Biometric National ID

[bernorange 8348]

We had some discussion at the old board about a biometric national ID.  There is currently a proposal for one by Rep. Bob Goodlatte (HR 4760):

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/national-id-hr4760-biometrics/

The idea isn't new and DC critters have been working on it for some time:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-w-whitehead/the-national-biometric-id_b_542821.html

Looks like India has put the idea on steroids:

Quote

Seeking to build an identification system of unprecedented scope, India is scanning the fingerprints, eyes and faces of its 1.3 billion residents and connecting the data to everything from welfare benefits to mobile phones.

Civil libertarians are horrified, viewing the program, called Aadhaar, as Orwell’s Big Brother brought to life. To the government, it’s more like “big brother,” a term of endearment used by many Indians to address a stranger when asking for help.

For other countries, the technology could provide a model for how to track their residents. And for India’s top court, the ID system presents unique legal issues that will define what the constitutional right to privacy means in the digital age.

...

More:  https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/07/technology/india-id-aadhaar.html

 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

And the mark of the beast shall be 666

[softlynow 1783]

As soon as our corporate masters decide they want it, they’ll get it.

[Fudge Nuggets 19146]

Bob Goodlatte (R-VA)

Real shocker there.

[High Plains Drifter 10970]

2 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Bob Goodlatte (R-VA)

Real shocker there.

Party of small government, don't ya know.

[bernorange 8348]

HR 4760: https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/4760/cosponsors

[Doc Holliday 198]

Do you really NOT think this is already in play?

Apple, Google, Amazon, Samsung, DMVs, credit card companies, ISPs, telephone companies, grocery store rewards cards, DNA profilers like 23andMe, etc. all have these data points for tracking and unique identification.

The legal aspect, imo, is whether they can be consolidated into a single profile (permanent record) that ties everything you do across industries, life, etc. to allow more detailed tracking. 

Edited April 10, 2018 by Doc Holliday

[atomheartbevo 89409]

Feds/Republicans were already moving us there over a decade ago with the REAL ID Act which sets standards out for state IDs.

Edited April 10, 2018 by atomheartbevo

[FondrenRoad 4378]

2 minutes ago, Doc Holliday said:

Do you really NOT think this is already in play?

Apple, Google, Amazon, Samsung, DMVs, credit card companies, ISPs, telephone companies, grocery store rewards cards, DNA profilers like 23andMe, etc. all have these data points for tracking and unique identification.

The legal aspect, imo, is whether they can be consolidated into a single profile (permanent record) that ties everything you do across industries, life, etc. to allow more detailed tracking. 

Youre right. I dont think it needs to be mandated through govt.  Eventually, enough people will volunteer their way into a privately controlled system.  First cashless and then cardless transactions will become the norm.  At some point, it will become nearly impossible to participate in the normal economy without it.  Then it will have to be regulated rather than mandated. The real comparison is the credit system rather than the ID system. We have 3 private companies that open or close the door on our ability to own homes or obtain credit lines. 

[Doc Holliday 198]

6 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Feds/Republicans were already moving us there over a decade ago with the REAK ID Act which sets standards out for state IDs.

In my opinion, the real kick off was how IBM got started and if you don't know, go look their history up.

[Doc Holliday 198]

11 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Youre right. I dont think it needs to be mandated through govt.  Eventually, enough people will volunteer their way into a privately controlled system.  First cashless and then cardless transactions will become the norm.  At some point, it will become nearly impossible to participate in the normal economy without it.  Then it will have to be regulated rather than mandated. The real comparison is the credit system rather than the ID system. We have 3 private companies that open or close the door on our ability to own homes or obtain credit lines. 

It's the truth, take away options through the guise of volunteering, and the digital evolution we have been in for a while will directly force this direction until something catastrophically disrupts the ability to be digital.   Will that happen? who knows.  It is part of the thoughts I have when thinking about zombie apocalypse, world war 3, etc.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

14 minutes ago, Doc Holliday said:

It's the truth, take away options through the guise of volunteering, and the digital evolution we have been in for a while will directly force this direction until something catastrophically disrupts the ability to be digital.   Will that happen? who knows.  It is part of the thoughts I have when thinking about zombie apocalypse, world war 3, etc.

Im no bernorange when it comes to privacy, but its shocking how quickly people gave up fingerprints, retina scans, and facial recognition just so they can unlock their phone faster. 

[Bat Guano 359]

The issue that pushes this over the top will be immigration. How else are you going to prove you're a citizen if we don't have a national ID database? Biometrics is the best technology available, and we don't want those illegals gaming the system. It's going to happen.

[Doc Holliday 198]

 

12 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Im no bernorange when it comes to privacy, but its shocking how quickly people gave up fingerprints, retina scans, and facial recognition just so they can unlock their phone faster. 

quickly meaning, over 20 years? over 30? when did the DMV start requiring finger printing?  Computer access has been using biometric scanners (some competently others not so much) for a while now. 

7 minutes ago, Bat Guano said:

The issue that pushes this over the top will be immigration. How else are you going to prove you're a citizen if we don't have a national ID database? Biometrics is the best technology available, and we don't want those illegals gaming the system. It's going to happen.

