthcare workers with no age Issues or comorbidities. EMT, ER and ICU staff were hit especially hard. Read up on it.

One of the surgeons I know contracted Covid in early March 2020. He was late 50’s at the time but a runner and healthy. Spent over a month intubated in the ICU and coded twice.
 

Even at this point I haven’t seen anything showing 99.999% of any demographic can expect to be asymptomatic. Even young, healthy, vaxed people can get really sick, and end up dead or with long term health issues.  An anesthesiologist I work with got it 2 weeks ago, was sick as shit for over a week and still has a raspy voice rattly productive cough and sinus congestion. Early 30’s and a workout fanatic. Vaxed not boosted though with omicron who knows if that would have helped. Maybe shortened duration.  
 

A PT I know who wasn’t vaxed is recovering and said it’s the sickest he’s ever been. literally said he didn’t think it would be that bad lol. People live in denial. This guy is also early 30s and a workout fanatic.
 

Those examples are anecdotal but look at the graphs of hospitalizations.  There are a lot of very sick people still; not all are old or have other risk factors. 

Edited January 23, 2022 by Sawbonz

[tchookem 3900]

I’m not sure how you got that from my statement about Covid-19’s having been a novel virus, ie a virus that no human has been previously infected with. 2 years ago this was a novel virus. Even this time last year the majority of the US had not been exposed, and so it would be stupid, when a vaccine is available; and exposure had a good chance to result in a given individual ending up in the ICU or dead, to think prior infection would have a meaningful impact as part of your public health strategy. That is no longer the case. The omicron surge is peaking here if it hasn’t already. Given that and the numbers from the cdc I posted above we are approaching the point where a majority has protection either through infection; vaccination or both. 

We're just going to be dying in higher numbers than the better vaccinated countries to get there.

[Sawbonz 27437]

5 minutes ago, tchookem said:

 

 

We're just going to be dying in higher numbers than the better vaccinated countries to get there.
 

 

Yeah but we still have to respect autonomy, and to a greater degree than those countries. But just about everyone here has had a chance to be vaccinated at this point. From a policy standpoint it’s time to accept that

[tchookem 3900]

Yeah but we still have to respect autonomy, and to a greater degree than those countries. But just about everyone here has had a chance to be vaccinated at this point. From a policy standpoint it’s time to accept that

Then we also need to accept that we're choosing the worst ways of dealing the virus moving forward (more deaths, more school closures, staffing issues, etc). The people that have shunned the most convenient policy are forcing into the most inconvenient policies. Oddly, those are the same people that whine the loudest about the smallest inconveniences.

[DaysOff 7853]

Spent most of Friday on a long NYC layover walking midtown Manhattan. Those three hour long lines waiting for a covid test we saw on the news 3 or 4 weeks ago; gone. I saw one pop up tent for testing with nobody in it. Looks like their surge is over.

[jimmyjazz 45560]

3 hours ago, ouflak said:

So depending on your background, you can have some idea. And, depending on those background details, you can be something like 99.999% certain you won't have any symptoms at all (young with no pre-existing conditions).

Wow.  My 7 YO grandson beat 100,000:1 odds?  I need to take him to Vegas, or at least buy a lottery ticket.

[JimmyJames 12271]

Anti vaxxer and all around shithead Aaron Rodgers lost at home in an upset last night to a team led by longhorn Kyle Shanahan.
 

This of course means that the world is finally starting to right itself. I take this as a very good sign. Looks like Covid will be over with soon. 

[Immaculate Vibes 114]

Read before negging. Well reasoned and written. 
 

 

[HenryJames 65890]

 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33843]

7 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

 

he always looked like a youth pastor trying to hang with the cool kids every time he took the court. I always somewhat expected his nuts to drop out of short-ass shorts, but TIL he has none

[tchookem 3900]

Anti vaxxer and all around shithead Aaron Rodgers lost at home in an upset last night to a team led by longhorn Kyle Shanahan.
 
This of course means that the world is finally starting to right itself. I take this as a very good sign. Looks like Covid will be over with soon. 

Hey cut A-A-Ron some slack. Everyone knows how he hates being needled.

EDIT: I won't take credit for this, the screenshot where I found it wouldn't post.

[Anastasis 23394]

1 hour ago, Sawbonz said:

Yeah but we still have to respect autonomy, and to a greater degree than those countries. But just about everyone here has had a chance to be vaccinated at this point. From a policy standpoint it’s time to accept that

Pesky biomedical ethics. 

[jimmyjazz 45560]

21 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Anti vaxxer and all around shithead Aaron Rodgers lost at home in an upset last night to a team led by longhorn Kyle Shanahan.

It's really too bad Kyle wasn't on the 2004 team that stole a Rose Bowl berth from A-A-Ron and Cal.