On the surface I understand that point.   That said, it all requires digital receipt, storage, control, and access.   If it is digital it can and will be hacked, spoofed, etc.  it won't stop immigrants or individuals with the means, nation-states, etc.  For a movie based analogy - look at Babylon AD

 

 

Edited April 10, 2018 by Doc Holliday
yagsiop

[Bat Guano 359]

4 minutes ago, Doc Holliday said:

 

On the surface I understand that point.   That said, it all requires digital receipt, storage, control, and access.   If it is digital it can and will be hacked, spoofed, etc.  it won't stop immigrants or individuals with the means, nation-states, etc.  For a movie based analogy - look at Babylon AD

 

 

The ones with means are not the problem; they can always find a way in, legally. All it will require to sell a national ID program to the rubes, though, is the promise of keeping out the darker and poorer illegals, whether that promise is kept or even intended to be kept or not.

[Doc Holliday 198]

6 minutes ago, Bat Guano said:

The ones with means are not the problem; they can always find a way in, legally. All it will require to sell a national ID program to the rubes, though, is the promise of keeping out the darker and poorer illegals, whether that promise is kept or even intended to be kept or not.

The ones with means who can get in legally are never the issue.    It is the ones with means who are focused on ill-intent (staying away from the racist comments ) that will sneak through the system.

 

And yes, it will be the means to sell the system.  It could be Chief toupee's pivot away from the physical border wall?

[bernorange 8348]

40 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Im no bernorange when it comes to privacy, ...

[staboner 4957]

3 hours ago, softlynow said:

As soon as our corporate masters decide they want it, they’ll get it.

motion to rename 'politics' board this ^

[zork 629]

As mentioned DC, Data Centers, have been using biometric security for a long time.  Hand Scanners, Thumb/finger Scanners, Optical Scanners, and then combining it with badges and the other items that make up the tiered security(signing in after going through a double security door or multiples at a place like Equinix) is just commonplace part of your job as a DC person.  That is mostly private but to host Government stuff you have to agree to X tier level of security depending on the organization.

I don't know if Equinix, for example, shares the biometric data with anyone?

[HOOK'EMHOOAH 1606]

Having worked in biometrics, I can offer a unique perspective that probably no one else here can.

First, there is already biometrics in use at international terminals that is used to bypass customs for those who have nothing to declare and are csrrying less than $10k. Anyone can still be flagged and searched even if they use this system, but it bypasses the long ass lines to get to the customs officer who stamps passports on the way into the country and receives the declaration forms. For purchases made when not in a store, a person could use another type of 2FA through a smart phone.

Second, the use of biometric data, if it should ever be proliferated to this extent, to secure financial data would basically kill identity theft. No two finger prints, irises, tongues, or footprints (on the skin, like a baby's footprint) are the same, so if fingerprints were added to the chip on your credit or debit card and you had to scan a couple of them when you purchase something in a store, it becomes another form of 2 factor authentication.

Third, biometrics and voting would be a very big winner because every citizen would be able to verify every vote they made for their entire voting history. This does two things in itself first it allows each citizen to flag errors which might indicate tampering, second it ensures everyone who is elligible to vote does so and does so only once.

Finally, biometrics does not have anything to do with implanting anything into anyone. Nor does it seek to use anything except a persons own biological measurements - hence bio and metrics - to ensure the accurate identification of the individual.

[ChickenSandwich 9798]

Seems to make too much sense. A biometric ID would solve the e-verify I9 issues for employers as well

[bad_teammate 13132]

I've got a better idea:
Dissolve borders and end nations

[ChickenSandwich 9798]

Better idea. Let the voters opt out of these criminal illegal immigration policies and those of your ilk can opt in and contribute by doubling your personal taxes. You love to spend others money. 

Edited April 27, 2018 by ChickenSandwich

[Brisketexan 104561]

2 hours ago, HOOK'EMHOOAH said:

No two finger prints, irises, tongues, or footprints (on the skin, like a baby's footprint) are the same,

Got it.  All biometric info is unique.

So, for us dudes....better get used to the idea of having your mushroom stamp recorded.  Sure, it's gonna make withdrawing money at the ATM awkward, but them's the breaks.

[deadshank 24651]

6 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

I've got a better idea:
Dissolve borders and end nations

Does this mean you’re moving?

[Turkleton 145]

7 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

I've got a better idea:
Dissolve borders and end nations

Spoken like a true lefty. Nothing more scary.

[Degenerate Gardner 4081]

I'm just thankful that the Trump Brand Biometric ID is still in product development with its Chinese manufacturers and Russian software deveopers.  When that hits the market, 30% of the country will be lining up for the privilege of paying out the nose for it.

Edited April 28, 2018 by Degenerate Gardner

[David Dennison 18652]

15 hours ago, Turkleton said:

Spoken like a true lefty. Nothing more scary.

What's scary about it?

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

On 4/10/2018 at 9:51 AM, FondrenRoad said:

Im no bernorange when it comes to privacy, but its shocking how quickly people gave up fingerprints, retina scans, and facial recognition just so they can unlock their phone faster. 

It also works as a pretty good gps tracker.

[David Dennison 18652]

On 4/10/2018 at 9:51 AM, FondrenRoad said:

Im no bernorange when it comes to privacy, but its shocking how quickly people gave up fingerprints, retina scans, and facial recognition just so they can unlock their phone faster. 

What's really shocking is that every single lawyer in the United States has their fingerprints on file with the FBI. It's funny because the FBI gets them before they start law school and learn just how dumb it is to willingly give up the goods.

The FBI is smart.